Investors don't want to learn how to fish...

tatertot,

Majority of people do not know what wealth is, or what it takes to be wealthy. Due to our education and employment systems, people expect to be promoted and make more money by sticking around for certain period of time. They get so upset, quit, cause so much pain for themselves and to others when they do not get more money.

I stuggled with this when I was just an employee… It always drove me nutts to see an idiot working as my manager. why did they hire an idiot who does not know half what I know to be a manager. He is at that position because he knows something I don’t and/or he took a step I am so afraid of taking, which is applying for such position over and over till I get it (once you get it once, you have job experience and second and third becomes easier which is another point you made). But I was holding myself back because of my comfort zone and not believing I can do a job an “idiot” can do.

Today I am not a full time investor, I am still part time investor by choice. It is difficult to quit an easy job where I work from home, set my own work hours, leave and come back whenever I like, making 5 sigures a month.

My goals are long term not short term… Like you said, 6th and 7th becomes easier… I decided I will not buy anymore houses till January just to tighen some loose ends… I end up buying two houses this month that I was not even looking for. Sellers contacted me, and I figured what the hell… I’ll buy them.

missjen,

When I started, I read no less than 35 to 40 books and purchased so many courses off of ebay. Till now I buy courses off of ebay and buy books on regular basis for the knowledge. Yes, majority of it has same information but I look for that one sentense or 15 minutes of a course that may make me more money. Currently I am reading a book by Tony Robins which has nothing to do with Real Estate, but everything to do with business/self.

The way I see it, I am in a high return industry so there is no price tag I can put on education. The only thing I want to make sure of is I need to learn something new, and I myself need to make it work.

Your questions are very good questions, and that is an excellent starting point… you know what you don’t know and it is time to find answers for them whatever it costs. Afterall, your business success and failure depends on it right?

Fadi, I definitely agree with you about the price on education. I just want to purchase something that I can use, not just motivational speech, or a bunch of stuff I already know. I do plan on purchasing something soon, when I find something for wholesaling that has good reviews. I just want to say that your OP is right on, and I agree with you completely. Thank you for taking the time and posting your motivational speech!

propertymanager, thank you for that source. The price is right, so I definitely will be purchasing it. I understand that it might seem like I want everything on a silver platter, but that is not the case. I want everything on a platinum platter, with encrusted diamonds around the edge! Jk…I do understand though. I would much rather sit on the internet and search things for specific questions, than buy books and books trying to find the answers, and I have been doing a good job at that I believe. Anyways, thanks again for your input!

HERE’S WHAT I’VE LEARNED IN A 20 YEAR CAREER INVESTING IN STOCKS AND REAL ESTATE…

Stocks…I will tell everyone on this forum what I am buying RIGHT NOW. Few, if any of you, will follow me into ANY of these investments for the reasons already explained.

I am currently buying…FORD…Alan Mulally is building a NEW FORD MOTOR CO. as we sit here. It will be better than ANY previous version. Ford stock…$7.50/ share. In 5 years any investment in this company will have increased by 500%. How’s your 401K doing these days?

I am also buying American HOME BUILDERS stock. Yep you read that right. HOME BUILDERS…Toll Bros. Centex, they’ve been destoyed in the last year. When Saudi Princes start talking about how undervalued American home builders are right now you had all better pay attention. (Saudi’s have consistantly been some of the shrewdest investors in the world, and these guy’s are buying with THEIR money, not someone else’s)
As real estate investors we should all be able to see this panic for the INCREDIBLE buying opportunity it is. Load up boy’s, these deals come along a few times in your life.

I learned a while back that I hate residential rentals. The tenants have all the rights and the landlord all the BS. I’ll pass, thank you.
What I am buying is FLORIDA LAND!!! No insurance, no maintainance, no tenants, low taxes, and I am currently STEALING land in Florida from people who bought too much, too fast, and JUST WANT OUT…NOW!!! Thank you, I’ll be more than happy to buy your land for what amounts to 20 cents on the dollar. I buy for the LONG HAUL. 10 years from now this bust will be a long lost memory for most dim wits out there. I’ll sell my land back to these people for a 300% to 500% returns. Again, how will your 401K compare?

