Getting Real on Abortion... Sex Selection...

Random Ramblings
61

Furnished,
If you study the cause of famine in China you’ll find that it was caused by the repressive communist government inflicting its demands on its people. As with any government intervention it caused a gross mis-allocation of resources and thereby outputs.

“The significant problems we face today cannot be solved with the same level of thinking we were at when we created them”.
–Albert Einstein

Unfortunately, the same government that caused this thought that population control through abortion might help. Freeing the creative/intellectual capacity of its people would have prevented the famine in the first place. Unfortunately, that would have ended the communist regime.

62

Bluemoon06,

"“You bait me into this. I tried and I tried to not give my views on abortion because It will probably make everybody mad. But here goes.”

I wasn’t baiting you into anything…

“I always say it is important to understand why people do what they do. Conservatives almost never understand what the abortion issue is. They think it is about the baby. Liberals understand that it is not. It is about the women. I say that because if you want to stop a thing you need to know what causes that thing. It is an issue for poor single women.”

Your lack of acknowledgement of the baby and their rights, DESPITE whether a women is poor, not-ready, etc… makes sense since you seem to believe the above…

“The only people that have abortions are single women. When a married couple have an accidental or unplanned pregnancy, they just have the baby.”

17-18% of US abortions are from women who are married… considering that the US total abortions per year are around 1.2 MILLION, this is no small number… Over 200,000+ per YEAR from married women…

“The woman goes from being a wife to being a wife and mother which are not inconsistent with each other.”

Please explain what you mean by this…

“This is only an issue for single women. A single woman that gets pregnant accidentally and has the baby goes from being a hot girl to being a baby momma. That is way different. And on top of that it is an issue for poor single women. If a rich woman gets pregnant she will more than likely have the baby as well”

51% of women having abortions have incomes of $30K and up… with 13.8% having incomes of $60K and up… clearly this is not just a poor single women’s issue… it goes across income levels…

“A study was done that categorized the reasons women have abortions. http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/psrh/full/3711005.pdf the study found that 75% of women that have abortions have them because they can’t afford the baby or the baby will change my life.”

Of COURSE it will change your life… in addtion, the MAJORITY of people are NEVER financially ready for kids… are you going to assert the opposite? But many people who have had HUGE impacts on the world PRIMARILY came from POOR FAMILIES… BTW, you understand that Guttmacher is Planned Parenthood, right?

“The only way to fix the abortion problem is for us to raise our daughters to understand that their vjayjay has value. It is too valuable to pass out willy nilly. The guy must earn the right to be able to get on you.”

Crudeness aside, what is MORE important is teaching PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY… Wants versus Needs… Unintended CONSRQUENCES… Realizing that sexual activity comes with RESPONSIBILITY… Don’t engage in the activity if you cannot handle the potential challenges that arrive from it… Or if you do, LEARN to DEAL with the consequences of your actions, not AVOID it… Life does not always give us what we want…

“If conservatives would understand that the issue is the poor single girls and not the baby and put forth programs to curb that behavior then abortion would soon be a thing of the past.”

Bluemoon06, name a program that would suddenly make a “poor single girls” reality any different.(i.e. - poor and changing their life) that would lead to “curbing” abortions…

“By the way that was a rant.”

Yes, it was… :beer

63

Bluemoon06,

You got it right. Abortion is ALWAYS about the woman. Abortion is the choice when there appears to be no other option. If there is not a legal option of abortion, then there will be deaths, infection, and sterility from back-street abortions. We have been down that path before.

Adoption is not an option instead of abortion. It is not even on the same page.

PosOutlook,
It is not that women LIKE abortion. Women HATE abortion. No one likes abortion. It’s just that one pregnancy can end life as you know it; can end an entire future for the woman. Suicides happen because there is no option to end a pregnancy.

If women don’t get around to having an abortion in the first trimester, my feeling is that they then need to carry through with the pregnancy. They can’t dither around, or fail to acknowledge their condition. Ignorance is not bliss.

