Investors don't want to learn how to fish...

General Real Estate Investing
1

Reading the forums, meeting with new investors and agents who want to learn the business, I am quickly getting convinced with what Dan Kennedy says:

“People don’t want to learn how to fish, they just want you to give them a fish”

We are now living in a time where people think they can get rich by listening and taking notes. People want a step-by-step instructions that will guarantee output and provide zero risk without knowing it. If you try and teach them how to do it that involves effort on their part, they won’t. What is sad is that they don’t realize it and living in denial which makes it extremely difficult to get through to them to help them.

People will hear, nod, take notes, agree with what you say, with what they read, disagree if you tell them they are not doing it, they THINK they are doers while they are SPECTATORS and swear by it and when they fail, they always have an execuse.

Here are some questions I have been asking to prove my point:

  1. If I absolutely guarantee you that if you give me $500, I will give you back $2000. Would you give me the $500? The answer is always yes.

  2. What if I told you how to spend $500 and you could get $2000 in return, would you do it? surprisingly the answer is yes as well, but when I take them up on their answer, none would do it.

The excuse (and I repeat excuse) I get is they do not have the money. The reality is that they are not willing to risk the money they have, but that is a different story.

The reality is that people are unwilling to risk their money unless they feel the return is guaranteed. They will not spend $500 on marketing unless they know it will absolutely works. Even if they took the risk and done it once or twice, if they see no or poor return, they will not do it anymore.

One of the Realtors/Investors challenged me on this. She has been a realtor/investors for years but still at the same level when she started and always complaining about lack of results. She took every course out there, recommends courses to others, she seems to know what works and what doesn’t, but never follow through or commits to something.

She challenged me on my theory and said this is not true (and it is not in her own mind because she doesn’t think this applies to her), people just don’t have the money. I asked her if she would call the FSBOs in the paper all day trying to get a listing? she said no because thats just not for her.
At that point I asked her if I paid her $500 right now to make these same phone calls on my behalf, would she do it? her husband smiled and looked at her… she was speachless… she got my point… See, if she did it, she could get a listing or two worth $2000 to $4000 but since it was not guaranteed, she did not see the point or value to step out of her comfort zone. But for guaranteed $500 upfront, she had no problem with it.

And you know what is funny about all this? most of you will read it, agree or disagree, and you will still do what you are doing… the successful will be successful… the wannabes will agree and do nothing… which is my point to begin with…

2

FADI - you hit on a basic point. People who are successful are willing to reach outside their comfort zone - to challenge themselves - are willing to take risks and sometimes to fail. Most people are inherently comfortable and are reluctant to fail.

Many critics of the gurus point out that of the thousands who buy their courses, only a small number - perhaps only 1-2% - actually become successful. But while I am critical of the offerings of a number of gurus - normally on the lines of expousing risky investment strategies without a full education on the dangers - as well as failing to fully ex[plain situations when those tactics should not be used - they all provide some form of proven investment strategy that is applied with energy and intelligence will lead to success.

But inherently we are comfortable. Even if we a disatisfied with our situation it takes intelligence, diligence, energy and activity to succeed. Most people would rather be told what to do, then to do it.

I am often amused by many of the real estate blogs I read. Uniformally all that I browse are filled with “I should have done this today”, “I really should do this but I hate doing it,” “I can’t stand this but I know I should.”---- and these are people actually getting out and doing it.

It is why thousands - millions even of these REI products are sold, and few actually do anything. It is because it takes intelligence, diligence, energy and activity to succeed. The course provide a good part of the intelligence, - the person has to provide the rest.

3

Fadi,

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t96/IrisPen/fisherman_art_watching_bass_jump_lg.gif

There will always be those that watch the fish.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t96/IrisPen/fisherman_art_caught_bass_lg_clr.gif

Then there are those who go out and catch the fish.

I remember years ago when I first started creative investing. The “Magical Make A Million In 5 Minute Seminars” would come to town. After they left, the local newspaper would have 20 or 25 new I Buy Houses ads. After the first week it would be down to 3 ads, after that it would be just me and a few other regulars advertising.

It seems this is about the attention span of a new investor, it just isn’t that easy without knowing what it really takes to be successful in this Great Industry or as a matter of fact how to catch a fish.

