Hello Everyone,
Carlton Sheets helped me get started in real estate also. But, my grandfather was a real estate investor and my mom was a loan processor at a title company.
The reason why I ordered his material was so that I can get an idea of how things work nowadays. That was in 1998. I must admit that I learned some things from his teachings.
Mea Culpa!
I totally missed this when I went to the link that started this thread, but if you click on a name you are interested in, it takes you to the reason why the name was reported, and who reported it with their complaint. Some of them even have email addresses.
This was something I commented on above in a response to Jeff, and I thought it was a defect in these types of lists. But I had just scrolled down the page to read the names. I didn’t see any reference to clicking on the names for further information.
I only read a couple of them, starting with Robert Abalos and Robert G. Allen, but I see why they made the list if everything reported is true. It would make me hesitate to get involved with them as well.
I read through some of those names. I saw an example of how someone scammed the public.
I also did not see anyone break down the plan or program and say why it was bull or why it did not or would not work. I did see a lot of whining about cheating and lying with little evidence to back it up.
I still say the failure doesn’t lie with the program.
If 300 people go to the same college and take the same courses, will they all have the same level of success? Do the poor performers get to run around and say that college sucks because they didn’t train me right? Or maybe it was because they partied and didn;t get out of bed and go to class.
Valgolas, you don’t have to back down from your original post. That reporter beating on Allen gave no proof or tangible stories. One complaint about a guru will overshadow 10 success stories.
AND ONE MORE THING!!!
I would start a website that supported gurus and listed success stories… BUT NO ONE WOULD GO THERE! Why???
Because people love to hear about other people’s misery and bad experiences. It makes their miserable lives seem more tolerable.
Ok I give up, now. Thank you for warning us about the gurus.
IMHO…
It’s marketing… a lot of the info is the same thing. The same thing you can get at a library, the same thing you can get at a book store and the same thing you can get here by listing.
There is a modicum of truth and fact there, if not, I don’t care how slick the salesperson is, it wouldn’t last.
Imagin a seminar that teaches you how to breath underwater, “the fish do it and so can you!” If it is packaged fancy enough someone will shell out HEC (hard earned cash) to buy it… only to see their investment drowned.
Seems to me the game is find something that is true that someone has had some success at doing, package it in way that it looks new or different then charge big bucks for it. And if someone buys it and actually works it and succeeds…well, that’s one genuine testimonial to go with the others that the team thought up!
Just my 2c’s
To reitterate what KD said,
Look at it like a restaurant review. If you’ve eaten at a restaurant and you had a wonderful time you probably tell a couple of people. If you had a HORRIBLE time you would tell 10 people. That’s just what people do. The story is more ‘interesting’ to people if it’s bad. Why is that? Who knows, but it’s a fact.
That being said, if you had a favorite restaurant that you’ve gone to for years but someone said they had the worst time ever there, would you suddenly stop going?
I totally agree with JeffinCT and some of the others who have defended some of the GURUs. It is easy for people to slam them, but if students apply some of the strategies and set their goals, follow the plans, etc. they can and should succeed.
I remember a guy at lunch at my last job asked me how much I spent on all of my “get rich quick real estate stuff”. I told him that I usually spent anywhere from $3K to $10K per year. That guy told me I was crazy and that I should be putting the money into a mutual fund. I have purchased Carleton Sheet’s program about 3 times now, Ron LeGrand’s info and Scott Scheels stuff. I have not been as diligent as I could be, but make a pretty good living doing real estate full time now.
Give some of these programs a chance and apply some of the strategies that seem to work best.
Never stop learning.
To your success!!
True, Blue. (Sorry…I couldn’t resist.) The right education is an investment that pays a good return for life.
It has been said often, “If you think education is expensive, you should really hate the price of ignorance.”
Or as Ol’ Ben Franklin wrote, “Empty the coins of your purse into your mind, and your mind will fill your purse with coins.”
But I still have doubts about some of the so called “gurus”. We have had some of them come into town and teach things that are clearly illegal in our state, and other states as well, for that matter. If the attendees took them at face value and implemented what they were teaching, they would find themselves in deep do-do before long. They would then pay for a really expensive real life seminar.
