Morgan Stanley: "America's Fiscal Trainwreck"

Random Ramblings
21

Here’s one of my ALL TIME FAVORITE HOOCH quotes…“NANCY PELOSI WILL BE FORCED INTO OLD GALS PORN.”

LOL, I thought you’d like that one. :biggrin

You and MARK SANFORD (republican) could REALLY get some things done!!! Maybe a trip together to ARGENTINA!!!

I would be honored to go with Mark to Argentina for some wealthy commodity broker women that he likes to hang out with! A man who actively campaigned against Obama’s pork barrel spending and making public statements that he will REJECT Obama’s stimulus spending for his state. Unfortunately he was FORCED to take the tax payers money by the South Carolina Supreme Court. At least he made his point. Good man. However, he is one of the DEADBEATS too because he has been in office since 1995. He is one of the “good ole boys”.

And maybe you would like to hang to to foreign countries with some of your Liberal gods who were involved in sex scandals. Daniel Inouye caught for sexual harassment, Gus Savage who likes to fondle peace corps volunteers in Africa, Barney Frank who hired a male prostitute who ran a prostitution service from Franks residence in the 1980’s. Maybe that is more the way you swing! Brock Adams, drugging assault and rape. Fred Richmond, soliciting sex from a 16 year old. John Young who increased the salary to a staffer who gave into his sexual advances. Wayne Hays who hired an unqualified secretary for sexual acts, Gerry Studds censured for a sexual relationship with an underage male in 1983. What is it with you democrats and children??? Mel Reynolds 12 counts of sexual assult with a 16 year old child, and Bill Clinton pardoned him before leaving his term. Teddy Kennedy who testified in defense of his nephew who got caught raping a girl. Used his power to get the kid off. And all of our favorite, Bill Clinton. The man who likes to rape some women and shove cigars up others. :biggrin

Wow, you democrats are an unruly bunch.

That little post of yours sums it all up…You are a CLASSIC BULL SH*T REPUBLICAN…

And I’m the “classic bull sh*t republican” :wink:

People who can’t DEBATE their points usually “FLY OFF THE HANDLE”
and you’ve got some real CORKERS in that post of yours…

Strategically placed for your entertainment.

Hooch, did it ever OCCUR to you that a LOT of people take what they get from MASS MEDIA with a grain of salt??? Apparently NOT.

You are correct. A Lot of people do. But you DON’T. You parrot the media like no one I have ever heard. I haven’t even heard even one single original thing out of your mouth. All of it is what has been fed to you. Maybe you should take a little break from the TV once and a while and hear the other side of the story. You seem to have a difficult time debating due to the fact that every post you have is full of sarcasm and changes the subject. Rarely will you even answer a question when asked. You just dodge it like the one I commanded you to answer.

Let’s set up a JOESPH GOEBBLES media system!!! banana elephant
REPUBLICANS can be protrayed as UPSTANDING, PURE, MORALLY STRAIGHT!!! Liberals will be shown as FILTHY, and MORALLY CORRUPT…

No, What a STUPID comment. That figures that you would say something IDIOTIC like that. Lets set up a fair and balance media system just like your drama queen leader Nancy Pelosi wants. We will institute the Fairness Doctrine on the main stream media!

You mean like the IDIOTS who created TARP??? Or the IDIOTS who DENIED that SPECULATORS were driving OIL prices to never before seen highs DURING a recession that THEY say started in the Fall of 2007??
Are these the guy’s you think will SAVE us???

What the heck are you talking about? Who said that ohh foolish one??? Another stupid comment that NO ONE HERE SAID WAS A SOLUTION TO ANYTHING!!!

HOOCH…Do they make you wear a HOCKEY HELMET when you get near anything with sharp edges or ride in a car???

Sometimes… :banghead2

I think you’ve given us all a very interesting glimpse into your MIND…All I can say is…W O W!!!

Interesting and entertaining. Yes, off the wall but it is intentional. The more left the Democrats go shoving socialism down our throats the further right I go. Not too long they will drive me to preach about anarchy as being the solution to fight against forced tyranny.

22

Almost time to get your GRAND DRAGON suit out, HUH???

For a guy who claims I’m no more than a “media parrot” you haven’t been here long enough to realize that during the BOOM years ME and very few others here were the ONLY ones warning people about what eventually happened. This isn’t bragging, it’s just a response to your idiotic statements.

My favorite HOOCH personality trait???

His "claimed"use of the “set up” This is when he gets his @SS handed to him in a debate and then claims he didn’t really MEAN what he wrote.

Nice try Grand Dragon…But you’re not fooling anyone here…

Now put your helmet back one and throw in an “OLD GALS PORNO”

23

Ok, I’m a grand dragon now. And you should put your CAPE back on since you are a political genius who “realized during the BOOM years” what was going to happen and you gave your “warnings” to everyone.

Now answer the question and stop dodging it.

[i]As I said before FD, only an MORON would support Obama against actual UNDENIABLE FACTUAL information. I’ll bet that you will continue that support well beyond the length of time of the GREAT DEPRESSION!!! You WILL STILL say idiotic things like UNCHARTED WATERS and NO MANS LAND as an excuse for him. Or will you change your tune and say things like WE NEVER EXPECTED WHAT “DUBYA” DID WOULD HAVE SUCH A DRASTIC IMPACT GREATER THAN THE GREAT DEPRESSION. No one expected it, not a single person. Is that what you will say when we cross the length of time of the Great Depression?

