Naitonalized Healthcare...

We can see here what the agenda is for the Dem’s regarding national healtcare…

My challenge is, what government social program do you know of that costs less than what the private sector can offer it for, and what makes you think that the government, of all entities, can not only do it cheaper, but better? What do you logically base this on?..

I got a few…

How about ANY State COLLEGE…Great education at about a THIRD to a quarter of the price of a Private college. All backed by the tax payers on a NOT FOR PROFIT system. Those State Colleges have given a LOT of people in this country GREAT educations at a FRACTION of the cost of a private college.

Or how about Federal Flood Insurance.
Cheaper…Better Insurance…and a 100% Goverment run program.

Also…We ALREADY have National Health Care…

We…meaning you and me… Pay for ALL the people out there that DO NOT have health insurance. That’s just one of the reasons Blue Cross monthly payments are about $1800/month for a family plan.

I’m a link in our current health care system. People who DO NOT have health insurance call their local Fire Departments when they need to see a Doctor. They usually have a bag packed when we arrive at their homes. They walk to the ambulance, tell us whats bothering them, then they get taken right to the ER for their Doctor visit. We CAN NOT refuse them.
Of coarse they don’t pay for ANY of it…WE DO…YOU, ME, EVERYONE here that has Health Insurance PAYS for those people with none.

So my question to you is…

Screwing it up isn’t even an option at this point. It’s already screwed up.

When you have 9 month pregnant Mexican women literally SWIMMING the Rio Grande inorder to get to a U.S. hospital to give birth FOR FREE…That’s not a “SYSTEM”
You paid for that birth…I paid for it…Your arguement is simply a matter of WHERE THE CHECK GETS SENT.

My local Blue Cross office gave their CEO a FREE…Let me repeat this…F R E E…$600,000 loan… NEVER TO BE REPAID, so he could build his house…But he NEEDED that money because he only made $1.2 million a year!!! That’s “the market” at work for you…All those people who broke their b@lls to send in their monthly payment to Bluecross gave this piece of sh*t CEO a FREE MORTGAGE LOAN on top of his 7 figure salary… Yea…I can’t see how you could make that system any cheaper or better.

If this system is “WORKING” I’ll take what ever broke down plan the next guy has…PLEASE.

Public vs. Private college… More students per class in public vs. private college… higher admission standards, better academia, really NOT an adequate comparison… this would actually be a great debate, but let’s not muddy the waters; let’s focus on healthcare…

No, we DO NOT already have national healthcare… we currently have SUBSIDIZED healthcare for those who do not pay into the private system, and use the services without paying, which is BS. We see what a great result that is. You somehow think that those who abuse the system now, will not continue to abuse it? Just like the current mortgage situation. People who pay, followed the rules… get screwed. It is because of this, that the large pool of the insured (i.e. - the middle class) pay more for health insurance.

Naitonal healthcare is that supplied by the state, and WITHOUT EXCEPTION, just like with Social Security, Medicare, VA, etc. in our own country, nations that have gone down this path, the level of services decreases as costs increase, leading to even more problems, and people literally dying while waiting for services… NOT because of dispute of coverage, but because they are waiting…

The only difference is that with a state-run governmental system, you no longer have a CHOICE in your care options or coverage! And any increase will be automatically deducted from the paycheck.

We already have the real-life examples of how government-run healthcare actually works in practice… Medicare, Medicaid, VA, etc… and if you’ve had any experience with them, you know that they suck! Never mind that they are over-run with fraud, neglect and abuse… now imagine it on a national scale… and you somehow think this is going to save money, provide better coverage, etc…

[b][/b]Please tell us… what do you base this on?..

Why do we not REQUIRE them to PROVE they can do this with the existing programs BEFORE we hand over our healthcare system to these same people to do on a national scale? Why are they not held accountable to perform?

What you also fail to realize is that this will not be instituted under some sort of “lock-box” to ensure that the money collected goes to what is expended for healthcare… it will be just like ALL the other government run programs… into the operating budget, and just like Social Security… another PONZI scheme in the works, but one that affects 1/7th of the entire economy…

Besides, although I disagree with the premise, if we “already have national healthcare” why do we then need it?..

How about the health care provided to our MILITARY??? That’s COMPLETELY Goverment provided. Do you know that EXACT same system covers every U.S. Congressman and their FAMILIES??? It is actually an OUTSTANDING system. Dental, Medical, and Surgical ALL provided. It’s been working for a LONG LONG TIME!!! All a Goverment system. This arguement has been made forever. “A national health care system would be terrible.” To WHO??? If it’s good enough for a Congressman, the President, and a few thousand Generals and Admirals…I’d be MORE than willing to give it a try!!!