Life is messy, not black and white. I used to be vehemently anti-abortion, as a high school student. Then I saw the toll, the ruined lives of the young women who didn’t have that choice. I saw the life-long despair and depression of the women who gave up babies to adoption. Abortion is much kinder to the woman than either adoption or the messed-up life of the unwanted child.

I don’t support late term or mid-term abortions. Only the most extreme medical emergencies, decided by an entire panel of doctors would justify that, in my opinion.

I believe the Supreme Court has done its job correctly by weighing in on this incredibly difficult decision.

Furnishedowner

64

Furnishedowner,

Sorry in advance for the length, but you had alot of points to discuss…

“You got it right. Abortion is ALWAYS about the woman. Abortion is the choice when there appears to be no other option. If there is not a legal option of abortion, then there will be deaths, infection, and sterility from back-street abortions. We have been down that path before.”

Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood said herself pre Roe v. Wade that “back-alley” abortions were a very small percentage of deaths (in the hundreds)… What is interesting is in what you said above, you have place SUPERIOR value on the life of the mother than the baby…

“Abortion is much kinder to the woman than either adoption or the messed-up life of the unwanted child.”

That’s very black and white of you, but those are NOT the only choices… adoption or havng the FATHER of the child raise the baby if she does not want to are ALSO options… There are MILLIONS of women who have babies each year, and I can GUARANTEE you… 1) The majority did not PLAN on a pregnancy… 2) the MAJORITY could not afford in advance… 3) a percentage chose NOT to have an abortion but still had anxieties about it…

“Adoption is not an option instead of abortion. It is not even on the same page”

Why? Instead of people going to China, or other countries, they could adopt here… Who knows how many Mozarts, Einsteins, Ghandi’s, Washingtons, etc. have been withheld from the world with abortion… or better yet, give the MAN the OPTION of taking FULL responsibility if the women chooses not to…

“It is not that women LIKE abortion. Women HATE abortion. No one likes abortion.”

How many women would hate it enough to NOT choose it, IF they were given ALL the information? How can it be “choice” if they are not given ALL the information? How can you support a system that does NOT give these women all the facts?

“It’s just that one pregnancy can end life as you know it; can end an entire future for the woman.”

I reject this at it’s core… If that’s your view, then you should RELEASE ALL MEN from ALL OBLIGATIONS if the women wants to have an abortion and he doesn’t, otherwise the MAN is enslaved to someone elses decision… Since you seem to think that all men are are sperm donors or banks, and have no feelings that should be considered and are not imapcted, from a clinical POV, you should be ADVOCATING this…

“Then I saw the toll, the ruined lives of the young women who didn’t have that choice. I saw the life-long despair and depression of the women who gave up babies to adoption. Abortion is much kinder to the woman than either adoption or the messed-up life of the unwanted child.”

So, it’s your position that a women has more guilt by bringing her baby to term, and letting it live, than by killing it in her own womb?? This runs opposite of logic and innate human leanings for a desire for life…

“Suicides happen because there is no option to end a pregnancy.”

The evidence of studies over the years, and latest from just a week ago, is stacked up in opposition to what you are saying…

New Zealand Study, published in the British Journal of Psychiatry, Shows 85 Percent of Women Say Abortions Cause Mental Health Issues, November 3, 2009

Study Confirms Higher Substance Use Rates Among Pregnant Women After Abortion

http://www.lifenews.com/int1371.html

http://www.rachelsvineyard.org/PDF/Articles/New%20Study%20Confirms%20-%20Post%20Ab%20Review.pdf

http://www.afterabortion.org/news/depressionbmj.html

http://www.lifenews.com/nat359.html

From the article - [i][b]"A disturbing new report from the National Institute of Health (NIH) finds that not only are girls and young women more likely to think about committing suicide, they’re much more likely to follow through. One reason for the increase appears to be abortion.