None of this is bragging. It’s CONTRARIAN INVESTING at it’s heart. Buy what NO ONE else wants, when no one wants it. It is VERY hard NOT to make a lot of money IF your patient. I already have properties that provide excellent cash flow, when a SALE like this occurs I’ve learned to load up on absolute steals. The pay off that comes down the road is incredible. See this for what it is… The greatest buying opportunity we will probably ever see in our lifetimes. Just be careful, buying just to buy isn’t the answer. When I can get a waterfront lot in Florida for $30,000 that some dope paid $185,000 for 2 years ago. I HAVE TO BUY!

THINK LONG TERM. 2008 will see some of the greatest deals in history.
The interesting thing is, they won’t seem like great deals at the time becasue the psychology of the markets will cast doubt into the minds of the masses. You guy’s remember the masses right? The people who literally camped out on lawns in Florida to buy pre-construction condos, the people who thought buying a home at ANY PRICE was a NO LOSE deal, the people who bought 2 or 3 homes with all that equity in their OWN home and now are losing EVERYTHING. The Wall St. pro’s who dumped TRILLIONS into sub-prime loans because “this is EASY MONEY.”

I’ve said this before and it bears repeating…

"When you get to a point where the mere mention of a real estate investment causes people on the streets to run screaming into their rental homes, YOU HAVE HIT THE BOTTOM!!

WE are VERY close folks, VERY CLOSE!

http://chart.bigcharts.com/custom/cnnmoney2/profile-chart.img?pg=qu&symb=CTX&sid=1121&time=5yr&uf=8192&type=256&ClientID=44711&mocktick=1&symbtype=0&country=US&style=2108&size=1&rand=9774

That is a nice 5 year curve for Centex!

Thanks for the post.
-Mike

[quote author=fadi link=topic=32839.msg153218#msg153218 date=1195429085]

Let me ask you this (anyone can feel free to chime in), if you had to attend a free 2 or 3 days training/bootcamp… what would you want to learn and be EXACT/DETAILED please? that would make you successful and launch your career to the same level as others have? can you make a list for me?

FADI let me first say thanks for motivating me to make my first post, just found this site about two weeks ago, and am very new to real estate so…

show me a deal.just one, from start to finish and everything in between in DETAIL without any feel good bs after that let me ask a few questions then send me on my way let me make my own mistakes only way you can learn is by making mistakes so i welcome them and that is my list

p.s which of tony’s book did you get? my guess would be personal powerII

Close enough :slight_smile: I’m reading Ultimate Power, which what pushed me to create this post :slight_smile:

What you guys are asking and wanting to learn are very good questions, and from these questions I can tell your hold ups, at least so far, are not “can’t find deals” excuse I tend to hear. Believe me, I had the same questions and hangups myself, if not more since I am obsessed with details, a fault I have but part of my personality.

Once you find the answers to these questions, your next hangup is how to find the deals consistently :slight_smile: but thats a nice problem to have, I enjoy figuring ways to market.

My career was launched by two people, Michael Quarles who volanteered his time to guide me over the phone and opened my eyes on marketing, and Cash who showed me the beauty of “subject to” investing and who actually called ME to help me get started :slight_smile:

Let me do this for you and missjen, send me a private message and we will schedule time for me to answer some of your questions over the phone hows that? Maybe I can give your career a jump start and/or at least help answer some of your questions.

Another good one is NVR. 52wk high is 851, peaked out in 2005 at 938. Currently sitting at 451 a share. Shares still dropping recently but the chairman is buying in big (119k shares, that’s big cash at that price per share). He knows something that we don’t and there has to be a reason he’s buying in like that. I’m no stock expert but I’ll agree with Pete on this one, these builders are bargains now.

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=AMEX:NVR

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/
80a48a7774d496c230fc1c26f863edbf.htm

As for Ford, it’s still declining…I’d be tempted to wait a little while on picking it up.

Some people don’t know how to start a marketing campaign. Others don’t know where to get investors from. And some just aren’t motivated to take the risk/jump or cast their pole.

I bet the seminars offer some good guidelines or a process to use a basic outline or starting point. Some people may just need the knowledge of the process to get motivated to take the leap.