Exactly where is your timeframe for fixing this OIL problem? At what date do you DRAW the LINE and admit that the HACK YOU VOTED FOR has caused MORE damage to our economy than any president in history COMBINED? ANSWER THE QUESTION AND DO NOT DODGE IT LIKE YOU LIBS TYPICALLY DO!!![/i]

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OK…

In REALITY…Where “I” live…Obama was faced with a finacial crisis that NO ONE…REPUBLICAN or DEMOCRAT had ever seen in THEIR lifetimes. Notice I said THEIR lifetimes. Sure there’s people ALIVE who lived through it…But TODAY is NOT 1930 and anyone in power THEN is LONG GONE.

As far as Obama goes…You act like I BLINDLY support EVERY WORD he utters. In my opinion he was the LESSER of two evils. I didn’t see McCain as a savior and don’t see Obama as one…YOU are the only one that uses that term.

If he screws this economy up…HE DESERVES the blame. But in REALITY…He’s been there just 6 MONTHS…Cripes it takes longer than 6 months for most people to dig THEMSELVES out of a CREDIT CARD hole never mind a nation of financial IDIOTS!!

Some of the stuff he proposes isn’t bad, some of it IS.

Since we’re on the subject let me explain a few things about BUSH from MY perspective.

  1. I honestly think he was one of the DUMBEST Presidents we’ve ever seen.

  2. I also ADMIRED his ability to STAY a coarse in the face of incredible opposition. His SURGE plan for IRAQ…WORKED!!! I know a LOT of Democrats that would have got the hell out of Dodge WAY before, never mind a SURGE…He stuck to his guns and was proven right. That takes B@LLS and he had 'em.

  3. If he hadn’t BULLSH*TTED the COUNTRY about Iraq, the SURGE wouldn’t have been needed and in all likelyhood BIN LADEN’s HEAD would now be mounted at a ranch house in Crawford Texas. He COMPLETELY SCREWED that up. Iraq took resources we didn;t have away from the REAL ATTACKERS of 911. Both sides now agree on this.

Now onto OIL…

Believe it or NOT…The ONLY way you’re gonna get STUPID AMERICANS to drive smaller cars and SEEK OUT energy efficient appliances is to run the COST of energy THROUGH THE ROOF!!!
$5.00 gas would have Americans FLOCKING to buy 40-50 MPG cars, electrics, hybrids, ect. Toyota can’t GIVE AWAY new Prius’s since gas dropped to $2,00. BUT FULL SIZE SUV’s are selling like hot cakes again<<< GO figure? Heating oil at $4.00/ gallon would have Americans putting in SOLAR on every roof in the country. Electricity at TWICE the current rates would have Flourescent bulbs FLYING off the shelves at Home Depots across the country…

Theres’ only ONE PROBLEM with this plan…

We’ve SCREWED this country up so bad financially (WE…not dems, not repubs) that ANY of these measures inacted RIGHT NOW would absolutley CRUSH whats left of our economy.

That’s the paradox…What we NEED to do, CAN’T be done because we are a Nation of Financial IDIOTS who don’t even understand how their own MORTGAGES work!!!

Obamas gonna do what he’s gonna do…Bush sent us to WAR on a BS story…That’s pretty bad in my opinion…Seeing KIDS BLOWN apart for @SSHOLES that HATE US and DANCE IN THE STREETS when we LEAVE seems a huge waste to me. Obama will have his screw ups too…The HOLE he’s digging is probably going to be just ONE of them. I HONESTLY don’t think it REALLY matters who sits in the White House. BOTH sides have proven equally adept at screwing that position up.

If BUSH hadn’t BS’d us on Iraq…I think I would actually admire the man. Just think of the MONEY HE BLEW there…TRILLIONS…FOR WHAT??? So those sh*theads could have PARADES on the DAY we left??? Our boys DIED for those MORONS…and that’s how they say THANKS???

How’s that HOOCH???

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.Cripes it takes longer than 6 months for most people to dig THEMSELVES out of a CREDIT CARD hole never mind a nation of financial IDIOTS!!

The thing is HE is DIGGING a CREDIT HOLE, not DIGGING OUT of one.


Some of the stuff he proposes isn’t bad, some of it IS.

I sure would like to hear what IS bad from you once and a while. All I seem to read is praise and glory from our leader.

Since we’re on the subject let me explain a few things about BUSH from MY perspective.

Don’t change the subject to Bush FD. I want to know Exactly When you feel Obama should have had a reasonable opportunity to FIX the economy (within months based on the factual information I provided) and Exactly how you propose we pay back the Enormous debt he created. Who exactly do you think is going to have to pay it back? Poor people? The middle class? No, it will be the upper middle class to the wealthy. BUT the upper middle class will pay the brunt. IF he has a tax hike on the upper middle class HE will give the same tax hike to the super wealthy. The Ultra wealthy will not pay any more in taxes than the upper middle class or the lower income wealthy people in the 100K range Therfore, HE will make everyone take a hit but himself. He made 4 million dollars last year. A few percent increase in taxes is a huge difference between a guy who makes a hundred or two thousand a year VS a guy like Obama who makes a Million or 4 per year.

