Naitonalized Healthcare...

So voters should say, “we know nothing of your candidacy for re-election or any worthwhile things you achieved while we wasted our tax money on your salary.”

I used to work for the VA system as a psychologist. I was at one of the “good” ones and I can tell you, their care STUNK! I believe they recently killed a friend of ours. He was extremely ill from Crohn’s disease, they discovered cancer and right away, while he was still dehydrated and extremely weak, started chemo on him. He died a few days later, when he was expected to live at least 12 months.

For those who are falling for Obama’s argument that the “savings” to pay for this will be from preventative care… you might be interested in this article…

The Great ‘Prevention’ Myth - Washington Post - Charles Krauthammer…

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/13/AR2009081302898.html?sub=AR

Interesting points from the article…

[i][b]"Overall, preventive care INCREASES medical costs.

This inconvenient truth comes, once again, from the CBO. In an Aug. 7 letter to Rep. Nathan Deal, CBO Director Doug Elmendorf writes: “Researchers who have examined the effects of preventive care generally find that the added costs of widespread use of preventive services tend to exceed the savings from averted illness.”

"Back on Earth, a rigorous study in the journal Circulation found that for cardiovascular diseases and diabetes, “if all the recommended prevention activities were applied with 100 percent success,” the prevention would cost almost 10 times as much as the savings, increasing the country’s total medical bill by [color=white]162 percent[/color]. That’s because prevention applied to large populations is very expensive, as shown by another report Elmendorf cites, a definitive review in the New England Journal of Medicine of hundreds of studies that found that more than 80 percent of preventive measures added to medical costs. "[/b][/i]

How can those of you who want nationalized healthcare NOT realize that the “cost savings” is a ruse???

Are you just ignoring the facts? How can you add the supposed 47 million uninsured to the roles WITHOUT more doctors and nurses and still expect the same level of service?

Take the supposed “savings issue” out, and it negates a MAJOR reason to do this…

So if you blindly support this when ALL the plans proposed thus far have been shown by the CBO that they will INCREASE COSTS not save them… do you feel no sense of responsibility on this to oppose it?

If it is going to COST MORE… WHY do it?

Wake up!

Preventative care costs, but saves in the long run.

Look at the expensive programs to develop vaccines. Preventative vaccinations have emptied the polio wards of the past. Smallpox and other diseases are almost eradicated here. Our children no longer get whooping cough and other killers.

Nothing is so black-and-white that you can say that preventative care doesn’t work and is too expensive.

Anti-smoking and anti-obesity programs may be expensive but they can prevent diabetes and cardio-vascular accidents down the road.

I keep noticing little old ladies, wearing nasal oxygen, sitting alone and eating in restaurants. Their husbands (who probably smoked more) are long dead. That “Lucky Strike” generation of women who smoked because it was chic are now paying. Society is paying. There were no anti-smoking ads then.

Prevention is an investment in our future health and longevity.

Furnishedowner

“Preventative care costs, but saves in the long run.”

Furnihsedowner, you are missing the point entirely…

First, I am not the one saying that prevention costs more… the quotes above are from Circulation who stated that - “the prevention would cost almost 10 times as much as the savings, increasing the country’s total medical bill by 162 percent” IF “ALL the recommended prevention activities were applied with 100 PERCENT SUCCESS”

and then from New England Journal of Medicine that in the "DEFINITIVE review in the New England Journal of Medicine of HUNDREDS OF STUIDES that found that MORE than 80 percent of PREVENTIVE measures ADDED TO MEDICAL COSTS…

One of the main thrusts by OBAMA is the cost savings… he keeps TELLING US HIMSELF, that if we don’t control costs, that not only is healthcare not going to get better, but also the economy… So, if by doing what he wants to do will then INCREASE COSTS, that BLOWS A MAJOR HOLE in his argument for this…

All I am saying is that it is a ruse… IOW, you are being played… It is being promoted under FALSE pretenses…

So, if it is going to cost us SUBSTANTIALLY more than it does now, it kinda NEGATES one of the main arguments, wouldn’t you agree?

For those who believe the government shoud do this, tell us WHY they should not be hald accountable to FIX the existing systems FIRST! Medicaid, Social Security, Medicare… all OUT OF MONEY… and these systems have been around for DECADES… each year that goes by, it gets WORSE, not better… So the answer is to add MORE to the problem??? How does this in any way make sense?

I honestly don’t see why ANYONE would be willing to do this until the government can demonstrate they can fix what they ALREADY have screwed up…

So if developing the Polio Vaccine cost 10 times as much as treating all those kids in iron lungs, you would go for the cost savings, PosOutlook?

