More Gun Insanity

Random Ramblings
101

P.S. - So Furnishedowner, to be clear, your FEDERAL LAW solution to CRIMINALS getting guns is a 5-year prison sentence after they ALREADY have the illegal guns… is that right? Even though they IGNORE the laws that they use the illegal guns for, which carry heavier prison terms (i.e. - gun death)… so how does that work??? If they don’t care about a long prison term for KILLING SOMEONE, why do you think they will care MORE about a 5-year prison term???

On top of that… what do you then do to suicides who don’t finish the job… 5 years prison??? After all, the MAJORITY (twice the number of CRIMINAL gun deaths) are suicides…

We’ve been telling you all along, we think that the SOLUTION is that the CRIMINALS should have to punished, NOT the LAW-ABIDING gun owners… you are just not listening and want to punish the wrong people… Came across something interesting and I thought of you…

"For instance, in Thomas Jefferson’s “Commonplace Book,” a quote from Cesare Beccaria reads, “laws that forbid the carrying of arms … disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes … Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

102

Both propertymanager and PosOutlook go on at length about how criminals are not obeying the current laws about guns.

That is my point exactly. THE CURRENT LAWS DON’T WORK!

You can’t have a gun-free zone in a high-crime area if guns are freely available nearby. It makes no sense. Of course it won’t work.

Gun buy-backs DO work; the Oakland experience was an example. But they have got to be extended and monitored. They can’t just be a place for gun dealers to dump unwanted merchandise.

I ask for a national dialogue on how to lessen gun violence. I ask for NEW FEDERAL LAWS, Universal Laws, that get rid of the patchwork of state and community laws that aren’t working.

We’re a nation of smart people that have done a lot of incredible things. Surely we can find common ground that will allow citizens to have firearms in a safer manner.

You can’t drive an unlicensed, unregistered vehicle. You must have a Driver’s License as well, you must have demonstrated driving proficiency and knowledge of driving laws. You pay a fee every year for your registered vehicle. You must have liability insurance or proof of means. Yet not one of you is complaining about these common-sense laws that keep us all safer.

I am asking for the same. Carry a licensed, registered gun. Pass a test demonstrating knowledge of how to use it, and of gun laws. Pay a fee for the ministering of this service.

Many of you have concealed-carry permits. Could we not extend this licensing to ALL guns?

What I am looking for is a means to jail criminals. Criminals who commit crimes with their unlicensed, unregistered guns. Let’s put them away for gun crimes.

The prisons today are heinous enough. Ask anyone who has been there. We don’t have to return to Medieval Torture chambers. The deterrants in prisons are the OTHER PRISONERS. Like being locked up with a bunch of pit bulls who can turn on you at any time, for any reason. Prisoners are not being coddled; no one wants to go back.

I want to get criminals off the streets. I want the whole nation to wake up to the fact that we can’t carry on like this–with this level of gun violence. I want every hoodlum to know that carrying that unlicensed, unregistered gun is going to get him serious jail time. Guaranteed.

Furnishedowner

103

Furnishedowner,

“That is my point exactly. THE CURRENT LAWS DON’T WORK!”

So how does enacting YOUR solution of 5 years for a “unlicensed” gun, act as any more of a deterrent of MURDER charges with a gun, which murder itself carries a stiffer sentence???

“You can’t have a gun-free zone in a high-crime area if guns are freely available nearby. It makes no sense. Of course it won’t work.”

Guns will ALWAYS be available in ALL areas, whether they are purchased legally OR illegally… the difference is that CRIMINALS now know they have LESS a chance of being opposed by a victim, which is WHY 3 out of the top 5 cities with violent crimes have STRICT gun control… how do you EXPLAIN this??? SUPPORT your position with more than just opinion…

This gives MORE insight to what to REALLY want… England-law… no guns for anyone…


“Surely we can find common ground that will allow citizens to have firearms in a safer manner.”

It is NOT the LAW-ABIDING gun owners that are the problem, it is the CRIMINALS…


“You can’t drive an unlicensed, unregistered vehicle. You must have a Driver’s License as well, you must have demonstrated driving proficiency and knowledge of driving laws. You pay a fee every year for your registered vehicle. You must have liability insurance or proof of means. Yet not one of you is complaining about these common-sense laws that keep us all safer.”