Now onto OIL…
Believe it or NOT…The ONLY way you’re gonna get STUPID AMERICANS to drive smaller cars and SEEK OUT energy efficient appliances is to run the COST of energy THROUGH THE ROOF!!!

Agreed, the Europeans did it and that is why they ride in micro cars. BUT, WHY THE OBJECTIVE OF SMALLER CARS? Man Made Global warming is a bunch of crap. Good idea to lessen our dependence on OIL but bad idea to hurt the coal industry or our oil producing industry. The United States is the 2nd largest producer of crude oil in the WORLD! Less than 1% behind Saudi Arabia. We produce 10.7% of the entire worlds crude and use every bit of it. We consume 25.9 % of the world crude.

What is the reason for being Energy Efficient? Why not produce lots of energy in EVERY possible manor and use lots of energy? And develop hydrogen technology to a point where it’s production is so cheap that it will put those oil bullies completely out of business?

$5.00 gas would have Americans FLOCKING to buy 40-50 MPG cars, electrics, hybrids, ect. Toyota can’t GIVE AWAY new Prius’s since gas dropped to $2,00. BUT FULL SIZE SUV’s are selling like hot cakes again<<< GO figure?

And WHY should be be forced to drive Prius’s??? I NEED my FULL SIZE SUV and PICKUP to pull my 17 foot car hauler that I take rehab material and tenants garbage they leave behind to the dump with. My car hauler would rip the drive train right out of a Prius!

Heating oil at $4.00/ gallon would have Americans putting in SOLAR on every roof in the country. Electricity at TWICE the current rates would have Flourescent bulbs FLYING off the shelves at Home Depots across the country…

Flourescent bulbs are both expensive and cause MAJOR mercury contamination when broken. The new LED’s will be the thing of the future. And solar is still highly inefficient! So raise costs of energy so they SEEM to be better? WHY?

That’s the paradox…What we NEED to do, CAN’T be done because we are a Nation of Financial IDIOTS who don’t even understand how their own MORTGAGES work!!!

Very much agreed. We are taught by GOVERNMENT schools. THEY have made the determination that WE are better off being FINANCIAL IDIOTS. THEY DECIDE WHAT IS ON THE CURRICULUM. Another government screw up. DOES EVERYTHING THEY TOUCH BREAK? This is why I am for STATE and local control. NOT FEDERAL control. Besides the fact that they have NO constitutional right to dictate to ANY state what they can and can not do, but they do it EVERY day with threats of no funding unless they comply. They have taken our tax dollars and used them for their ultimate power.

BOTH sides have proven equally adept at screwing that position up.

And we don’t have to TAKE it. We shouldn’t just sleep through it. Something HAS to be done about it. That is why I am for THROWING every single Republican OUT of office. Every one of them!

So those sh*theads could have PARADES on the DAY we left??? Our boys DIED for those MORONS…and that’s how they say THANKS???

THANK YOU!!! Finally a REAL AMERICAN comment.

How’s that HOOCH???

You still dodged my reasonable timeframe for Obama question. You can’t just support his bailouts, Afghanistan war, crap economy, etc forever. There HAS to be a timeframe where at this or that point he is officially a deadbeat like the rest of these clowns. Don’t just roll with the mainstream media and figure that timeframe will be when they say it is. When they have determined that enough is enough on the 8th year of his term, or 8th year of his wifes following term.

For Real, he has to be held accountable at some point in time. After all, he IS the president. It’s not Whenever it’s fixed it’s fixed. We don’t know, etc. Each and every recession in the past CAN be used as a guideline. They were all handed to someone else who didn’t create them! Bush didn’t create the WORLD recession anyways. Bush does not have that much power. OIL DOES… it effects EVERYONE. And that is the reason that even Newt Gingrich got on TV with drama queen Pelosi and did a “Man made global warming” commercial.

EVERY oil consuming country in the WORLD did not make all of the EXACT SAME MISTAKES at the EXACT SAME TIME and crumble ALL AT ONCE. There is 1 single thing the broke the world economy and it leads directly back to those countries who GAINED SIGNIFICANT WEALTH during while the others fell apart. Who are the? They are the OPEC countries, and non member oil producers like RUSSIA. Russia went from dirt poor to another formidable competitor again OVERNIGHT!

Reduction of the World dependence of OIL is CRITICAL! And Man Made Global Warming is the solution!

I will “suck” you into my “conspiracy theory”. It’s just a matter of time. :biggrin

I will report more and more evidence. If you are willing to open your mind beyond your government media complex spoon fed information, you WILL see MANY signs of it within the political atmosphere. MANY!

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I think Obama WILL be held FULLY accountable…You must have FORGOT where we BOTH live…That MEDIA you talk about will turn on this guy in a SECOND if it looks like RATINGS will increase because of those reports. And those rating WILL increase for negative stories if this economy gets WORSE. He’ll have no where to hide.

Right now he’s got a free pass. I have NO IDEA what type of “TIME FRAME” to give this guy…How long does it take to FIX 30 years of FISCAL bullsh*t??? They ALL had their hands in the jar…REAGAN (who I greatly admire) was the first one to tap the Social Security cookie jar…He did it in an attempt to pull us out of a terrible recession caused by another IDIOT Jimmy Carter. Once they started living off the SS teat, it was all down hill from there.

