Naitonalized Healthcare...

Random Ramblings
281

Where in the constitution does it say anything about granting the Federal Gov the power to create education. Its not in there… unless im a idiot and I missed it. Therefor… No child left behind = ??

Seriously… tell me where it says anything about Education (or Heath care for that matter, but whoaaa, lets not get off topic). Education… where is it?

As for my reasons of cutting public education. Yes. I dont want to pay for OTHER KIDS education whos parents could pay for it. I understand the need to pay for poverty families, but for example…

Me and all of my friends(most of my friends) parents could have buckled down and paid for full tuition at a High School. The parents should flip the bill for THEIR KIDS education instead of society, especially when they can afford too. Whats so wrong with that Chris? Whats so wrong about making able-paying parents pay for their own kids education.

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Ummmm hello that document was written over 200 years ago. Do you think every law or act since then was thought of back then. Seriously …get real with your arguments.

But since you asked and I’m not saying your an idiot, but I believe this is what you are looking for…

U.S. Constitution Article 1 section 8

The Congress shall have power… To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

As I said take a look at the countries that do not provide an education for their citizens and see where they are on the list of modernized countries.

283

Yes, it was written over 200 years ago, and now our politicans are shredding it. Been political document ever written. The Constitution wasnt designed to predict and dictate laws we live under, as you suggest, of course they werent Nostradaumus. But history repeats itself, and our Founding Fathers knew very well that small government is the best government.

Yes… then it continues to list the powers they have. Come on Chris, your a smart guy. We both know that line doesnt give them authority to get involved in education. The powers of the Federal Gov are spelled out very very simply. SO SIMPLE EVEN I CAN UNDERSTAND.

Why cant Education be a State issue? Why do Liberals have to have everything done by the Federal Government. I personally would prefer everything to be done LOCALLY.

284

Because whenever states run things they mess it up. Remember Jim Crow? Blacks could ride on the bus with whites if the bus went interstate but if the bus didn’t cross state lines they had to have a colored section. Where you home schooled?

285

SOOooo,states screw it up but the federal govt does’nt???I beg you to rethink that one,seriously.The united STATES of america was "united"under the promise that each state would still keep its government and laws in place.Therefore creating competition among the states.And since Texas created more jobs than all the other 49 STATES combined last year I would expect Texans to be soooooo glad of this priciple!!!Now I ask you,when the fed makes all us states equal,how will Texas or any other state pitch business to come there.

Still don’t understand WHY anyone wants this big govt takeover,ESPECIALLY TEXANS!!!

286

I basically echo what Bama just said.

287

O.k. I’ll jump in with my 2 cents. I had to pay for my family’s insurance out of pocket for about 10 months last year. My blue cross plan costs $1028/mo. for a family plan with prescriptions. That’s a lot of money! I get insurance benefits through my employer now and get to pay only $640/mo. :shocked Some benefit… About 4 years ago, I was paying only $240/mo. out of pocket with benefits. If the govt. were to enter the healthcare business and provide the same service than what’s out ther now for a cheaper price, I’m all for it. Frankly, I’d like to see the govt. turn a profit in this. It’s probably entering into “monopoly” territory if its able to take so much market share away from existing competitors. But if it can level the playing field to keep everyone honest that’s a good thing. This plan would have bring down the cost of healthcare without compromising quality. My insurance paid for a lot more while I paid a lot less. I now pay more for less quality. That’s the norm for this industry.
I don’t believe you can get a good handle on what plans will cost until you flush out waste in the system from both healthcare facilities and insurance companies. I’ll give you an example. The hospital I work in has a routine EKG on all new admissions wether they they need it or not. Most of these tests are done on people who are transferred from other hospitals where these tests were already done. About 80% of these patients don’t even have any cardiac issues. They do it because they can charge it and it will be paid. We have about 5 patients who are essentially “brain dead” who are being kept alive on a ventilator (which is my job). Their families don’t visit them anymore. They just lay in bed 24/7 with no quality of life. They can’t eat, speak or interract with the world around them. They’re on medicaid because their insurance has run out. I asked my boss what they charge for a ventilator. It’s $900/day! These guys have been there since 2003! Here the math for ONE facility. $13.9 MILLION over 8.5 yrs. for 5 PATIENTS!!! That’s right. No BS. these are real #'s from real experience. Just think about all the facilities around the country doing the same thing… THAT my friends is waste! Before you start jacking up the cost for healthcare, you have to stop the waste. There too much more to mention in one post, but this B.S about “pulling the plug on grandma” irritates me. Many of these “grandmas” I’ve spoken to (who are able to speak) never wanted these machines breathing for them. It becomes a way of life they never wanted. The families making the decisions can’t bring themselves to the quality of “quality of life” issue these patients have to face.
Many of these long term patients start out with private insurance. The private insurance cuts them off when they become " Chronic Ventilator Dependent". That means they’ll need the ventilator for the rest of their lives. The next step is medicaid… And that’s where they go and stay until they die. Private insurance companies “pull the plug on grandma” and the cost shifts to the taxpayers. Medicaid was never meant for these costs. It was meant to cover retirees and elderly after their working years are over. This is bankrupting our govt. Private insurers dictate what they will and won’t pay. That dictates the care given. Medicaid gets stuck with these long term patients that the private insurers dumped. Those costs are paid by the taxpayer. That fact will not change anytime soon. I say let the govt. jump in with a public option. Let them compete with the private insurers. Let them make a profit on people who can pay for their own insurance but don’t want through the nose. Perhaps these people would actually go out and spend some of their newfound money to help stimulate the economy. I think its time to get off my soapbox. Sorry for the rant.

