More Gun Insanity

Random Ramblings
81

Furnished,

I can’t stand your rants about how great socialists countries are.WHy don’t you pack your crap and get gone to one instead of this horrible one your socialist/communist liberal leaders are trying to “fundamentally transform”??

Just can’t understand your blaming everything on our freedom.Gun rights had nothing to do with Ft. hood!!!Had this been anywhere else in Texas this scumbag would’nt have gotten off two shots because of conceal/carry law.Being politically correct in the military is the blame,simple as that.

82

Furnishedowner,

Let’s get down to the nitty-gritty…

Simple question… is a gun death any different than a knife death?..

83

sellnbama,
I didn’t go on a rant about Socialists countries. I merely responded to the diatribe of propertymanager. You don’t have to read my replies if you don’t want to. Telling me to “pack up my crap and move” is pretty darn childish.

I agree with you, in that gun rights had nothing to do with the Ft. Hood shootings. If a trained, permitted military person goes crazy and wants to shoot people, he or she probably will. It has happened before, soldiers have even gone crazy, and shot their comrades on the battlefield. It could have been in the cafeteria, a movie theater, where ever. Fortunately, it’s pretty rare. I started the post when the next day there was (probably copycat) another bunch of shootings in an office building, fortunately with a smaller death toll.

PosOutlook,

Yes, a gun death is different from a knife death. A gun death can take place at a great distance. The perpetrator can kill and maim multiple people in a matter of seconds, and the killer doesn’t even have to touch the victim. Doesn’t even have to get blood on his hands! Can kill without fighting! Can kill without a risk of being killed himself. A gun is way more lethal.

I know what you are trying to say: a death is a death. That is not logical. Gun deaths are so excessive because of the ease of the deed. You know this. A dead person is a dead person. But how they got there is another matter, and when you have an excess of thousands of dead people, we need to start dealing with this huge cost to our society. 34,000 Americans in ONE YEAR did not get dead by knives, sticks, stones. It was guns.

What’s interesting is that when our family was in England last year on vacation, there were newspaper headlines like, “Another teenager knifed!” There was huge concern over street violence in some neighborhoods. I remember thinking, “Thank God, at least it’s knives. If it were guns, there would be many more killed.”

I’m going to ask you all again–how can we lessen gun violence? What can our society do to effect this? Now we know that an excess of guns leads to more gun deaths, so how can we do this? What laws and measures would you like to see tried?

Furnishedowner

84

I’m going to ask you all again–how can we lessen gun violence? What can our society do to effect this? Now we know that an excess of guns leads to more gun deaths, so how can we do this? What laws and measures would you like to see tried?

Quote from FurnishedOwner.

…

Furnished, this is the main problem. We’ve already explains that gun laws are NOT the way to lessen gun violence. Why do you look for more Government to solve all our problems.

We know excess guns leads to more gun deaths? Uhm… what? You got any stats for that or are you just talking out of your ass? I think Texas would like a word with you.

The way to solve gun violece is with more guns. NO Amercan shoul be denied the right to carry a gun and defend themself. (Or have a limit on the amount of guns you can have)

We’ve went through this like a thousand times on this thread… yet your not understanding. Mike and PositiveOutlook have done a good job replying to this… why do you just… ask it again and again after getting good answers?

85
I'm going to ask you all again--how can we lessen gun violence? What can our society do to effect this?

Funny you should ask, because I have the answer. If you want to lessen gun violence - SEVERLY PUNISH THE CRIMINALS! This isn’t brain surgery FO, but you can’t seem to grasp it…or more likely, you know that is the answer but you socialists always want to coddle the criminals and therefore punishing the criminals simply isn’t acceptable to you.

Now we know that an excess of guns leads to more gun deaths, so how can we do this? What laws and measures would you like to see tried?

That’s ridiculous and you just made that up! Banning guns leads to more violent crime, NOT LESS! Look at what happened in England. When they banned guns, gun violence EXPLODED! I think it’s hilarious that you claim that it’s now diminished 3% (or whatever number you’re claiming). That’s a drop in the ocean compared to the huge increase they’ve experienced! When you ban guns, only criminals have guns!

The Khmer Rouge killed by millions, by every means. The Armenians (I saw the video, too) had firearms, but didn't use them. So how did that work out for them? Instead they gave them up.

