Naitonalized Healthcare...

Random Ramblings
161

Hooch,

I agree with you 100% that the government is largely to blame for the health care mess. Why? In my opinion, they want to control it and breaking it is the path to being able to take it over. As with most other things, if the government would get completely out of it, healthcare and insurance would be much more efficient.

I support health care for everyone as I am pro life. Not just pro life for babies but for adults as well.

Pro-life has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. If people have a right to free health care, do they also have a right to free housing (most people need housing to survive)? Free food (everyone needs food to survive)? Free transportation (how will they get to work without transportation)? Free phone (how will they call 911 if they don’t have a phone)?

Lets say that they lost their job and need food. Ok, 2 months, not for life. At the end of the two months you loose your food and either you get off your a** and get a job or you die.

This contradicts your position on healthcare. If someone is too lazy to work, you’re going to give them healthcare but not food? How does that make sense?

Again, I’m not against helping people short term either. But I’m not for socialism - taking from one group and giving it to the lazy - whether it’s food, housing, healthcare, or anything else!

Mike

162

Pro-life has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. If people have a right to free health care, do they also have a right to free housing (most people need housing to survive)? Free food (everyone needs food to survive)? Free transportation (how will they get to work without transportation)? Free phone (how will they call 911 if they don’t have a phone)?

I am not saying that people should not be forced to stand on their own two feet and work full time or more. I also didn’t say free for the health care. And I never said anything over major medical. You don’t need a house to survive. Food for a limited period of time, job or die. Trust me, they won’t take the or death part of the equation, they will get off their aes and work. I don’t care about 911 and a phone, they can ask their neighbor, I don’t care how they get to work, it could be on their bike or the bus. But if someone is honestly working their a off and some major health issue arises like getting hit by a car, they should not have to have financial ruin for the rest of their lives due to this.

I am all for FORCING people to hold their share.

[b]Quote
Lets say that they lost their job and need food. Ok, 2 months, not for life. At the end of the two months you loose your food and either you get off your a** and get a job or you die.

This contradicts your position on healthcare. If someone is too lazy to work, you’re going to give them healthcare but not food? How does that make sense?[/b]

Cutting off their free food after a reasonable amount of time will not result in death. It will result in them being forced to pull their life together.

Again, I’m not against helping people short term either. But I’m not for socialism - taking from one group and giving it to the lazy - whether it’s food, housing, healthcare, or anything else!

I am the exact opposite of socialism as I am a libertarian without the anti war garbage. All I am saying is that the radio conservatives are feeding us a line of crap about the fact that the health care system is not broken. AND there are free market ways to fix it. I am not supporting any kind of handout for the lazy. Primarily that the government needs to step in, break up the monopolies and corruption and allow the free market system to work. Until now they have refused to do so because their pockets are getting lined every year.

163
164

Ubbens,

You’re correct, I worded that sentence badly. Obviously, you know what I meant, but let me correct it:

Russia, Canada, Japan and the countries of Europe are all second class countries compared to the United States. There - fixed!

Mike

165
166
You're definitely one funny guy, never admit to your mistakes.

Never admit your mistakes - that’s out of the liberal playbook. Conservatives believe in telling the truth and when I’m wrong - I say so.

Mike

167

OK, from those who want nationalized healthcare, so far we’ve got…

  1. Cost
  2. Financial ruin
  3. Quickly diminishing coverages by insurance companies
  4. Monopoly by the AMA
  5. It is broken due to non-regulation (don’t know if I agree with this)
  6. Collusion of insurance companies

Anything else?

168

It is broken due to non-regulation (don’t know if I agree with this)

Allowing a monopoly is non-regulation. The government should have been enforcing the laws we already have on the books. Allowing collusion is non-regulation. I am not saying non-regulation requires creating more laws. I am saying a lack of regulation in result of not enforcing what exists.

Non Profit scams within the health care industry is an example of potential new regulation. Aren’t all businesses non profit? What business out there likes to show a taxable profit at the end of the year? The federal government has allowed this non profit scam to flourish. There was a point in time where non profit companies operated on very little and their primary function was to help people in various ways.