Furnishedowner

Furnishedowner,

“So if developing the Polio Vaccine cost 10 times as much as treating all those kids in iron lungs, you would go for the cost savings, PosOutlook?”

Interestingly enough Furnishedowner, WITHOUT all the PROFITS from the corporations, we would not be ABLE to research and develope such vaccines… So you are saying you are FOR the profits so we can develop the vaccines, right?..

Furnished…You might find this interesting…

SALK actually developed the Polo Vaccine while at the UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURG!!!

You know one of those CRAPPY, GOVERMENT cost controlled/subsidized schools that can’t hold a candle to PRIVATE schools like Harvard!! :banghead :banghead :banghead

Oh…That’s right…That was ANOTHER example we gave of a GOVERMENT RUN PROGRAM that works like a charm…STATE COLLEGES!!! Half the cost of PRIVATE college and STILL providing INCREDIBLE VALUE and apparently a VACCINE for POLO!!!

FDjake,

LOL…

“That was ANOTHER example we gave of a GOVERMENT RUN PROGRAM that works like a charm…STATE COLLEGES!!! Half the cost of PRIVATE college and STILL providing INCREDIBLE VALUE and apparently a VACCINE for POLO”

Let’s examine that shall we? You prop up State Colleges as a successful program, and you won’t get too much argument from me on this, beyond the fact that the VALUE comes from Private colleges, to the tune of 10 TIMES THE SAVINGS… You must have forgtten that from the last time… Private Colleges are able to charge, AND GET, the amounts they do BECAUSE they PAY OFF… If they didn’t, people wouldn’t pay…

But let’s look at this a litttle more… State Colleges have to do something state-run K-12 public schools do not… COMPETE with Private Colleges for business… This is BECAUSE adults are FREE to CHOOSE the college they WANT to attend… They are NOT MANDATED where they attend…

Now, state-run public K-12 schools, you know the ones where YOU HAVE NO CHOICE where you go… these not only PRODUCE LESS of a result for what we are PAYING FOR IN TAXES, but also require a higher student-to-teacher ratio… if people were given the CHOICE, through vouchers (you know, like they do with colleges), just like in DC, they would VACATE these schools… Interesting how they OK’d that program in DC… 38-43% of the POLITICIANS send their kids to private school, THREE TIMES the national average… So THEY don’t even believe in the product they want THE REST OF US to use… Kinda like healthcare… they KILLED three Rep ammendments to get them to use whatever plan they wanted US to use… That should TELL you ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW about their “plan”… talk about “ivory towers”…

But instead, the government keeps these kids ENSLAVED to their local school district, and the ones in the inner city are hurt the most…

People who HOMESCHOOL, do it for FAR LESS money and ALSO achieve much better academic results… Come to think of it, our country’s FOUNDERS were homeschooled…

So, again, as we can see, while the government can do it, the private sector does it better!

MONTEZUMA’S REVENGE…AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN…

What the **** are you talking about???

I guess developing a VACCINE FOR POLIO wasn’t a big enough PAY OFF. :rolleyes

You say NOTHING in your posts…

BLAH,BLAH, BLAH

You say the PROFITS from companies paid for the POLIO Vaccine…When that statement is PROVEN INCORRECT you BABBLE about K-12 schooling and the GOVERMENT ENSLAVING CHILDREN???

Now we can all look forward to a 1000 word rectal blast from MONTEZUMA!!!

Fdjake,

“MONTEZUMA’S REVENGE…AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN…”

LOL… I thought you “skip” over all my posts and DON’T READ THEM because they are SOOO Boring… you apparently are not only the first to read them, then POST to them AS WELL… as we all can see, more BS, you say one thing and do another… :bs

As far as “MONTEZUMA’S REVENGE” goes… Like I’ve said before, I ADMIT that I can be verbose, you however, of ALL PEOPLE, act like you don’t do the SAME THING… :bs which has people giggling as they read it… :biglaugh :lol

“You say the PROFITS from companies paid for the POLIO Vaccine…”

As usual Fdjake, YOU SAID THAT and are putting word into people’s posts AGAIN… You just keep proving this point over and over again…

I NEVER said “the profits from companies paid for the POLIO vaccine”, what I said was - “Interestingly enough Furnishedowner, WITHOUT all the PROFITS from the corporations, we would not be ABLE to research and develope SUCH vaccines… So you are saying you are FOR the profits so we can develop the vaccines, right?..”

Quite a difference…

“You say NOTHING in your posts…”

Your opinion only, and I said plenty, you just can’t dispute it… again, quite a difference… and don’t forget, it was YOU who brought up the college thing… :rolleyes

“Now we can all look forward to a 1000 word rectal blast from MONTEZUMA!!!”