We’re not giving our guns up here in the US and we WILL fight instead of allowing some tyrant to destroy the country and kill millions of people. Pacifists like you and your socialist buddies will always march peacefully to the gas chamber, but many Americans would rather die fighting (I know I would).

I am not a Socialist.

That’s interesting, because you continually espouse socialist policies and ideals. You appear to be for government control of everything and you are definitely for government taking away our constitutional rights. You also constantly defend socialist countries. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s probably a DUCK! Why not at least have the integrity to own up to what you are and proudly state that you’re a socialist!

Arming the Jews in Germany would not have helped them! They were up against the Wehrmacht, the SS and "Gott Mit Uns!" Nazi philosophy. Their only hope was to get out of the country when they saw the first signs that the rule of law had broken down.

Who says that arming the Jews wouldn’t have helped? If they were armed and were willing to fight, they may very well have changed history! At least they wouldn’t have marched like sheep into the gas chamber. They would have died with some dignity fighting and made the Nazis pay a huge price.

Property manager is worried sick about those vicious Socialist countries.

Nope, I am worried about you socialists destroying MY COUNTRY! I agree 100% with sellnbama - if you love the socialist countries so much - PACK YOUR BAGS AND MOVE! You can NOT have MY COUNTRY!

I do not want to put law-abiding citizens in jail for 5 years for having guns! I WANT TO PUT THE CRIMINALS IN JAIL FOR VIOLATING OUR NEW FEDERAL GUN LAWS. So we can get those scumbags off the street.

In other words, you want to create new gun laws that would make law abiding citizens criminals! Your thinking skills are so lacking that you can’t admit to yourself what actually needs to be done. Since you don’t understand, I’ll help you - what we need to do is PUNISH THE CRIMINALS using the laws we already have. YOU SOCIALISTS ARE PREVENTING THAT FROM THAT BEING DONE! I’ll refer back to my personal experience. I was the only witness to an attempted murder in January. the perpetrator of that crime is a convicted felon that has been arrested OVER 250 TIMES, BECAUSE YOU SOCIALISTS CODDLE CRIMINALS! If there was ANY justice in our country, this scumbag would have been sentenced to life (or death) after the first 100 crimes!!! Instead, he’s out on the streets stalking me and at some point he’s going to make a mistake and pull a knife, hammer, gun, or some other weapon. I think we all know what the result will be and IT IS YOUR FAULT FO - yours and all the other socialists in this country.

The problem has nothing to do with guns - the problem is that we don’t punish criminals!

We need to decrease gun violence.

I agree and the way to do that is SEVERLY PUNISH CRIMINALS (instead of coddling them).

We need to decrease the number of guns.

Wrong! When you take guns away from law abiding citizens, gun crime ALWAYS increases. When law abiding citizens CARRY weapons, violent crime decreases. Sorry if you don’t like the facts, but there they are.

An excessive number of guns, in the wrong hands, means excessive gun violence. This is indisputable.

I agree! So, the answer is to punish the criminals so that guns won’t be in the wrong hands. Not really that difficult to understand. Your answer which is to punish law abiding citizens will do NOTHING to lessen gun crime! Law abiding citizens don’t commit crimes.

Why do you look for more Government to solve all our problems.

Unfortunately, we all know the answer to that - BECAUSE SHE’S A SOCIALIST!

86

Furnishedowner,

“Yes, a gun death is different from a knife death. A gun death can take place at a great distance. The perpetrator can kill and maim multiple people in a matter of seconds, and the killer doesn’t even have to touch the victim. Doesn’t even have to get blood on his hands! Can kill without fighting! Can kill without a risk of being killed himself. A gun is way more lethal.”

Have you missed the MULTIPLE posting in Japan, England etc. where I showed you MULTIPLE deaths via knives? The only difference between a gun death and a knife death IS THE MEANS… the death would still be a death, so what DIFFERENCE does is make if it was a gun, knife, bat or hands? They are still DEAD… the majority of gun deaths are by suicide, but you somehow think that putting all the burdens on LAW-ABIDING gun owners will stop them from killing themselves… I honestly don’t get your thinking on this…


“I know what you are trying to say: a death is a death. That is not logical. Gun deaths are so excessive because of the ease of the deed. You know this. A dead person is a dead person. But how they got there is another matter, and when you have an excess of thousands of dead people, we need to start dealing with this huge cost to our society. 34,000 Americans in ONE YEAR did not get dead by knives, sticks, stones. It was guns.”

