“fact that using the term infanticide is ridiculous. Partial birth abortion I believe is the correct term”
Christopher, since you are a Wikipedia fan, I wanted to work from your point of reference…
Wikipedia - “Infanticide is the practice of someone intentionally causing the death of an infant.”
Are you saying that Partial Birth Abortion is not someone intentionally causing the death of an infant?
www.dictionary.com
in-fan-ti-cide [in-fan-tuh-sahyd]
- noun
Of course the military went into Iraq geared up for WMD’s because the doctored evidence that the President used to lie to the American people showed they were there. Come to find out…“Um no WMD’s here sir”. How was the President going to say all the WMD’s were there, and then not have the troops prepared for it? Duh??
It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.
Sounds like you took that quote directly from Bush’s evidence…
As for my understanding of the income level of the working poor I believe it is self-explanatory. I just provided you the definition so we are on the same page, because from what I am reading it looks as if you agree that it is okay for someone working below the poverty line to pay the same percentage in taxes as someone making 1M a year. For what reason are you asking my understanding? Does that really make a difference?
You can throw the numbers around about the election all you want if you don’t believe that a LARGE portion of this country was ready for a change from the previous administration you are kidding yourself.
It was actually 53% to 46% which puts it closer to your EN MASSE number than before.
http://election.cbsnews.com/election2008/
Electoral votes
Democrats-365
Rep-176
Republicans lost 9 seats in the senate and 24 seats in the house. Keep in mind that not all Senate seats were up for re-election at this time. So when you take that into account of the 35 seats that were up for grabs 20 went Dem and 15 went Rep which is 58% to 42% which based on the definition you presented shows an EN MASSE vote.
I believe the numbers speak for themselves although its funny how numbers can be manipulated for any purpose.
in⋅fant /ˈɪnfənt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-fuhnt] Show IPA
–noun 1. a child during the earliest period of its life, esp. before he or she can walk; baby.
fe⋅tus /ˈfitəs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fee-tuhs] Show IPA
–noun, plural -tus⋅es. Embryology. (used chiefly of viviparous mammals) the young of an animal in the womb or egg, esp. in the later stages of development when the body structures are in the recognizable form of its kind, in humans after the end of the second month of gestation.
So now you are saying that a fetus is an infant?
As for your charts and graphs I do find them entertaining but they hardly tell the whole story… For example at the peak of oil prices last year (June 2008) oil was selling for $126.33 per barrel and gas was costing over$4.00 a gallon. by December of 2008 oil was selling for $32.94 a barrel yet gasoline was still selling in parts of the country for almost $2.00 a gallon. In fact Oil is now back up over $50 a barrel yet gasoline is still over $2.00 a gallon in most parts of the country. Hmmmm
Your drop does not seem quite as steep when you look at it like that now does it?
Christopher,
So glad we can agree that politics is ran by self serving and special interests.We need a desperate system cleansing.This was a promise made by obama,that’s why alot of people voted for “change” and were betrayed by just another politician.I looked @ his voting record,when he was’nt “present” he stayed strictly in line with his party.We can give him all the time in the world to try to clean up this mess we’re ALL in.But the solid roots are still broken as you & I see eye to eye in the broken system that does’nt hold the ones we elect & pay to even have the option to vote “present”.What’s your view on term limits?I feel this is a positive step in out of control govt.
[i][b]“It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.”
“Christopher - Sounds like you took that quote directly from Bush’s evidence…”[/b][/i]
Actually Christopher, that was Hillary Clinton 2002… the other quote was Bill Clinton 1998… Thank you for making my point…
You forgot to scroll down when you looked up infant
Infant
"by December of 2008 oil was selling for $32.94 a barrel yet gasoline was still selling in parts of the country for almost $2.00 a gallon. "
Actually no, the graph show the US Retail Gas Prices… which in December it was in the $1.60 range, and then went further down to the $1.34 range. Point was, you tried to say that their profits did not drop, and as we can see, Exxon had a substantial drop… THAT was my point…
Partial Birth abortion - as if calling it a fetus vs. a baby is any less gruesome… The term fetus is used up until they are born… Partial birth abortion is a term used for killing a baby, oops “fetus” that IS viable, and completely formed… are you saying you support this barbaric practice?
My guess is when people start aborting for politically incorrect reasons (i.e. - being a woman, homosexual, blue-eyes, etc.), the debate will change…
Ummm, Hello we all thought that there were WMD’s in Iraq because the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES went in front of the American People and said he had evidence. How can you sit there and try to say otherwise when it has been proven that this evidence was at BEST faulty and at WORST doctored.
