Naitonalized Healthcare...

Random Ramblings
21

YES, FDjake… you knew the ONE number wasn’t coming because it was another of your infamous red herring’s… :bs as I said, there IS no ONE number… But as I also said, ANYONE can contact me via email if they would like help with their particular circumstance as I am able… So unlike you, I am avoiding nothing, but encouraging it, and just like Furnishedowner and her tale of plight for her “friend” in another thread regarding not being able to afford health insurance, you CHOOSE not to help… OR provide your “friend” with a source of help OTHER than the government…

“I help more people in a WEEK, than you do in a YEAR!!!” - extemely presumptive and arrogant on your part… I never asserted that I help more OR less people than you, but judging by your definition of “help”…

What is extremely telling FDjake, is that you will give someone $9K for providing you wth “5 minutes of his time”, WHEN IT BENEFITS YOU, or the equivalent of 19 WEEKS salary for your landscaper “friend” who is “scared to death” INSTEAD of just giving him the money to allevaite their stress, which you could write off… At the minimum, you could SHOW your landscaper “friend” HOW TO BIRDDOG FOR YOU, dramatically INCREASING his INCOME AND CIRCUMSTANCE, and giving them the ability to BUY THEIR OWN INSURANCE… but, just let them stew in their own stress juices…

At the minimum, you could puchase them Catasropic coverage (which is half the cost of regular insurance) to alleviate their “scared to death” mentality, being that you just made $40K for doing very little… Hey, here’s an idea, why not show your “friend” HOW to do what you do, be his HML (this way you still profit) for his first deal, and truly make a difference… and guess what? The GOVERNMENT DIDN"T HAVE TO GET INVOLVED…

Put your money where you mouth is…

22

Or better yet, buy them 2000 shares of Ford, and in a couple of weeks, they can buy their own insurance AND pay you back, right?.. May is supposed to be a good month… yes?

23

The $9000 went to a UNION ELECTRICIAN that hasn’t worked in 5 months!!!

I put my money where my mouth is…EVERYDAY…

When you get your SECOND FLIP done we’ll compare notes on who’s helped who MORE!!!

But I have to admit…the Ford stock idea ain’t bad. :beer

24

“But I have to admit…the Ford stock idea ain’t bad.”

AND the government DIDN’T have to get involved… :beer Thanks…

“The $9000 went to a UNION ELECTRICIAN that hasn’t worked in 5 months!!!” - Yes, BUT you did not give him the $9K, he GAVE YOU the $40K because he lacked the knowledge to get it for himself. You gave him $9K because YOU BENEFITED (which I do not begrudge you, BTW, but Geithner would). That union electrician, who has been out of work for 5 months, would have benefited MUCH MORE had you shown him how he could have gotten the $40K and paid you $9K… yes? Or went 50/50…

My point is FDjake, just like with Furnishedowner, I don’t believe the “friends” you listed exist. If they did, you would act on these suggestions or at the very least, have them contact me in lieu of your inaction…

Honestly, let’s run the numbers…

Waitress (15K) & Landscaper Salary ($25K - includes no overtime, unlikely the case with a landscaper this time of year) - $40K or $3333/month
Taxes (6%) - $2400/year or $200/month (they should have no withholding as with an income of $40K/year and a mortgage of $95K, they do not need to have any withholdings)
$95K mortgage, taxes, insurance - $1K/month
Credit Card minimum (not run up, right) - $100/month (likely less)
Phone (no cells, right?) - $40/month (although Vonage can do it for $25/month)
Electric - $150/month
Gas/Bus - $200/month
Food - $400/month
Internet - $30/month
Entertainment - $200
NET POSITIVE MONTHLY INCOME - $1013

Am I missing anything? Where’s the money going? Seems to me, that if the lanscaper is not getting any overtime, he could use the extra time LEARNING FROM YOU on how to do his first flip… As Mike likes to say, there are many more work hours in a week than 40 hours… THAT’S CALLED SACRIFICE…

Fdjake, you’re an intelligent guy, and people DO benefit from your posting, which is one of the reason’s why I, and I may be speaking out of turn, but MIke, find it hard to, on the one hand watch as you defend the government doing that which you are better off doing for yourself, while conversely doing and profiting for yourself…

It is a fact of life, you do not teach your kids to be dependent on the government (that is, if you care about them), but rather to be responsible and do for THEMSELVES.

