Hello, I am looking for some advice, I am a Banker/Broker with Flagstar Bank and I have a client who is trying to refinance his income property. Here is what I know about the property and the situation…
He brought the mortgage current when it was lis pendens and purchased it “subject to”
He made 3 payments to countrywide and then they invoked the DOSC
There was a judgment in favor of countrywide and he paid them $26,000 according to the terms of the judgment but they sent him his money back.
He purchased the property in Dec of 04
The court settled the issue in March 06 and he was given a payoff that was good through 10/06
He has tried refinancing with countrywide and after I chased down all the documentation they wanted they refused to do the loan stating that it was assumed incorrectly.
The original loan was an assumable VA loan
I can’t find a decent account executive that can even understand what subject to is
I am down in florida where the ae’s are hired based on their looks and not what they know, I told this AE today about the deal and she said that’s weird…That’s what I got out of my 30 min conversation with her.
Option One wants some kind of mortgage history but Countrywide refused payment
The payoff is in the previous owners name still
Hunt Leibert is the firm that is representing Countrywide in this matter.
Has anyone been in this situation or know of someone that was in this situation? Does anyone know of a lender that would work with someone in this situation? He is on title to the home and even was able to evict the renters that the previous owner had in the property. It’s hard to even find lenders that know what the hell I am talking about…
Side Note- I have read through a few pages of this forum and have seen that when someone says they have seen or heard the DOSC being called all the sudden they are fear mongers. Well I have seen some of their stories and they are similar to my clients. What you fail to realize on the DOSC and foreclosure is that you have 1) a lender - In my case Deutche Bank who is being serviced by a servicer - 2) Countrywide who is being represented by attorneys - 3) Hunt Leibert. 2 & 3 Make money off of a foreclosure where 1) loses money. However the process is controlled mostly by 3) the attorney sets the pace for everything, if they take their time or lose paperwork or have to re-file or just haven’t gotten to the courthouse yet it can slow everything down.
Now in my case my borrower said he tried the short sale but countrywide refused to work with him and I take that to mean that they didn’t like his offer and he wouldn’t offer more. However, I have had a few run-ins with Hunt Leibert and Countrywide victims up in the North East, mostly in CT. Hunt Leibert love to foul up the process, I had one woman who’s lis-pendens from 9 months prior still showed up on her title because HL didn’t make it to the courthouse and was behind on their paperwork.
It’s not easy to refinance someone who is in foreclosure because of the DOSC. 1) a lot of conforming lenders don’t want to touch anything that smells of foreclosure. 2) if they haven’t been able to make a payment on the mortgage they have no mortgage history and without that even if you are on title without that mortgage history you can’t refinance it. I even went to Option One which is THE lender for refinancing lease options. Oh and countrywide rejected this refinance even though they were the ones servicing the loan in foreclosure, there is no reason for them to reject it, it’s 75% LTV SIVA NOO and it met all their guideline requirements. They rejected it and said it was assumed improperly. Same thing with Greenpoint, FNBA and Indymac won’t touch it.
You say it was purchased subject 2, then in another part, you say it was an assumable VA loan. Which was it?
Second, if the loan is in the previous sellers name, then the current owner isn’t on the loan and therefore, the foreclosure actions on the house don’t have a bearing on his ability to refinance.
Third, you state “the borrower tried the short sale”…when? The borrower doesn’t own the house anymore if it was a subject 2 deal.
This story is full of contradictions and holes. The fear monger comment leads me to one thing, and I’m sure the regular posters can figure it out.
The previous owner / property is. But since he believes he owns it and he has invested money in it and is on title and the bank is threatening to take it away does it really matter all that much who is in foreclosure? I am not here to debate over semantics, if you had vested interest in a property and the bank was threatening to take it away regardless of whether you were on the note or the mortgage I am sure you would consider yourself to be in foreclosure as well. Now does me responding to your post in any way shape or form provide you with additional vital information that will now allow you completely understand the situation so that you can contribute any positive insight as to my borrowers predicament or are you just bored and looking to argue over anything? I jumped on this bored looking for insight and wisdom I figured people who did subject 2’s a lot might have had some similar experiences and could recommend a good lender. But from what I have been reading most of you like to sit around and talk and theorize a lot and argue over stupid details but not many of you are actually practically applying any of this. I would appreciate posts / responses from people who walk the walk. Now the comes the real test, will I immaturely get flamed for my posting or won’t I? My question was, does anyone have experience with any lenders refinancing their property that they bought sub2 while it was in DOSC foreclosure? If you do could you please share the name of the lender? No need for comments or flames or stupid questions, if you can’t answer my question directly no need to respond, if you need more info to better accurately answer my question, please ask away. I am not here to waste time or bullshit around, I have money to make.
It was an Assumeable VA loan, as far as I know the property was purchased sub2 though, no other paperwork was filed, he used the sub2 method.
The borrower that I refer to is MY CLIENT, he is my borrower…
Third his ability to refinance the property is dictated by the underwriter / lenders he is trying to refinance the property with, not by whether or not he himself is in foreclosure. If a lender doesn’t want to touch it, they don’t have to.
The foreclosure has nothing to do with the current owner being able to refinance. It is NOT on his credit if this was bought subject 2. So yes, it DOES matter who is in foreclosure. The previous owner is, not the current one. What is the credit of the current owner? How much is the house worth, and what is owed on it? There are lenders who understand this, you just have to find them, The current owner is on title, it doesn’t matter what the lenders say.