I was sitting in on one of these while the “guru” explained a technique. I thought that he must be joking, but he was not. When I raised my had an mentioned the fact that this was illegal here, and I even gave the statute that prohibited this practice along with the penalties involved. I was told that my kind of negative thinking would prevent me from ever amounting to anything in this business. I might as well leave now and go back to my job, I was told. People laughed, and the “guru” went on. They didn’t want to hear the truth - they wanted to continue to be “True Believers”.
Ah, well…good for them. If they follow his advice, they will find out soon enough. Similar incidents happened to friends of mine, who are very successful in this business, with other “gurus” who came to town.
Valgolas,
You raise excellent points, and I agree with you that people should not follow blindly. I think it makes sense to have an excellent grasp of the concepts, understand which concepts apply to which situations, and then hire experts such as local attorneys, title companies, etc. draw up the paperwork.
Your points remind me of the TV show…“Flip this House” Have you ever noticed the details about their deals. Ex. Purchase Price: $100,000. Fix Up Costs = $30,000, Sold Price on the back-end $150,000. Total Profit = $20,000.00 I hope people are not watching that show thinking that is the real profit.
Thanks for the Ben Franklin quote…I love that stuff.
Your points are respected and hopefully read by others on this post.
'I totally agree with JeffinCT and some of the others who have defended some of the GURUs."
I’ve made money by utilzing methods taught by Robert Allen & Albert Lowry.
Or you could just tape a guru @ dinner. :biglaugh:
I’ve seen the show and I actually find it very entertaining. There are colorful personalities and the dialogue is pretty funny sometimes. But I’ve also noticed how there are many details that are left out of each episode. I think that’s mainly due to editing constraints. Hopefully, there aren’t too many people who watch the show for actual training in flipping properties. To me, I see it for what it is – entertainment.
True, it is entertaining.
Question about “Flip THis House”…other than the obvious, why does “Ginger” have a job? She should be living in a refrigerator box with “Jack”…she is totally useless! Oxygen thief!
Keith
kd-
THANK YOU!! I was wondering if anyone else felt that way about Ginger! It’s obvious that she feels she brings something useful to the show, because if she-for ONE SECOND- realized how people really see her, she would refuse to show her face on camera again!!..Poor girl… :
I have not actually taken the plunge into rehabbing homes yet…Believe me, it’s all I can do not to jump right in and find that first deal, but I’ve made a few promise’s to myself that I must meet first ( continuing to improve credit, attend REI clubs, read MANY more books, save more $$, etc)…Can’t wait…
Anyway, I have to say that I was a little shocked the first time that I watched this show, because I certainly didn’t expect for the profit to be so high…I have done some “practice” worksheets with some homes in my area, just to do it, and the profit potential looked pretty good to me at 8,000 to 16,000…But 20,000 or more on EVERY house we see them do???..Strange happenings…But, I will continue to watch the show, if for no other reason, than because I have become OBSESSED with anything Real Estate these days, and with 3 kids under the age of 3 to raise, it’s alot easier for me to get my fix watching tv than to attempt to get on the computer and not be interrupted-let alone actually get to read a book!!..Anyway, sorry for the long post…
And I’d like to send a little “thank you” out to Ginger of Trademark Properties…If ever I had doubt I could do this…I don’t anymore…Thanks.
Ginger serves two purposes – eye candy for the show (though obviously she was hired before A & E started filming), and more likely, she serves as Richard’s assistant for spotting more potential flips. Richard obviously knows that the more people he can train to seek out good investment possibilities, ultimately the more profitable his company is. Very simply, he can’t do everything himself.
The show doesn’t give much as far as actual details; such as – and this is the most important factor in all of their deals – does the house actually sell? And how long does it take to sell? Another thing I don’t understand is the deadlines that are set. Each episode falls under the premise that there are only a certain number of days left to complete their renovations. But until what? Until they start having to make payments? I guess that’s what it is, I don’t really know.
I see no problem with Ginger. She’s new, she’s learning the system, and like all of us, she’s making mistakes. But there are many people who say that’s really the best way to learn.