John $Cash$ Locke

4

fadi & salverston,
i agree with most of what you both just said. that being said , i also think that once some investors pay 4k for a “mentoring” course
only to find out it is just a bunch of paperwork on how to figure
interest & payments; then learn more on this board for free than they got for their 4k,& are now too broke to buy bait (marketing)!! plus have to pay the 4k plus interest back to the credit card co. i’m betting there are a lot of people who can’t afford bait (marketing) for just that reason. too bad that 20/20 hindsight doesn’t kick in sooner,but then
it wouldn’t be called “hindsight”. :bash hmmmm. we live ,we learn & after we pay our debt , hopefully we can then recover. ask me &
carlton how i know !!
harriet(fl)

5

fadi,

Very good topic. I would like to add a couple of things. First, people want and expect that they can get rich WITHOUT WORK. To go along with that, they are too LAZY to work hard. The gurus know this and almost all their products talk about getting rich while only working a few minutes each week or even without working at all. Of course, this is not limited to real estate investing. All of the get rich quick fads promise instant riches without work, which is just a big joke. MLM, stock trading, selling on e-bay, and many work at home schemes are examples of these fads that so many silly people throw their money at.

Unfortunately, people have gotten so gullible that they can’t tell reality from illusion. Any book, course, bootcamp, or mentoring that promises riches without a bunch of hard work is nothing more than a scam. In addtion, many of the popular gurus don’t really say anything - it’s all just motivational mumbo-jumbo. It has gotten so ridiculous that many of gurus simply tell the wannabe that they need to think about getting rich. Think it and it will happen because some cosmic energy will be propelled to the universe and the universe will respond by dropping piles of money. It’s so ridiculous that it’s laughable, yet millions of people have bought into this crap.

Finally, I love the fact that people will spend thousands of dollars to learn a “SECRET” that doesn’t exist. They get sucked in with a free meeting. At the meeting, they are promised the “SECRET” to getting rich if they will only go to the guru’s $1,500 bootcamp. When the “SECRET” is not revealed at the bootcamp, the guru will promise that the “SECRET” will certainly be revealed at the $5,000 Guru University level. When the wannabe gets to Guru U, they are told that their education is nearly complete and that the “SECRET” will finally be revealed when they join the guru’s “Inner Circle” for $9,995. GULLIBLE!

Mike

6

Harriet,

You either have what it takes to be successful or you don’t. Thats the bottom line, at least for me. You can find any excuse you like to fail. Many $4k seminars offer something of value and/or someone made it big following it while others failed and complained.

One big measurement for success is your family and friends. When you tell them you are going to do something risky (real estate investing, or anything else), do they try to talk you out of it, think it is bad idea, or doubt you? To me that means you have not succeeded, or succeeded enough, before and they doubt your ability to do it. And if you have no money or credit to invest, then you are not successful to begin with and you have ways to go to make it big, if you have what it takes.

Anyone can cook a burger, and anyone can show you how McDonalds cooks theirs… but very few will build a business as successful as McDonalds unless someone came to them and did the work for them.

7

Mike,

“Secrets” in headlines are top sellers… “10 secrets to…” “XYZ exposes the secrets of…” etc. are common practices by marketers because people think there actually is a secret and not hard work.

This is not just in real estate. According to E-Myth author, 95% of businesses go out of business within the first 5 years.

8

(grin) I am going to disagree with you slightly.

People want you to give them fish, but they won’t accept the free fish unless it has been cleaned and filleted, and you cook it up and serve it with rice pilauf on the side, and then do the dishes for them afterwards.

Most real estate investing methods don’t work nearly as well if tons of people are all doing it. It’s one thing to do “we buy houses” when there are 2 dozen other investors in the area doing it. It is something else to try to do it if there are 10,000 other investors all working that same fishing hole.

There is absolutely nothing to prevent those 10,000 people from starting their own business except for their inability to understand the concept that there is no magic secret of making money without putting some work in.

9

geesh, talk about a doubting thomas or two or more! sometimes lazy deosn’t cover all situations. i am not here :deal , but i am also not here :flush . as long as you are alive & making a concerted effort there is hope. i thought the point of this board was to encourage NOT discourage ; as well as to share information. i thank you kind people for your information on this subject of laziness. i do not qualify for this category of lazy for reasons best left unsaid. i hope you all weren’t referred to as lazy, unsuccessful & gullible until you started getting deals. i try to learn something new every day. today i have learned NOT to believe every put down i read . for some it it easy to be negative. for others it is difficult , but beneficial to be positive.
enough said?
harriet(fl)

10

If they don’t want to do the work that’s more fish (money) for us.