The study also found that women who have abortions have a HIGHER suicide rate than women in general. In fact, giving birth reduces women’s suicide risk, the study showed."[/b][/i]

If you think about it, it makes sense… When they have a baby that they keep, it is a constant reminder of what they did, and what makes it all the more worse, is if they were not given ALL the information regarding abortion in the first place… they were misinformed and told it was one thing, only to later find out it was another…

“If women don’t get around to having an abortion in the first trimester, my feeling is that they then need to carry through with the pregnancy.”

And here is where you ALWAYS leave it and never answer it… WHY? If it is a women’s “choice” in the first-semester because the baby is not viable, then does the fetus become a baby worthy of SUPERIOR rights to the women at the second and third, EVEN THOUGH, the baby REMAINS unviable from the second into the third trimester?

I respectfully request that you finally ANSWER THE QUESTION, Furnishedowner…

“Life is messy, not black and white.”

Agreed, but that does not mean that we shouldn’t hold people accoubtable for their decisions… In fact, it could be easily argued that this is WHY dysphunction INCREASES…

“I believe the Supreme Court has done its job correctly by weighing in on this incredibly difficult decision.”

The Supreme Court in 1973 and 1993 did not have available to them the science that is now available…

65

Conservatives almost always take views because of what they were told not because things makes since. Saying that abortion is about babies is like saying speeding is about cars or murder is about guns. They both play their part but until you understand the issues of the woman you will never be able to get a handle on ending or even slowing it down. I am not going to explain any of the issues you ask about. You tell me what I mean by these issues.
You need to understand them. Do your homework if you really want to understand it. Until you do you are just a tinkling bell.

66

Bluemoon06,

“Conservatives almost always take views because of what they were told not because things makes since.”

That is one of the most ludicrous things you’ve written Bluemoon06, and COMPLETELY unsupportable…

“Saying that abortion is about babies is like saying speeding is about cars or murder is about guns.”

Yes, and all those examples the INDIVIDUAL is responsible for the damage done…

“They both play their part but until you understand the issues of the woman you will never be able to get a handle on ending or even slowing it down.”

I understand the issues of the woman… I DISAGREE with you on her responsibility in it, and the damage caused from it…

“I am not going to explain any of the issues you ask about.”

Of course not… then you would have to commit to writing… without it, kinda’ like nailing jello on a wall… :rolleyes

“You tell me what I mean by these issues.”

I don’t read minds and don’t misrepresent what people say based on my perceptions, which is WHY I quote people and address their words… and most likely the reason you don’t want to commit your position to writing…

“You need to understand them. Do your homework if you really want to understand it. Until you do you are just a tinkling bell”

The tinkling bell is the one dodging the questions… I can tell you I’ve looked at this issue from so many angles, that very little surprises me, and I can also tell you that you are on Stage 3 of the liberal dodge…

So, surprise me, Bluemoon06… oh, and BTW, I’ve always been a conservative, but there was a time when I was pro-choice… so if we follow your inital unsupportable position of “believing what we are told”… make sense yet?..

When you are ready to REALLY discuss it… let us know…

67

PosOutlook,
Here goes, once again…

Yes, I place a superior value on the life of the woman, not the fetus, in the first trimester.

Women have always traveled, to countries that permit first trimester abortions, in order to not have to resort to a back-alley abortion. The back alley deaths were those who couldn’t afford to travel. The infections and ensuing sterility, uncounted, and totally tragic.

For the women who choose first trimester abortions, it is a CHOICE. It is much easier not to choose. To go into denial and do absolutely nothing. Like a lot of teenage girls. To sit home and watch the belly expand. To do nothing. Of course it is a choice, a hard-thought-out choice. An unhappy but inevitable choice. A choice made finally after medical consultation.

For women who choose abortion, there is not an adequate man in the picture. There is the nameless Friday-night date, the alcoholic ex-husband, the so-wrong mistake. If there is a loving, financially sound, sane partner, is there abortion? Heck, no. Who would do that?

Biological fathers (see above) are not a usual option to abortion. Do you know anyone who has given their baby to a biological father, “Here you go. See ya’”? And then carried on as if nothing happened? The only biological fathers raising children that I know do it because of death, drugs, divorce, instability.

