mrbpostv,
Dont let the door hit in you in the a$$ on the way out…
on why they cant be successful
I live in a middle class family, in a small town with a incredibly slow market. Nobody moves to my town.
I could use this as the perfect excuse why I cant get involved in Real Estate.
I could say “I want to to Real Estate, but I live in a small town, and houses dont sell.”
I could say “Real Estate is for the richer people, you have to have money to make money. If I had richer parents that could get me started I would be on my way, but I dont”
If you want to be successful, you cant think like this. Many people however, make excuses and lie to themselves so they can believe that its other peoples fault they arent getting what they want.
I don’t think this is about my post at all. This is all about the idea that I’m not some touchy-feely socialist that believes there is some good in everyone. What’s more, he’s absolutely right! As with everyone else in the rental property business, I see the scum of the earth on a daily basis (applicants). People who will lie about everything including their name; people who are too lazy to work; druggies who will sell their soul (if they’ve got one) for a piece of crack; people who are criminals and deadbeats and would like nothing better than to cheat their landlord out of the rent with a bunch of lies and excuses. It is also clear that my "victim’ comment didn’t go over well.
I completely understand his naive thinking. While I was never very touchy-feely, before I got in the rental property business, I didn’t know that the evil people that I now see on a daily basis even existed. I generally trusted what people said and took their word at face value. Operating a rental property business is a real eye-opener!
mrtpostv,
I do have a suggestion for you - DON’T GO INTO THE RENTAL BUSINESS. You are not cut out for it! Maybe something in social work would be better for you. Ideally, some volunteer work possibly with the homeless. In fact, c’mon down. I’m evicting 3 deadbeats over the next 3 days and they will all be homeless. Btw, that is their choice, not mine. If they would have paid the rent on time instead of buying too much beer, they might still have a roof over their heads! No, I don’t feel the least bit sorry for them.
Good Luck,
Mike
Mike speaks in black and white. Abrupt and to the point. Many people do not like that. People need things sugar coated so they can feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :rolleyes
[i]“And the TRUTH will set you freeeee!!” [i]Jim Carey- Liar Liar :biggrin
Geez, I always thought Don Corleone came up with that. Learn something new everyday!
I have been landlording since 1981. I did everything on my own. I had no real estate training, no REI club with experienced investors I could turn to for advice, and no mentor looking over my shoulder. I just jumped into the deep end of the pool and learned how to swim.
I first became aware of REI forums such as this one in 1995. That is when I learned that there were real estate investing techniques I had never heard of. I learned about lease options and sandwich lease options from Jim Piper. I first learned about Subject To investing from John Locke. I learned about 1031 exchanges from Bill Bronchick and John Hyre. I learned about cooperative assignments from Michael Carbonare. I learned about funding your deals with private bankers from Merle Wooley.
I learned about and explored all these techniques from several REI forums such as this one and have benefitted from the free exchange of information and ideas. I never had to buy a book or course from any of these guys to learn what I know now. This site even gives you a link to a free book on Lease Options written by David Finkle
Because of these forums I know more about trusts from BLL and Gary Mailocq. John Merchant’s opinion on legal issues is usually enlightening.
All of these folks have contributed their time and expertise to forums such as this one withing requiring me to purchase any of their materials. If the ability to market their materials to the forum membership will induce these folks to keep contributing freely to these forums, then I accept that. I also accept that it is the paid advertising and product marketing that keeps this site free for all of us.
Now, I appreciate that you are a bit skeptical. That is healthy. I don’t for a minute believe you are the “gullible newbie” that you claim, otherwise you would not have called Mike (propertymanager) to task. We need folks like you to challenge the advice given in these forums.
I can also appreciate that you might take offense to the specific post you referenced. I thought Mike’s tone was a little sharp, but I accepted that because of the context.
Mike was answering a specific question asked by SBP. SBP was a naive newbie who had a rude awakening. He wanted to know how to get out of a bad investment with his skin intact. Mike’s response was a slap in the face but pointed. If Mike had simply said
“If you subscribe to the greater fool theory, then you need to find a greater fool to sell your property to.”
would you have found the advice any less objectionable? That is all Mike did. In so many words, Mike said there are greater fools and told SBP that the best way to get out of his predicament is to find one. In not so many words, Mike also told SBP to use investment metrics (such as cap rate, IRR, cash on cash return, NOI, and DSCR) and to adopt sound investment criteria to avoid being the greater fool the next time he decides to invest in a rental property.