11

So why did you take the thread as a negative thing vs taking it as a challenge to work harder? It is easy to be mentally positive, it is the actions that count. Believe me, I know some of the guys posting here and they know what it takes to be successful.

Let me ask you this (anyone can feel free to chime in), if you had to attend a free 2 or 3 days training/bootcamp… what would you want to learn and be EXACT/DETAILED please? that would make you successful and launch your career to the same level as others have? can you make a list for me?

12

Fadi,

You have posed a very good question, what would a person want to learn.? I too would like to hear some responses.

Marketing is an area I feel very strongly should be taught in workshops or boot camps.

"Branding is more than just a business buzzword. It has become the cornerstone of selling in the new economy.

If the old marketing mantra was, “Nothing happens until somebody sells something,” then the new philosophy is "Nothing happens until somebody brands something.“

A new person should pay critical attention to how they look in the marketplace when they first start out…

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t96/IrisPen/Image2.jpg

John $Cash$ Locke

13

Harriet,

My post was not directed at you or anyone in particular. It was simply a general statement of what I see every day.

if you had to attend a free 2 or 3 days training/bootcamp... what would you want to learn and be EXACT/DETAILED please? that would make you successful and launch your career to the same level as others have? can you make a list for me?

Fadi,

There is nothing that you could put in a 2 or 3 day training (or a six month training for that matter) that would make people successful. While learning the basics of the business are important, what keeps people from being successful is that they don’t have the inner drive to be successful. While many dream of being rich, very few have the drive to do whatever it takes to make it. Being successful requires hard work and sacrifice. Those are things that simply can’t be taught in a training.

Mike

14

Mike? Sacrifice? But you only work 3-4 hours a day 3-4 days a week!!! Where’s the hard work???

I’m joking of course - it is the same with me here in Ecuador taking my “lengthy sabbitical.”

But when you start you have to work hard, be willing to make mistakes, and learn to do the things you need in order to become successful. This can be taught, but only in a finite way. Most of it must be self learned by getting out there and doing, and perservering.

When I spent my 3 years as a licensed agent, I also knew when the gurus came through. People came through with pictures of fancy cars and exotic locations attached to their keys as motivators. They’d awash the RE offices for a few weeks then drift away when they saw no immediate results.

It takes effort to do the first one. Even more sometimes, to do the 2d and 3rd. But by the time you do the 7th or 8th, it becomes comfortable and not so hard. Suddenly, you see deals on every street corner and you are amazed by people who say they can’t find any motivated sellers.

There are lots of people in this business, but the only thing competing against you is you. That is what people don’t understand.

15

My favorite is the red light/green light stock trading software…Does anybody really think that a computer software program is going to accurately predict when to buy/sell/hold when even though the big name mutual fund managers have a tough time predicting it?..I’d love to hear from somebody who was stupid enough to sign up for one of these deals and let us know what happened…

16

I wanted to chime in an answer fadi’s question. If I could attend a free RE bootcamp, I would want to learn things such as:

-Sale Agreement making (clauses, must haves, etc)

-Other form making (lease agreements, etc)

-How to spot potential wholesale properties, rentals, etc.

-The most important dos and donts of REI

-RE specific formula (how to determine max purchase price, etc)

-Describing and teaching, in depth, the different ways to purchase properties (subject to, shortsale, etc.)

-HOW TO DECIDE how a specific property/situation should purchased (subject to, leased, etc)

If these would be covered in a free 2-3day bootcamp, I would be there, no matter what. I would take off work, I would basically do anything to learn this stuff.

Also,

There are lots of people in this business, but the only thing competing against you is you. That is what people don’t understand

I dont understand that comment? How are you only competing against yourself?

17

“While many dream of being rich…”

Actually most do not dream of being rich. What they dream of is spending lots of money on self-indulgence.

Spending money and being rich are not the same thing at all. In fact, they are opposites.

This is America. Anyone who wants to be rich can be rich.

If you want it, you will work for it. If you work for it, you can have it.

Those whose dream is to spend lots of money on luxuries often don’t want it enough to actually work for it. Also, their life goal sets them up for perpetual debt, not for success. You know what grandma always said: You can’t spend all your money and have it too.