What we have now doesn’t work… I see it everyday…So where’s the real answer???

By the way…The health care at the VA is actually FAR BETTER than most people realize. I can assure you…Veterans are MUCH better off than people on medicaid/medicare. And unless you have an OUTSTANDING benefit package you WILL be on Medicare/medicaid.

I just wanted to say I’m VERY happy with the health care my family and I receive from the govt (tricare) system. I hear compaints from people who claim the military Drs. don’t know what they’re doing. I’ve never had a bad experience with them and there are other options too. I get treated at the base. My wife gets seen there too, but could go out in town if necessary. Our kids have a regular Doc out in town. Sometimes there are some billing issues where we’re told to pay a certain amount for treatment. All I have to do is take the bill to the Tricare office and they take care of it. I don’t have to worry about it from then on. Last year our son was hospitalized for a week. The bill was over $25k. We paid nothing. There’s a little red tape to the system, but overall it’s good. It’s one of some great benefits in the military.

The VA system itself is an example of how you are going to WAIT for government care. Staff shortages, very long care appeals process, etc. are just some of it’s shortcomings. Care can be excellent at the premier locations, and it also depends on the care you’re getting or if you are a woman, but just like the public schools, if it’s been around awhile, they DO NOT update or fund it correctly, and you are stuck. Average wait times to be seen is 30-45 days, and there are hundreds of thousands of vets who routinely wait 6 months or more. In the private sector, if you don’t want to wait for an appointment, you have a CHOICE to go somewhere else…

The other thing to remember is that it is more difficult to sue the VA under federal law than an independent hospital or insurer, and that is likely not to change, and more likely to become harder if the government takes over… as is the case with all socialized medicine…

“So where’s the real answer???” - While I don’t pretend to have all the answers, the answer is NOT to give control of it over to the government. It removes competition, it’s proven to increases cost, reduce services and make it harder to receive care. That, is NOT a solution…

Maybe, since they currently get alot of care for free, we put those who can’t afford it into Medicaid, but take out of their checks a certain percentage, on a sliding income scale, to at least recover some of the costs. Or, if they have a refund, even though the bottom 40% don’t pay taxes, they should have to give up some of the refund they really weren’t due in the first place. EVERYONE should be required to pay for their healthcare. It’s a fact, if it is free, it is abused. Those receiving subsidized care should be required to have their annual exams, etc. if they want to participate in the program, since it would save us long-term on catastrophic care.

Although I am against it, I would be more willing to put the illusionary 40 million into Medicaid vs. nationalizing healthcare.

What we are talking about here is catastrophic care… the care that could wipe someone out without insurance. People should HAVE to pay for some of their healthcare. It is a service that THEY are using. What happened when they revamped the welfare system? All of the sudden, when people were required to work as a condition of receiving benefits, they went out and got a job…

“Veterans are MUCH better off than people on medicaid/medicare” - Actually, care-wise, Medicaid recipients, as you pointed out, get a free ride to the hospital, get free emergency care the same day, and get to be rude to the hospital staff (80% of the time) if they are kept waiting while using their IPOD’s, IPhone’s, laptop computers, gold necklaces, kids with their own cell phones, etc… Contrast this with Veterans, who actually PAID a price to receive their benefits, WAITING for care…

I think we could make the current system better over time without handing it over to a bureaucracy… I don’t have a problem with the country picking up the tab for vets who have earned their health insurance benefits through service.

I think that we should also require that insurance companies pay for the care they contracted for…

I also find it ironic that that the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program website URL is (OPM - Other Peoples Money) :biggrin

You’d think it would be

We routinely transport veterans to the VA EXACTLY like we transport people with no health coverage. THEY CALL…WE HAUL…The difference???

Veterans don’t wait 7 HOURS to be seen by an ER Doctor. There’s a QUARTER of the people in a VA waiting room because they only accept Veterans.

As for increased costs???

Your thinking on this is completely backwards.

Ask yourself HOW…United Health made HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars last year???
There’s so much PROFIT BUILT into our current system it’s OUTRAGOUS. And that profit goes DIRECTLY to the Insurance companies who DONATE MILLIONS to republicans every year. That money isn;t going to Doctors…It’s going to guy’s like this…

United Healths Bill (Dollar Bill) McGuire. No…There’s NO FAT in here…

If the PROFIT MOTIVE was taken out you wouldn’t have ANY of the following.

