nit wit........maybe not

Random Ramblings
1

A spokeman for Joe Wilson posted over $700,000 raised after his “you lie” outburst.I’m not justifying his dumb outburst.But maybe some on this forum were a little gitty to throw (what seems to be how the majority felt about the speech)under the bus a little too soon.Furthermore,the democrats did find a “loophole”(with the repubs help) and took it out of the bill that would’ve covered Illegals.

Funny how these things kinda take care of themselves is a way.Or perhaps it’s THE TRUTH which always prevails.No blamegame,name calling,or other crap; just sit back my friends…greed will kill greed.Simple as I can say it. Common sense and facts win every time. :beer

Have a great weekend yall!

2

MAJORITY???

Where…maybe your house???

From everything I’ve seen INCLUDING what came from REPUBLICANS themselves…This DOPES own PARTY threw him under the BUS!!

This guy’s opponent was hundreds of thousands in debt from his last campaign…Now he’s raised (as of yesterday) OVER $500,000 and STILL growing!!!

So…TOURETTE BOY takes a guy that had NO SHOT against him…and suddenly PUTS him BACK IN THE GAME…with TWO WORDS!!!

That’s the very definition of a NIT WIT in my book.

And from the LOOKS on the faces of Republican leaders after making apology after apology for this dope…Calling this guy a NIT WIT is, I’m sure, far better than what his own party members refer to him as. :biggrin

Now they have ANOTHER race to fight in Alabama that wasn’t even on the radar screen until the other night.

3

From what I’ve been reading, people are supportive of him, not because of where he did it, but THAT he did it… like I said earlier, it seems it was an emperor has no clothes moment…

What is interesting in this debate is not only that it has forced Democrats to come out strongly and say there is no provision for illegal aliens on national TV, but Conrad and Baucus (Dem’s in the Senate Group of 6), came out Friday and said they would put in a citizenship requirement in the Senate bill…

“We really thought we’d resolved this question of people who are here illegally, but as we reflected on the President’s speech last night we wanted to go back and drill down again,” said Senator Kent Conrad, one of the Democrats in the talks after a meeting Thursday morning. Baucus later that afternoon said the group would put in a proof of citizenship requirement to participate in the new health exchange — a move likely to inflame the left."

I’ll bet it will inflame them… considering the Dems voted TWICE along party lines against two Rep ammendments in the House bill 3200, for proof of citizenship requirements to close the loophole… you know, the one that supposedly didn’t exist… In doing this, the Dem’s are admitting Wilson was right, which is why he is becoming a cause celeb to the right…

Even Obama’s administration came out and “clarified” this on the Friday night policy dump…

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/09/11/2065287.aspx

Now, let’s see if they’ll “clarify” the abortion issue as well…

4

FD,

First FACT is this is SOUTH CAROLINA not alabama.Second is the MAJORITY of americans are STILL against this healthcare even after “The One” tried another pack of :bs

Also the conceeded SOB had to make even 9/11 about him by changing the name…why after 8yrs?Makes about as much sense as closing gitmo being his 1st order of business on his 2nd day in office!And how did that help your stocks,or the economy or any damn thing?FD,I really respect you and I know you’re smart enough to see through this circus show.

Another fact is libs put in contribution links on all their crazyass sites to support wilson’s opponent.Wilson,however only had his own site to represent him since repubs had denounced this as they should’ve.BUt you must admit that’s the real “grassroots”@ work as we’ll see today in washington.

Stay tuned a real uprising of real people is coming and not a minute too soon.

5

Bama,

I’m not disagreeing with you on a lot of this…

You’re a smart person, you can see through the BS and I have to be honest here…

I’ve never seen anything like what’s going on in this country right now…

That uprising you and others here have been warning about…Is about one major event away.

In all honesty…I can not believe the lunatics in this world haven’t taken advantage of this already.

I’m a REALIST…I look at what I have to work with and structure my investments and plans AROUND the current reality…

Do you want to know what scares me more than Health Care Reform, the Deficit, or anything else right now???

A MAJOR terrorist attack on this country OR a MAJOR weather event that shuts down a big commerce corridor…

We get that within the next YEAR…and we can KISS OUR ECONOMY GOOD BYE!!