Nope, just over 200… More Fdjake exaggeration… and approximately a fifth of the words were quotes from you… :biglaugh :lol

NO you FORGOT… AGAIN…

Remember??? I said I enjoyed making you look like the BULLSH*TTER you really are here.

It’s fun for me!!! I know I have you when you start babbling and lose direction…Like YOU saying profits from corporations developed the cure for polio…only to find out it was discovered at a PUBLIC UNIVERSITY!!

YOU LOSE…A G A I N!!!

FDjake,

You are making yourself look ridiculous…

“Like YOU saying profits from corporations developed the cure for polio”

LOL… If you go back in the posts, the only time I, NOT YOU, used the word Polio was QUOTING you and Furnishedowner… so SHOW US, genius, using MY WORD FROM MY posts, not your made-up words, how I said what you tried to assign to me as my quote… How freaking embarrasing… :biglaugh :lol

“NO you FORGOT… AGAIN…”

Nice try, but YOU were the one who said you “skip” over posts with my name on it because they are soooo boring, and then you said AFTER this you were “done” with me, but when THAT was proven false, then you moved on to liking to “break my balls”

This is entirely keeping with your character and insecurities Fdjake… it’s no surprise to anyone who has read your posts for any length of time… :rolleyes

“Remember??? I said I enjoyed making you look like the BULLSH*TTER you really are here.”

Yeah, right… now if you could only use OUR words and not yours… whose the bullsh*tter?..

Fine, so instead of yet another straw man… DISPROVE my counterpoint to YOUR initial assertion about colleges… after all, YOU posited it… I just responded to it, and disected it… good luck, junior…

“YOU LOSE…A G A I N!!!”

Again with the insecurities… :biglaugh :lol Whoo-Hoo… Jakie-boy is winning… using his own MADE-UP words… :rolleyes only from the mind of a child…

The fact that YOU HAVE TO SAY you are “winning”, DEMONSTRATES your obvious insecurity… as far as who is “winning” that’s left up to the reader…

I’m insecure…Yea OK…

This coming from a guy in the REMODELING BUSINESS (at a time when HOME DEPOT, Lowes and anyone tied to remodeling is DYING) Who apparently has nothing but TIME on his hands these days to comment on political issues and lay out GRAND plans and theories on health care reform, abortion, and deficit reduction!! Gee, it looks like you must be about as busy as all the other REMODELERS are in rest of the United States!!! But I’m sure YOUR business is THRIVING!!! :bs :bs :bs Just like REAL ESTATE values in your area are UP 30% over LAST YEAR!!! :bs

Add in that DUMP you bought last year that has sucked up $37,000 of your capital and STILL isn’t finished and I think we can REALLY see who might be insecure here and who has REASON to be!!!

It all fits in PERFECTLY with your constant negativity about this country. People who are in tight financial times BITCH…They BLAME others for their situation like CONGRESS, the President, Liberals, ect…The come up with GRAND PLANS and conspiracy theories as to WHY they are in the situations they find themselves and they BS themselves…You know…Like YOU do!!

Nice try though…

I’m insecure…Yea OK…

“It all fits in PERFECTLY with your constant negativity about this country”

As usual Fdjake, you got it wrong AGAIN… I am not negative about this country, I LOVE THIS COUNTRY, which is WHY I am so NEGATIVE about what is being DONE TO IT through more and more government control… If you think the government is so great, and can do it so well, put your money where your mouth is and give them ALL YOUR MONEY, and let THEM decide how it is spent.

Think about this FDjake, the more we do what you and other liberals advocate, THE FARTHER WE MOVE from our countries founding… NOT closer… and you can ALWAYS expect me to “negative” on that!..

"This coming from a guy in the REMODELING BUSINESS (at a time when HOME DEPOT, Lowes and anyone tied to remodeling is DYING) "

I’m sorry FDjake… was it not YOU who was just arguing in another thread that in essence everything was UP… you told us what YOU 'were seeing" in New England, so which is it genius? You didn’t see that they were “dying” BEFORE you made this argument…

" Just like REAL ESTATE values in your area are UP 30% over LAST YEAR!!!"

Debunked time and again… :bs for EVERYONE else, to save you time, see the latest attempt in the thread - “Ronald Reagan on Socialized Medicine” - Reply #51

“The come up with GRAND PLANS and conspiracy theories as to WHY they are in the situations they find themselves and they BS themselves”

Grand plans and conspiracies, eh… :rolleyes I’m not the one who wants the government to run everything, and relies on global warming…

“I’m insecure…Yea OK…”

You just demonstrated it again with your reply… it’s OK Fdjake, it just takes you a little more time to process than the rest of us… :biggrin

So you’re saying your remodeling business is UP??? :bs :bs :bs :bs :bs :bs

During the highest unemployment rates in 60 years???