Yes, it is my opinion that adoption is a worse option than abortion to most women. Caring a pregnancy to term is an enormous life-altering event. An event only to be managed if there is physical, mental, financial support during the pregnancy. Giving away an infant afterwards has life-long mental loss and depression after effects.

Yes, having an abortion can create a higher risk of suicide. It is not a happy mindless event, either. There is always loss and a feeling of “what if”, but less than if there were a live birth. Haven’t you seen those crying mother-child reunion TV shows? That mother remembers the exact minute, date and year of her child’s birth. Does she remember the same details of a first trimester medical procedure? No.

Abortion is superior, in my opinion, to having yet another unwanted, soon-to-be-abused and neglected child. Forget the idea of “what if it’s another Einstein or Mozart”? That unwanted child is more likely to be psychologically damaged foster-care material or worse. Don’t you hear those unsuitable Moms, through gritted teeth, in Wal-Mart: “Sit down, you brat, or I’m gonna…”.

This state alone has about 400 children up for adoption. Many of whom, sadly, will age out of the system never having had a loving parent or step-parent. THAT’S WHERE THE ANTI-ABORTION FOLKS SHOULD STEP IN. ADOPT THOSE KIDS. Those children are here, and needy. Take care of the ones we’ve got. Who need you now. Quit worrying about fetuses who aren’t here.

First trimester abortions are a relatively simple medical procedure (D & C) which is routinely done for many other medical conditions as well. A second or later trimester abortion is technically more difficult. I have only seen one of those, and it was accomplished by inserting a needle, and saline solution, into a still tiny uterus, with much higher attendant risk for the woman. The one I assisted with, in my medical days, was on a 14-year-old who didn’t even look pregnant. That, and the increasing fetal viability, out of the uterus, is my reason for only backing first trimester abortions. A pregnant woman, first trimester, may not even look pregnant. It is a much less difficult decision in the first trimester. It is a medical decision between the woman and her doctor.

I have read that women are way more pro-choice than men. This really is a woman’s issue.

Imagine women picketing, “NO MORE VASECTOMIES”! Imagine that medical issue going to the Supreme Court. Imagine debates over the proper age for a vasectomy, whether you should have 2 or 4 children first, whether it is ethical to MESS WITH POTENTIAL LIFE, etc. Wouldn’t men just say, “Butt Out! That is a man’s issue, decided by me and my partner and my doctor only. Keep out of my personal business, it’s MY body.”

Pos, it’s been fun, but this has been a big time-suck as well. Time to get back to renovating and renting. The rest of you enjoy the debate.

Furnishedowner

68

To my knowledge, Dr’s don’t like to do vasectomies unless the man is either 25 yrs old or has 3 kids…at least that’s what was told to me several years ago.

69

PositiveOutlook

Conservatives almost always take views because of what they were told not because things makes since."

That is one of the most ludicrous things you’ve written Bluemoon06, and COMPLETELY unsupportable…

06 The kind of thing that conservatives are told is that gay marriage hurts the family. Bobby has 2 dads etc. This is told to them not thought through. If they did think about what they are saying they would know that homosexuals by the virtue of their relationships don’t breed (For those of you that were homeschooled men don’t make babies with men and women don’t make babies with women). Then they say that if they get married they could adopt…they can adopt now!! It has nothing to do with the family. They were just told that and they spit it back out.

“They both play their part but until you understand the issues of the woman you will never be able to get a handle on ending or even slowing it down.”

I understand the issues of the woman… I DISAGREE with you on her responsibility in it, and the damage caused from it…

06 since we both agree on the responsibility then why are all the solutions not about solving the problems that cause the woman to have an abortion instead of making all that heat about making it illegal?
“I am not going to explain any of the issues you ask about.”

Of course not… then you would have to commit to writing… without it, kinda’ like nailing jello on a wall…

06 I want to train you to do your own thinking. Ask yourself what does he mean and you will eventually get better and better at thinking.