My point being you can sit there and complain about the current spending and blah, blah, blah; but you refuse to own up to the fact that we are wasting a BILLION dollars a day in Iraq with no end in sight. Why are you not complaining about that? Oh yeah because you are brainwashed into being unable to see both sides of the argument, and it is easier to sit there and complain about the current situation that it is to sit down and think “maybe I should question all of the leadership in this country and not just democrats or liberals”. I know you have a brain in your head why not try using it for something other than blindly following what Rush Limbaugh spews out every day.
As for your abortion argument… you are wasting your time trying to push it on me. When men start to have the ability to carry children then we will have a say in it. Until then it is pretty much up to the woman, and no matter how many facts you provide, no matter how many days you spend parading in front of abortion clinics carrying that wooden cross on your back nothing is going to change that. The woman carrying the child is going to have the final say, and based on the fact that the current president is pro-choice I don’t see Roe v. Wade getting overturned anytime soon. Period.
christopher,
Someday you might transcend your liberal programming and realize that abortion is predominantly a human rights issue and not only a woman’s issue as the programmers have taught you. Its implications are incremental and devastating more so to humanity in general than to the woman having one. Instead of immediately dismissing Lyndon LaRouche, you may want to research his point of view and then make commentary.
JP
Jf,
Nothing personal but you have proven yourself to be a moron by your backing of Lyndon Larouche (a convicted felon as well as a former socialist) so forgive me if I choose to avoid debating with you. I was always taught to only pick on people my own size (both mentally and physically).
Yeah, Christopher, I’m brainwashed… :rolleyes
“The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein RETAINS some stockpiles of CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL warfare capabilities. INTELLIGENCE reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons…” - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV) October 2002
“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the AUTHORITY TO USE FORCE - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein BECAUSE I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security” - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA) October 2002
“There is UNMISTAKABLE EVIDENCE that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next FIVE YEARS. We also should remember we have ALWAYS underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.” - Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV) October 2002
“We have known FOR MANY YEARS that Saddam Hussein is seeking AND developing weapons of mass destruction.” - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA) September 2002
“We KNOW that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons THROUGHOUT his country.” - Al Gore (D, former VP of US in the previous administration) September 2002
“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proved IMPOSSIBLE to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.” - Al Gore (D, former VP of US in the previous administration) September 2002
“We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. WITHOUT QUESTION, we need to DISARM Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime… He presents a PARTICULARLY GRIEVOUS THREAT because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has CONTINUED deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction… So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is REAL…” Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA) January 2003
“There is NO DOUBT that Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons program. REPORTS indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs CONTINUE apace and may be back to PRE-GULF WAR status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is DOUBTLESS using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.” - Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Joe Lieberman (D, CT) and others, December 2001 pushing for action on Iraq
[b]Bill Clinton, on multiple occasions, ALSO agreed with Bush that there WMD’s.
[/b]From CNN - [i][b]"Noting that Bush had to be “reeling” in the wake of the attacks of September 11, 2001, Clinton said Bush’s first priority was to keep al Qaeda and OTHER TERRORIST NETWORKS from obtaining “chemical and biological weapons or small amounts of fissile material.”
“That’s WHY I SUPPORTED the Iraq thing. There was a lot of stuff unaccounted for,” Clinton said in reference to Iraq and the fact that U.N. weapons inspectors left the country in 1998.
“Says Bush ‘couldn’t responsibly ignore’ chance Iraq had WMDs”
[/b][/i]
These quotes were taken from 911 on… and they are CONSISTENT with the previous administrations SAME assertions, which was the point. And the quotes from people closer to the actual event are more actual than the CYA maneuvering afterward’s, as we can see with Pelosi and waterboarding.
What’s important about these quotes are not that these are just Democrats, but the Democrats who sit on congressional committee’s that had the access to the same intelligence Bush was seeing.
If there were anyway that this were not the case, and Bush “completely made it up”, according to you, you don’t think these LIFER and in most of their cases HYPER-PARTISAN Democrats wouldn’t be all over the impeachment thing with the media on their side WAITING for the next Woodward and Bernstein moment?