During a time when Equity in homes is almost non existant??

During a time when home equity LOANS are almost non existant??

When even “do it yourselfers” aren’t “doing it for themselves”???

Try to stay on point here for ONCE…

You said “I” was insecure…I belive it’s exactly the OPPOSITE…You are completely insecure…Your business is in a sector of the economy that has been RAVAGED by this recession. People are NOT remodeling their homes.

You have a property that you’ve POURED money into and haven’t completed. We’re moving into winter which means HEATING it will add holding costs, possible frozen pipes are always a concern…and you have $37,000 of your capital in it at a time when home values are falling.

You have very good reason to be INSECURE…

I have over $200,000 reasons (so far this year) why I have no SECURITY Worries…You’ve got an UNCOMPLETED PROJECT and a business in the worst hit sector of the economy.

But don’t argue the FACTS…Just make up BS as you go along and argue decimal points and percentages!!!

And MY favorite post of yours is STILL your original on this property from September of 2008. Posted BEFORE you found out the home was a termite infested, structural unsound, foundation defective DUMP…Because in that one we got the REAL STORY!!!

FDjake,

“So you’re saying your business is UP???”

Uhm… where did you even see where I said my business was “up”?.. unless you make it up again, it’s NOT THERE… I was referring to YOUR post in another thread, where YOU were arguing in essence everything was up because that was what YOU “were seeing” in New England… I’ll post it below for you and for everyone else to see…

With regards to my business, we’re keeping busy… knock on wood…

“During a time when Equity in homes is almost non existant??”

I have equity in BOTH my homes… guess you better hold onto those $200,000 reasons… :rolleyes

“People are NOT remodeling their homes”

And yet you were arguing JUST THE OPPOSITE just a couple of weeks ago… But then again, using your math. MONTHS ago… LOL

Re: Gov taking over PC’s and other goodies. Unbelievable.
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2009, 10:59:59 AM »

Fdjake - “I’m seeing things pickup EVERYWHERE in New England…Contractors that I know who were doing NOTHING now have WORK BACKED UP.”

WOW, the bottom dropped out of that one quick… You are arguing out of BOTH sides of your mouth, FDjake… YOUR copied and pasted words, NOT mine…

Your problem is you have a poor memory… you FORGET what you spew and then when you are called on it, somehow we’re the ones with the BS… :biglaugh :lol Like I said - the search engine is your enemy FDjake… Now, WHY is that, hmmm…

“We’re moving into winter which means HEATING it will add holding costs, possible frozen pipes are always a concern”

In New England, you have problems with frozen pipes, we don’t where I live… aside from this, the house is plumbed with PEX, and in our neck of the woods, pretty much eliminates any freezing problems which MAY arise…

“YOu have a property that you’ve POURED money into and haven’t completed”

No, I have a house I have invested in,… and even if I hold it for TWO years, I will make double-digit returns… I’m comfortable with that ROI… But we’ll see what the actual return is when all is said and done…

“Try to stay on point here for ONCE…”

lol LoL LOL… YOUR trying to tell ME to stay on point?! Dude, I’ve got news for you, I copy and paste your replies and respond POINT BY POINT… Dude, you are the absolute WORST when it comes to straw men and red herrings… :biglaugh :lol

Now, everyone will note that instead of anwering this - “Fine, so instead of yet another straw man… DISPROVE my counterpoint to YOUR initial assertion about colleges… after all, YOU posited it… I just responded to it, and disected it… good luck, junior…”

What did we get? Yet ANOTHER straw man! Surprise, surprise! Completely predictable… :bs

Now, let’s see if he’ll actually answer it, or provide yet ANOTHER straw man…

Happy to reply…

First off…I guess all that PEX you use gets HEATED with your BULLSHT…Do you actually BURN the BULLSHT or do you OFF GAS IT??? Either way…Your HOLDING COSTS ARE GOING HIGHER THIS WINTER!!! and your EQUITY will get SMALLER (if it exists AT ALL after a ONE PLUS YEAR FLIP/SALE) But You’ll learn this FIRST HAND…And we now KNOW you had to replace ALL the plumbing in this GEM too!!! Thanks…Keep writing…the more you do the CLEARER the REAL story gets!!!