We are hanging on by a THREAD right now…I see signs of recovery…REAL SIGNS…but they are TREMENDOUSLY WEAK and FRAGILE…ANYTHING…ANYTHING…unforseen that creates PANIC will CRUSH any recovery we may, or may not, be experiencing…

I give our Goverment credit…Both BUSH and OBAMA…They DID NOT let it just GO…Like so many said should have happened…That would have literally SHUT DOWN the entire economy…I’ve read reports from completely unbiased sources that said the Goverment under BUSH and with OBAMA reps present were laying out plans for how long our FOOD SUPPLIES would last if the banking system collapsed…That’s how close we were to losing EVERYTHING…They estimated about 3 weeks before FOOD SHORTAGES would start, that would lead to HOARDING then THAT would lead to looting and it would accelerate down from there…These were not IDIOTS laying out these scenerios…These were people from major MILLS and food production companies that went to Washington because THEY were concerned about the CREDIT they require to operate these MASSIVE grain mills across the country…We came THAT close to losing it ALL!

To their credit…BOTH SIDES…cut the BS and did what they are currently getting CRUCIFIED for…They decided an ORDERLY RESTRUCTURING was better than a complete COLLAPSE…We had the COLLAPSE in the 1930’s…It literally haunted people till their dieing days DECADES later…Remember the day Congress DID NOT vote for the TARP??? Wall STREET COLLAPSED that day…Literally fell through the floor. PIMCO (the largest bond trading company on earth) recently mentioned that their second in command sent his WIFE out THAT DAY to every ATM machine she could go to and had her withdraw as much CASH as possible. He literally told her that the banking system was about to completely collapse WITHIN HOURS!!!

This mess may end the same…Maybe they just prolonged the end result…BUT…my son ATE last night…I have ROOF over my head that is competely PAID OFF, Looters have not invaded my neighborhood (although should they decide to…I’ll let Mr. Colt, Mr. Smith & Wesson and Mr. Remington do my speaking for me) I made more money last year than I had the prior year…And our COUNTRY and it’s ECONOMY are still ALIVE…

We’ll see how things go…

We are STILL in completely UNCHARTED WATERS.

6

Fd,

I totally 100% agree.I also wanna add to your very true statement about terror attack,the push for racial divide is being done also.They are foaming at the mouth @ MSNBC to tie everything to race,and knowing that nbc/GE is in bed with this administration is scary.This artificial racism is terribly dangerous FD.Trust me I’m in the deepsouth if it was all about race,I definitly would hear it here.Sure there are nutjob racists on both sides,but to feed on it as nbc is doing is begging for the nutjobs to make a move.

Very trying times we’re in,I hope people will use democracy for their voice,and the politicians and media will listen.So far,so good,let’s all hope and pray for our country.

7

Fdjake,

I don’t believe they did the right thing… all they did was set us up for the NEXT big one… How are you going to be able to argue against the next bailout with the same rationale… It will be a new twist, a new “unprecedented” bailout…

The more the government is relied upon for bailouts, the MORE bailouts there will be… NOT less…

8

I don’t believe you fully understand exactly what would have happened here…

We were looking down the barrel of a COMPLETE BANKING SYSTEM COLLAPSE…

MONEY MARKET accounts were being closed at rates that banks COULD NOT keep up with…They were LITERALLY within HOURS of having to LOCK THE DOORS. This comes directly from Fed Governors that were being contacted by their regional banking centers.

Banks DO NOT keep money (dollar for dollar) in instruments that can be quickly liquidated. As more and more people began to panic worrying about ACCESS to their money, these accounts drew down at rates that according to people very close to the situation…Were HOURS away for causing banks to DENY ACCESS…

As soon as that happened PANIC would have set in and at that point it’s GONE…The genie is out of the bottle…

Most people have absolutely NO IDEA how close we came to complete economic shut down…When a complete collapse occurs NOTHING moves in a normal or orginaized fashion…PANIC RULES…Rumors are the new reality…

Our Goverment is in NO WAY perfect…FAR, FAR from it…But in THAT INSTANT, under those conditons…They did the right thing…

This is just my opinion on the subject…

I see people everyday that live in, or are directly affected by CHAOS…
It’s not something you want to see in your banking system or your financial markets.