Take the health care chain Carillion for example. Carillion is a non profit chain of hospitals that has been caught across the board charging patients more than a private hospital does. So how do you get rid of all of that money? You build wings, more hospitals, pay astronomical salaries. The head honcho of this non profit brings in 2.5 million dollars a year for a salary. This is a “non-profit”

Consumer reports compared the rising costs of health care and what it was most attributable. Each and every industry has drastically increased their costs to the consumer. The pharmasutical and health care insurance industries on the line graph showed a steep incline but it was nothing in comparrison to the rising charges from the hospitals and private practice doctors. That’s interesting considering the liberal focus is on “Evil” pharm and insurance.

169

Anyone else who wants nationalized healthcare want to add to the list of negatives in the current system that you would like to see addressed…

Currently we have…

  1. Cost
  2. Financial ruin
  3. Quickly diminishing coverages by insurance companies
  4. Monopoly by the AMA
  5. It is broken due to non-regulation (don’t know if I agree with this)
  6. Collusion of insurance companies

Anything else?..

170

Funds between 12 and 20 million illegal aliens, the exact number is unknown.

171

So if national healthcare is so bad then why is it available in other countries with success?

Not pro or con… just not educated enough to decide.

172

Stanfield,

First off… welcome…

“So if national healthcare is so bad then why is it available in other countries with success?”

If you look at the most often cited examples of nationalized heatlhcare… Britain and Canada, they are BOTH moving back towards the private sector to help fulfill their obligations as these government run systems are FAILING the population… people are literally DYING waiting on government run healthcare, BECAUSE the decisions regarding catasrophic AND standard coverage are based on government decisions of who gets it and who doesn’t…

Rationed care, long waits, GOVERNMENT deciding WHO gets treated, DECREASED services… these are only a FEW of the negative consequences… The only positive there seems to be is everyone being covered… There are just BETTER ways to accomplish this goal than nationalized healthcare…

But those after nationalized healthcare want the other 85% to pay for the 15% who don’t have an actual healthcare plan but CANNOT be denied care at a hospital…

173

I have a friend who needs a diagnostic medical procedure. Her doctor has highly recommended it. She has insurance. The insurance doesn’t cover the $2,000 co-pay. She is not getting the procedure. She is hoping the condition isn’t cancer after all. She doesn’t have the money.

We need health insurance, whether it is nationalized or not, that does away with these kind of insurance decisions.

Furnishedowner

174

There are definitely free market solutions to the problem. It is unfortunate that they are not being explored thoroughly because that leaves only the government controlled option. Just recently the republicans in office decided that the dems will win it whether or not they want it so they have decided to offer up a plan which I haven’t looked at yet.

But those after nationalized healthcare want the other 85% to pay for the 15% who don’t have an actual healthcare plan but CANNOT be denied care at a hospital…

You are already paying for these people right now anyways via increased premiums because they can not pay their medical bills.

The solution requires breaking up corruption and enforcing the laws we have pertaining to monopolies. Allowing the drastic increase of doctors. Cutting off all illegals from care. Preventing FICO from unpaid medical bills from even showing up on the score or TransUnion, Equifax and Experian credit reports. Allowing small business to pool together for good insurance rates just as the government and large corporations get (something presently illegal only due to insurance companies lining politicians pockets), etc. Not allowing people to go to the hospital because they have a fever or something that is non life threatening just because they don’t have $50 for the doctor. Possibly tax incentives for low cost clinics that will see these broke people at a discounted rate rather than them going to the hospital and getting a $3,000 bill for some antibiotics and a boatload of unnecessary tests.

175

Hooch,
I liked a lot of your comments. But you can not cut off illegals from care. This means that YOU will also not be treated when you show up with crushing chest pain, if you don’t have your passport or ID on you.

This will make border police out of every medical worker. It is untenable.

Furnishedowner

176

You’ve got a point on the medical workers becoming boarder police. I am oppositional defiant in the first place and don’t like to be controlled by anyone. And the last thing I would want is someone trying to play some sort of games if I don’t have my ID on me. There’s got to be some way around this though. I guess it would be to just enforce our laws and kick them out of the country in the first place with a solid boarder that they can not get past. And only allow guest workers emergency medical attention if they are facing a life and death situation. Send them packing to a clinic that they will pay for otherwise.