They KNOW they cannot make this case, which is why they continue to make the assertion that “he lied”, etc. with the media NOT reporting their same role or the media actually reporting evidence to the contrary… so it becomes “accepted”… It worked on you…
You also forget that Iraq was the “front” for the war on terror, with Bin Ladin asserting this same fact…
As far as a “billion a day in Iraq” - while I am not happy at about the money being spent, like generation before who had to do the same, at least THAT is what the government is SUPPOSED to do and is their PRIMARY ROLE, defending the United States… unlike bailing out banks, the auto industry, recklessly spending TRILLIONS of dollars, on what was NEVER in their charter… BTW, DWARFING what was spent in two wars DEFENDING the country… How do you feel about BORROWING 50 cents for EVERY DOLLAR Obama is spending, which is NOT part of the governments charter
Saddam held out until the end… He thought it was going to be another four-day air-strike… he miscalculated Bush, in his own words… But I guess it was all for the better as the Iraqi people are no longer under a dictator… Although he was no fan of Bin Ladin, Hussein ABSOLUTELY supported terrorists
“been proven that this evidence was at BEST faulty and at WORST doctored.” - If it’s been PROVEN, it is either faulty OR doctored… as we can see from the fact that the Dem’s and the media were not able to make the case, it was FAULTY, which given the circumstances it was better to fall on the side of caution, and Bill Clinton said the same thing… As we saw, Al Qada joined up with other terrorist groups in and out of Iraq, is it that far a leap to think that Saddam would not have done the same if left in power or at minimum provided funds and material support? In the wake of 911, a decision had to be made, and I don’t think history will vindicate your POV on this…
With regards to abortion, I’m not trying to “push” anything on you or anyone else… all I am doing is presenting information and engaging people on it, getting them to think beyond their current mindset and then present a defense of their position with new information… But I guess since you chose NOT to say that you are against the barbaric practice of partial birth abortion, we’ll have to assume you support it until you tell us otherwise…
Do you also support abortions in the 2nd and 3rd trimester?
“Nothing personal but you have proven yourself to be a moron by your backing of Lyndon Larouche (a convicted felon as well as a former socialist) so forgive me if I choose to avoid debating with you. I was always taught to only pick on people my own size (both mentally and physically).” - Who’s talking down to whom, Christopher? You are becoming more and more liberal as you type… the dark side is taking over… :shocked
…of course, there is no such thing as liberal hypocrisy… :rolleyes
Is it just me or is anyone else really tired of this "anything’s better than the last 8yrs"illusion?That works well if you were just born this year,but for the rest of us(who are’nt being told what to remember)I’ll take 02-06 over the current condition anytime.Weird how it’s always the full 8yrs,leaving out the house democrates took over in 06.Wait,thats weird,thats about when things started goin downhill.Sorry to still have a memory.Also during those “terrible"years the middle class progressed to upper&lower progressed to middle so compared to now which is causing this in reverse and lower is growing, how are we supposed to sit back & say give it a chance it’s only been 5months.If the boat is sinking due to drilling holes in it,why would you just sit there and say"I’m gonna give this more time,see how it goes”!!?
It is an excellent point, Sellinbama…
The Dem’s have not only been in control since 2006, but unlike the Rep’s today, with the Dem’s having a fillubuster-proof vote once the fiasco in Minnesota is over, the Rep’s did not have the same, so ANYTHING the Dem’s really WANTED to stop, they COULD have…
I absolutely fault Bush for not vetoing the spending, but it is ludicrous to think they DEM’s did not share in the spending… Just look at the votes… where is the accountability for the Dem’s who voted for the same spending that they criticize Bush for?
As far as a “billion a day in Iraq” - while I am not happy at about the money being spent, like generation before who had to do the same, at least THAT is what the government is SUPPOSED to do and is their PRIMARY ROLE, defending the United States… unlike bailing out banks, the auto industry, recklessly spending TRILLIONS of dollars, on what was NEVER in their charter… BTW, DWARFING what was spent in two wars DEFENDING the country… How do you feel about BORROWING 50 cents for EVERY DOLLAR Obama is spending, which is NOT part of the governments charter
Of course they had access to the same information as the President; he is the one who directed the CIA to acquire or should i say “produce” it. I’m sorry I don’t see how fixing what WE broke (the entire country of Iraq) is our primary responsibility. But once again instead of owning up to a mistake you pull out a bunch of quotes and numbers and try to just cover up what has turned out to be our generation’s Vietnam. I am sure you are familiar with the “you break it, you own it” quote. Well guess what perhaps when you are at your next foreclosure auction you should inquire about getting a big piece of Iraq at .30 cents on the dollar cuz guess what “we own it”. I’m glad you have no problem throwing money at Bush’s mistake, and I am so warm and fuzzy that you feel good for the Iraqi people now that they are no longer under a dictator, but you don’t want to help bail out the people of this country? Perhaps you could enlighten me on what your ideal solution to the collapse of the financial sytem would have been? Or the collapse of the Auto industry? The fall-out on the millions of people that would have lost their jobs? Please I would be happy to hear what you have to say other than finger pointing and blame…
As for your abortion rhetoric… I am choosing to ignore your pitiful baiting as it just gives you more of a reason to spout your pitiful dreck.
I really wish that the world that I live in was as black and white as yours where it seems to be so easy to just pick a side and defend it to my last breath. Unfortunately (or maybe I should say fortunately) the world I live in has many colors and I choose to listen to all sides before I make a decision. So if that makes me liberal then guess what I am liberal. I don’t just let some radio talk show host fill my head with garbage and then go out and push it on people.