Patients DIEING because a Health Insurance company DENIES a claim. (Hey…it’s MUCH more PROFITABLE to simply let that person DIE than it is to treat them) This happens THOUSANDS OF TIMES A DAY in this country.

Your other arguement about it being harder to SUE???

Are you kidding me??? So your in FAVOR of it being EASY to sue??

Health care should NOT be a FOR profit business. Canada has excellent health care. All goverment funded. I don’t see Canadians waiting in OUR emergency rooms for care…But I DO KNOW people in the U.S. that ROUTINELY travel to Canada to get their presciptions filled at a 1/4 of the price we pay!!

This is a CLASSIC Republican scare tactic. TAKE the health care coverage provide to YOU by the Goverment (as a congressman) BUT…that same coverage isn’t a good idea for the rest of Americans.

But as usual, the Republican party line is LET THE MARKETS SET THE PRICES!! No wonder politicians are jumping off this TURD of a party like rats leaving a sinking ship. And Spector won’t be the last…It’s a Pendulum…DUBYA swung it so hard it’s wrapping around the NECKS of the party and it’s DIEING!


Health care
Sub-prime mortgages
Hedge funds
and on and on…

Somethings are NOT luxuries…Health care in the richest country that has ever existed on this PLANET should not be a LUXURY ITEM. But to a LOT of people in this country that is EXACTLY what it is. The cost is so out of reach it is equal to a monthly lease payment on a Rolls Royce.

Somethings are NOT luxuries.....Health care in the richest country that has ever existed on this PLANET should not be a LUXURY ITEM. But to a LOT of people in this country that is EXACTLY what it is. The cost is so out of reach it is equal to a monthly lease payment on a Rolls Royce.

This is where the left goes wrong. People do NOT have a right to healthcare. People do NOT have a right to housing. People do NOT have a right to food. Americans have a right to life, liberty, and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. They do NOT have the right to be a lazy deadbeat and still eat, have housing, and have healthcare at my expense.

This will all take care of itself after the coming collapse. This country is beyond broke and the ever shrinking pool of productive people in this country are finally going to say ENOUGH! You can only take so much from people before they revolt!



Oh really Mike???

How about the lazy piece of sh*t that worked his entire life but when he hit 56 years old his company replaced him with a college kid making half what he was paid. He can’t get medicare because he’s not old enough and at his age, just when he needs it the most, health care coverage is ASTRONOMICAL.

I see this stuff EVERYDAY… Good honest, hard working, never took a thing for free in their life people, who are scared to death to get sick.

The single biggest cause of bankruptcy in this country is simply GETTING SICK and NOT having health insurance.

They’re not ALL lazy losers.

Your collapse scenerio is getting old Mike…Face it…It ain’t happening.
What IS happening is the very beginning of a GLOBAL BOOM. Countries with populations that DWARF ours are starting to become CONSUMERS. China 20 years ago was populated by SUBSISTANCE FARMERS…They didn’t buy a whole lot of COMPUTERS, CARS, Washers, dryers, and Apartments. THEY ARE NOW!!! And they LOVE American CARS!!!
India is entering the same phase and their population will exceed Chinas in about 10 to 15 years. These are educated people who want CELL PHONES, Cars, appliances. TECHNOLOGY!!!

Sorry but there is just TOO MUCH OPPORTUNITY OUT THERE!!!
People that NEVER HAD MONEY…ANY MONEY…are entering the market place and they WANT THINGS…It’s the United States in the late 1800’s. INDUSTRY will create CONSUMERS. The U.S. sells technology, STILL has the biggest Capital markets on the planet.

NEVER…EVER…EVER sell this country short…Everyone who has ever done that…HAS LOST…They lost because there is NO PLACE on this PLANET that attracts the IDEAS that this country does.

Propertymanager Mike, You need to get away from your low-income tenants once in a while. Most of the US is NOT a stinking cesspool of welfare leeches, just hard-working folks.

Positive Outlook, Nationalized health care is coming, because it has to. The system is broken when you have babies being treated in ER for a cough and fever because the parents can not afford a regular pediatrician’s office visit. This happens thousands of times daily.

Let’s work for a system that lets you opt out and go to the Mayo Clinic or where ever, private pay. The death rate will drop and longevity increase. It will be the most good for the most people. No, it won’t be perfect.

Affluent people screamed and cried at the idea of Social Security. “Let their families take care of them! Why should government pay?” But the poor who were eating garbage then got the dignity of a check from wages they had earned.