The deadlines set are there because they buy the houses at auction. They put down 10% at auction and have a set number of days to put down the remainder of the money. They save alot of expense by never getting loans for the remaining 90%. There was one episode where they had 1.5 million in real estate that they had to come up with the money by 5pm or lose the houses. They received an extension of 10 days and thus got to keep the houses.
Although the margins they post on the show are misleading, there are some things in place that make it much more profitable for them to do than for most investors. The first being the ability to buy for 10% rehab and sell in less than the total number of days they have before the remaining balance is due. The second being the reduced construction cost of having a dedicated (possibly on the pay roll?? not sure about that yet) construction crew / company. The realtors also work for Trademark so he saves money on the realtor splits.
Although Ginger is a complete TOOL on the show, Trademark can afford to have her because of the economies of scale they posssess. She can make bad decisions about houses at auction and the profitability is still there whereas a normal investor can’t afford her mistakes.
That being said, don’t cut her any slack on her lack of knowledge. If what they say on the show is real, she’s been working for Trademark for 5 years. If you are a TOOL after 5 years then there just isn’t any hope for you.
From what I’ve seen, some of their properties are bought at auction, but not all of them. In one episode, they bought a little house from two daughters who were selling their deceased mother’s residence. The house still had all of their mother’s belongings, and Richard had to deal with each of the daughters separately – buying half of the house from each woman in different transactions. Anyway, there was a deadline for that house too. Maybe it’s simply a personal goal Richard sets up, but the way the show plays, it seems like it’s life or death if everything’s not ready by the date they set up. What you said about auction purchases makes perfect sense. But I don’t understand how anyone can buy, renovate, and sell inside of 10 days.
Well you never actually see how long it takes to close on the sale of the homes after they renovate - in fact many of the houses aren’t even sold by the end of the episode.
The first part of the process (closing takes almost no time since it’s usually an auction sale) is very fast. Quick closing and immediately a crew of 40+ guys starts working on a house - I can see getting it done in 10 days easily with that workforce. The key is having all the construction crew at the ready all the time (which is why I think they actually are on his payroll, not just contracted out).
I saw a couple of people curious about Nouveau Riche. Our experience (my wife Brenda and I ) with NR has been phenomenal. We have become REI Millionaires in just 2 years. We have helped 4 more people become REI Millionaires. The 30+ Students we recommended to the program that bought a property averaged $29,000 on their first deal.
But not everyone looked for a deal. Just like JeffinCt says “They are not following the course. They just own the course. THEN, they tell their friends who don’t even own the course AND THE FRIENDS start bad mouthing the course. I bought the course, I followed the course. I succeeded.”
We learned you can’t make someone buy a house even when they know how and when they ask enough people what NOT to do, they eventually find someone to tell them what they want to hear because ultimately they’re afraid to try.
If you want to know why we recommend the R2E2 Home Study program (it’s only $200 a month…not $16,000) is because it’s how we continue to learn, so why not tell others? We believe in giving back as a way to keep what we have. It’s a basic rule of Prosperity thinking.
The NR company is so confident in their education they only advertise through current Students to recommend new ones. When you’re ready to invest $16,000 to change your life (the key word is CHANGE) by attending the classes of your choice over 2 years with expert practicing Instructors, you can now get College credit for attending.
Good Investing to you all,
Bob
I commend you for your success with this course. With all due respect, however, there are plenty of people on this forum alone, with excellent information that will help any motivated entrepreneur to become a success in real estate without having to spend $16,000.
Personally, I took a course for $395 many years ago on equity sharing by Paul Simon and did very well. A few years ago I completed Bill Gatten’s Land Trust course which is recognized by the California Dept. of Real Estate as continuing education. Cost at that time was $2495. In barely two years, I’ve accumulated well over six figures of equity and profits doing just a few deals.
All I am saying is that there is a wealth of information available to prospective real estate investors from many good sources without having to go in debt to learn. In my opinion, $16,000 is exhorbitant.
The PH D behind your name speaks volumes. You are accomplished at knowing how to learn. The majority of what NR is the basic learning skills so many people lack. They focus first on defining desire and committment long before getting into the nut and bolts of “how to”. The price is what’s required to get the job done. Was your Masters Degree tuition only $395?