Furnishedowner, driving is a PRIVILEGE and NOT a right… there is a MAJOR difference… we have a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to bear arms… as far as insurance goes, I believe you pay HIGHER insurances (home, life, etc.) if you own a gun and it is disclosed…

“Many of you have concealed-carry permits. Could we not extend this licensing to ALL guns?”

This is probably the BEST way to demonstrate the inanity of your position… how does forcing licensing, taxes, permits, etc… STOP CRIMINALS from obtaining ILLEGAL guns, whether it is a STOLEN registered gun or a BLACK-MARKET gun??? ANSWER the question, if you want to have a SERIOUS discussion on this…

“I am asking for the same. Carry a licensed, registered gun. Pass a test demonstrating knowledge of how to use it, and of gun laws. Pay a fee for the ministering of this service”.

First, SHOW US how this stops CRIMINALS from killing with guns… if it does NOT, WHAT IS THE POINT??? The two highest amounts of gun deaths are CRIMINAL gun deaths and suicide… So how does this address either??? Answer the question or stop pretending you are serious about this…

“The prisons today are heinous enough. Ask anyone who has been there. We don’t have to return to Medieval Torture chambers. The deterrants in prisons are the OTHER PRISONERS. Like being locked up with a bunch of pit bulls who can turn on you at any time, for any reason. Prisoners are not being coddled; no one wants to go back.”

LOL… and this is EXACTLY what we mean when we say you want to coddle the criminals… WHY should they enjoy, and US PAY FOR TO BOOT, all the amenities that ALOT of hard-working people don’t??? FREE gym membership, FREE healthcare, FREE Internet, FREE satellite/cable TV, etc… while they are serving time for a crime THEY committed??? REMOVE these AMENITIES to INCREASE the deterrent…

“I want to get criminals off the streets. I want the whole nation to wake up to the fact that we can’t carry on like this–with this level of gun violence. I want every hoodlum to know that carrying that unlicensed, unregistered gun is going to get him serious jail time. Guaranteed.”

We are very close to an actual agreement on this… unfortunately, you don’t want them to actually serve real time… you want to give them all the comforts of home PLUS all the extra’s… They ALREADY will serve MORE time for a gun death than what you are proposing… and it does NOT stop them now…

104

I want them to serve time for just having that unlicensed gun. Not just for a gun death! I want STIFFER penalties. Getting unlicensed guns off the streets will lessen gun crimes. It’s easy access to guns that causes gun deaths. It’s the Liquor Store hold-up with a gun. It’s the angry teenager with a gun. It’s the jealous husband with a gun.

Putting someone in prison is not coddling them. You have got to be kidding. No, you don’t remove health care from the prison population. It would be barbaric and beneath us as a society. The prisoners are not getting Botox, they get insulin and antibiotics. Prisons are hell as they are. I am talking about your average prison, not where Martha Stewart or white-collar criminals are incarcerated.

Furnishedowner

105

Furnishedowner,


“I want them to serve time for just having that unlicensed gun. Not just for a gun death! I want STIFFER penalties.”

The problem with what you want is that a person, whose ONLY CRIME is an unlicensed gun, gets 5 years… that’s just plain STUPID that he would get 5 years for having something he has a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to in the first place…

What difference would the additional 5 years make anyway… they’ll just get out in half the time anyway BECAUSE they are coddled…


“Getting unlicensed guns off the streets will lessen gun crimes.”

So your thinking is that getting unlicensed guns will stop them from acquiring illegal ones anyway? What do you base this on? The reason I ask is that the FBI reports that 56% of applicants for background checks are felons. Now they went through that process, what makes you think they will not find a way to get a gun? They WILL find a way, if that is what they want… which is WHY their is still gun deaths in England a decade after they removed ALL guns…


“It’s easy access to guns that causes gun deaths. It’s the Liquor Store hold-up with a gun. It’s the angry teenager with a gun. It’s the jealous husband with a gun.”

What makes you think having the guns licensed would have STOPPED the liquor store hold-up with an UNLICENSED or STOLEN gun, or the angry teenager OR the jealous husband??? Licensing would have done NOTHING to prevent any of those… this is what you don’t seem to be getting…

“Putting someone in prison is not coddling them. You have got to be kidding.”

It is if you are giving them ALL the amenities that they DON’T GET on the outside… Free gym membership, FREE healthcare, FREE Dental, Free Internet, Free cable/satellite TV, etc…

“No, you don’t remove health care from the prison population. It would be barbaric and beneath us as a society.”