I never said you couldn’t drive the biggest SUV in the world if you want…I simply stated a FACT…HIGHER GAS PRICES lead directly to the purchase of SMALLER CARS…We saw it in the summer of 2008 when dealers WOULD NOT TAKE SUV’s in trade for small cars…They REFUSED THEM…That STILL boogles my mind…On a side note…Yours truely purchased a beautiful Ford Explorer of DIRT from a American idiot who thought that oil was going to $250/barrel like the MEDIA told him.

In fact…If you look way back in my previous posts I believe I mentioned this AND added that buying a large SUV THEN would prove to be a bargain.

I disagree with you on global warming…There’s SOLID photographic evidence of glaciers that have been around for THOUSANDS of years just melting…I live in a coastal area, a lot of my friends are fisherman. Even they are seeing tropical fish as far north as Mass and Maine. Fish that have NEVER been seen this far north…Ocean temps have definitely risen…What’s debatable is the CAUSE. I don’t think you have the expertise or education to really argue this…I know I don’t.
I read some interesting studies from both sides…The overall conclusion is the planet IS warming.

As far as OIL goes…I think you’re wrong…I understand your arguement…But…that spike in OIL had NOTHING to do with ARABS…
I honestly believe it was another ASSET BUBBLE…TOO much money. chasing a limited supply of a product creates EXACTLY what occured in the oil markets. That was my point in mentioning $30 oil. I know oil is at $60+ now…The POINT was the ARABS took a BEATING when oil broke to $30…They were POURING money into their own banks to keep them solvent. These are very smart people…a SLOW deflation in oil would have been MUCH easier on them…It didn’t happen because they had no control. When unregulated hedge funds PILE into a market, then ALL head for the door at the same time…It creates a COLLAPSE of pricing. It also removes those hedge funds from the face of the earth…These guys were loooking for $250/barrel oil…They got $30 oil and it CRUSHED an entire industry. ARAB banks included.

The Arabs would have been THRILLED with STEADY $70 oil…That price spike, created by SPECULATION hurt ARAB economies as much as the rest of the world. My Dubai example is proof…That entire country makes Florida look like a healthy market…It doesn’t matter if TOURISM is their man business…That BUILDING BOOM was financed with OIL MONEY from ARAB banks…At this point we agree…OIL KILLED the economy…It killed the ARAB economy and the WORLD economy…Why would they dio that to themselves???

27

Jake,
I too admire President Bush’s tenacity to do what he believed in even in the face of overwhelming media opposition. And I’m with you on the speculation on oil. Too much money pouring in from people trying to capitalize on something. Just like every other bubble - it had to burst sometime. I remember seeing a report that broke down the financial components of oil prices when a barrel was about $125 or so. Speculation was a very large part of that. Anyone who has taken statistics knows you can spin things like that pretty much however you want, but it was still interesting nonetheless.

All this talk about Hooch and his hockey helmet means my mental picture of him is Special Ed from Crank Yankers. YAY!!!

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I disagree with you on global warming…There’s SOLID photographic evidence of glaciers that have been around for THOUSANDS of years just melting…I live in a coastal area, a lot of my friends are fisherman. Even they are seeing tropical fish as far north as Mass and Maine. Fish that have NEVER been seen this far north…Ocean temps have definitely risen…What’s debatable is the CAUSE. I don’t think you have the expertise or education to really argue this…I know I don’t.
I read some interesting studies from both sides…The overall conclusion is the planet IS warming.

The planet DID warm over the past 100 years by 1 single degree. That is it. And it DID cool due to less solar activity last year by almost one degree which is the quickest drop in temperature in recorded history. Both facts that can NOT be denied.

Also about your ice:
http://www.iceagenow.com/Growing_Glaciers.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517035,00.html
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Global-Warming/Antarctic-ice-growing-not-shrinking-/articleshow/4418558.cms
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25348657-401,00.html

ETC.

Regarding the “bubbles”. I find it interesting that you say that the ENTIRE WORLD WITH EXCEPTION of those who produce MORE OIL THAN THEY USE, All had the exact same bubbles and all collapsed at the EXACT SAME TIME.

AND, I just decided that I am going to compare Obama’s effectiveness of getting us out of the economic slump with HU Jintao’s (Chinas presidents) effectiveness of getting them out. WELL, They are now out, SO Obama is now OFFICIALLY A FAILURE! :cool

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I didn’t “SAY” the oil bubble collapsed…IT HAPPENED.
Oil went from $147/barrel to $30 in 6 MONTHS!!! That’s a BUBBLE followed by a collapse…The rest of the MESS just followed the MONEY around the planet.

I would be VERY, VERY careful of patting the Chinese on the back for a job well done just yet.

They are having RIOTS over there right now. The BIG, BIG problem with China is this…

When the GOVERMENT took land from FARMERS and placed them in factories it created a GIANT PROBLEM…FEEDING THESE WORKERS!!!

When these people were subsistance farming the Goverment had NOTHING to do with them…If they had a good year farming…THEY ATE!!! If they didn’t they DIED…When you pull those people off those farms and build FACTORIES ON TOP OF THAT LAND…You now OWN those PEOPLE…You better keep your economy spinning because if they go hungry…THEY COME AFTER THE GOVERMENT.