What is interesting is that you defined “excess deaths” earlier as above 1200 per year… ALL deaths are tragic and excessive, but some deaths are necessary also…

It is ALREADY a federal offense for a felon to use a gun. As has already been noted via the Supreme Court, CRIMINALS cannot be forced to incriminate themselves by registering their firearms, and they CANNOT buy them legally, so they will either buy an ILLEGAL GUN or STEAL a legal one to use ILLEGALLY… NONE of what you proposed can STOP this so the ONLY ONES who pay ALL THE COSTS are the LAW-ABIDING gun owners… are you disputing this?

Criminals will CONTINUE to ILLEGALLY use guns for crime BECAUSE they KNOW that they will not get any SERIOUS time… So by being lenient, coddling them in jail with TV, Internet, weight rooms, etc… as well as, not using the death penalty, the deterrent factor DISAPPEARS and they view it as a “cost of doing business”…

87

http://www2.nbc4i.com/cmh/news/local/article/armed_man_enters_bar_robs_patrons/25054/

There’s obviously something wrong with this link, but here are texts of the article

[b]"The suspect pointed the gun at the bartender and patrons, ordered everyone to the ground and to empty their pockets before demanding money from the bartender, police said.

During the robbery, the suspect fired a second shot into the ceiling."[/b]

How is this possible? It is ILLEGAL in Ohio to carry a gun into a bar. Maybe if FO and the socialists passed another law saying that they really really mean it that you can’t carry guns into bars, this wouldn’t have happened!

[b]"The suspect is described as a black male, 5’8” tall, weighing 150 pounds.

He was wearing a black or dark gray hooded sweatshirt with white lettering on the front."[/b]

I think that any time someone from the black community (THAT HAS BEEN DEVESTATED BY THE SOCIALISTS AND THEIR ENTITLEMENT POLICIES) is involved in a crime, that we should arrest a socialist and throw them in jail! This policy is in step with FO’s idea of punishing the innocent and coddling the criminals. What do you think FO?

88

There are the same laws here that you aren’t suppose to carry your gun into a bar even with a CC permit.

However, I figure, if I NEED my guy, then that is the only time anyone will know I have it, and then, I care more about my life than about the law. The truth is, I always have my gun on unless I have to go through a metal detector, like the courthouse or airport. And there have been times in the courthouse elevator I really wished I had it on!

I figure the chances of you needing a gun are slim, but are a bit greater in places like banks and bars

89

John,
Totally with you on that one,mine’s on me all the time also.Our C/C law is kinda goofy to me,it says you’re not supposed to have it at public events.Once you step outta your house is’nt everything else a “public event”?I figure I went to the trouble to register myself,that alone should be enough to over rule the POS who I had to shoot(who was’nt registered,probably stolen gun also).So I don’t pay too much attention to the grey areas of the C/C permit.

90

Just for FurnishedOwner (and any other misguided socialists):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_YTM_eAWnQ

91

Yesterday, November 23rd, was the National Day of Outrage Against Gun Violence. People protested in 30 cities against our epidemic of gun violence.

We are now 10 years past Columbine. 10 years of having the radicalized gun lobby continue to protest common sense gun control. We continue with the same patchwork of state and Federal laws that don’t work.

Just as the “Myth of Gun Control” video proved–you can’t have gun control in one small area, like Washington DC, as it is useless.

If we don’t have universal laws putting away people with illegal guns, the carnage will continue.

It took Federal laws to get the automobile industry to create safer, more crash-worthy cars. The automobile manufacturers fought it.

It took Federal laws to get Civil Rights all across the country. Southern states fought it.

It’s taken years of proposed legislation to get National affordable health care. Conservatives and the health insurance industry are fighting it.

I predict that we WILL get Federal laws to control gun violence. Conservatives and the NRA will fight it.

It will happen because the Canadian Ottawa Study proved that high numbers of guns belonging to a citizenry produces high numbers of gun deaths.

It will happen because people like me have HAD ENOUGH OF GUN VIOLENCE. We are millions and millions and we will vote in tough new laws.

A house two blocks from mine, in our sleepy little burg, was shot up last night. Riddled with bullets. For no reason. Everyone is mad about this. Middle America is getting close to the tipping point on gun crime.