Who said anything about removing it… I said they have to EARN it through work while in prison…


“The prisoners are not getting Botox, they get insulin and antibiotics.”

WRONG… there are cases of sex-change operations, plastic surgery, etc… on top of this, the CRIMINALS GET what people who are on the outside STRUGGLE to get, partly because they are paying for CRIMINALS luxuries through higher taxes… They cost taxpayer BILLIONS EVERY YEAR…

“Prisons are hell as they are. I am talking about your average prison, not where Martha Stewart or white-collar criminals are incarcerated.”

Obviously not hell enough… they have LOST their deterrent factor…

106

Thank GOD Indiana doesnt have Socialist laws like FO wants.

My dad is getting me a nice handgun for Christmas. In Indiana, you dont even have to register your guns at all. As long as you pass the background check, your good.

Cant carry until im 21(when I do turn 21, i plan on carrying), but as long as the gun stays inside my house, it doesnt have to be registered.

If I want to take in my car, the gun must be completley seperated from the ammo, in different locations. If I get caught with a loaded gun in my car (since im 21), i get a Felony.

I personally am happy with Indianas gun laws, although ide like to see the carry age be brought down from 21 to 18.

Do you see a problem with this FO? I bet you do.

107
I want to get criminals off the streets. I want the whole nation to wake up to the fact that we can't carry on like this--with this level of gun violence. I want every hoodlum to know that carrying that unlicensed, unregistered gun is going to get him serious jail time. Guaranteed.

Then instead of thinking of ways to punish honest, law-abiding citizens, you should actually do something to improve things. I can think of several things you could do that would actually help.

  1. Work in your state to ensure that criminals actually SERVE THEIR SENTENCES. There are already plenty of gun laws on the books to punish people who illegally use firearms. The problem is that our criminal justice program has completely broken down and criminals are no longer seriously punished. What would YOU be willing to do to ensure that criminals are actually punished? Would you be willing to have serious punishments for serious crimes? Would you be willing to take tv out of prison? Would you be willing to take weights and basketball courts out of prison? What exactly would you be willing to do to ensure people don’t want to go to prison?

  2. Work in your state to elect judges that will severely punish criminals that are involved in gun crime.

  3. Do some SERIOUS research into gun violence and learn the truth about it. THINK about the REALITY of the situation, instead of always buying into the lies and socialist propaganda. Find out what happens when cities, states, and countries ban guns (GUN VIOLENCE GOES UP). Find out what happens when citizens carry guns - violent crime goes down.

  4. Quit railing against something you know absolutely nothing about. Go to a gun range and learn to shoot. You’ll soon see that guns DON’T KILL ANYONE! If they did, it would be a massacre in millions of American homes. Believe it or not, I have several guns and not a single one of them has even threatened me, let alone shot me. The just stay where they are put, without complaint, without threats, without ‘going off’. LOL!

108

Propertymanager,

What I find interesting is that Furnishedowner somehow thinks that a criminal is more apt to be deterred by a FEDERAL law prison sentence than a state law prison sentence, even though there are ALREADY federal laws regarding guns. Her solution is always FEDERAL… taking power from the states and handing it over to the federal government. Then add on top of it, a registration and licensing of all the LAW-ABIDING gun owners who have ALREADY passed a background check…

Anyone with any sense of history knows the danger in this… whether she recognizes this danger or not is NO REASON for others to give up their rights…

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf

In a US Department Of Justice (DOJ) Survey of Inmates in State and Federal Correctional Facilities… [i][b]"During the offense that brought them to prison, 15% of State inmates and 13% of Federal inmates carried a handgun; about 2% had a military-style semiautomatic gun or machine gun.

Among prisoners carrying a firearm during their crime, 40% of State inmates and 56% of Federal inmates received a sentence enhancement because of the firearm."[/b][/i

FURNISHEDOWNER,

From the above DOJ site - “On average, State inmates possessing a firearm received sentences of 18 years, while those without a weapon had an average sentence of 12 years.”

So the STATES ENHANCED their sentences by SIX (6) years for people possessing a firearm and it STILL doesn’t work… mind you, this is 20% LONGER than you wanted in your FEDERAL law…

Like WE SAID, the laws are ALREADY on the books, they are just not being carried out to their term, have a NEGATIVE effect on their deterrent value…

So, the question is… NOW what?.. 10 years?