As for myself, I don’t have any products to sell. I am not interested in profiting from others in any way. I achieved financial independence a long time ago and don’t need to sell anything, buy anything, conduct a boot camp, or lead a seminar to put food on the table.
I contribute to these forums because I learned what I know about real estate in the school of hard knocks and did it without a scholarship. I made mistakes and lost my own money along the way. I just hope that my experiences will help someone else avoid some of the potholes that dot the real estate investing landscape.
I encourage you to retain your skepticism and to continue participating in these forums. I believe you will be a better informed investor as a result.
Dave T
Will you write something so those of us who like reading your posts can buy it? I am always fascinated with your perspective and approach… You remind me of my Pastor who says a “Wise” man listens then waits to speak until fear and anger are gone so reason can be heard.
I know I certainly haven’t mastered that waiting thing yet…
I do think Mike gets a little opinionated at times but heck I bet he is a great singer at a Karaoke Bar. Probably would defend a friend’s honor even if they didn’t deserve it… Apparently he provides homes for scum bags… That’s not a bad quality.
As to the Original Poster, how boring would this Place be if everyone had to agree… My Goodness…
There is a line from "Good Morning Vietnam that may apply…
Thanks Dave T.,
I do appreciate your response. As opposed to the bleak rescue attempts of the REI Frat Boys gone wild.
I have and will keep one hand on the computer to Peruse as well as one hand on my wallet.
It’s interesting that the alleged purpose of the forums are to give money saving advice and clearly when the “Helpers” are advising investors to … well I won’t use my words (since the Frat house wants to shoot the messenger) “…Market to newbies at your local REIA” …and "There are millions of gullible newbies out there and all you need to do is find one. "
However, these Newbies are on one hand constantly encouraged to join/attend the local REI clubs while CLEARLY the “fox guards the hen house”.
And if I were a VICTIM I would walk into that trap. Instead, I will read… BUT I will read far more than some may think.
You go on helping the Newbies Your way by “T-ing them Up” for the slaughter and I post to them what is FACT (I didn’t write it… too bad) and you gone on bitchin about being exposed.
My suggestion is, let the Newbie NOT be the Victim and check out thoroughly all the
self proclaimed Messiahs of REI that Just GIVE, GIVE, GIVE… Before taking the advice.
Personally, am I skeptical… yes. And I’m called stupid because I don’t bow down to the big fish in the little bum (F-ornication U-nder C-onsent of the K-ing) Ohiopond… Guilty.
I say a Leopard doesn’t change it’s spots. You all have your opinion… thanks for sharing it, duly noted. So, bring on the VICTIMS… let them read…
if they are as stupid as you claim, it won’t matter now will it? So, that leads us back to the real motives behind the Frat Boys scurry around like COCK ROACHES when the light comes on… why? Victims are Victims… they’ll read my post and it won’t matter so…
Why don’t you all NOT TAKE YOURSELVES so seriously??
Hey Mike, to your point “I do have a suggestion for you - DON’T GO INTO THE RENTAL BUSINESS. You are not cut out for it! Maybe something in social work would be better for you. Ideally, some volunteer work possibly with the homeless. In fact, c’mon down. I’m evicting 3 deadbeats over the next 3 days and they will all be homeless. Btw, that is their choice, not mine. If they would have paid the rent on time instead of buying too much beer, they might still have a roof over their heads! No, I don’t feel the least bit sorry for them.”
Wow. OMG !!! You sound like life is peaceful, fullfilling, and …
If I thought for one minute that to be in REI would put me in your world… why in the HELL (apparently where you live) would I want that. So, if YOU OF ALL PEOPLE are right… God help us all. The quality of life is how you feel. You may want to re-evalute your philosophy of life… whatever you still have left.
ps… to Frat Boy # … oh well, I lost count… Anyone above let’s say YOUR IQ, knows that “PM” does push his product (fine with me… blah, blah) EVERYTIME HE POSTS on his signature line… But then again you already knew that… your not that stupid.
mrbpostv
With that attitude you won’t survive one day in business.
Business is cutthroat. It’s not pretty. People will cheat you, lie to you, steal from you. And often times they will do it for sport just for the fun of it.
Propertymanager will help you on the forum giving you honest advice because he isn’t your direct competitor. You won’t get the same advice from him if you were face to face with him.
Same with me. I talk about Yellow letters, NOD lists, marketing strategies etc etc on these forums because I’m not afraid of helping someone out halfway across the country.