Second…Things are definitely picking up around HERE…CONTRACTORS went from NOTHING on the books to having a backlog…This has had NO EFFECT ON HOUSING PRICES WHAT SO EVER!!! Prices CONTINUE to fall. We sure haven’t seen price APPRECIATION LIKE YOU CLAIM…This little GEM of yours went from being a 6 month rehab withan ARV of $65K to $75K (YOUR WORDS) to a YEAR PLUS PLUS project that has yet to be completed, and is now worth $85,000 to $90K because “people are NOW FLOCKING to “not so great” neighborhoods” :bs :bs :bs

As to YOUR EQUITY…It’s a FACT that people are NOT pulling equity out of their homes to remodel now. YOU are supposedly a PRO REMODELER…Gee I wonder if it’s had an effect on your business and thus, your ATTITUDE??? (Hint…it HAS!!) This is a typical BS’er tactic…Take a commonly known FACT…Like the huge DROPS we’ve had in rehab spending due to equity lines being PAID DOWN or not being made, and ATTEMPT to deflect the point. And…your EQUITY in that little dump is DROPPING EVERY SINGLE DAY YOU OWN IT!!! Your holding COSTS are INCREASING every MONTH that ticks by…AGAIN…This is KNOWN by every person here that has ever SUCCESSFULLY flipped a property. You also NEVER mention your HEATING cost projections for this winter??? It ALL adds up…That’s what YOU don’t get…Screwing around and taking OVER A YEAR on this project (and it WILL DEFINITELY BE WELL OVER one YEAR before this dump is sold) is going to HURT YOU…You’ll see.

Now let’s hear some FACTS from you…

How much has YOUR BUSINESS dropped during this recession???

How is it that home prices have RISEN from a low of $65K when you first purchased this property (and mentioned it HERE) to a NEW HIGH of $85,000 to $90,000 during the worst financial crisis since the great depression??? With unemployment in the MILLIONS??? AND…BANKS tightening lending standards…

Want to know what I can’t wait for???

I can’t wait till you find out how the new APPRAISAL RULES WORK!!! Guess what GENIUS??..That $65,000???..That’s your new appraisal COMP…NOT the $85K you roll out here…That $65,000 is what the BANKS are going to be using!!! This is affecting real estate transactions across the country. There is article after article about how deals are falling apart because properties WILL NOT APPRAISE.
But I’m sure in the “NOT SO NICE” neighborhood you’re in, EVERYTHING will be fine/ :rolleyes

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/31686602#31686602

Again…This goes right to the 50% rule…When the project is finished with the construction phase, it’s actually only HALF FINISHED…You are NOT even at the 50% point yet???

Wait…your little “investment” is going to really be a wake up call…What you DON’T KNOW about flipping homes could FILL a home.

And finally…PLEASE…Tell us WHERE this NEVERLAND is that you reside IN??? Where pipes don’t freeze, homes don’t need HEAT in the winter and Real Estate prices RISE during a national reccession at 30% in less than ONE YEAR!!!

What STATE are you in???

I’d can’t WAIT to hear this response!!!

First off I rarely post I love reading about other peoples deals and Jake has opened my eyes to stocks. I have bought a little but just getting my feet wet and learning so I can know what to do next time. Much appreciated Jake :beer

Positive, why don’t you finish the flip? You have had it 8 months and are working weekends? So that’s 8 days a month which is 64 days, correct? That is more than 2 months total and should be plenty of time to flip an 800 sq ft place. How you can sit on the computer and argue with Jake is mind boggling to me??? With the amount of time you spend on here you could have finished your flip 4 months ago.

For the record I am conservative and voted for McCain.

Positive, there is a reason people do not last in this business and that is bc its hard freaking work. I remind myself all the time if it were easy everyone would be doing it. I love this business and there is nothing else I would rather be doing but its hard work and I love every minute of it.

Positive, get off the computer and finish that project!!!

Fdjake,

“Happy to reply…”

As I said, COMPLETELY predictable… you spent almost 600 words to NOT answer what you’ve been asked now THREE TIMES to address…

"Now, everyone will note that instead of anwering this - “Fine, so instead of yet another straw man… DISPROVE my counterpoint to YOUR initial assertion about colleges… after all, YOU posited it… I just responded to it, and disected it… good luck, junior…”

What did we get? Yet ANOTHER straw man! Surprise, surprise! Completely predictable"

The above was the ONLY thing you were asked to reply to in my post right before yours… and you STILL can’t do that…

"$90,000 "

So, now we’re up to $90,000? AGAIN… YOUR words NOT mine… and you don’t think people see you doing this???

Tell you what… I’ll be sure to answer your other points IN DETAIL, once you answer the above INSTEAD of another straw man post… This will now be the FOURTH time you are asked…