WHY do you want to expect LESS from adults?..

25

Positiveoutlook, your posts have very condescending tone to them. Apparently anyone that doesn’t share your viewpoint needs your education so that they can learn some sense.

26

Your free to your opinion Vader, but it rings particularly hollow coming from you based on your posts in other threads.

“Apparently anyone that doesn’t share your viewpoint needs your education so that they can learn some sense.” - Wrong, I don’t pretend to be smarter than the next… but I learned along time ago that you can only know what you truly believe if you challenge what you believe by looking at both sides, and arguing the merits…

In this case, you only make people weaker by making them dependent on the government… and in this case (i.e. - nationalized healthcare), it has the potential to make lives miserable for EVERYONE across the board… especially when there are other ways to accomplish the goal without literally making people slaves to the government… You would think that Social Security and Medicare, Medicaid, etc. would make this obvious… people on these systems are MISERABLE… and we want to nationalize this?

Where’s the logic?

27

It still doesn’t answer the question… WHY do you want to expect LESS from adults?..

28

fdjake,

Thanks, you really hammered your points home. I am with you 100%. You are a hell of a good writer. You contribute enormously to the readability of REI CLUB. You could easily handle a newspaper column–why not submit some of your “Contrarian Writings” and get some bucks for your words. You can start with a local rag in your neighborhood…but I would miss reading you here.

I ESPECIALLY ENJOY YOUR UNIQUE STYLE AND PUNCTUATION… IT’S LIKE YOU ARE SCREAMING!!! But very easy to read, please don’t change.

It’s as if Positive Outlook doesn’t have a clue about the real world that working people are in. If you are in the working poor, every tank of gas is a challenge, your diet is Ramen and Macaroni & Cheese, your clothes come from the Thrift Store, but usually you can’t afford to go there. An illness is huge, because how are you going to afford the medicine?

No, you can’t get all prescriptions cheaply. I just had to pay $219.81 for 9 Imitrex tablets because I had a sudden migraine that was driving a giant metal spike right between my eyes. I had stupidly forgotten to renew my Prescription from the Canadian pharmacy that I use that charges $4.50/pill! But it takes weeks, and a special prescription from the doctor, and it can be held up in U.S. Customs, and it ain’t real easy to do. Oh, and United Healthcare only covers 4 pills a month. THEY DON"T COME IN PACKAGES OF FOUR, ONLY NINE AND THE PHARMACIES CAN’T SPLIT THE PACKAGES!! That’s how United Healthcare cuts their costs of that medication.

Yes, I will pay for National Health. No, of course it won’t be free.

Grandma was paying hundreds of dollars a month for her 4 or 5 special eyedrops until we got the Canadian thing figured out. We discovered she was only taking 1/2 dose of the eyedrops to SAVE MONEY. She had lost about 85% of her vision by then due to the increased intra-occular pressure on her optic nerve. Yep, that’s what the middle class, not just the poor is resorting to.

PositiveOutlook, Look, there is also no way that I would give you someone’s name and number to “help”. I enjoy trading communication but I don’t know you, and I certainly don’t think you are qualified to help the poor. You are in some kind of PollyAnna Conservative fog where you think people can “bootstrap” themselves out of poverty.

Remember the old cartoon about Barry Goldwater lecturing a little Black kid–“Why didn’t YOUR daddy give you a department store?”

Okay, a final note…
Everyone needs to read “Outliers” by Gladwell. He’s the same guy who wrote “The Tipping Point” and “Blink”. It’s a terrific read, kept me up all night. Spotted it in Hastings, a new release.

This book tells how Bill Gates, The Beatles, and others made it. It has made me see people around me in a different light. It has made me be more proactive in helping others. It definitely modifies the “bootstrapping” theory of how to get ahead. It’s a mind-bending book of research into what makes some people uber-successful-- Outliers-- outside of the norm winners. And how culture can kill the chances of others. One of the best books ever for understanding human behavior. Highly highly recommended. Spend your bucks on it. Learn.