I will vote for any party or politician that can get Americans healthcare equivalent to the rest of the First World.


FDJake, I find it hillarious that you have no problem going after your fortune, but are quick to criticize others for making money or profiting… Next thing you know, being that doctors are part of the healthcare industry, you be’ll bashing them for “makling a profit”… until you open your wallet, don’t take tax deductions your entitled to so the government can have more money, and give the amount you want others to give, it stale to hear you rail against others wanting to “make a profit”… Why should you make money on stocks?

In finding for the plaintiffs, Canada’s high court said, “The evidence in this case shows that delays in the public healthcare system are widespread, and that, in some serious cases, patients die as a result of waiting lists for public healthcare. The evidence also demonstrates that the prohibition against private health insurance and its consequence of denying people vital healthcare result in physical and psychological suffering that meets a threshold test of seriousness.” Writing for the majority, Justice Marie Deschamps said, “Many patients on non-urgent waiting lists are in pain and cannot fully enjoy any real quality of life. The right to life and to personal inviolability is therefore affected by the waiting times.”

So please stop trying to sell the lie that Canada’s system is better… That’s from their own High Court.

While not a Republican, you’ll note it was Rep’s in 2006 who voted to ease restrictions on importing drugs from Canada. Product liability policies and costs FROM THE GOVERNMENT also lead to higher drug costs here in America for prescription drugs. Generic drugs actually cost MORE in Canada. It is the opposite here… you can get a vast number of generic prescriptions for $4 at Walmart. Yes indeed, the market at work… didn’t need the government for that either, imagine that…

“THEY CALL…WE HAUL…The difference???” - The difference is that one EARNED and was promised the benefit as part of their service, the other DIDN’T.

If you are appalled at 7 hour waits at ER (even though they don’t pay a dime, should they have to sacrifice nothing?), just wait…

“Are you kidding me??? So your in FAVOR of it being EASY to sue??” - No, my point is if an insurance company is not providing what they were contracted for, they SHOULD be sued. If it is under a federal system, it is not only harder to sue, it also with a judge, not a jury.

“Health care
Sub-prime mortgages
Hedge funds

You conveniently left out the role of the GOVERNMENT in each and every one of those circumstances which were negatively affected by their participation… I would argue that it was BECAUSE of government involvement, the problems were made much worse… You’ll note the great job the seven (7) GOVERNMENT Agencies, and additional congressional Committee’s and Sub-committee’s did in the job we were paying to do for oversight in each of those situations.

“LET THE MARKETS SET THE PRICES” - as opposed to the government setting the prices??? No chance for corruption there… :rolleyes

“But I DO KNOW people in the U.S. that ROUTINELY travel to Canada to get their presciptions filled at a 1/4 of the price we pay” - Go to Walmart, it’s much cheaper for the generic… save on gas too and stop all that global warming… :biggrin


“The system is broken when you have babies being treated in ER for a cough and fever because the parents can not afford a regular pediatrician’s office visit.”

The whole point that you fail to realize is that going nationalized healthcare WILL MAKE IT HARDER for the naiton AS A WHOLE to get adequate care… so you do the baby you reference no justice by giving it all to the government to run…

As far as affording a pediatric office visit goes, they take payments… if they are at a point in their lives where they cannot afford it, maybe they should have to SACRIFICE their cell phone, or other LUXURY items to do so. For those that have been stuck in a situation where they didn’t have catastrophic health insurance, if they can’t pay, that is what BANKRUPTCY is for… Abe Lincoln did it twice… Two to three years later and banks will start looking at you for a mortgage. Small price to pay for being able to wipe out ALL your debt and still get the services you needed. If you have a house… you even get to keep it POST-bankruptcy…

Answer me two simple questions…

  1. Are you saying that there does not have to be ANY sacrifice to get health insurance?

  2. Do you think you are going to get “FREE” health insurance with nationlized healthcare?

Really think about your answer…

  1. Are you saying there doesn’t have to be ANY sacrifice to get health insurance???

What type of “SACRIFICE” do you want??? How about the guy who worked for 35 years and lost his job and has NO HEALTH INSURANCE??? Did he “SACRIFICE” enough for you?? Now he’s 55 years old an the cost for insurance at the EXACT TIME he REALLY needs it is out of reach. We’ll just tell him he didn’t SACRIFICE enough!!