China is blowing smoke up your @ss and you can’t see it . They’re spending HUGE $$$$$ to keep these people working in factories that produce items that people AREN’T BUYING…At least not buying in the numbers they were in 2007. The USA is Chinas biggest market…We know for a FACT consumers here aren’t buying anything…

Be careful congradulating CHINA on their economic stimulus…They built out HUGE CAPACITY that is now UNDER UTILIZED…Goverment STIMULUS can only keep that going for so long…Then the REAL PROBLEMS will surface.

But I do agree CHINA is in much better shape financially than we are.

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I am not saying that China doesn’t have some major problems. It is my prediction that the next big civil war in the World will be in China. China is drastically divided with their new capitalism. The super rich and the dirt poor. The super rich are those who leave the farms for the city. I’m glad that we have so much control over their economy. That will keep em in check and from attacking us. After all, they did declare to the world a few years ago that we are global terrorists. But they still are our “most favored nation”. Doesn’t make a lot of since to me but whatever.

I would rather have India make most of our products. They don’t get paid anything either. Much of Africa gets significantly less than China but almost every one of Africa’s countries are at civil war. My manufacturing clients of my ad agency will move their Chineese plants to Africa if it settles down. Just too risky right now. My textile clients are still in Mexico from NAFTA but are seriously considering India due to the fact that Mexico is allowing it’s people now to unionize, demand higher wages and the courts are becoming pro employee.

Regarding the “bubbles”. I find it interesting that you say that the ENTIRE WORLD WITH EXCEPTION of those who produce MORE OIL THAN THEY USE, All had the exact same bubbles and all collapsed at the EXACT SAME TIME.

FD, look into the “bubbles” in all of the other oil using countries and see what they were. They all have the same bubbles. The SAME bubbles that all popped at the exact SAME time. Whenever an economy crashes it makes it look like there was a “bubble” in the industries that were impacted. Because during good times you rise from the last bad time. Then the economy craps out and you go back down quickly, hence a bubble. BUT what made the economy crash? OIL did.

When you increase the cost of goods, ones that you absolutely have to have, and there are people who are paycheck to paycheck already, how do you think they will be when they have an additional few hundred bucks in gas a month and then an additional few hundred in groceries as they have to have gas to get to the store?

OIL crapped out the economy. OIL caused the people to not be able to make their mortgage payments. Then the bottom dropped out of the real estate market as there is a significantly higher supply of houses than the demand to buy them. And it got worse and worse to the point that housing prices reversed. Now these people who didn’t have money are really screwed because their house is worth less than their note.

Obviously the banks who did the risky loans to the paycheck to paycheck people crashed and burned when they could not make their payments. BUT the banks that did not do subprimes DID NOT CRASH. Huge banks like BB&T experienced NO damage as they did not make risky loans. AND thousands upon thousands of little local banks didn’t either.

Oil dropped the bottom out.

We can debate forever WHO caused the OIL problem. I think the middle east in retaliation to our “attack on Islam”, just as they did during the Oil Embargo that Venezuela ended. THEN the investors jump on the bandwagon, Russia jumps on the bandwagon, the oil companies like Exxon jumps on the bandwagon, the gas stations jump on a little, etc.

You think that the OPEC monopoly is a bunch of little angels who would never screw over America. Well, I know different based on historical information. You think that the entire thing was created by investors. They just randomly out of the blue decided to jam us on oil. They would have to get together and price fix for that to happen.

I think they jammed us after they saw OPEC jamming us. They jumped at quick money. Just like they did after OPEC hammered us during the Oil Embargo. Check what happened to the stock market during the Oil Embargo.

The World leaders are fully aware of the reliance the world has on the middle east. It is imperative that we end this as it is a not only a national security issue but it is a world security issue! Tell the middle east that they have us by the balls and there is nothing we can presently do about it as the technology is not yet developed and they will SQUEEZE. So don’t tell them and create BUNK science called MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING. And pass bills like CAP and TRADE to force new technology and the reduction on the dependence of CARBON based energy.

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You never saw me write… “OPEC is a bunch of little angels” NEVER!!

My point is simple…

IF…opec was able to run oil to $147/barrel…WHY…wouldn’t they KEEP it there??? They were making TRILLIONS, wealth was POURING from OUR country into THEIRS at a rate never before seen.

THEN OIL DROPPED TO $32/barrel??? They HAD us…If their intention (as you claim) was to destroy us or PUNISH us, WHY STOP??? and WHY let that price drop so far, so fast, that it even HURT THEM???

What your suggesting here simply doesn’t make sense. IF however that price spike was due to speculation…We have an explanation.
Speculators RUSHED IN, and when the price couldn’t move ABOVE $150…They ALL ran for the doors…They hit those doors in such great numbers that OIL went from $147 to $32 in 6 MONTHS…and DOZENS and DOZENS of HEDGE FUNDS that COULDN’T get out… VANISHED from existance. Those are facts.

Come on HOOCH…It was a CLASSIC bubble that went bust.

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The funding for war in Iraq will total $680bill thru sept.Not the $trillions you spoke of.Maybe you too have billions/trillions all jammed together,it’s hard at this rate of printing money to keep it straight.I agree a massive loss of money,but let’s not forget it’s the same amount as obama’s stimulous.Which has nothing to show for.