Furnishedowner

29

Furnishedowner,

"Look, there is also no way that I would give you someone’s name and number to “help” - I also offered for you to provide THEM my email, but, and this is a big BUT, if they are real, you did not even give them the CHOICE. And basd on your posting it all of a sudden resolved itself AFTER I offered, just as was the case with FDJake. I have LOTS of exeperience with the working poor, as I demonstrated in that thread and YOU Furnishedowner recognized; I also used to be one. Everyone has periods in their life where things go bad, but what you are advocating is putting everyone decisions and money under the control of government for healthcare.

The polyanna view is that government can do this WITHOUT charging the working poor MORE for the same thing while getting less services. Just like with Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. the money eventually runs out, and you either have to charge more or give less…

The difference between us is that you want to condem these people to this life under government control as opposed to showing them HOW to it different while remaining free and with CHOICES.

“And how culture can kill the chances of others.” - yes, like government dependence…

“because how are you going to afford the medicine?” - drug companies HAVE programs in place to provide FREE drugs to the working poor AND elderly on fixed incomes.

You’re just resigned to let the government do DESPITE ALL the evidence that they will not be able to do it wihtout INCREASING costs to the working poor, but taking it out of their check as a tax, and then providing them with less services…

How, exactly, DON’T you see this???

30

Furnishedowner -

“Yes, I will pay for National Health. No, of course it won’t be free.” - yes, and it will be MORE epxensive with LESS services. If you don’t think so, WHAT do you base this on? You are ready to subserviate your fellow citizens to it, SURELY you know the answer to this…

31

First off…

Thanks guys for the encouraging words. It is GREATLY APPRECIATED!!

Second…I have no axe to grind here…I simply think we can do a better job taking care of our citizens. Other very wealthy, free countires do it. WE SHOULD ALSO.

The family I mentioned are REAL PEOPLE…I know these people and have helped them…But giving their info to some guy who’s NAME I don’t even know…That ain’t happening. I can just HEAR that conversation. He could BLAME BOTH OF THEM for losing their jobs and being lazy cause there’s "MORE THAN 40 HOURS IN A WORK WEEK!!! "(Holy Christ…if there’s someone here who needs a name change more than this beauty I haven’t met him yet…POSITIVE OUTLOOK…That’s right up there with a Yale educated President calling himself “THE DECIDER” during a international news conference) Has this guy EVER actually posted a POSITIVE VIEW on ANY SUBJECT???

As far as me TEACHING an out of work electrician how to flip houses.
Yea…and exactly WHAT would he USE to BUY these homes with???
Maybe he could get a job LANDSCAPING and save up to buy the property???

OR…maybe…He calls a FRIEND he knows he can trust. Tells this FRIEND about the property…Which needs a lot of work and capital to MAKE IT A WORTHWHILE INVESTMENT…Capital this guy KNOWS he doesn’t have…So he calls me…I buy the property…spend tens of thousands of MY MONEY on it…Pay the INSURANCE, UTILITIES, Labor costs for repairs, material costs, and market the property. But…he gets his $9000 THE DAY I BOUGHT IT!!! I had to WAIT for my profit…and that profit was a fraction of the selling price…HIS PROFIT was…ALL PROFIT!!! PAID IN ADVANCE…and on top of it…this wasn’t the FIRST TIME he got a check like that from me…WHY do you think he CALLED???

Believe it or not “POSITIVE” some people DO NOT want to FLIP HOMES.

You’ll understand this when you get more than ONE PROJECT completed. (He’s done one so far…But he’s obviously an EXPERT!)

They don’t want the RISK, they don’t want the worry…BUT…being handed a $9000 check is MORE THAN THEY asked for OR expected!!

Everyone here is WRONG except Positive…Vader, Furnish, Me…he’s got ALL the answers.

But my FAVORITE part of his response???

“NET POSITIVE INCOME OF $1013…Am I MISSING ANYTHING???”