How about the 2 year old who’s parents work but their employers provide no health care because the cost is insane??? Did that 2 year old “SACRIFICE” enough for you?? I personally know 3 FAMILIES in this situation RIGHT NOW…All of them college educated, worked for EVERYTHING they ever got, but can’t find a job with benefits, but they’re ALL working full time. Their COBRA health care ran out. They’ve cut EVERYTHING…Cable TV GONE…Cell PHONES GONE…Extra car GONE (he takes the bus to his job)…They STILL can’t even come close to paying HALF the monthly cost of health insurance for a family plan…NICE HUH??
Maybe you could tell them they haven’t SACRIFICED ENOUGH.

  1. Do you think your going to get FREE health insurance with a Nationalized system???

Nothing’s going to be FREE…Who the hell told you ANYTHING is FREE??
WE pay RIGHT NOW for the un-insured. We pay with HIGHER INSURANCE PREMIUMS. Did you read what I wrote??? The difference will be WHERE THE CHECK GETS SENT!!! I’d rather send mine to the Goverment than a piece of sh*t like “Dollar Bill” McGuire. Will there be waste…There’s waste EVERYWHERE Buddy…You Republicans must live in some type of DREAM WORD where babies pay for their own health insurance, people never get sick, and the elderly just float off into space when they need long term care!!! Your ramblings here are not even CLOSE to a REAL SOLUTION to these problems. Yet you want ANSWERS??..You haven’t given a answer to ANYTHING…I hear a lot of bitching and moaning, a whole lot of WHINING…But NOTHING even CLOSE to a solution.

You defend United Health by trying (lamely I might add) to compare ME using MY MONEY to invest in stocks…In some wacked out Republican world way of thinking…You lump me in with Dollar Bill McGuire. A man who came very close TO GOING TO PRISON for his GREED…DOLLAR BILL PAID HIMSELF…Are you READY??? …


I should actually say United Healths SUBSCRIBERS Paid Dollar Bill that money. It came from THEM, it also came from the DOCTORS that actually SAVE PEOPLES LIVES…See good ole Bill was a DOCTOR…he bailed out of that profession when he saw the MILLLIONS to be made by SQUEEZING other Doctors, Employers, Hospitals. Who know…The HEALTH CARE SYSTEM!!!
Billy boy made what amounted to the ANNUAL salary of about 500 DOCTORS!!! and he did that in ONE YEAR!!! No…there’s NO WASTE IN THAT SYSTEM…There’s NO WAY a Goverment could run that for less!!!

Nationalized Health care IS COMING…With Spector and Frankin adding to the rolls of the Democrats it’s going to be fun to read your comments as your head explodes with all this SOCIALISM!!!

My ALL TIME FAVORITE…“I’m not a Republician” thought of yours is the defense of UNITED HEALTHS PROFITS.

Nice try spinnning that one!!! That piece of crap McGuire RAPED the subscribers inorder to pay HIMSELF HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of Dollars.
The DOCTORS who DESERVE and EARN their incomes didn’t get HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS…HE DID. Show me the worlds best BRAIN SURGEON, CARDIOLOGIST, or ANY other Doctor and NOT ONE of them even APPROACHED the ridiculus earnings “Dollar Bill” McGuire lined his pockets with. But let’s not talk about that…Let’s talk about Jake buying Ford stock or investing to build wealth. I do VERY WELL…I also live with MY EYES OPEN…If I can make an UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF MONEY in this country…I don’t have a problem sending a PORTION of that money to our GOVERMENT. It pays for things that are have VALUE!!! Our military is shining example. It’s LOADED with waste…Yet it is UNQUESTIONABLY “THE BEST IN THE WORLD” I actually see the VALUE in that!!! You NEVER addressed the Military 's health care system???..Sort of skated right over that one huh?? Imagine…a system ALREADY in place…ALREADY working…paid for 100% by the Federal Goverment (the tax payers)…NO…That could never work!

But The BEST…The absolute BEST thing I’ve seen you mention???

“Maybe they should SACRIFICE their CELL PHONES to pay for pediatric office visits.”

:banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead

That’s ALMOST as good as Republicans 1980 suggestion that the vegetable in childrens school lunches could be THE KETCHUP!!!

FINALLY a REAL SOLUTION to our countries health care crisis!!!..EVERYONE…Give up your $50/month cell phone to pay your $1800/month health insurance!!! Maybe the BABIES could give up that expensive FORMULA they drink too!!! Hey, it’s all about sacrifice right???Or…even better…Diapers are expensive…Parents could save HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS by giving up those LUXURIOUS DIAPERS and let the kids crap in NAPKINS!!!