“You tell me what I mean by these issues.”

I don’t read minds and don’t misrepresent what people say based on my perceptions, which is WHY I quote people and address their words… and most likely the reason you don’t want to commit your position to writing…

06 You don’t have to read minds just think. It is like potty training a kid. If you keep changing his diapers he will never learn to use the potty. I am trying to teach you to use your brain.

“You need to understand them. Do your homework if you really want to understand it. Until you do you are just a tinkling bell”

The tinkling bell is the one dodging the questions… I can tell you I’ve looked at this issue from so many angles, that very little surprises me, and I can also tell you that you are on Stage 3 of the liberal dodge…

06 If you have looked at the issues from the other sides then why do you have a question about the sides? I mean by the tinkling bell is that you ask a question that makes it seem that you have no idea where all these views come from.

So, surprise me, Bluemoon06… oh, and BTW, I’ve always been a conservative, but there was a time when I was pro-choice… so if we follow your inital unsupportable position of “believing what we are told”… make sense yet?..

06 I have never been pro-choice. I know that people have always had and always will have the choice I have been a solve the problem that women have that causes abortion and I have not changed. I am not going into either of those pro-choice pro-life traps.

70

Bluemoon06,

Being that your post was basically saying the same thing over and over again, I will address the main point…

“06 You don’t have to read minds just think. It is like potty training a kid. If you keep changing his diapers he will never learn to use the potty. I am trying to teach you to use your brain.”

Individual thought and congruity of position are not mutually exclusive… you’ve come to your contrarian thought of pro-choice and pro-lfie being a “trap” through doing

“06 If you have looked at the issues from the other sides then why do you have a question about the sides? I mean by the tinkling bell is that you ask a question that makes it seem that you have no idea where all these views come from.”

Very simple, when you ask questions, thought is provoked, when positions are challenged, it forces you to really think it through… When you think it through, the absudity, barbarity and incivility of “choice” becomes clear…

If you can devalue another’s life at any stage of the game, how can you not do it at every stage of the game?.. The innocent and least able to defend themselves deserve to be protected, or how can you argue against terminating the old, infirm or mentally ill?.. As we can see with the Chinese, because of a government policy regarding the number of births, they have moved from aborting while inside the womb, to killing their BORN babies outside the womb… how is the value a life inside the womb any different that one outside the womb?..

Furnishedowner deems it appropriate to kill a baby in the first trimester, when all the things that MAKE the baby a seperate human being HAPPEN in the FIRST trimester - Separate DNA, heart, brains, fingerprints, eye, genitalia, etc… and physically, all the mother is at this at this point is a feeding.and nourishment carrier… this does NOT change throughout the pregnancy… so it begs the question, WHY is it OK to NOT to allow the mother to kill the baby during the second and third trimester if it is OK in the first?.. Her latest take on this is that a women should know in the first tri-mester… My wife works in Maternity admissions, and ALOT of women don’t realize that they are pregnancy during the first trimester…

“06 I have never been pro-choice.”

Of COURSE you are… just because you don’t take the label does not mean that you are not in effect practicing it… as long as you take the position of a supposed non-position, and take no position on negating abortions, you by default leave it up to a choice… your inaction IS a choice… THINK about it…


“I know that people have always had and always will have the choice I have been a solve the problem that women have that causes abortion and I have not changed. I am not going into either of those pro-choice pro-life traps.”

Having sex is not a problem, but a choice… even those who have sex with protection, and get pregnant, there would have been nothing you could have done to alleviate this “problem”… except you leave it up to the women to make a “choice”, as you put it…


“06 The kind of thing that conservatives are told is that gay marriage hurts the family. Bobby has 2 dads etc. This is told to them not thought through. If they did think about what they are saying they would know that homosexuals by the virtue of their relationships don’t breed (For those of you that were homeschooled men don’t make babies with men and women don’t make babies with women). Then they say that if they get married they could adopt…they can adopt now!! It has nothing to do with the family. They were just told that and they spit it back out.”