But there is no way in hell I would say even 10% of what I say on these forums to ANY other investor living in my own city.
In conclusion, either grow a thicker skin or business in general isn’t for you.
Propertymanager will help you on the forum giving you honest advice because he isn't your direct competitor. You won't get the same advice from him if you were face to face with him.
Tien,
I must disagree with you on this point. I give newbies the very same advice even if they are in my local area. At least in my area, there really is no competition. Like many other areas, there are really very few successful investors in the area. The vast majority of newbies are busy paying retail; going out of business; and selling to another newbie (in a continuous cycle). Those are not deals that experienced investors would touch. While great deals are always difficult to find, most of the time when I find a great deal, there is no competition to be found. I find deals through my contacts and the other successful investors don’t know about it. When they find a great deal through their contacts, I won’t know about it (until after the deal is closed) . Even if I did, in the rental business, it is not necessary to be continuously buying. In fact, once you have enough rentals to meet your income goal, it may never be necessary to buy another rental.
In addition, there are a BUNCH of different niches in the rental business. I like to take over low income buildings that are in distress, normally when they are infested with druggies. I like to turn them around; rehab them; and put better tenants in them. That’s my niche. Other landlords concentrate on other niches. So, even though we might be looking for deals at the same time, I might be looking for something different than the other investors.
When I joined my local REIA, another successful landlord took me under her wing and taught me the business. She did not expect anything in return and was happy to help a new investor. She did this because she knew that there were plenty of deals to go around and because REIA members help each other out. That’s what REIA (and this forum) are all about.
Mike
You absolutely won’t survive this business. If you think Mike is intimadating then you really have no idea what this business entails. Plus you would never have the nerve to take the plunge anyway. Good luck with your other endeavors. Keep it coming Mike. I have and will continue to enjoy your posts.
mrbpostv,
I am a newbie in REI, although not in business… That being said I am benefiting greatly from this site and have not bought anything from anyone’s website… yet (sorry guys… :cool). I hope that what I have posted on various subjects is also helpful to others.
I am curious though about your philosphical approach to this… I think your original post missed the fact that no matter how Mike put his point across, it seems to me that what it boils down to is that Mike was telling the "newbie’ to sell his property at whatever the market will bear based on the buyers perceived value (whether they are a newbie or not, they are still a buyer).
Are you saying that this is somehow ripping someone off? If so, how do plan on selling your property? For example. if a buyer (let’s say a newbie investor) gets into a bidding war with another investor on one of your properties you are wholesaling for rehab or rental, and the experienced investor knows when to pull out, and the newbie buys from you at a price other more experienced investors would walk away from, are you then ripping the newbie off or do you plan to refund the difference of what you perceive is fair?
I don’t know you, so please don’t think anything written is a slam, but rather something to think about…
As far as quotes are concerned… I have two - “pride cometh before the fall” and - “you have two ears and one mouth… use them proportionately.” - especially when you have access to decades of experience from various walks of life in REI for the taking.
When I joined my local REIA, another successful landlord took me under her wing and taught me the business. She did not expect anything in return and was happy to help a new investor. She did this because she knew that there were plenty of deals to go around and because REIA members help each other out. That’s what REIA (and this forum) are all about.
No, Mike! Say it isn’t so! Someone helped you out without expecting anything in return? We simply don’t do that! I perish at the thought.
Seriously (btw, WE, that is the ‘Frat Boys’ are being “less serious.” I believe that it YOU, Sir, that needs to take themselves less serious), if you had the ability to step away from this for a moment, mrbpostv, you’d see how idiotic you sound with your posts. I assume that your goal (at least initially) was to learn, yet you’re complaining about that very ability to learn. Kind of like a dog that bites the hand that feeds.
What offended you so much anyway? The suggestion to sell it to someone else less educated on the subject or simply the term “newbie?”
Dave T already asked once (with no response), so I’ll ask again (sorry, don’t go for the touchy-feely response of Dave), instead of saying “newbie” as someone to sell to, would you have liked it better if he’d said, “sell it to one of those people who are too lazy or cheap to try to learn HOW the this business works before jumping in or one of those people who think that they know more than everybody else at ANYTHING, so they don’t need to ‘learn’ from more experienced people.” Would that have made a difference?
I’d say not, because the issue isn’t what was said at all, is it?
Other interesting points:
You respond to Dave’s, oh…let’s say, more humble, approach, to your post, yet can’t answer any question, even by him, posed to you.