YEA…YOUR MISSING EXACTLY WHAT THEIR MISSING…

The ADDITIONAL $1000/month they need to PAY FOR the monthly cost of Bluecross :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead
Do you READ??? That coverage IN THIS STATE is $2000 a month. Let me slow this down for you…

$ 2 0 0 0 p e r m o n t h.

This is like debating Ross Perot…SAYS NOTHING…But KEEPS TALKING ANYWAY!!!

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

32

Why is the Health industry the only industry, who’s costs goes up as technology improves??

Why was it so easy for an average American to afford to pay cash out of his own pocket for routine hospital visits in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s???

What went wrong FDJake??

33

Here’s the best explanation I’ve seen John…

http://www.startribune.com/business/11093081.html

This is EXACTLY what the Republicans BS people about. They tell them “Let the market set the price. Markets are efficient…They weed out FAT. GOVERMENTS can’t do it CHEAPER.”

It’s all BULLSH*T…

If the Government never got involved you woiuldn’t have ANY of the following…

AIR BAGS in cars
SEAT BELTS in cars
Crash test ratings (which now sell more cars than any other feature)
The 40 hour work week
Paid vacations
Fire codes
Buiding codes
and on and on…

Business is making a KILLING on Health care…You don’t apy someone $125 MILLION a year if there isn’t a TON of FAT in that business.

It’s just like the BANKING SYSTEM…GREED…PURE GREED took that business over…That’s what caused the collapse there…And GREED is what caused the BREAK DOWN of our Health Care system.

34

FDjake… BS ALERT, BS ALERT, BS ALERT! :bs :bs :bs

(From page 2 of this thread) - FDjake - “ask the guy I handed $9000 to last week for FINDING A PROPERTY FOR ME!!!”… (from page 3 of this thread) - & “But…he gets his $9000 THE DAY I BOUGHT IT!!!” & “I buy the property…spend tens of thousands of MY MONEY on it…Pay the INSURANCE, UTILITIES, Labor costs for repairs, material costs, and market the property.” - :bs

So according to your own words from your posts, you bought the property LAST WEEK, handed him the $9K the day you bought it LAST WEEK, spent tens of thousands of YOUR MONEY on it LAST WEEK, all the above repairs, insurance, utillities, labor costs, materials, AND MARKETED IT, CLOSED IT and got your $40K profit ALL since LAST WEEK? You are tripping yourself up here in your own BS, FDJake… :flush

I can’t WAIT to hear the follow-up to this…

35

I’m starting to think FDjake and Furnishedowner are one in the same…

“I simply think we can do a better job taking care of our citizens.” - Here we can agree… it can be done better, just NOT by government… we disagree with the facilitator, YOU believe in the government, I believe in the people…

“If the Government never got involved you woiuldn’t have ANY of the following…” - Another red herring… FDjake, noone is saying the government doesn’t have a role. BTW, alot of those things listed were pushed by THE INSURANCE COMPANIES you decry… Look it up…

“Has this guy EVER actually posted a POSITIVE VIEW on ANY SUBJECT???” - depends on your perspective…

“Maybe he could get a job LANDSCAPING and save up to buy the property???” - No, my point was you have no problem giving a guy $9K for “5 minutes of his time”, but are willig to sit and watch your “friend” suffer waiting for the government to help. Although you COULD, to be consistent in your argument, just GIVE it to him, you instead could always be the HML (to make YOUR profit), and take it back from your friend if it goes bad, which as we’ve seen, you are lightning quick in turn-around… :rolleyes

“GOVERMENTS can’t do it CHEAPER” - they absolutely CANNOT do it cheaper and you have yet to provide an example of social programs that are cheaper or are what the government promised them to be… But you’ll just keep saying it and just be willing to be a lemming and hand EVERYONE ELSE’S money over and coming up with some other red herring… But I’ll keep calling you on it.

“he’s got ALL the answers” - I’ve already said that I don’t have the answers, but you don’t even defend your positions…

“This is like debating Ross Perot…SAYS NOTHING…But KEEPS TALKING ANYWAY!!!” - More personal attacks instead of substance… this time I’ll play along… Funny, but I thought a similiar things about you, but more accurately Bill Clinton; just keep talklking and AVOIDING the questions giving NON-answers… the parallels are uncanny…

36

FDJake…

“But giving their info to some guy who’s NAME I don’t even know…That ain’t happening.” - I’ve already told you, just like with Furnishedowner, you don’t have to give me their info, give them MY email, tell them what I am offering to do and LET THEM DECIDE if they want to talk to me… what are you two afraid of?.. being found out to be full of it, maybe?..