Gun crime is not going to go down, the sheer number of guns guarantees that. We can’t continue down the same road much longer. IT IS NOT WORKING. It is time for some Federal laws that will curb this madness.

Furnishedowner

92
Just as the "Myth of Gun Control" video proved--you can't have gun control in one small area, like Washington DC, as it is useless.

…or entire countries like England, unless you want gun violence to EXPLODE (when only criminals have guns).

If we don't have universal laws putting away people with illegal guns, the carnage will continue.

We already have universal laws against gun violence, however you socialists want to coddle criminals instead of throwing them in jail. The perfect example is the felon that has been stalking me. In the past few days, he was sentenced for felony theft of drugs and drug possession. The trafficking charge was plea bargained away! He has been arrested over 250 times and has several felony convictions, including assaulting a police officer. His sentence…drum roll please…3 years community control (i.e. probation). THANK YOU CRIMINAL CODDLING SOCIALISTS!!!

It took Federal laws to get Civil Rights all across the country. Southern states fought it.

…and then the socialists literally DESTROYED the black community with their entitlement programs.

I predict that we WILL get Federal laws to control gun violence. Conservatives and the NRA will fight it.

Federal laws won’t control gun violence because you socialists aren’t willing to punish criminals! Furthermore, don’t look now, but gun rights are expanding with 48 states now having some form of concealed carry!!! The Supreme Court has ruled that the 2nd Amendment is an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT (not a right for militias or any of the other crap you socialists have been pushing). Furthermore, if you socialists ever come for our guns in the U.S., there IS going to be shooting. I’m not giving up my God-given rights without a FIGHT!

It will happen because people like me have HAD ENOUGH OF GUN VIOLENCE. We are millions and millions and we will vote in tough new laws.

A BLATANT LIE! If you socialists were tired of gun violence, you would PUNISH THE CRIMINALS instead of coddling them!

A house two blocks from mine, in our sleepy little burg, was shot up last night. Riddled with bullets. For no reason. Everyone is mad about this. Middle America is getting close to the tipping point on gun crime.

You’re wrong - middle America is PAST the tipping point and WE ARE ARMING OURSELVES AND FIGHTING BACK AGAINST THE CRIMINALS!!! That’s our right and you socialists WILL NOT TAKE THAT AWAY!

My suggestion FO is to move to Europe - you’d be a lot happier there!

93

Furnishedowner,

“Yesterday, November 23rd, was the National Day of Outrage Against Gun Violence. People protested in 30 cities against our epidemic of gun violence.”

Juxtapose your 30 cities of gun control fanatics, which are planned ANNUALLY to the over 750 cities for the Tea Parties… which were NOT planned, and you can see which ones are more interested in maintaining their freedoms…


“We are now 10 years past Columbine. 10 years of having the radicalized gun lobby continue to protest common sense gun control. We continue with the same patchwork of state and Federal laws that don’t work.”

I disagree… they WORK when they are APPLIED… but if you are not going to ENFORCE the laws… MORE laws don’t make a difference… All you are doing is putting burdens on the LAW-ABIDING gun owners and taking their freedom, time AND money in the process, NOT the CRIMINALS… BTW, the CRIMINALS don’t follow the EXISTING FEDERAL LAWS, what makes you think they will follow ADDITIONAL Federal laws???

“Just as the “Myth of Gun Control” video proved–you can’t have gun control in one small area, like Washington DC, as it is useless.”

A little Freudian slip there, Furnishedowner… you SAY you don’t want to take guns from people, but you use Washington DC, which showed CRIMINAL ACTIVITY EXPLODE after guns were taken away… This DEMONSTRATES that CRIMINAL ACTIVITY will increase in areas that this is done, just like in England. YOUR solution is not to ENFORCE EXISTING LAWS against CRIMINALS, but instead IMPOSE burdens and TAXATION on LAW-ABIDING gun owners… makes all sorts of sense… :rolleyes

“If we don’t have universal laws putting away people with illegal guns, the carnage will continue. It took Federal laws to get the automobile industry to create safer, more crash-worthy cars. The automobile manufacturers fought it.”

Furnishedowner, is it your position that there are not currently FEDERAL LAWS that make it illegal for felons to use guns???

“It took Federal laws to get Civil Rights all across the country. Southern states fought it.”