288

Bama,

Many states have done a very poor job of running their budgets, and have become extremely corrupt. California and Louisiana are to examples that come to mind. Unfortunately if the federal government is going to have to keep loaning these states money and cleaning up their messes then they are going to want more control. Very similar to the bank bailouts. They want tax payer money to stay afloat, but then they don’t want to give up any control when the time comes for decisions to be made.

As for “no child left behind” what is wrong with saying “you have to meet a minimum standard of eligibility” if you are going to take public funds for your schools.

289

phlemboy,

Great post. I have been there too, taking care of ventilator-dependent patients who are vegetables. Sad and wasteful.

As for the Canadian Health System, we have 2 Canadian (Alberta) accountants who have stayed with us for several winters. They rave about the Canadian system. When one of them had a heart attack here, the Canadian Medical system airlifted him back to Canada. Where he got well.

THE AVERAGE LIFE SPAN OF A CANADIAN IS 3 YEARS LONGER THAN AN AMERICAN’S LIFE SPAN.

(Re-thinking the above…I bet the longevity is because we lose so many young males to gun violence. Any statisticians on this site?)

Furnishedowner

290

Christopher,
I agree with us(taxpayers)should’nt have to pay for those corrupt states.But to compare it to the bank bailouts is where I differ.I blame the govt just as much as the banks/wall street for the bailouts even being needed.Because was’nt it early in clinton years when the credit standards were lowered and"get everyone in a house"began.That was a govt push,in step with wall street playing along.So I don’t see how those who really created the problem are gonna fix it.The saying "too many chiefs,not enuff indians"comes to mind when I think of the govt interfering in the private/captalist sector.

291

sellnbama,

The government hasn’t interfered ENOUGH in some cases. I think the someone at the SEC should take the hit for NOT pulling the plug on Bernie Madoff years ago.

We PAY those government officials to keep us safe from blood-suckers like Madoff. At the very least they should be fired. They were derelict. We DO need government to watch over things that individuals can not.

Furnishedowner

292

I was watching Fox Business or CNBC or some such show and they showed that the average pay of a bank CEO is $14million while the head of the SEC makes $180k or so. That was the story. But in reality the guy in the trenches at the SEC makes a lot less than that. I would guess that the level that the guy would be at to make this kind of case would be a GS-14 or GS-15 and he makes $95k. If you compare that to the guy who actually makes the policy (the CFO) and he makes $5million to $10million. You get a much better crook than cop.

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“I was watching Fox Business or CNBC or some such show and they showed that the average pay of a bank CEO is $14million while the head of the SEC makes $180k or so. That was the story. But in reality the guy in the trenches at the SEC makes a lot less than that. I would guess that the level that the guy would be at to make this kind of case would be a GS-14 or GS-15 and he makes $95k. If you compare that to the guy who actually makes the policy (the CFO) and he makes $5million to $10million. You get a much better crook than cop.”

And yet the bankers job is to make money within the framework they have to (i.e. - regulation), and the SEC’s job is to ENFORCE the rules… THAT is their JOB… And if the banker doesn’t do HIS job, he get’s CANNED… government SEC employee… not so much…

BTW, there were SEVEN different governmental agencies, who’s SPECIFIC job was to guard against these situations, congressional sub-committee’s, etc… and you didn’t hear about ANY of the government employees being held accountable…

Charile Rangel, D.-NY, Chairmen of the House Ways and Means Committee, you know THE CHIEF TAX-WRITING COMMITTEE, is under investigation FOR SKIRTING TAXES in one investigation, and OTHER ethics violations in another…

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/02/AR2009090203082_pf.html

And of course, Obama wants to be “transparent”, just NOT for the first 8 months of his adminstration on WHO he was talking to when all this went down…

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32447886/ns/politics-white_house/

Funny thing is, Obama is ONCE AGAIN relying on George Bush’s arguments for his justifications… :biglaugh

294

Furnished,
I agree with the oversite neglect in madoff case and some others.But somethings just are’nt the govt’s business in my eyes.This is a fine line to walk in interferance in capitalism to protect people.I personally don’t understand stocks,therefore I don’t invest in something I don’t know.I hope to learn more and at some time invest in them.But until then,no.

I just can’t beleive that people are still so gullible to have any trust in the govt that is steady compounding lies.I believe you are a reasonable person furnished.Please tell me that you are ashamed that once again obama has surrounded himself with racists(admitted communist also)like Van jones.When do the real democrats separate themselves from this?? I think a “fool me once” is in order!