That is a very simplisitic view of it… that is parroting the liberal line on this issue, what you are accusing conservatives of… what you just said ignores all the social and religous implications which are at the base of the issue… Take “gay marriage” for example… Marriage is between a man and a women… Although there can be the masculine and feminine realtionship within a gay relationship, that distinction does not make it the same, as there are physical characteristics also… Unless you are willing to also recognize all other forms of relationships as marriage’s, all the concept of “gay marriage” does is water down the concept of marriage and antagonize people’s social and relgious belief’s… I thought the gay populace made a mistake by not embracing the civil unions brand… in trying to MAKE their relationship the same as a married couple, they highlight that the relationship is not… with the religous angle - what the gay community is asking those with religious belief’s to do is to IGNORE God and His ordination of marriage in favor of man’s…

BTW, although my kids are not homeschooled, your degradation of them is ludicrous… a lttile reading on the subject should change your willingness to use them as a tool of degredation… maybe some more “thinking” is in order, eh?..

71

PositiveOutlook

Individual thought and congruity of position are not mutually exclusive… you’ve come to your contrarian thought of pro-choice and pro-lfie being a “trap” through doing

06 I agree

Very simple, when you ask questions, thought is provoked, when positions are challenged, it forces you to really think it through… When you think it through, the absudity, barbarity and incivility of “choice” becomes clear…

06 I agree

If you can devalue another’s life at any stage of the game, how can you not do it at every stage of the game?.. The innocent and least able to defend themselves deserve to be protected, or how can you argue against terminating the old, infirm or mentally ill?.. As we can see with the Chinese, because of a government policy regarding the number of births, they have moved from aborting while inside the womb, to killing their BORN babies outside the womb… how is the value a life inside the womb any different that one outside the womb?..

06 I agree. I really don’t devalue life after different stages. You do though. After that human life becomes a murderer you devalue that life. That is what I mean by use your brain. But as you said better congruity of position is not seen there.

Of COURSE you are… just because you don’t take the label does not mean that you are not in effect practicing it… as long as you take the position of a supposed non-position, and take no position on negating abortions, you by default leave it up to a choice… your inaction IS a choice… THINK about it…

06 No I am not pro-choice. In my house, where I have control, if we get pregnant we have the baby. As I said earlier the issue is a single woman’s issue. I am not a single woman. Making abortion illegal is deciding that a woman’s problem that causes her to seriously consider abortion is not important enough for her to make that decision. It is like saying because she doesn’t have enough sense to make that decision she should be required by law to eat her vegetables, or exercise, send her kid to college, wear a burqa or have a kid.

Having sex is not a problem, but a choice… even those who have sex with protection, and get pregnant, there would have been nothing you could have done to alleviate this “problem”… except you leave it up to the women to make a “choice”, as you put it…

06 A news flash for everybody born after world war II…having babies has nothing to do with getting pregnant. That is like saying if you drive a car you will run out of gas. Let’s get our minds out of the bedroom and put it on a woman’s shoulders. Think about her issues and not her haunches.

That is a very simplisitic view of it… that is parroting the liberal line on this issue, what you are accusing conservatives of… what you just said ignores all the social and religous implications which are at the base of the issue… Take “gay marriage” for example… Marriage is between a man and a women… Although there can be the masculine and feminine realtionship within a gay relationship, that distinction does not make it the same, as there are physical characteristics also… Unless you are willing to also recognize all other forms of relationships as marriage’s, all the concept of “gay marriage” does is water down the concept of marriage and antagonize people’s social and relgious belief’s… I thought the gay populace made a mistake by not embracing the civil unions brand… in trying to MAKE their relationship the same as a married couple, they highlight that the relationship is not… with the religous angle - what the gay community is asking those with religious belief’s to do is to IGNORE God and His ordination of marriage in favor of man’s…

06 I have no idea what this means. Are you saying that gay marriage is not done by a clergyman? A lot of people get married at the courthouse. Or am I missing the point?