The problem with your analogy is that treating everyone equal is laid out in the Declaration of Independence, which were backed up by the Constitution, as is INDIVIDUAL gun ownership, as was confirmed by the Supreme Court… this puts the onus on gun control fanatics to give LAW-ABIDING gun owners a reason THEY should have to be burdened when THEY don’t commit the crimes… the CRIMINALS DO!


“It’s taken years of proposed legislation to get National affordable health care. Conservatives and the health insurance industry are fighting it.”

Your problem here is it is not only “conservatives and the heatlh insurance industry” fighting it, the MAJORITY of Americans DO NOT WANT what is currently being proposed… The Dems OWN the government right now, why do you think they are having so much trouble getting it through when they have FILLIBUSTER-PROOF majorities? Could it be the same reason Obama’s approval ratings are dropping like a stone while he promotes this more and more? The Dem’s in Congress see this… People want change, just NOT what the Dems want… The drops in the polls are BECAUSE they are IGNORING the people on this…

“It will happen because the Canadian Ottawa Study proved that high numbers of guns belonging to a citizenry produces high numbers of gun deaths.”

Oh, I see, the CANDIAN study… never mind all the OTHER studies done right here in America that PROVE what you want DOESN’T do what you want it to… as one example, there has not been ONE peer-reviewed study to show gun-buy-back programs do what you want (i.e. - get guns from CRIMINALS), and that they are the LEAST LIKELY to be used in crimes, yet YOUR SOLUTION is to do MORE of what doesn’t work, at a cost to the taxpayers…

“I predict that we WILL get Federal laws to control gun violence. Conservatives and the NRA will fight it. It will happen because people like me have HAD ENOUGH OF GUN VIOLENCE. We are millions and millions and we will vote in tough new laws.”

Millions and Millions??? Maybe… but there are HUNDREDS of MILLIONS who feel the opposite… besides, your “millions and millions” don’t vote in new laws… Your representatives do… And unfortunately for you, with the Supreme Court backing up our position, and the states backing up our position with more and more adding CCW laws (and you’ll note that the Dems currently have the MAJORITY of governorships), along with the TENS OF MILLIONS of LAW-ABDING gun owners, and that there are those willing to DEFEND their rights, the incidents of home-grown terrorism, the likelyhood of what you want has been dramatically reduced… If they can’t get it through with ALL THE POWER they currently have, what makes you think that your “nillions and millions” can get it through when they are a FRACTION of LAW-ABIDING gun owners???

“A house two blocks from mine, in our sleepy little burg, was shot up last night. Riddled with bullets. For no reason. Everyone is mad about this. Middle America is getting close to the tipping point on gun crime.”

No reason?? They just decided to shoot up a house? Now, that means that they CAUGHT the person(s) who did it, and were able to determine this as the reason, right? No? Then it is SPECULATION on your part, and CRIMINALS are usually the ones who shoot up a house, and it usually involves drugs and/or gangs… Otherwise, it is an emotional response and one that does NOT address the problem… kinda’ like your “solutions”…

“Gun crime is not going to go down, the sheer number of guns guarantees that. We can’t continue down the same road much longer. IT IS NOT WORKING. It is time for some Federal laws that will curb this madness.”

Name SPECIFICALLY the federal law you want to enact that will affect CRIMINALS…

94

Gun crime in England is DOWN, propertymanager. Their gun control IS WORKING. It is one of the countries in the world where you are least likely to be killed by gun violence. I know you wish it wasn’t so, but you can’t manipulate that fact.

You keep suggesting that I move to another country. I have lived in seven countries, so I have comparison-shopped; I have chosen. Except for inadequate health care and excessive gun violence, and a couple of other things, I am happy here.

Now I would like to suggest that YOU, pm, move to another country. You sound very unhappy.

I was feeling sorry for your poor wife. You took her to San Diego for a holiday and a nice concert, stayed in a 5-star hotel, and yet you were angry the whole time. Those druggies! Chanting Hare Krishnas! Scumbags! Panhandlers!
It was sort of like you were in a 3rd World country, wasn’t it? When I am uncomfortable in a strange 3rd World country I take a cab to get to the sights. But you toughed it out, walking right downtown.

I hope those San Diego scumbags did not totally ruin your wife’s vacation. That she didn’t have to sit across from you in a nice restaurant, 3 times a day, on vacation, and hear you go off on Criminal-Coddling Socialists! Kalifornia! Furnishedowner! Liberals!
That would surely have ruined her mood. Could even have brought on one of those dangerous Mom-Pop rages that gun violence fuels into.