I think your onto something here!!! Let’s get all the LOSERS to SACRIFICE and give up things like…HEAT…Running water…expensive FOOD…I hear you can EAT bark and MULCH!!!

B R I L L I A N T S O L U T I O N … Why didn’t we think of this sooner!!!

S A C R I F I C E your way to better health care!!!

I think the Aztecs did this!!! Didn’t work then…Probably not a REAL SOLUTION now…But…That’s what Republicans do these days…They whine, cry, and bitch…but offer NOTHING real. The party of N O.

Hey…Now I remember!!!

That’s why they got their @SSES handed to them in the election!!!

Keep up the good work!!!

What type of "SACRIFICE" do you want??? How about the guy who worked for 35 years and lost his job and has NO HEALTH INSURANCE??? Did he "SACRIFICE" enough for you?? Now he's 55 years old an the cost for insurance at the EXACT TIME he REALLY needs it is out of reach. We'll just tell him he didn't SACRIFICE enough!!

That’s RIDICULOUS! Working is NOT sacrificing. Working is just a normal part of life (or should be) and is what we do to provide the lifestyle we want.

THERE IS NO RIGHT TO FOOD, SHELTER, or HEALTHCARE in this country. We should NOT provide food, shelter, or healthcare for people who do not work.

Your collapse scenerio is getting old Mike....Face it...It ain't happening.

Quite the contrary, the timing of the collapse is being accelerated by the socialist programs of the Bush and especially Obama administrations (although our socialistic track started decades ago). With every entitlement that is introduced; with every deadbeat added to the public dole; the day of the collapse moves closer. We’ve moved directly from a bubble to a housing bubble and now to a government bubble. The government is committed to spending huge amounts of money that we don’t have and that will ABSOLUTELY result in a collapse.

The solution to the health “crisis” in this country is simple. Get the government completely out of healthcare; out of insurance; and cut out all regulations that require doctors and hospitals to treat people who can’t pay. What has happened in this country is that people believe that they are ENTITLED to “things” that they haven’t earned. The problem with that idea is that the money for these “things” must come from somewhere and that “somewhere” is thin air. The money to pay for all these entitlements isn’t coming from taxes - the people would NEVER stand for that level of taxation. The money is being printed with absolutely nothing backing it other than the government’s ability to create inflation.

FDJake, I find it ironic that you have made such a complete turn-around, seemingly because The Chosen One has been elected president.

What IS happening is the very beginning of a GLOBAL BOOM.

We may indeed be at the very beginning of a Chinese boom, but we’re well into the decline and fall of the USA! The Chinese are moving toward capitalism just about as fast as we’re moving toward socialism. We’re destined to be a third rate country that will collapse.


No Mike…My “turn around” has nothing to do with any President or politician. It based on REAL THINGS…If it was getting WORSE HERE, where I am, I be YELLING IT!!! I’ve said this before…My State ENTERED this recession LONG BEFORE other States did. It completely makes sense that we would EXIT first.

It’s called PAYING ATTENTION…When I try to get a roofer out to a job and he tells me he can’t even look at it for 2 weeks…I pay attention to that…When I see restaurants in my area FILLED to capacity on Friday nights…I pay attention to that…When I talk to my banker and he tells me the banking business has just entered the FATTEST PROFIT YEARS HE HAS EVER SEEN because interest rates from the Feds are ZERO…I pay attention to that…When I see comsumer sentiment numbers INCREASE at 3 times the expectation… I pay attention to that.

You DO need to get away from the losers you rent to…Lately your the most depressing person I read on this forum.

The “get the goverment out” theory worked great for WALL STREET huh???

And by the way…There’s a TON of people in this country that WORK THEIR @SSES OFF and still have no health care. No body SAID working was sacrifice…But when your HEALTH COVERAGE is TIED to your JOB…It becomes a problem for people when they LOSE that job.

And no…The U.S.A. is NOT going to collapse.