The simple fact is this guy has no clue how to fix anything.The sooner everyone agrees,the massive amount of money we’ll save in his experiments.He should’ve stuck with his thought in 2004"I believe a person should know how to do a job before trying to get it"when asked if he was gonna run for pres.Then ten minutes later,decided he would run. :rolleyes

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Can anybody show me a scenario throughout history that anybody has every solved a problem through spending money you dont have? I cant think of one…

Theres been several times where lowering taxes and such have helped the economy though…

Just a little… odd… to me.

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IF…opec was able to run oil to $147/barrel…WHY…wouldn’t they KEEP it there??? They were making TRILLIONS, wealth was POURING from OUR country into THEIRS at a rate never before seen.
THEN OIL DROPPED TO $32/barrel??? They HAD us…If their intention (as you claim) was to destroy us or PUNISH us, WHY STOP??? and WHY let that price drop so far, so fast, that it even HURT THEM???

Why stop before at the oil embargo? Which was the actual point in history when the dollar was no longer considered “good as gold”. In late 1973 the United States started getting real serious about using other alternative energy. We were hurting and it had to stop. By 1974 the plans were ready for implementation and funding was all that was in the way. They then drastically dropped their prices and ALL of the alternative energy efforts went bust. There was no longer a dire need to end the pain. It was over.

OPEC is NOT stupid FD. They know if they keep it up for too long it will be the end of their industry. If the world is literally forced to develop other technology than we will do it. We will do it for survival. They know that! They also know that you can cause pain to people for a certain period of time and they will tolerate it. And the weakness of human nature to give up on the alternative methods the second the pain is over. They understand human nature FD. The same way any big corporation does. The difference here is they are a monopoly and they can control the outcome to look like whatever they want. They can drop the prices so they start sucking wind (off their insane profits) loudly proclaim they are the victim and that they need to adjust oil prices. They can adjust prices over night if they want to!!! DON’T forget, they are a monopoly. They don’t EVER HAVE to experience ANY PAIN. Any pain they experience is self created! One must fully understand the power of a monopoly to recognize that they NEVER HAVE TO EXPERIENCE ANY TYPE OF FINANCIAL PAIN UNLESS THEY WANT TO.

It’s a big game FD. The same kind of game I play when I buy houses. When I hoodwink my seller into thinking that it is actually them who is twisting my arm. That they are the one who is asking too much from me and all I’m trying to do is just get a FAIR deal. When in reality I’m taking them to the cleaners.

IF however that price spike was due to speculation…We have an explanation.
Speculators RUSHED IN, and when the price couldn’t move ABOVE $150…They ALL ran for the doors…

I am not telling you that speculators didn’t contribute to a large degree. I AM telling you that the speculators “RUSHED IN” as a direct result of the spike in oil prices that OPEC created. The EXACT same thing that happened during the Oil Embargo.

Come on HOOCH…It was a CLASSIC bubble that went bust.

The A-Rabs created the bubble. Overnight world demand for OIL DID NOT CREATE THE BUBBLE!

And to conclude, the “game” has come to an end for a while. They boosted their oil prices back up to make a nice profit. Well over what it was before even though world demand for oil is down. People have become accustom to the high prices. When they see $148 barrels and compare that with the still high $60 barrels it seems like chump change. They are now HAPPY with the $3.00 gas. OPEC will not increase supply as they are doing very well right now. Ram it hard, drop it like a rock and moderately high prices will be accepted.

T Boone Pickens is sh*t out of luck with the rest of the alternative options. JUST LIKE THE ALTERNATIVES THAT WERE BEING DEVELOPED AFTER THE OIL EMBARGO. The only hope left is the “Man made global warming” fraud and “CAP and Trade” to force it. Therefore, I support “man made global warming” even though it is a complete HOAX. I DO NOT support Cap and Trade as it WILL hurt business. In order for a company to grow they will have to buy carbon credits. But there will only be a certain number of credits available. So those who WILL be able to buy those limited credits will be big business. They will be the only ones who will have the money to buy this precious ticket to growth and expansion. Energy costs will go through the roof and there will be a massive transferal of wealth from the people to the government. The dirty bastards are stealing from you again (in the name of a HOAX). WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

35

I believe the total cost of BOTH the Iraq and Afgan wars are approaching $1 Trillion dollars at this very time. As we BOTH know, NEITHER one of these conflicts are OVER, so the cost WILL be a MORE than $1 trillion dollars very shortly.

The web site…http://costofwar.com/ has an actual TICKER that calculates the cost by the second

You are right though…It hasn’t hit 1 trillion YET…but what’s a hundred billion now a days??? :banghead :banghead

As far as FIXING the economy…What the HELL are we talking about??? There’s no FIXING this economy in MONTHS???..Are you serious??? This took DECADES to create…It’ll take a DECADE to dig out of…

Like I said before…Whether Obama gets this right or he falls on his face, it all depends on ONE thing…SENTIMENT. If people THINK things are getting better, things WILL get better. We all know REAL ESTATE, as investors we know how VITAL market setiment is to PROPERTY VALUES…It’s NO DIFFERENT in the broader economy. Look at the BUSH rebates…Did anyone REALLY think giving everyone a check for $600 was going to FIX anything??? It was done in an attempt to get the sentiment ball rolling.