BTW, although my kids are not homeschooled, your degradation of them is ludicrous… a lttile reading on the subject should change your willingness to use them as a tool of degredation… maybe some more “thinking” is in order, eh?..

06 No I hire people and from time to time I get people that have been homeschooled apply. You can tell. That is why I help them out a bit when I can.

72

Bluemoon06,


“06 I agree. I really don’t devalue life after different stages. You do though. After that human life becomes a murderer you devalue that life. That is what I mean by use your brain. But as you said better congruity of position is not seen there.”

Nice try… it is actually the opposite… you devalue life to the point that you allow the “choice”, whether it is at one stage or another… In your attempt to equate the death penalty with abortion, the murderers death sentence is a judicial response to the guilty, the baby’s death through abortion is of the innocent… In your reasoninig, you do not support the choice of not ending the life of the guilty who has already ended the life of another and is paying the price for it, but you do support the choice of the single women to end the life of the innocent baby… That is some strange reasoning…

“06 No I am not pro-choice. In my house, where I have control, if we get pregnant we have the baby.”

If you release the single women from the responsibility of ending a babies life under the banner of choice, despite whether or not you practice it, still puts you in support of choice for single women…

"Making abortion illegal is deciding that a woman’s problem that causes her to seriously consider abortion is not important enough for her to make that decision. "

No, it makes her responsible for the decisions that lead up to it in the first place, which will lead to addressing it BEFORE it becomes a “problem”… If the decision did not involve another life, it wouldn’t be an issue… We are endowed by our Creator with the unalienable right to LIFE… it says NOTHING about stages… What bothers me the most, is the fact that these women are mislead and not given all the facts due to PROFIT motive, only to lead to more emotional damage later… then they feel they have to justifty it somehow… The abortion cycle is RIDDLED with nothing but damage and loss…

“06 A news flash for everybody born after world war II…having babies has nothing to do with getting pregnant.”

Yes, getting pregnant has to do with having cars… :rolleyes pregnancy is a requirement for having a baby… unless you are adopting…

“06 I have no idea what this means.”

Then THINK about it… :beer

“Are you saying that gay marriage is not done by a clergyman?”

No, I am saying that from a religious perspective, God ordained marriage… you are asking people to IGNORE what God has ordained in favor or what man WANTS to ordain… just because a clergyman inerrantly performs a service between a gay couple, does not make it a marriage in God’s eyes… It is not recognized by the Church… Just because I perform a service between a gay couple, doesn’t mean it’s recognized in the eyes of the state either… it has no authority… what you fail to recognize is that the states endorsement of a marriage only serves as a legal justification for financial and civil reasons only, not religious… which is why civil unions make sense as a tool for gay couples… that is what they are looking for anyway, primarily financial reasons… they cannot FORCE God to recognize that which He doesn’t by entwining marriage with something else that is the opposite of what He has ordained…

“A lot of people get married at the courthouse. Or am I missing the point?”

Yes, and this was my point regarding civil unions… but instead, they are wasting their efforts on trying to FORCE religions and people to change what God has ordained… That is like an atheist dunking their baby in water an calling it a baptism… just because they do it, doesn’t make it so…

“06 No I hire people and from time to time I get people that have been homeschooled apply. You can tell. That is why I help them out a bit when I can”

That is incredibly ignorant… Homeschoolers outperform their public AND private school counterparts… there are MILLIONS of kids homeschooled, and done by uncredited teachers (their parents), and yet they outperform their credited counterparts… Homeschooling is what was done for CENTURIES before it was put into the classroom (to teach the Bible, BTW)… They consistently achieve higher scores (ACT, SAT, etc.) across the board vs. private AND public schools… in addition, colleges find that homeschoolers enter college more prepared for college (which is why they score better there also), greater maturity, and go on to achieve a better standard of living…

Homeschoolers score higher than 86% of their public school peers, according to a new study called Progress Report 2009: Homeschool Academic Achievement and Demographics, Examiner, September 4, 2009