“Military healthcare” - I didin’t gloss over it, but answered it quite directly a few posts ago… you obviously didn’t read it… and it is certainly NOT how you portrayed it…

“bitching and moaning” - actually I am trying to change hearts and minds BEFORE this disaster happens because I CARE about the absolute MISERY this will create… That being said, I did offer up ideas a few posts up, but as usual FDJake, you went off on personal attacks, instead of reading the posts. It’s become a tired and lame debate tactic because you use it all the time…

“$1800 a month” - That’s $21K per year… if you are basing that monthly figure off COBRA payments, that IS THE GOVERNMENT. That is what they provide in lieu of employer contribution. DID YOU READ THAT - THAT’S THE GOVERNMENT. If you give me their name, phone number, I can GUARANTEE you that they do not have to pay $21K per YEAR for health insurance… We are a family of six, and we pay (including employer constribution) $7K per year… The laughable part is that you will probably NOT provide me with their info, so I CAN get them health insurance (no I do not sell insurance), even though you now have a source that can help them, which leads me to believe that it is bogus… If it were me, I would JUMP at the chance for my FAMILIES sake, not my pride…

“FREE healthcare” - and therein lies my point… it is NOT going to be free, and as someone who has had COBRA, which was more than my employer was paying, this is the fate that awaits people… INCREASED COST for DECREASED SERVICES… When it happens, and the misery is widespread, JUST LIKE IN CANADA, you can look back at your cheerleading of it with pride, I guess…

“United Health” - I did not say in anyway that I defended their CEO, but although I disagree with the amount he is being paid, if he was able to contract that for himself, and the company amd stockholders (you know, people like you) were willing to pay it, more power to him. We just witnessed the shareholders ousting a CEO, instead of “bitching and complaining” how much he makes. I don’t begrudge someone else the ability to leverage their talents to make as much as they can, just as I don’t begrudge you the ability to leverage your talents to make as much as you can on Wall Street in the stock market, you GREEDY CAPITALIST! :biggrin Just a few clicks and some research, and some money, and you get to make thousands? Why should you, as an individual, be able to make thousands of dollars off of FORD on the backs of FORD employees and consumers? Why should YOU profit so much for doing so little as a few clicks and waiting for a few years when it could insure YOUR FRIENDS for years at a time? At least he is a CEO with responsibilities for the money he is making…

What I don’t agree with is the government telling EITHER OF YOU how much money or opportunity you are permitted to make or get access to in our country… If you made $124 million in trading stocks FDJAke, I wouldn’t begrudge you it, but all you would have done is traded stocks FOR YOURSELF, and made money FOR YOURSELF. I do find it funny that the entertainment industry is so vocal about CEO pay, when they themselves make oodles and oodles of it…

BTW, the 2-year old and the 55 year old GETS FREE Healthcare if there income is low, so the argument IS BOGUS…

“Cell phone” &" sacrifice" - My point about the cell phone, and other LUXURY items (i.e. - internet, cable, , is that YOU have a responsibility tp provide for YOU. Others can help out in times of need, but your BASICS (i.e. - food, shelter, healthcare) are YOUR ONGOING RESPONSIBILITY. These are the things you are supposed to provide BEFORE the luxury items… Once you’ve taken care of your basic responsibilities, THEN you go onto LUXURY items… The reason people have become weakened to their own responsibilities, and literally have had their lives ruined is that they do not rely on themselves, but have come to rely on the government. And we see what a great job they do… It is human nature… the more you do for people, the less they do for themselves… Why is there no hue and cry to pay everyones auto insurance? Last time I lived in New Jersey, we were being REQUIRED BY THE GOVERNMENT to pay auto insurance to the tune of over $3k per year, and that was for older vehicles…

“but they’re ALL working full time. Their COBRA health care ran out. They’ve cut EVERYTHING…Cable TV GONE…Cell PHONES GONE…Extra car GONE (he takes the bus to his job)…” - What I don’t get, is that if they are working FULL-TIME, and not getting money taken out for employee contributions for healthcare, and NOT paying for COBRA, and the cable, phones, the extra car (no more insurance payment for it either)… WHERE IS ALL THE MONEY GOING? Think your bogus example through next time… If they are real people, HAVE THEM CONTACT ME or provide me with their name and number and I WILL improve their circumstance (MORE SOLUTIONS), even though their “friend” who reminds us ALL THE TIME how much money he makes, doesn’t step up, give them HIS MONEY, to help HIS friends in their time of need (but would rather have them beg at the alter of the government), which he could also WRITE OFF, or give them one of his properties to live in RENT FREE while they get back on their feet. But, prove me wrong, provide me with your friends contact info, or give them my email to contact me, and I WILL take action to improve their circumstance WITHOUT the government…

As I’ve said before… liberals are GREAT at spending OPM (other people’s money), but stay away from theirs… and there is no such thing as liberal hypocrisy…

Better yet…YOU give US the PHONE NUMBER for Health care coverage that these people can get at the great prices you mention. Post the number RIGHT HERE…There’s a LOT of people here who are self employed. Do something to HELP them…Then they can simply call and confirm EVERYTHING YOU say.