I don’t think enough people take the risks in their lives to allow themselves an opportunity to make some money or do something they thought they couldn’t. Security is valued tremendously. To step outside and take a risk is huge for some people, and failure may happen, but there are more opportunities out there. And once someone knows they can take the risk, it is easier to do it again, and they are more experienced the next time.

Well, let me chime in here as well. I’ve been on this forum for about 3 months, mostly lurking and reading as many posts that has to do with RE investing as possible. So, 3 months ago I had ZERO rentals, now I have an 8-plex, and 12 SFHs. Successful or not, time will tell. But I will say all my properties cash flow $75-100/unit, AND I use the 50% rule for expenses, and 2% rule for rent (all learned from this site). As for all the financials, I used my CPA. As for the legal forms, I got a RE lawyer. No need to read 10 books on RE law and RE financials, I read a couple of each and knew enough to follow along as the CPA and Lawyer explained things to me. After the first few deals, I didn’t need them anymore…

It may of been easier for me because I started IT Security consultancy at age 25, so now adding something else is that much easier at 30. My personality is that I’m not afraid to succeed. I take risks, but they are calculated. My plan A, has a Plan B, and Plan C attached to it. I created a business plan to do RE Investment, and I followed it. I treated this as business entity and acted accordingly.

As for efforts, I made calls to banks, fsbo, bandit signs during lunch hours. I have a blackberry I wear out b/c I have emails for personal, IT security job, and RE investing. I did a closing via FedEx b/c I didn’t have time to drive 45 minutes to Title Co. Then the next day, I wired the $$ at the bank during lunch. Why? Because it was my son’s first Halloween. I’m just pointing out MikeOH’s point of… What have YOU done to try and succeed at RE Investing. IF I fail, it will never be from a lack of effort…

EXO

Do you manage them yourself or use a company? And what is your exit strategy? I am still learning and sponging up info myself.

What a great topic. I thought I would throw a little different perspective out there. I worked for a guy we’ll call Bob that owned apartment complexes and I was his right hand man you might say. I learned a lot about maintenance and fixing things while working with him. After a few years he saw some huge potential in me and HE decided that I was going to become a real estate investor. He talked to me about it and all I heard was, “Jared, your going to be rich soon”. I read 1 book and then started my career. 1 BOOK!!! Ron Legrand told me that the less I do the more I make and I believed him! So I was ready!!!

Bob had an IRA that he made available for me to buy houses. $100,000 at my expense That may not sound like much to most of you but here in Fort Wayne that can fund two decent projects start to finish. Any guesses to what happened next? Anybody…

I f’ed it all up! I bought two pieces of crap in crappy areas with a crappy realtor with crappy comps and remodeled both homes with crappy colors crappy contractors and both houses LOOKED LIKE CRAP!!! They both sat for a year before they sold. Once they sold Bob and I parted ways as business partners.

The cool thing about this experience is that I learned a lot about this business by screwing it all up. It made me want to learn more and more and more so I started reading other books and especially this site and a few others. I decided that I was going to make it in this business and since then I have, I’ve been full time since the begining of this year, and it has been a lot of hard work.

My point is that Bob wasn’t trying to teach me how to fish but instead he gave me a great pole, some cool spinner bait and a nice boat ($100,000), but with no knowledge of how to fish I couldn’t. Or maybe my point is that he gave me fish and I screwed it all up. Ya get me? You have to know what your doing! You have to have an education before you start! Learn, read, ask questions, go to your REIA meetings, talk to investors that know what they’re doing, and most of all LISTEN. Real estate isn’t rocket science, but you do need to have a good idea of what your doing, and it is a LOT OF HARD WORK, especially when you are starting out. My two cents.

Jared,

That may be THE best post I have ever read on this site!!

The fact that you didn’t just throw in the towel speaks volumes about your character and your will. I have no doubt in my mind that you will be a VERY successful real estate investor.

Sometimes…scratch that…MOST of the time, we learn more from failure than we do from success.

Personally, my best motivation has ALWAYS come from people who told me I couldn’t do something. Want to motivate me??? Tell me “There’s no way you can do that.”

I get lot’s of emails from people on this site asking for advice. Most of these guy’s have never even TRIED to buy a house. There are some things you just have to DO.
You could have read 30 books and it would have made NO DIFFERENCE in the out come. THE EXPERIENCE is the key.