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-1393-Education-Examiner~y2009m9d4-Homeschoolers-score-higher-than-86-of-peers

73

PositiveOutlook

Nice try… it is actually the opposite… you devalue life to the point that you allow the “choice”, whether it is at one stage or another… In your attempt to equate the death penalty with abortion, the murderers death sentence is a judicial response to the guilty, the baby’s death through abortion is of the innocent… In your reasoninig, you do not support the choice of not ending the life of the guilty who has already ended the life of another and is paying the price for it, but you do support the choice of the single women to end the life of the innocent baby… That is some strange reasoning…

06 I value life…even the life of the guilty. Even if you are guilty of murder. Life in prison is fine with me. You stop valuing the guilty guy’s life.

If you release the single women from the responsibility of ending a babies life under the banner of choice, despite whether or not you practice it, still puts you in support of choice for single women…

06 You got it right SHE has the responsibility for the baby…not society. That is why we need to help her with her problem.

No, it makes her responsible for the decisions that lead up to it in the first place, which will lead to addressing it BEFORE it becomes a “problem”… If the decision did not involve another life, it wouldn’t be an issue… We are endowed by our Creator with the unalienable right to LIFE… it says NOTHING about stages… What bothers me the most, is the fact that these women are mislead and not given all the facts due to PROFIT motive, only to lead to more emotional damage later… then they feel they have to justifty it somehow… The abortion cycle is RIDDLED with nothing but damage and loss…

06 We agree. She has a choice. She is responsible for her decision. Thank you.

Yes, getting pregnant has to do with having cars… pregnancy is a requirement for having a baby… unless you are adopting…

06 LOL

No, I am saying that from a religious perspective, God ordained marriage… you are asking people to IGNORE what God has ordained in favor or what man WANTS to ordain… just because a clergyman inerrantly performs a service between a gay couple, does not make it a marriage in God’s eyes… It is not recognized by the Church… Just because I perform a service between a gay couple, doesn’t mean it’s recognized in the eyes of the state either… it has no authority… what you fail to recognize is that the states endorsement of a marriage only serves as a legal justification for financial and civil reasons only, not religious… which is why civil unions make sense as a tool for gay couples… that is what they are looking for anyway, primarily financial reasons… they cannot FORCE God to recognize that which He doesn’t by entwining marriage with something else that is the opposite of what He has ordained…

06 If god ordained marriage then why don’t you want that blessed ordnance to be bestowed on gay people?

Yes, and this was my point regarding civil unions… but instead, they are wasting their efforts on trying to FORCE religions and people to change what God has ordained… That is like an atheist dunking their baby in water an calling it a baptism… just because they do it, doesn’t make it so…

06 This is where you are confused. We are talking about conservatives saying that Gay marriage hurts families. Religions are separate and peculiar institutions. Some say you sprinkle some say you submerge. I say that Gay marriage has nothing to do with hurting or helping families…it is irrelevant to the family.

That is incredibly ignorant… Homeschoolers outperform their public AND private school counterparts… there are MILLIONS of kids homeschooled, and done by uncredited teachers (their parents), and yet they outperform their credited counterparts… Homeschooling is what was done for CENTURIES before it was put into the classroom (to teach the Bible, BTW)… They consistently achieve higher scores (ACT, SAT, etc.) across the board vs. private AND public schools… in addition, colleges find that homeschoolers enter college more prepared for college (which is why they score better there also), greater maturity, and go on to achieve a better standard of living…

06 Over 1.5 million children are homeschooled but only 11,700 took the Iowa Test of basic skills? That means that the numbers are skewed. Only the good students are tested. Saying the all these homeschooled kids do well is like me only reporting the numbers from the Horizons classes in public school and saying that all the public school kids are in the 90 percentile. There are a lot of non-schooled kids (what I will call them from now own) that are claimed as homeschooled so that they don’t have to go to school. Try to hire some of them. Ask them the questions you need answers to in order to hire them and you will see how their education is working for them.