See…What you DON’T KNOW is… I PAID for my OWN Health Insurance for 15 years. Bluecross/Blueshield through the Rhode Island Builders Association. For a family of 4 that coverage now costs $1698/month.
I got THAT rate (the best I could get in this area) because it was a GROUP plan. Out of plan was $2000/month. Some poor bastard working as a WAITRESS (which is what one of these people is doing) AIN’T GETTING THAT RATE.

But you go right ahead and POST THAT PHONE NUMBER…I’m sure there’s other folks here who know people that can use those GREAT RATES you mentioned!!!

SO LET’S HAVE IT________________________________________.

Fill in the blank…Post the number so we can help these people.

What you DON’T know about health care is SCARY. Did you know that EVERY State has different rates for COVERAGE. Oh…DIDN’T KNOW THAT ???

Did you know MALPRACTICE INSURANCE in Florida is ONE THIRD the cost of the same coverage in NEW YORK State. Gee… I WONDER if that could affect your MONTHLY INSURANCE PAYMENTS???

Man…If YOUR the medicine for our health care problems…The disease might be BETTER.

DON’T forget to post that PHONE number so we can ALL help people get better health insurance rates!!! (That ain’t happening)

I thought it was bogus… thank you for proving it and nice try in the attempt to deflect it…

BTW, there is no ONE number to fit all and until I have their info, and details I cannot help them…as you state, it’s different in each state… but ANYONE interested in help, email me and I be happy to help with their particular circumstance as I am able…

What you don’t know is that I am self-employed, have been for a decade, have been employed running a multi-million dollar company, dealing with this issue driectly for employees, until MY gig ended resulting in dealing with the governments MORE EXPENSIVE COBRA PLAN and that I have lived in different states under different systems.

But you could’ve, and STILL CAN help them in the ways I described, but we know because IT’S YOUR MONEY, it’s not going to happen, even though we know THAT won’t happen… As we can see, liberals are OK with spending OPM, but not their own…

“working as a waitress” - if that’s their only income, they would qualify under Medicaid. If not, and it is two peoples salary’s, and they “cut EVERYTHING out”, WHERE IS ALL THE MONEY GOING?

I knew that wasn’t happening. :bs

Seriously…If you have all this knowledge about obtaining inexpensive health care coverage. Let’s HEAR IT. Explain it so we can ALL benefit from your Multi-million dollar company experience.

For anyone else who cares…She’s an Ex computer IT employee…now working as a waitress. Her previous job had an onsite day care for their 2 kids. That’s gone now so she works as a waitress nights and weekends so she can watch the kids during the day. Her husband was a supervisor working in a plant that made electrical switches and fixtures. His job went to China. He now works for a landscaper cutting lawns for $12/hour. THEY HAVE A $95,000 mortgage on a home they bought long before the boom. They didn’t run up their credit cards (they do have a small balance they pay on monthly) and they sold the newer car they had to eliminate that payment. He rides the bus to the landscaping companies office each day so his wife can have the car if she needs it. His ENTIRE weekly pay would have to go to Bluecross at a GROUP RATE in order to get coverage.
that would leave her income of $300/week for FOOD, the mortgage, utilities, and anything else. They are surviving and are up todate on their mortgage and all their bills.


Here’s the scary part…that waitress job she took…Had 49 applicatons for 2 spots. Her husband ran into the same situation. Lot’s of people looking for very few jobs. They took what they could GET.

These are great, hard working people. They are SCARED TO DEATH of simply getting SICK or seriously hurt. They are just making their payments, they can’t come NEAR what they need to pay health insurance at the rates in New England. They’ve cut back on everything. They probably won’t be in this situation forever. But all it takes is an injury and they could literally LOSE THEIR HOME.

Maybe I’m screwed up…But in the richest country in the world…Somethings wrong with that.

As far as helping people…Believe me…I help more people in a WEEK, than you do in a YEAR!!!

Ask the readers here who bought FORD STOCK how much HELP I’ve given them. Or the people I’ve walked step by step through their first flip.


Or you could ask the guy I handed $9000 to last week for FINDING A PROPERTY FOR ME!!! He spent 5 minutes of his time calling me with a story about a property a guy had left to him. he was smart enough to get his phone number. I gave him the money because I MADE MONEY on the deal and he FOUND IT for me. No money out of his pocket, no risk to him. And a $40,000 profit for me…I think that was VERY generous. I also give to charity on a regular basis and have helped more friends than I care to remember.