It sounds great…“They should have just let the banks fail” It’s sort of like saying we should just NUKE IRAN!!! Sounds GREAT…Until you start looking at REALITY…In reality that isn’t an option. Just as letting a banking system that took over 200 years to create, CRUMBLE in HOURS…

But honestly…In the end…We’ll never know for sure…This is all opinion.
You could be 100% right…We could have had a complete collapse and everything would have righted itself eventually…One thing is CERTAIN…It would have been absolutely BRUTAL…and MANY, MANY, Americans that never did a thing wrong would have been CRUSHED. As their grandparents were in the 1930’s…Another LOST GENERATION…But maybe we already have that???

We’ll never know.

9

Fdake,

“We were looking down the barrel of a COMPLETE BANKING SYSTEM COLLAPSE…”

I know that is what we were being told over and over again… But here is where I disagree… you have the same people who didn’t see it coming, all of a sudden being “right” within 30 days to pass TARP… and the REASON we were given for TARP (i.e. - REMOVING the toxic assets from the system to unfreeze the credit markets) not only did NOT happen, they are STILL there, it was an about face almost immediately AFTER it passed… and the money was also spent on things that had NOTHING TO DO with WHY the program was passed… so, in the meantime, we BORROWED the money to GIVE to the banks to LOAN US BACK our OWN MONEY…

I don’t think you fully understand there’s more at play here… more and more people in the financial community are saying we should have just let these failing businesses go out of business…

Just like with “stimulus”… 10% of the money has actually made it out there for all these SHOVEL-READY jobs (another BOGUS claim), and you have the VP & President saying it has WORKED… GREAT! Then give the OTHER 90% BACK… last I checked, it was MORE than $2500 for every man, woman and child in this country…

I doubt we will agree on this, but the White Houses OWN PEOPLE are saying that unemployment will remain HIGH FOR YEARS TO COME… I hope they are wrong on that too…

10

You are right…100%

BUT…what the TARP plan DID do was this…

It put a FLOOR IN…It put in a safety net that everyone KNEW existed.
As soon as that NET was in place people and institutions KNEW if they HAD to jump they wouldn’t DIE.

Knowing that literally STOPPED the panic…That’s a FACT…Once TARP was passed we moved THROUGH a certain point of no return…The markets recognized this IMMEDIATELY. That tells you something right there.

In my mind THAT is what TARP was all REALLY about…They couldn’t come out and TELL US that…It would have been admitting there WAS panic. TARP was created to STOP a run on our financial institutions…It was SOLD to us, and it HAD to be SOLD…They had to LABEL it with something simple like TOXIC ASSET…NO ONE knows where these things are…even TODAY…But it STOPPED A STAMPEDE…

THAT’s were they got it RIGHT…And to be honest…We can thank BUSH for that…This went agianst everything this guy stood for but he recognized (to his credit) that this was a panic situation and PANIC and BANKING aren’t two words that belong together.

But the end result is…You are I are both STILL making a living…and our kids are eating…

11

If I recall correctly, the FDIC raised the limit to $250K per account (2 1/2 times the previous limit) temporarily, which allayed more fears than TARP… TARP made people all the more nervous, and with good reason…

That, on top of all the spending that’s occurred and the power grabs with it, have made people extremely mad, and IMHO, is the reason for all the uprising…

12

Then explain to me WHY Wall Street literally COLLAPSED the SECOND that first TARP vote failed on the floor???

I WATCHED IT as it happened…We walked right up to the abyss…

THAT collapse was a CLEAR SIGNAL by the MARKETS that this was NOT OVER…not even close…That increase to $250,000 is MEANINGLESS if your bank has LOCKED it’s doors and you have no banking system left. And THAT is EXACTLY what TARP averted…If the WALL ST. BANKING SYSTEM had been allowed to CRASH people would have hit banks in DROVES the next day…It would have created complete panic when it became apparent that banks don’t keep enough CASH on hand for every deposit. Then the REAL stampede would have started.