There has to be a country where you could be happy. Where you can be the vigilante that you want to be. You could be a warlord, drive around and shoot every person who crosses you, who looks like a “scumbag”. Right now I can only think of perhaps Sudan, but others on this site may know of others.

Furnishedowner

95

PM loves with this country is SUPPOSED to stand for, and your DAMN RIGHT WE ARE UNHAPPY with what people like YOU are doing with this country.

Furnished… how is halth care/gun laws Constitutional??? If you just answer THAT I will shut up. IF you cant answer that, then I suggest you change your views and stop being a tyrant.

96
You keep suggesting that I move to another country. I have lived in seven countries, so I have comparison-shopped; I have chosen. Except for inadequate health care and excessive gun violence, and a couple of other things, I am happy here.

What a joke! You are happy here except for everything this country stands for. You are happy here IF the socialists take away our constitutional rights and turn our country into the United Socialist States of America. You are happy here if you take the money from those of us that are successful and give it to deadbeats and scumbags. You are happy here provided the government takes care of your every need and coddles criminals. Please do us all a favor and move to Europe!

You are right, I am VERY unhappy that you socialists are trying to DESTROY THE VERY FABRIC OF OUR COUNTRY! I am VERY unhappy that my children and grandchildren will be forced into a lower standard of living because you selfish socialists are stealing their future. I am VERY unhappy that the socialists are perpetrating the global warming hoax (but I’m very happy that the hoax is being brought to light right before our eyes this week). Hundreds of thousands of true Americans (as opposed to you cowardly socialists) have died to preserve our freedom and I’m mad as hell that you’re trying to take it away!!! You and your socialist friends are a disgrace to our country and should move (or be deported).

Funny that you brought up my wife. Did I mention that she’s getting her concealed carry license next month? I know that I didn’t mention that she is an excellent shot with both a shotgun and handgun. She’s even been in a trap shooting league and owns her own shotgun and handgun. She was as shocked as I was at the disgraceful conditions in the land of socialism. Believe it or not, it is NOT NORMAL to see druggies and other homeless scumbags on every corner here in Ohio. It’s just one more example of the success of your socialistic programs - homeless deadbeats and scumbags everywhere in the land of socialism. Good job.

Finally, gun crime is only down slightly in England after it EXPLODED when guns were banned. Obviously, it couldn’t just keep getting worse and worse, or there wouldn’t be a single person left alive. Gun control didn’t work in England; it hasn’t worked in Chicago; it didn’t work in Nazi Germany; didn’t work in China; didn’t work in the Soviet Union; hasn’t worked in Washington D.C. (the murder capital of the US) - IT DOESN’T WORK ANYWHERE! Gun control is a total failure. The answer to crime is to punish the criminals - something that is not politically correct for you socialists.

97

Furnishedowner,

Furnishedowner - “Gun crime is not going to go down, the sheer number of guns guarantees that. We can’t continue down the same road much longer. IT IS NOT WORKING. It is time for some Federal laws that will curb this madness.”

Positiveoutlook - “Name SPECIFICALLY the federal law you want to enact that will affect CRIMINALS…”

Well, as we can see, you HAVE NO federal law to enact that actually affects the CRIMINALS, so it brings your whole premise of not wanting to take peoples guns away into question… If not, tell us what federal law ABOVE WHAT ALREADY EXISTS for CRIMINALS will actually affect CRIMIINALS…

98

propertymanager,
Another anti-Socialist rant from you. How convenient it must be to blame every perceived wrong onto the “Socialists”. This eliminates the need for you to do ANY critical thinking of your own, whatsoever.

How far does this go? If your trash pickup is late, it is the Socialists? If your Chicken McNuggets go up in price, the Socialists? Who ARE these nefarious Socialists?! You ever heard of a psychological trait called, “projection”? Where your own shortcomings…

I am a Registered Democrat. Used to be an Independent, then I realized that I really was voting Democratic every time, so why not just be it, the shoe fit most of the time. But you continue to call me a Socialist. I suppose I could call you a Vigilante Anarchist in every other sentence, too, but it seems so futile.