Automatic motion detecting machine guns on the fence. Would that keep em off the tax payers tit? :angel

177

The last time I went to the hospital or dr. I had to show my license anyway along with my insurance card,if they were as concerned about how you were paying as if you’re even legal, there would be no prob.Don’t deny them care,just automatically contact border patrol before they’re discharged.Since when does the term illegal become such an overlooked status??

178

“But you can not cut off illegals from care.”

No one is talking about cutting off illegals from care… just asking them to pay for the care THEY receive… They don’t pay ANY taxes…

“This means that YOU will also not be treated when you show up with crushing chest pain, if you don’t have your passport or ID on you.”

This is a fallacy… If you show up with an emergency situation, you will be treated FIRST… could you just imagine the lawsuits otherwise… if, however, you show up with something that is non-emergent, why should they not ask you for your info while you are waiting to be seen?

“I have a friend who needs a diagnostic medical procedure. Her doctor has highly recommended it. She has insurance. The insurance doesn’t cover the $2,000 co-pay. She is not getting the procedure. She is hoping the condition isn’t cancer after all. She doesn’t have the money.”

Another “friend”… well great news Furnishedowner, have your friend contact ME via email… I know of a way she can finance this at a low rate, but even if she couldn’t, Let her have the medical procedure, as BY LAW, the hospital has to take what you can afford monthly, so there is NO REASON for her NOT to have the procedure…


“You are already paying for these people right now anyways via increased premiums because they can not pay their medical bills.”

If that is the case (which it is obviously not) we don’t NEED to cover them through government healthcare, it is ALREADY being done…

179

Don’t deny them care,just automatically contact border patrol before they’re discharged.

Sellnbama, this is both good and ethical. A nice idea!

No one is talking about cutting off illegals from care… just asking them to pay for the care THEY receive… They don’t pay ANY taxes…

The Fair Tax would fix that REAL QUICK.

[b]“I have a friend who needs a diagnostic medical procedure. Her doctor has highly recommended it. She has insurance. The insurance doesn’t cover the $2,000 co-pay. She is not getting the procedure. She is hoping the condition isn’t cancer after all. She doesn’t have the money.”

Another “friend”… well great news Furnishedowner, have your friend contact ME via email… I know of a way she can finance this at a low rate, but even if she couldn’t, Let her have the medical procedure, as BY LAW, the hospital has to take what you can afford monthly, so there is NO REASON for her NOT to have the procedure…[/b]

My tenants can not afford ANY additional monthly payment. They can barely afford my rent.

[b]“You are already paying for these people right now anyways via increased premiums because they can not pay their medical bills.”

If that is the case (which it is obviously not) we don’t NEED to cover them through government healthcare, it is ALREADY being done…[/b]

You are correct, it is ALREADY being done. Just through the free market system. You know as well as any conservative that business expenses, taxes, losses, etc all get passed on to the consumer in higher costs for the goods or service. When the government raises my taxes on any of my businesses I have to pass it on to the consumer. I can tighten up, lay off some and make others work harder, try to cut expenses only so far before I am forced to raise the cost to the end user.

I should have said increased costs of care rather than increased insurance premiums. My bad. :smile

180

“My tenants can not afford ANY additional monthly payment. They can barely afford my rent”

I have dealt with many low income families over the years, and without exception, I was able to to show them how they could free up money by making simple changes, that could net them at least $1000/year if they committed to it… Of course, they had to actually MAKE the changes…

Do you realize a simple change as MAKING a cup of coffee in the morning vs. buying it at 7-11 or such can put a minimum of $25 in your pocket? Or buying a $1 water bottle and buying a 2-liter bottle of soda, instead of $1.25/day or $30/month… this is just one change in the way things are done that can NET you money… Same goes for bottled water…

One change in their spending, and they never have to worry about overdraft fees again (with Debit cards, the average person loses HUNDREDS of dollars per year in overdraft fees)…

There are MANY more ways to reduce your personal costs to be able to save more… no matter what income level you are at… most people are just too discouraged to try… but if you frame it in a way that shows the benefit, they are much more receptive… IF they follow-through, they ABSOLUTELY can save at least a $100/month…