The proof is in the TARP VOTE itself…It failed intially…Wall ST collapsed IMMEDIATELY.
Then the PHONE CALLS got made…Phone calls WARNING Congress what the next day on Wall St was going to look like should this measure NOT pass…These Congressmen are a JOKE…I laughed my @ss off at what was going on…They put on a CIRCUS for us…All of a sudden the same guys who voted to build a $200 million moving sidewalk in my state and COUNTLESS other BILLIONS in WASTE were then CONCERNED about MONEY being used to save an entire economy???

It was complete BS…What SNAPPED them out of it was the PICTURE that was painted for them by PAULSON and OTHERS…They laid out EXACTLY what would happen on Wall St if this failed…They showed them the ALREADY STAGGERING OUT FLOWS of money from our banking system as smart people pulled their $$$$ and planned for a collapse…Paulson showed them what THEIR FUTURES would hold if THEY let it all go on THEIR watch.

Self preservation won out…And the SAFETY NET got placed under Wall St…and you and I STILL have a functioning banking system.

As I said…Our Goverment is not perfect…But on this one…They got it right. the real problem was created by REPUBLICANS who left WALL ST. with virtually NO REGULATION for 8 LONG years. In addition…we had another idiot REPUBLICAN for a Federal Reserve Chairman…“Many Americans may benefit form new MORTGAGE PRODUCTS coming to market.” I doubt he was talking about guys like ME in that speech…I HAVE benefitted from the housing collapse but that probably WASN’T the BENEFIT he was referring to.

It ALWAYS ENDS THE SAME WAY…Some people SEE the BUBBLE INFLATING and get away from it…OTHERS run TO it and then COMPLAIN when the explosion hurts them…

The people who didn’t go near BUBBLE are left to BUY from the people who got HURT…

SOME of the people that got hurt LEARN from their PAIN…Others NEVER learn.

And the cycle REPEATS…OVER and OVER and OVER…Has for THOUSANDS of years…WILL for thousands more.

Going against the CROWD has made me more money than anything I have ever done…REMEMBER THAT!!!

13

Fdajke,

I was going to respond to your point about “how do I know I’m right, because the MAJORITY thinks, I do the opposite…” schitck, but I guess after you thought about it, you realized that the MAJORITY were pushing for TARP… so you can’t have it both ways… which is why I suspect you deleted it…

As far as the market goes, it dropped 7% when the first vote failed, but the NEXT DAY, before there was any vote, it GREW 5%… AFTER TARP was passed, look at the charts it started dropping like a rock… it was down 13% a week AFTER TARP was passed… it went down to $6547 on March 10, 2009…

I don’t buy that TARP was the savior you think it was BECAUSE they POUNDED that we had to remove the toxic assets from the market to get credit rolling again… Then almost IMMEDIATELY after it was passed, they CHANGED THEIR MIND… toxic assets remain, credit markets are still frozen for the most part… job NOT accomplished…

14

Credit markets are NOT frozen…

You have no idea how bad this was…We were at a point were LIBOR was at never before seen levels…and BANKS would NOT lend OVERNIGHT to other BANKS…THAT is a frozen credit market…We just had HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people buy new cars with cash for clunkers…Where did these people get the FINANCING to buy these cars if credit markets are STILL frozen??? They were buying $25,000 cars and getting at most $4500 for their clunkers…The CREDIT MARKETS provided those loans…UNFROZEN CREDIT MARKETS!!!

You’ve forgotten how bad this was…THRIVING BUSINESSES could NOT get simple PAYROLL loans…Loans and credit lines they had for DECADES were pulled in as banks LOCKED UP over liquidity levels.

LIBOR is the overnight lending rate banks charge each other for short term loans…BEFORE TARP that rate was at HISTORIC NEVER BEFORE SEEN LEVELS …LIBOR is now down to just over 1%…For ONE REASON and ONE REASON only…TARP…

Those banks wouldn’t lend to each other because NO ONE knew who had which toxic assets…FEAR RULED THE BANKING WORLD. Once that NET was put in place it didn’t matter if you were loaning to a bank with those assets…TARP would make the LENDING bank whole again if the bank TAKING the loan failed due to toxic asset problems…THAT and ONLY that…Got CREDIT MARKETS operating again.