You say that Mike is advertising his product simply by placing a link in his signature line (which is allowed by forum rules), yet I’ve never once seen a post from him that says “it’s explained in the book” or “click on the link below” or similar. In fact, he, as well as all of us, have said on many occassions (including this thread) EVERYTHING you need to know is in these forums. Books and courses are generally designed to put ALL the information of a particular topic between to covers, thus saving the reader time in researching the subject. If you don’t want to buy the book, don’t. No one is forcing you to even look at the tagline, let alone click on it.
Raj
mrbpostv obviously has a deeply rooted conviction that we are all cheats and swindlers. He refuses to accept that some of us will give their two cents worth of advice without asking for change.
Time for the moderators to lock this thread and for the rest of us to move on to other topics.
Yeah this thread is pretty retarded.
Close it down please.
FWIW I bought Mike’s book!
I GOT SUCKERED OMG OMG OMG. I GOT TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF ARGHHHHHHHHH.
mrbpostv
Me and Mike has had some differences in the past awhile back. So I’m not one of those “REI FRAT BOYS” or in his back pocket. But to be honest he has helped a lot of people on this forum. His posts and replies are straight forward and cut and dry. That is what newbies need around here so they dont make mistakes, they need the truth. What do you think Mike (or anyone for that matter) should just agree with everyone on the forum? I don’t see where he has taken advantage of anyone. He can be direct at times and get into your feelers a little. But it’s good sound advice that we all need to hear. Just continue to read and absorb all the FREE info this site has to offer and go make some deals. Then you can give people some good advice yourself (well maybe). Disagreeing with someone is one thing but badgering Mike about his posts are another. Just keep reading and chill, this site is a good place to be and there are some really good people on here that want to help, yes including Mike! So get your head out of the :flush and learn something.
Hey Mike,
About a year ago didn’t you buy a bunch of properties from several of those “WELL EDUCATED” "WELL EXPERIENCED"California investors who just knew it all, or were they one of those “GULLIBLE NEWBIES” that you took “advantage” of? I think they were the lazy ones who failed to get educated, don’t you? You just took advantage of a good business deal (not someone personally) just on someone else’s mistakes. In my opinion I dont think it mattered if they were “GULLIBLE NEWBIES” or “WELL EDUCATED” or “WELL EXPERIENCED”. It was smart business!!
What do you think mrbpostv, did he do anything wrong with those deals? What would you do, pass on the deals because they were “GULLIBLE NEWBIES”?
In all your words, you said nothing new. Surprise. I’ve read 100’s of his posts on this and other forums as well as his blog. Don’t think anything less of him than when I started. Done with the thread. See my previous post.
You have your opinion.
Good, Keep drinkin the Kool-Aid. As for me, I’m still waiting on the beer I was promised… defaulted… surprise again. :beer
Seriously mrbpostv, what is your problem?
If you dont like what you hear from here, why dont you just log off and go on another board?
The people from this board are highly successful at this business and they are trying to help us that want to learn.
I learn more on this board then what I do any books and programs.
Why exactly are you tryin’ to cause trouble?
mrbpostv…
I said nothing new except to challenge the basis of your argument/philisophy, which when examined falls apart and just becomes a personal attack on Mike’s choice of words, and are without merit, IMHO… there really is no way to make it work come to think of it - assuming you buy to make a profit on what the market will bear… re-read the post to make it clear…
Best of luck in your REI career… sincerely.
Hey Mike,About a year ago didn’t you buy a bunch of properties from several of those “WELL EDUCATED” "WELL EXPERIENCED"California investors who just knew it all, or were they one of those “GULLIBLE NEWBIES” that you took “advantage” of? I think they were the lazy ones who failed to get educated, don’t you? You just took advantage of a good business deal (not someone personally) just on someone else’s mistakes. In my opinion I dont think it mattered if they were “GULLIBLE NEWBIES” or “WELL EDUCATED” or “WELL EXPERIENCED”. It was smart business!!
John,
Just to be accurate, I have never purchased property from anyone in California. I have posted about some of the California investors that had properties near mine that failed because they paid too much for their property. I certainly have bought a lot of properties from failed landlords and I would buy from California investors if they were DESPERATE enough. In addition, I have purchased many other properties from other DESPERATE owners. This is certainly not a “win-win” like some of the gurus tout, but I’m in business to make money, not to bail out failed owners.