18
Mike? Sacrifice? But you only work 3-4 hours a day 3-4 days a week!!! Where's the hard work???? I'm joking of course - it is the same with me here in Ecuador taking my "lengthy sabbitical."

Just to be clear for anyone new, starting a successful business requires a LOT of work. When I started my business, I worked six, 10-12 hour days for more than 2 years. There were almost no days off and no vacations. Just a lot of work and sacrifice. Because of that work and sacrifice, I can now work 12-16 hours per week.

It takes effort to do the first one. Even more sometimes, to do the 2d and 3rd. But by the time you do the 7th or 8th, it becomes comfortable and not so hard. [b]Suddenly, you see deals on every street corner and you are amazed by people who say they can't find any motivated sellers.[/b]

That’s the best post of the day! So true!

I wanted to chime in an answer fadi's question. If I could attend a free RE bootcamp, I would want to learn things such as:

-Sale Agreement making (clauses, must haves, etc)
-Other form making (lease agreements, etc)
-How to spot potential wholesale properties, rentals, etc.
-The most important dos and donts of REI
-RE specific formula (how to determine max purchase price, etc)
-Describing and teaching, in depth, the different ways to purchase properties (subject to, shortsale, etc.)
-HOW TO DECIDE how a specific property/situation should purchased (subject to, leased, etc)

If these would be covered in a free 2-3day bootcamp, I would be there, no matter what. I would take off work, I would basically do anything to learn this stuff.

If you would do ANYTHING to learn this stuff, then why haven’t you? You say that you would do ANYTHING to learn, but what have you actually done? All of the things you mentioned are easily learned for the price of a few books. You could learn everything you described by the end of this week IF YOU WERE WILLING TO PUT FORTH THE EFFORT!!!

Mike

19

Hey buddy…I have been reading my eyes out, everyday for a while, and these answers still evade me. I am trying to put out as much effort as I can, but when you begin to read the same things you have read a month ago, you start to get agitated lol. I have learned so much because of you good folks, and from other investors who have written free articles about investing.

I WOULD go out and buy a book, but I dont want to buy 12 books out of the 100 that are at the bookstore about Real Estate, but that would be a waste of time. I have looked at countless reviews on Real Estate books, and most of the books out there are 98% story (how they were poor, became rich, how they want to help you) and 2% advice/knowledge/tips. If I knew a source that had the answer to my questions all at once, you bet I would buy it, but there are sooooo many books/articles/ebooks/seminars/programs that no one could ever know. Also, Im not going to buy a friggen $5000 system to learn off of. I am trying to learn as much as possible, and all my knowledge gained so far has cost me $25 a month, for my internet access.

Does putting forth the effort mean reading every RE book that I can get my hands on? I dont believe so, that is why I am still looking for centralized information.

20
Does putting forth the effort mean reading every RE book that I can get my hands on? I dont believe so, that is why I am still looking for centralized information.

That is my point. You want the information, but only if getting it is easy. That was also Fadi’s point.

Like you, I have read just about everything in print and I can tell you for a fact that most of it is motivational mumbo-jumbo with little in the way of useful information. However, the material is out there, you may just have to look for it. You will NOT find a single book, course, or bootcamp that covers everything. It’s like the old question: “how do you eat an elephant?” The answer is: “one bite at a time.” If you sit on the sidelines hoping that you’ll find a way to eat it in one big bite, you’ll be sitting there forever. Only, when you start taking bites will the elephant begin to be consumed.

You mentioned short sales. When I was first starting, I also wanted to know about short sales. After a lot of searching on the internet, I found a complete course from a guy named Jarad Severe who had a short sale course (along with a lot of other stuff), all for about $50. It is excellent and has everything you need to know about short sales without any motivational BS. You can find it at foreclosuresandflippers.com. Now, you have no excuse for not knowing about short sales. It even contains all the forms. Please note that I have absolutely no connection with this course or Mr. Severe (other than buying and liking his course).

So, start with that bite and then move on to the next.

I would also suggest that you pick a strategy and learn that, as opposed to trying to do everything. For example, if you’re going to start with wholesaling, do that first and then learn about rentals. If you’re going to do rentals, learn that first and then try wholesaling later. One step at a time.

Good Luck,

Mike