As far as my comment goes that you quoted…I stand by it COMPLETELY and actually ended the post with a different wording…

I go against the crowd in almost every investment I make…When I see the MAJORITY believing one thing AS YOU POINT OUT and agree with in so many of your posts…I KNOW that in almost every case, THAT OPINION will be proven WRONG…

Look at the track record…

When did the majority of Amercians buy their homes in the last 10 years 1999-2009…they purchased in the biggest numbers in 2005-2006 the EXACT PEAK of the biggest housing bubble this country has ever seen…THE MAJORITY WAS WRONG

What happened to the MASSES that literally CAMPED OUT along with THOUSANDS of others at sales offices in Florida to buy PRE-CONSTRUCTION CONDOS!!! THE MAJORITY WAS WRONG…

What happened to the MIILIONS that thougth they could make $$$$$ trading TECH COMPANY STOCKS in the late 90’s…THE NAJORITY WAS WRONG.

Now the MAJORITY (according to YOU) feel as though we should have let a cascading banking collapse occur at whatever speed the market would unwind at…and this would have been BETTER than what we have now…A FUNCTIONING ECONOMY…

I stand by every word I wrote…THEY got this one right…As far as what the MAJORITY THINKS??? The majority of Americans don’t understand how their own MORTGAGES are structured…I don’t expect them to understand that our BANKING SYSTEM works through a series of interlocked institutions that ALL sink or swim based on CONFIDENCE in that system.

TARP…whether you like it or not…Was the LAST rung on that confidence ladder…

Monday morning quarterbacks are about as valuable as yesterdays LOSING lottery ticket.

I;m NOT calling you a monday morning quarter back…But I AM calling the so called finacial EXPERTS that got HAMMERED during this mess LOSING LOTTERY TICKET HOLDERS…Their opinions are of equal value. :beer

15

“TARP…whether you like it or not…Was the LAST rung on that confidence ladder…”

Well, that last rung snapped, because we went from 10,800 down to 6547 AFTER TARP was passed… oodles and oodles of confidence there…

“A FUNCTIONING ECONOMY…”

The economy was functioning during ALL of this… There was still 90%+ employment and because of cost-cutting and inventory reduction efforts, and lay-offs, you had companies reporting profits…

“As far as my comment goes that you quoted…I stand by it COMPLETELY and actually ended the post with a different wording…”

Then we agree, TARP was the wrong thing to do…

“Where did these people get the FINANCING to buy these cars if credit markets are STILL frozen??? They were buying $25,000 cars and getting at most $4500 for their clunkers…The CREDIT MARKETS provided those loans…UNFROZEN CREDIT MARKETS!!!”

The credit markets are thawing, but they are still very tight… but they have not reversed course and RE-established people’s lines who had them cut or closed, and unless you have 720+ credit scores, you will be paying MORE any loan you can actually get… So we GAVE them our BORROWED money, only to have them make it HARDER for us to get… and this does not include all the fees they’ve added…

The name said it all - Troubles Asset Relief Program - TARP - it was a bait and switch and BILLIONS went to foreign governments… all the “troubled assets” are still there along with the NEW record batch last month…

It’s like I said, we are probably not going to agree on this… I hope that things get better, but time will tell…

16

We aren’t going to agree on this…and this is just MY take on it…You are certainly entitled to yours!

I don’t think you REALLY understand what was going on PRIOR to TARP or the REAL benefit of the program…

LIBOR went from 1% to OVER 7%… THEN it went from that NEVER BEFORE SEEN range… to NO LOANS BEING MADE…AT ALL…NO OVERNIGHT BANK TO BANK LENDING at ANY RATE.

THAT…Is a FROZEN credit market…

You are forgetting what was really happening at this time…

At this point something had to be done…and QUICKLY…Businesses everywhere had lines of credit SHUT, not LOWERED…Not a RATE increase…those credit lines were CLOSED…because PANIC was setting in.

At this point the heads of the Nations biggest banks were called to Washington…They were sat down and TOLD…You’re are SIGNING this document…You are TAKING this money…If you don’t YOU WILL BE REPLACED…Remember this is all being done under GEORGE BUSH!!! If Obama did this now you’d be SCREAMING about SOCIALISM!!!