Who is trying to refinance, the current owner, or the seller, whose name is still on the loan? If it’s the latter, he can’t refinance because he doesn’t own the house, and therefore has no collateral.
I am not who you think I am… I live in Tampa, Fl. I can direct you to the public records of the case involving the property I am working on. Or you can look up 20 may street in new britain on the new hartford county records site.
The person trying to refinance is the person who bought the property. Not the person listed in the foreclosure. NO the foreclosure doesn’t show up on the person who is trying to refi’s credit but it does show up on the title search and so do the liens attached to the property by the person listed in the foreclosure. And your comment about finding a lender who will work with these cases was the exact reason I made my post in the first place. So you have come full circle to my original point and original question again “does anyone know of a lender who will deal with properties in this situation?” You have lots of answers, can you answer that question?
There as a second mortgage, a lien on the property by ford motor credit and a lien on there by the county / city / township utility company for utilities in arrears. I didn’t tell this guy to do this deal or not do this deal, this was a loan I inherited from an associate who left the company and it was assigned to me to finish off because I had the most experience. No where do I make a comment or a personal preference about sub2’s. I have done plenty of research on properties for myself to buy sub2. Florida and parts of Arizona are hot right now for foreclosures and California is heating up too, I had a mailman try to refinance with me, but no matter what I did I couldn’t get him a $550k loan for his 2/1 in the OC, he had good credit when we started, mid 600’s then a lender pulled his credit about 45 days - 60 days into the process and he dropped to high 500’s from carrying maxxed out debt load. I haven’t checked but I would guess he is has seen lis-pendens by now.
I am not sure about the ford motor credit lien being on there when he took title, the guy does a lot of investing and equity trading. I can’t imagine that he didn’t know about the liens and didn’t factor them into his profit margin. He is paying off the debts, getting $15,000 cash out and is still at 75% LTV - it will be a rental property for him and is already leased out. He first acquired the property in December 2004. So it has been a big mess for him. He does have a competent attorney as well. Going back to the short sale - He told me he tried to purchase it from the lender directly but they wouldn’t work with him. Like I said I interpret that to mean that they couldn’t come to a mutual agreement on an offer. I am not saying my client did things the right way or the wrong way all I am saying is he is in a mess now and I am trying to help clean it up. I only know what he tells me and if he F*d up somewhere I am sure he is not going to own up to it to me.
If the Ford lien was against the previous owner, and was not recorded before the current owner took title, then it’s not a valid lien.
The 3 questions I asked in the previous post are important, along with the title issues. What is owed on the first, second, ford, the utility arrearages, and all other liens, including the foreclosure action, plus appraised value and the current owners credit.
I don’t have the exact numbers of what is owed in front of me here at home, I can post them when I get into the office.
As for Credit - You know who the party is if you look up the records, since we have privacy policies and I do work for an FDIC bank I cannot violate these policies or I can be terminated or worse. I have left enough of a paper trail for the right people to put all the pieces together and find me. I can say that he has great credit, good enough to qualify for just about any product on an NOO Stated Income Verfied Assets at 75% LTV with just about any conforming lender. This is enough information to let you figure out what his score might be. But we can say it’s good enough to do whatever he wants to do.
The appraised value is about $150k. The product I am trying to get him is a fixed for 5 year Steady / Power Option ARM 3% below note rate IO payment. No Negative AM… the rate would be 3.75% and the payment would be $350 Interest Only fixed for 5 Yesars.
If the total of all liens is 75%, then there is no reason he can’t get a loan with good credit. He owns the property. The foreclosure action can’t stop him from paying the debts off. It doesn’t matter if he bought subject 2 or not.
Post the details in the financing/hard money section. They dont need to know all of the details, just that he bought subject 2, and if he owes 75% of appraised value and has great credit, he should not have any problem getting a new loan.
The bottom line, he owns the property, and the debts owed are 75% of appraised value. That is all that matters. The creditors can’t stop him from getting a new loan, as long as it is enough to pay all of the debts. HE owns the property.
It doesn’t make sense to me either. Everything is getting paid off so the title company has no issues with it, Land America has no problem granting him title insurance on it. I don’t know why the lenders are balking from it. They say it was not assumed correctly. The only thing I can think of is because it was a VA Loan he was supposed to do something he didn’t do, instead he just bought it sub2 like with any other property, he assumed because the VA Loans are assumable that he wouldn’t have any problems. I would think his attorney would of caught this if it were the issue. My other problem is finding people to talk to at the lenders who know what the F* I am talking about. AE’s are not educated enough to know what I am saying and they are getting scared away, no AE wants to deal with it with a loan size of $112,000. If it were $300k+ they would be banging down my door for it.
That would be Hartford county, not New Hartford county if anyone is going to look it up. Hartford is the capitol city, Hartford county is the county its in and New Hartford is a podunk town out in the boonies.
I have done at least 50 or 60 deals that Countrywide was the lender without a problem.
The incident sited was the blind leading the blind.
Everyone knows that a veteran who served their country and has a VA loan can apply under “hardship” circumstances to transfer their loan to someone else. What has been discribed above certainly falls within those “hardship” guidelines.
From the VA site:
Private Sale
You may sell the property to a buyer who obtains his or her own financing and pays off your GI loan or to a buyer who will “assume” your responsibility for the loan.
If you read through the Veterans Administration site you will find various ways the VA has set up programs to help the Veteran under hardship circumstances in transferring their property to someone else.
There are to many variables in this post that do not make sense.