What is clear is that this real estate site is mainly populated by ultra-right conservatives. People who rant. People who don’t want to try to solve problems, or even debate them! People who blame all problems on others. The ultra-conservative do-nothings. JUST LEAVE IT ALL ALONE.

I am for CHANGE. I will vote CHANGE every time I see our country veering off the constitutional path. I am for LIFE, for not being shot like tens of thousand of others in a drive-by shooting, a mall rampage, an accidental homicide.

PosOutlook,
I proposed a whole slew of possible laws that could affect criminals. Just read back in this thread.
I especially like what they did in England. If you are in possession of an unlicensed gun, you go to jail for 5 years. That should work.
That should stop the car full of gang-bangers, when they are pulled over by the police. They will have an unlicensed, probably stolen gun. The whole car full of those hoods can now be sent up for 5 years.
That stolen gun is then removed from the street. Your own gun, at home, is licensed. You are free to defend yourself with it. That law should impact the criminals in a major way.

Furnishedowner

99
Who ARE these nefarious Socialists?!

YOU ARE! And every person in this country who coddles criminals while expecting government to control every aspect of our lives!

I proposed a whole slew of possible laws that could affect criminals. Just read back in this thread. I especially like what they did in England. If you are in possession of an unlicensed gun, you go to jail for 5 years. That should work.

What a joke! You socialists aren’t willing to punish criminals for violating laws that are currently on the books. So, why would we think that you would actually enforce any new laws that you passed! It’s just a perverted joke!

100

Furnishedowner,

"People who blame all problems on others. "

FO… the problem here is you are blaming the LAW-ABIDING gun owners and not the criminals, and your only answer is more government intrusion on LAW-ABIDING gun owners… NONE of what you have suggested TOUCHES the CRIMINALS… show us how it does…


“I proposed a whole slew of possible laws that could affect criminals. Just read back in this thread.”

Yes, and NONE of them affect the CRIMINALS… only the LAW-ABIDING gun owners… how don’t you see this at this point?..

“I especially like what they did in England. If you are in possession of an unlicensed gun, you go to jail for 5 years. That should work.”

Now we get to the heart of it… on the one hand, you say you are not interested in taking away the guns, but then you say you like what England did, which is take away the guns… which is it?

“That should stop the car full of gang-bangers, when they are pulled over by the police. They will have an unlicensed, probably stolen gun. The whole car full of those hoods can now be sent up for 5 years.”

Uhm… it is ALREADY illegal for them to have ILLEGAL guns and using them in ILLEGAL activity… and it does NOT stop them now… they TELL us that they DON’T CARE about the laws… this is documented and why EXISTING federal laws do not stop them… If they fail the NCIS (which 56% of those who apply are felons do - with 92% of the checks being done via phone), they will just buy it ILLEGALLY… which is what they do NOW… so, try again…

“That stolen gun is then removed from the street. Your own gun, at home, is licensed. You are free to defend yourself with it. That law should impact the criminals in a major way.”

First, you ASSUME it is a stolen gun, and not a black-market illegal gun… We are in agreement that heavier sentences would potentially have an impact, but unfortunately, the sentences are rarely carried to their full term (lost deterrent) and are also only part of the solution… the MAIN problem is sociological… broken families, boys without fathers or male influences, being born into one our government inner cities (3 out of the top 5 violent crime cities are in strict gun control areas - explain that), etc… The guys who end up in prison for gun crimes will most likely fall into the same situation when they get out…

So your above solution is really a non-solution as you are expecting CRIMINALS to obey the law when they IGNORE the EXISTING ONES NOW… buy-backs are a waste of time and money as they are the LEAST LIKELY to be used in any crime, and is only a “feel good” program…

To me, if heavier sentences were to have any meaning, the terms would have to be carried out, and the only shorted time would be 6 months before the final date, but it would have to be coupled with making prison a place they DO NOT want to return to… as it stands now, it has to many comforts… It needs to be an environment where they have to really think… Man, do I really want to return to that place??? Couple it with opportunities to learn a trade, or get an education… but it has to be earned… They should have to WORK to pay off their financial debt while in prison… with the emphasis that THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE for them…

All that said, there are people who will NEVER be mainstreamed no matter what we do… until we are ready to remove the COMFORTS that people on the outside don’t enjoy (free gym membership, cable/satellite TV, free food, free internet, free medical care, etc.), it REMOVES the deterrent factor…