So the BUSH administration STEPPED ON THE FOUNDING FATHERS HEADS and TOOK OVER…They didn’t know WHO had which toxic assets because the way these products were packaged…So they made EVERYONE TAKE THE MONEY…they did EXACTLY the right thing at exactly the right time.

Once those banks took the TARP funds and the dust settled, INTERBANK lending resumed and LIBOR RATES FELL (currently at 1%) because at that point EVERYONE was ALL IN…The FEDS were BACK STOPPING this and made SURE there WAS a last RUNG back on the confidence ladder.

As far as your STOCK MARKET quotes…They just prove my point…

THE MAJORITY…are almost ALWAYS wrong!!!
These people SOLD THEIR STOCK at the BOTTOM (that’s why prices FALL, more SELLERS than BUYERS) and they sold at FIRE SALE PRICES (as usual) They did this at the time our Goverment had finally put the fire out. You made my point!!

As far as your point about needing a 720 credit score???

That’s called PROPER LENDING STANDARDS…You loan money to people who PAY YOU BACK!!! Credit lines get pulled in during EVERY RECESSION as banks look to protect themselves against increasing JOB LOSSES that create an inability to repay…This is Banking 101 stuff here…Happens in every recession. People with slightly LOWER scores CAN get credit now…They just PAY MORE for it. As has ALWAYS been the case up until GREENSPAN decided NO DOC’s and SUB PRIME might be a “GOOD THING FOR CONSUMERS.”

On top of it all…

GOLDMAN has ALREADY paid back EVERY DIME in Tarp money they took…WITH INTEREST!!!

MORGAN STANLEY…Has paid back EVERY DIME with INTEREST

JP MORGAN…Has paid back EVERY DIME with INTEREST

As a matter of FACT 10 other banks have repaid their TARP money WITH INTEREST and exited the program.

This program SAVED our banking system…It isn’t popular because the MAJORITY of AMERICANS look at it the way you do…With little to no understanding of what it REALLY accomplished and WHY it was done.

The reality is our GOVERMENT MADE MONEY on every CENT it loaned Goldman, JP MORGAN, and Stanley not to mention a dozen other banks.

TARP saved our banking system…It STOPPED a panic that was building and it gave the economy TIME to react RATIONALLY to changing events…
The PROOF is in the VAST DIFFERENCE from our current economic reality compared to months ago when people were BUYING GUNS at levels never before seen, they were withdrawing all available CASH and CLOSING bank accounts at levels so outragous we came within HOURS of creating LOCK DOWN in the banking system, cars loans and LEASING programs were SHUT DOWN, inter bank lending had STOPPED…and NO ONE knew where it would end…Compare that reality to where we are now…World credit makets are working, you can get a car loan (assuming you have DECENT credit) at any car dealer you go to…Home prices look like they have bottomed, AND…We STILL HAVE A BANKING SYSTEM!! The MAJORITY who SOLD THEIR STOCK at Dow 6500 are now BUYING IT BACK at DOW 9500!!! Again…you proved my point!

Hank Paulson should have a 100 elementary schools named after him.
It’ll take 30 YEARS MINIMUM for that man to get the CREDIT he deserves for what he did during this crisis. And I’ll add another name to that list…
Bernanke…The MOB thinks this guy is a dope…My take on it???
This country got LUCKY…We had a economics professor that made his BONES studying the DEPRESSION as Fed Chief…His writtings on the subject are considered some of the best ever put to paper…He understood what went WRONG and the mistakes that were made in the 1930’s…He spent his professional life TEACHING people what went wrong…He also had the advantage of 20/20 hindsight…And WE had the advantage of having HIM as a Fed Chairman when this event unfolded.

As I said…Our Goverment is not perfect…far from it…and we STILL have some MAJOR ISSUES…But last year, when the world was falling apart…The UNITED STATES stopped the panic and bought the world enough time to let COOLER HEADS PREVAIL…In the 1930’s the U.S. sat on their hands and WATCHED as the WORLD ECONOMY COLLAPSED!! This time England didn’t stop the panic…China didn’t do it…Japan didn’t do it…OUR GOVERMENT DID IT. I have a hard time BLAMING the worlds finest DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM for EVERYTHING wrong in the world! In the 1930’s there was NO LENDER OF LAST RESORT and that is what caused a cascading finacial collapse. This time our goverment stepped in and became that lender of last resort…That’s what saved the economy and the banking system.