Me thinks thou protestith too much…

37

There is a guy who is a politician now, that was a doctor for many years before.
His name is Dr. Ron Paul. I think we could all learn a lot from him.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Ron_Paul_Health_Care.htm

38
It's as if Positive Outlook doesn't have a clue about the real world that working people are in. If you are in the working poor, every tank of gas is a challenge, your diet is Ramen and Macaroni & Cheese, your clothes come from the Thrift Store, but usually you can't afford to go there. An illness is huge, because how are you going to afford the medicine?

That’s ridiculous! We don’t have poor people in the United States. If you think otherwise, go to Africa or other under-developed countries and talk to the real poor. In the United States, the poor have a place to live, plenty of food to eat (as evidenced by how fat many of them are), a cell phone, a big screen tv, and spending money. I certainly would not call that poor! NOT EVEN CLOSE!

Ramen Noodles? Give me a break. Almost every deadbeat tenant I evict leaves the cabinets and refrigerator FULL of food. Why? Because they didn’t pay for it (I did) and they don’t appreciate it. They’ll just get more free food at their next place.

Mike

39

Maybe if you had rehabbed more than ONE HOME in YOUR LIFE TIME you could follow this a little better.

The property I bought…LAST WEEK…Needs a lot of work. I ALWAYS know exactly what my worst case scenerio is going into a property. Again…If you had ANY experience DOING this you’d know YOU MAKE YOUR MONEY WHEN YOU BUY THEM.

I’ll make $40K on this property with NO PROBLEM…I PAID a finders FEE, as I ALWAYS do, at the date of my PURCHASE.

The $40K is simply my profit margin on this property. That amount was calculated by doing a complete inspection of the home prior to purchase. I had a sales agreement with an escape clause signed the DAY I got the phone call from the electrician. At that point the property is LOCKED UP…I can then spend a few WEEKS having my subs get in there and prepare estimates because I have a “30 days to close” in the P&S. Remember…I CLOSED on this property last week. I didn’t say I signed a P&S agreement last week. Again…If you had done more than ONE PROPERTY you would already know these things…But we ALL know your an EXPERT with just ONE REHAB under his belt!!!

So skip ahead to the CLOSING last week…I have all my costs covered, materials, labor, projected utility costs, insurance…Basically ALL the things ANYONE WITH EXPERIENCE understands…The rehab schedule is in place…AND I CLOSE.

The ELECTRICIAN GETS PAID…THAT DAY…I made $40,000 that day because I have a BUYER ALREADY LINED UP…This buyer had a BACKUP OFFER on another home I completed a few months ago. This project is the same 3 bed, 1 bath style ranch…but in a BETTER area. She JUMPED on it. She grew up in the neighborhood this home is in, and knew what the house she originally missed out on looked like when I got done with it.

See if YOU actually DO this stuff instead of WRITING about it…IT MAKES IT A LOT EASIER.

That buyer has ALREADY signed a P&S on this property. She has already picked out her colors, rugs and details. Her mortgage pre-approval is ROCK SOLID…And this deal is DONE!!

Man you really have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE!!

Stick with the TV watching and POLITICS…At least you can’t get hurt doing that and you don’t end up looking like a ROOKIE WITH NO EXPERIENCE.

40
Man you really have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE!!

Stick with the TV watching and POLITICS…At least you can’t get hurt doing that.

Are all these personal attacks really necessary FDJake? If so, why? I think PositiveOutlook has made many good points in his posts and how many rehabs he’s done has absolutely no bearing on their accuracy. Everyone’s got to start somewhere and he’s miles ahead of the millions of people who never do a deal. Furthermore, taking his time to get deals that are a winner instead of just doing deals for the sake of doing them is also smart. I don’t think attacking someone for acting responsibly is inappropriate.

Mike