I’ve been doing this for 20+ years. I STILL learn something new on every house I sell.
One of the things I found most useful was learning WHERE to spend money on a rehab.
My conclusions???

PAINT & FLOORING

I just finished a rehab that I spent $6000 on. (rehab costs) Years ago I would have ripped out the cracked walls, pulled the popcorn ceilings, replaced all the kitchen and bathroom cabinets. But after 20 years you learn to do things the EASY way.
Patch those cracks in the walls, do a nice neat job, then paint over them, spray those popcorn ceilings with new flat white ceiling paint, Use www.lakesidemoulding.com for new cabinet doors at a cost of $11/door. The kitchen remodel in this home cost me $365.00!!! Paint those new doors a nice gloss white and replace the hardware, same for the bathrooms. Then to tie it all together replace ALL carpeting, and throw some bling at that dirty girl by spending some money on hardwoods where you get initial IMPACT (Kitchens & entry/living rooms) I finished the last one in 35 days. Purchased it for $110,000 put $6000 into it and sold it on day 39 (4 days AFTER the hardwoods were installed) for $184,900.

The difference is experience. Don’t pull it apart unless you’re going to make money on it.
Paint is GOLD. I have a woman who handles ALL my color choices. I pay her $400/ home to pick out carpet, tile, wall colors, and wood floors. This women has sold more houses for me than any 30 realtors put together!! Find these folks, and then LISTEN to them.
This is called FINE TUNING, by doing it you hold your homes for a lot less time and they sell for asking price. They sell because 5 people want the home. People know what looks good WHEN THEY SEE IT. They DO NOT, however, know how to PICK those things out of a color sample book.

Great job Jared, as usual.

Jared and Fdjake,

I’m sorry to say that you guys blew it big time. Everyone that REALLY knows this business knows that experience is not needed. Learning to fish is a waste of time! Carpet and paint are irrelevant. Education is a waste of time and money. Joining your local REIA - ridiculous.

Jared had the answer to success right there in his hand and chose to ignore it! Let me give you the SECRET once again: THE LESS YOU DO, THE MORE YOU MAKE! My advice: DON’T DO ANYTHING AND WAIT FOR THOSE MILLIONS TO ROLL IN!

C’mon guys! Get with the program!

Mike

:banghead Dammit

AMEN!

Dont waste your money buying bootcamps from gurus. I’ve been there, done that. There’s no real value and all they do is try to upsell you some coaching program because that’s the only way for them to keep bilking you for money. By the end of reading this forum you would have saved thousands! If the gurus are so great at this, why are they not investing? Well let’s do the math. One guru camp I know of charges $10,000 for 3 days of learning how to be an investor. They hold a class of 20 people. That’s $200,000 in 3 days for some blowhard to sit and tell you what you can read here without leaving your house…for FREE!!! So they aren’t making a dime being an investor, they’re spending their time BS’ing you for more money! :bs

I’ve made money in real estate and lost money, had to write checks to close a bad investment, I’ve been through it all. And no one at a boot camp showed me that crap! They just fluff it all up to get your money. You can make money in this business, I have, I didn’t give up when I made bad moves.

Don’t expect to pay 10G’s and have fish land in your boat. You can work your ass off for FREE and learn HOW to fish!

I am investing… Two ways first I am currently buying a house a week and secondly I am teaching others to do the same…

There is a difference between those that teach becaue they cant invest and those that can also teach

Amen Jason, Amen.

I honestly don’t think the problem is with the bootcamp itself, but with the people who attend them. Why would one student turn around and become very successful within one year while others fail? Because they don’t follow through, scared, or still looking for hand holding. I am a huge courses and bootcamps fan, I always get one idea or another from them and they did get me started.

Now, if the bootcamp totally sucks and does not teach you anything, then thats another story. I know many bad teachers out there…

Here is my take on it, if spending $1000, $5000, or $10,000 would help you kick start a very successful career, then why not? the challenge however is having the money, and finding a good teacher.

That’s great if you get something out of it that makes the investment in the boot camp worth your while. I personally get more movtivated on my own than spending 10k to hear someone full of hot air pump up the crowd. In any case, I agree with what you said about learning to fish. Great forum!