295

sellnbama,

I find it impossible to believe that Obama is a racist! Come on, the man is half Causasian and half African! He has lived his life as a black man because of his skin color and external identification. But he was raised by his beloved white grandmother and mother. To say he is a racist he would have to abandon 1/2 of his being. Not possible.

It’s as if you were to say, “I hate liberals and leftists. Therefore I am going to cut off my left arm.”

And the same goes with the “Communist” leanings. That bogeyman had a spear driven through his heart after the Joseph McCarthy national scandal. And especially after the fall of the Iron Curtain. Thank you, Ronald Reagan, you get credit for that improvement in world safety.

I don’t know where you are getting that kind of toxic stuff from, sellnbama. But the hate mongers churn out new garbage every day. I am appalled at the voices on Conservative talk radio. I never hear anything positive! If just once I heard, “Obama’s program on X and Y seems to be working. That is good news for the nation. But we still don’t like the progress on y and z.”, I would be thrilled. I would even listen longer. Instead there is just the kind of mud-slinging that you brought up.

On another note, I was wondering if you and Obama were perhaps related? Cousins? The name similarity struck me–SellnBAMA and OBAMA? :smile

296

Furnishedowner,

"I find it impossible to believe that Obama is a racist! Come on, the man is half Causasian and half African! He has lived his life as a black man because of his skin color and external identification. But he was raised by his beloved white grandmother and mother. To say he is a racist he would have to abandon 1/2 of his being. Not possible.’

That can be read two different ways… for clarification, what is your definition of racist?

297

Positive,
Do me a favor and throw up the numerous video links of Van jones saying his racists rants so furnished does’nt think we’re all just following “boogymen”.And you may want to refresh with some rev wright or possibly obama calling his g-mother “typical white person”.THIS HAS BEEN ALL OVER THE PLACE ABOUT VAN JONES, FURNISHED!!!He’s not a racist,he only chooses to hang around racist :rolleyesGood lord,get a clue!!

Thanks Pos.

298

Sellinbama,

Yes indeed, the post are numerous on Van Jones, and as I understand it, he resigned this morning (notice he wasn’t ASKED for his resignation or fired by Obama)… absolutely vile stuff in his own words… BUt you don’t think posting those links would actually change Furnishedowners mind, do you? My experience with her has been once she believe’s something, right or wrong, the facts don’t get in her way…

Not even Obama’s own words would cause her to question things - “Judge me by the people with whom I surround myself”…

Now remember, Van Jones is one of DOZENS of unelected, and quite evidently un-vetted CZAR’s… What does THAT tell you? They either vetted him, and KEPT HIM ANYWAY, or the Czar’s, who work DIRECTLY with the President, are not vetted positions but cronie positions working on an agenda… neither one a good choice, and we have a right to know who is working on policy that AFFECTS US… and I don’t think this is over with just Van Jones, as they have opened a can or worms on this… time will tell…

These CZAR’s are unconstitutional IMHO, for EITHER party, as they are NOT elected by the people, nor did they go through any Congressional vetting process, nor are they held accountable by Congressional oversight… They are accountable to the President only… They are the Presidential version of the FED… :bs

WHY do you think that Obama who CLAIMED transparency, will NOW start releasing LIMITED White House Log info, but will NOT for the first 8 months of his administration???..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32447886/ns/politics-white_house/

Gee, I wonder why?? How many more Van-Jones types met with the President during these first 8 months, when ALL this legislation was being written…

But people who QUESTION the people Obama surrounds himself with, which OBAMA TOLD US TO DO, are racists??? :banghead

299

To go one step futher in demonstrating the lunacy of calling people who question people Obama has surrounded himself with (because apparenty THEY haven’t done this job), as “racists”…

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9AHL8O80&show_article=1

From the article…

“On the eve of historic fights for health care and clean energy, opponents of reform have mounted a vicious smear campaign against me,” Jones said in his resignation statement. “They are using lies and distortions to distract and divide.”

Get that, his own words just played from You-Tube are lies and distortions… BTW, he apologized TWICE for these “lies and distortions”…

"Jones said he has been “inundated with calls from across the political spectrum urging me to stay and fight.”

And yet none of them came out publicly to support and fight for him to stay???

300

POs,
Thanks,all too true.I just like to believe that people will change their minds in light of the plain as day facts all around.But,I guess you could be right about him/her.Still can’t believe the reference to Reagan either,the very man that DID preach and make govt smaller called “communist”.Unbelievable!And you’re dead on obama not firing his sorrya$$ in front of everyone tells the truth(just like rev wright)and in transcripts in college he is a firm beleiver in black theology.Which makes our first INTERACIAL president a racist!!!Furnished,wanting to overlook this FACT because he’s 1/2 white is just plain stupid.This president is trying to bring us back to the 1950’s,forgetting that we live in the ONLY nation that has numerous benifits for minorities(which hispainics have passed blacks in being).If anyone should be whinning,it should be the american indians.