But…you were right on ONE POINT…We will NOT agree on this.

But thats OK…You are not alone in your feelings or opinion…In FACT…You’re in the MAJORITY!. :cool

17

Jake,

It is very easy for people with no knowledge of the banking system to complain about the bail-out, but people on the inside know the truth. The TARP saved the economy. We were thisclose to a complete financial collapse of the financial system. So I would not waste anymore of your time or your breathe trying to convince anyone of the fact that you are correct.

It is a fact that PANIC alone can be more devestating than anything.

Think of it like this…If I am at a movie theatre and I start yelling fire; people are going to run over each other to get out of the theatre. Now the actual fire may just be a small garbage can fire in the bathroom which poses no danger to anyone, but to those people in the theatre the fire is a massive fire that could engulf the the theatre and kill everyone.

I have said it before and I will say it again. I will take the opinion of someone with a PHd in economics from MIT when he says we need a bail-out over the opinion of armchair econmists on the web ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

It is easy to get caught up in our own issues and not take into account the greater good of the country. In the words of the great Admiral Spock of the Starfleet Federation “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”.

18

Fdjake,

“But thats OK…You are not alone in your feelings or opinion…In FACT…You’re in the MAJORITY!.”

As you were when TARP passed and the market REALLY collapsed AFTER TARP was passed… So if the idea was to give them confidence as you say, it failed miserably…

While everyone was selling off, I remember reading on here that YOU WERE TOO… along with the majority… so, your contrarian philosophy works, but NOT all the time…

But after ALL THE SPENDING, and the banks PAYING BACK the TARP money, the situation is WORSE…

BLOOMBERG.COM - [size=14pt]Stiglitz Says Banking Problems Are Now Bigger Than Pre-Lehman[/size]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aYdgQkXu9eBg

From the article - [i][b]“We’re going into an extended period of weak economy, of economic malaise,” Stiglitz said. The U.S. will “grow but not enough to offset the increase in the population,” he said, adding that “if workers do not have income, it’s very hard to see how the U.S. will generate the demand that the world economy needs.”

The Federal Reserve faces a “quandary” in ending its monetary stimulus programs because doing so may drive up the cost of borrowing for the U.S. government, he said.

“The question then is who is going to finance the U.S. government,” Stiglitz said."[/b][/i]

And in the end, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer… the cycle continues… So we FINANCED saving these banks and companies with BORROWED MONEY, which they are lending BACK to us WITH INTEREST… and the reward will be higher costs AND higher credit costs due to inevitable higher inflation…

This is WHY people did not want to do this… I remember the arguments AGAINST it then… it will just end up COSTING EVERYONE more money…

19

Christopher,

“I have said it before and I will say it again. I will take the opinion of someone with a PHd in economics from MIT when he says we need a bail-out over the opinion of armchair econmists on the web ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.”

And yet these same ones with the PHD’s not only DIDN’T see it coming, but after PUSHING that the REASON we needed TARP was to REMOVE the toxic assets from the market (hence the name TARP) to get the credit markets lending again, then almost IMMEDIATELY did the absolute opposite and JUST GAVE the banks the liquidity.

And now, if you read the above, the problem is WORSE than Pre-lehman… AND the toxic assets are still out there with MORE being added each month… another RECORD set last month…

The irony is, talking about TARP being the savior of the problem, and the economy coming back from the brink… means that you have to give BUSH the credit… HE passed TARP, not Obama…

The “Stimulus” has only doled out 10% of the money, and there are over 100 fraud investigations going on RIGHT NOW, with just that 10%, and they are SCARED to death about the avalanche that is coming…

You don’t NEED a PHD to read…

"It is easy to get caught up in our own issues and not take into account the greater good of the country. In the words of the great Admiral Spock of the Starfleet Federation “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”.

Ah, a fellow trekkie… Only problem is it wll be the MANY who are PAYING for the needs of the few…

20

Positive,

You just don’t get it nor do I ever expect you to.