Here’s a fascinating article written on www.itulip.com These guys have NAILED this entire MELTDOWN going back 5 years.
Check it out…THIS is what is LOOKING back at us from the abyss. It starts off with some details regarding car sales…make sure you read ALL of it. There’s some VERY SCARY comparisons to the 1930’s in there that must be read.
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?p=107426#post107426

Hooch…You bring up some great points…And I don’t disagree with you on a lot of them…Like I said…Oil was a BUBBLE created by over speculation…Maybe the ARABS gave the snowball the first big PUSH…But the money chasers gave it the SPEED all BUBBLES need to exist.
If there’s no…“YOU GOTTA GET IN TODAY” There’s no bubble…The ARABS didn’t create that…SPECULATORS did. But I do understand your points Hooch.

36

Quote from Hooch: " MAN-MADE GLOBAL WARNING IS A PILE OF CRAP!"

Quote from Dr. James Hansen, Director of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, July 9, 2009, in a private policy-letter:

"Science has exposed the climate threat and revealed this INCONVENIENT TRUTH (my italics): IF WE BURN EVEN HALF THE EARTH’S REMAINING FOSSIL FUELS WE WILL DESTROY THE PLANET AS HUMANITY KNOWS IT.

The added emissions of heat-trapping carbon dioxide will set our Earth irreversibly onto a course towards an ice-free state, a course that will initiate a chain reaction of irreversible and catastrophic climate changes".

Dr. Hansen opposes the Waxman-Markey Bill in Congress as a “disaster course”. He wants different legislation with teeth in it.

He explained in his policy letter that “The concentration of CO2 now in our atmosphere stands at 387 parts per million, the highest level in 600,000 years and more than 100ppm higher than the amount at the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. Burning just the oil and gas sitting in known fields will drive atmospheric CO2 well over 400 ppm and ignite a devil’s cauldron of melted icecaps, bubbling permafrost, and combustible forests from which there will be no turning back.”

Now let’s see…whom should we believe? Hooch, a southern Real Estate rehabber, or Dr. Hansen, the director of the Goddard Institute, who just testified on Capitol Hill?

Furnishedowner

37

Hooch’s arguements on global warming are actually based on YEARS of study.

Hooch has noticed CHANGES in the OLD GAL Porn actresses he has watched over the years. With the advent of High Definition TV he is now able to TRACK the WRINKLES on these woman. In an exhaustive MULTI YEAR STUDY conducted in his darkened basement TV room, he has noticed that these wrinkles are NOT caused from over exposure to OZONE or dangerous ultra violet rays like those wacky SCIENTISTS want us to believe…They are in FACT caused by simple FRICTION. Thereby throwing out the entire argument for global warming.

In a separate, but equally ground breaking study…He makes a powerful argument uncovering a very dangerous trend…Apparently the ARABS have been slowly LOWERING the OIL content in various over the counter moisturizers. More on that later…

38

Furnishedowner,
There are 31,000 scientists, over 9000 with PhD’s who disagree with the pseudo-science put forth as undeniable evidence of human caused global warming. The problem I see here is that the debate (read THINKING) is being squelched by the environmentalists. They want their interpretation of global warming to be universally accepted without question. Dogma is dogma. Please don’t stop using common sense.

http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/al_gore_global_warming/2008/05/19/97307.html

JP

39

Good one, fdjake! Please tell me that there ISN’T “Old Boy Porn” too!

jfpen.

Yes, I read the article. I know there is disagreement. Think of the 2 options:

  1. Do nothing. Carry on burning as much fossil fuel as we can mine or pump out of the ground or shale. Hope that the other side that’s screaming, “Fire!” is wrong. China is putting a new coal-burning plant on line EVERY DAY.

  2. Accept the world-wide MAJORITY scientific consensus that global warming is occurring, and at an alarming rate. We may reach the “tipping point” soon where we can’t back up. The effect will just exponentially increase.

If we do nothing, ignore the science, then we may get to see the end of life as we know it. Others have done the prognostications on this: famine, refugee population shifts, strife over ever-scarcer resources, wholesale death of species of plants, birds, animals, fishes.

IT SEEMS INCREDIBLY STUPID TO ME TO TAKE THAT RISK. THE DO-NOTHING CONSEQUENCES ARE JUST TOO GREAT.

Why not err on the safe side? Support our government as it tries to put restrictions in place on CO2 emissions. Yes, some industries will take a financial hit. Yes, nobody is going to get it perfectly right. Not with the first legislation, maybe not with the tenth. But damn it, to not do ANYTHING could be lethally short-sighted. We may get what we deserve.

Do any of you remember the thousands of doctors who disputed the first “SMOKING IS HARMFUL” studies? Doctors were routinely shown on TV with a cigarette in their hand. The tobacco companies mounted huge campaigns to sell smoking as beneficial: It relieves stress, keeps you slim, a pleasant relaxing custom. Doctors prescribed Menthol Cigarettes for treating colds and sore throats! Thousands of doctors, smokers themselves, disagreed vehemently with those first studies. We all know how that science finally panned out. It took decades, and Congressional hearings, before the consensus stuck: Smoking can kill you. And thousands died, and continue to die from irreparable lung damage, emphysema and cancer. Cigarettes kill.

This scientific dispute has much graver consequences; we can’t choose to not be on the planet.

Excess CO2 kills too. I was at Haunemia (spelling?) Bay, outside of Honolulu, snorkeling on our honeymoon. It was a magical experience with pink and purple coral, incredible black-and-yellow striped fish, so much underwater color and movement that we were dazzled. We stayed until sunburned.

We went back when the kids were about 10 and 12. It appeared dead! The coral was slimy grayish strands. Dull fish swam about in the murky water. Never have we been so saddened and disappointed. We were told that nobody knew why the coral reef was dying, but those studying it thought it was due to changes in the CO2 level of the water. That sensitive ecosystem couldn’t handle the rapid change.

A question for you: How many of those 31,000 nay-sayer scientists have a financial reason for disputing this new science?

Several of you have written: Don’t believe the media! Well, I’m not. I am trusting what I personally have learned. I wrote earlier on how I got to tag along to a Global Warming Conference in Miami Beach 3-4 years ago. There were dozens of scientists there from the whole world.

THEY WERE SCARED. The results from their studies and computer models were coming in, and they were worse than anticipated. Scientists like to report facts. The consensus from that conference was unanimous. I WAS THERE, just listening and observing. I am not basing my opinion on some article, but I became a believer at that conference.

I have a relative, a scientist at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico. I can also tell you that they believe there that global warming is happening.

For God’s sake, what’s the worst that can happen if we put legislation in place to slow global warming? That maybe it won’t work? That the cost of doing business might go up? That things get complicated?

I’m backing the scientific community and our government to limit the rise in CO2 as fast as possible.

The rest of you just keep puffing those cigarettes.

Furnishedowner

40

1. Do nothing. Carry on burning as much fossil fuel as we can mine or pump out of the ground or shale. Hope that the other side that’s screaming, “Fire!” is wrong. China is putting a new coal-burning plant on line EVERY DAY.

I told you why they are screaming fire. Reduce the dependence on oil. There are significantly MORE scientists that say that “man made” global warming is complete garbage. JFPen is right.

2. Accept the world-wide MAJORITY scientific consensus that global warming is occurring, and at an alarming rate. We may reach the “tipping point” soon where we can’t back up. The effect will just exponentially increase.

The MAJORITY of scientists say “man made” global warming is NOT occurring. Also, last year the globe cooled to a greater degree than it EVER HAS in one year!!! WHY DO YOU KEEP IGNORING THE FACTS? I don’t get it. Is that what the libs do? Ignore UNDENIABLE FACTS because they don’t coincide with what they WANT to believe?

If we do nothing, ignore the science, then we may get to see the end of life as we know it. Others have done the prognostications on this: famine, refugee population shifts, strife over ever-scarcer resources, wholesale death of species of plants, birds, animals, fishes.

MY GOD. You really have been sucked into this HOAX. In the past 100 years the globe warmed by 1 degree. YES THAT IS IT!!! Sorry Charley but 1 degree doesn’t mean Sh*t. THE EARTH USED TO BE MUCH WARMER WHEN BOTH ANIMALS AND PLANTS LIVED ON IT!!!

IT SEEMS INCREDIBLY STUPID TO ME TO TAKE THAT RISK. THE DO-NOTHING CONSEQUENCES ARE JUST TOO GREAT.

Will you please tell me HOW you are going to CONTROL the SUNS ACTIVITY? Because CARBON has NOTHING to do with it.

Why not err on the safe side? Support our government as it tries to put restrictions in place on CO2 emissions. Yes, some industries will take a financial hit.

Ohh my God. You are even prepared to wipe out jobs and industries ALL FOR A HOAX!

Smoking can kill you. And thousands died, and continue to die from irreparable lung damage, emphysema and cancer. Cigarettes kill.

So what. Vitamins can kill you. Walking across the street can kill you. Too much water can kill you. And those things can kill you within hours. You libs are freaken nuts. What gives you people the right to monitor what anyone does. People should have the right to do whatever they want as long as it is not physically hurting others. You libs are completely off the wall these days. You guys used to be strongly for the rights of people. What happened to you?

A question for you: How many of those 31,000 nay-sayer scientists have a financial reason for disputing this new science?

A question for you. How many of those couple thousand scientists that say “man” is killing the planet have a financial reason for creating this bogus science?

Several of you have written: Don’t believe the media! Well, I’m not. I am trusting what I personally have learned. I wrote earlier on how I got to tag along to a Global Warming Conference in Miami Beach 3-4 years ago. There were dozens of scientists there from the whole world.

Why don’t you “tag along” on another conference. One that has WAY more scientists at it. One that proves that “man made” global warming science is a hoax?

For God’s sake, what’s the worst that can happen if we put legislation in place to slow global warming? That maybe it won’t work? That the cost of doing business might go up? That things get complicated?

That people will lose their jobs. That the government will get rich off MORE theft from the people. That we all will pay significantly more for EVERYTHING. ETC, ETC, ETC. All over a fraud put in place to lower our dependence on oil.

I’m backing the scientific community and our government to limit the rise in CO2 as fast as possible.

I’m backing the larger scientific community that says it’s a bunch of crap.