To quote Abe Froman “The Sausage King of Chicago”- “You sir are an imbecile”.
And YES that is me talking down to you.
Christopher…
"Of course they had access to the same information as the President; he is the one who directed the CIA to acquire or should i say “produce” -
Prove it… don’t just say it, PROVE IT… if you COULD, we would have been in impeachment proceedings… You are telling me that this would NOT be page one and beat to death about calling for impeachment… You are just holding to your position DESPITE being provided with OVERWHELMING evidence to the contrary… kind of what you accused me of, eh? Like I said, PROVE that BUSH "directed the CIA to acquire or should i say “produce” the intelligence… :rolleyes
So Bush “produced” the intelligence that France and Germany, who were against the war, had that came to the SAME conclusion… that’s quite a reach BUSH has… or you are wrong…
“I am choosing to ignore your pitiful baiting as it just gives you more of a reason to spout your pitiful dreck.” -
No, you are CHOOSING to ignore it because you can’t defend it… when it comes down to it, Christopher, you can’t defend it… If it it “pitiful”, as you put it, it should be easy to discount, you can’t even engage on it… :bs
"To quote Abe Froman “The Sausage King of Chicago”- “You sir are an imbecile”. And YES that is me talking down to you.’
Like I said, no such thing as liberal hypocrisy… at least for ONCE you are owning up to it…
If the evidence was so credible. Where were the WMD’s? Very interesting that after we were already at war, and the evidence on the WMD’s turned out to be seriously flawed or non-existent all of the sudden the focus of the war was “regime change”. All of the sudden we were the “liberators of the Iraqi people”. Talk about playing CYA.
As for your annoying abortion rhetoric… by continuing to debate you it is like teaching a pig to dance. It goes nowhere and it annoys the pig. I don’t need to defend anything. And I refuse to give you a soapbox from which you will continue to preach your drivel. As I said go back to parading back and forth in front of abortion clinics with your wooden cross.
Lastly, where is your great solution to the collapse of the world as we know it? What is the great Neo-Con plan for the next Great Depression because that is where we were headed. Were you planning on hiring the millions of people that would have lost their jobs? Or perhaps you were going to house all of the homeless people that would have lost their homes? It must be wonderful to be sitting at home in your ivory tower. You must be too busy planning policy for the Iraqi people whom you claim to be so happy for than to answer my questions.
Christopher…
“Lastly, where is your great solution to the collapse of the world as we know it? What is the great Neo-Con plan for the next Great Depression because that is where we were headed. Were you planning on hiring the millions of people that would have lost their jobs? Or perhaps you were going to house all of the homeless people that would have lost their homes? It must be wonderful to be sitting at home in your ivory tower.”
Using YOUR standard… by continuing to debate you it is like teaching a pig to dance. It goes nowhere and it annoys the pig. I don’t need to defend anything. And I refuse to give you a soapbox from which you will continue to speak your drivel…
I’ll be happy to engage when you do instead of ducking it… Sucks living by what you espouse, huh?..
PO,
They did prove that Bush had an agenda about Iraq before 9-11.
From a former Bush Cabinet member
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/60minutes/main592330.shtml
“From the very beginning, there was a conviction, that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go,” says O’Neill, who adds that going after Saddam was topic “A” 10 days after the inauguration - eight months before Sept. 11.
“From the very first instance, it was about Iraq. It was about what we can do to change this regime,” says Suskind. “Day one, these things were laid and sealed.”
As treasury secretary, O’Neill was a permanent member of the National Security Council. He says in the book he was surprised at the meeting that questions such as “Why Saddam?” and “Why now?” were never asked.
Blah, blah, blah. Finger pointing. Blah, blah, blah. Blame. Blah, blah, blah Abortion bad. Blah, blah, blah, Neo Conservatism good. Blah, blah, blah Opposing point of view bad.
What happened did you miss the Rush Limbaugh show on the day that he offered up his solutions to the financial crisis, and heaven forbid you give us a thought of your own. Oops my bad neo-cons don’t have thoughts of their own they just repeat what they hear on the radio. C’mon man you are making this to easy.
Thanks for going easy on me tough guy! I’m not asking you to debate me. Nor do I support Lyndon LaRouche. However, a good portion of his analysis is historically/politically relevant. You’ve demonstrated your mastery of Wikipedia and the knee-jerk reaction. I was really expecting some of that trademark open-mindedness that liberals claim to have. Unfortunately, the open-mindedness is non-existent when an idea outside of the program is introduced. Hence, the insults. What I’m asking you to do is educate yourself nothing more, nothing less.
JP
Shouldn’t you be at the airport asking for donations for the “Larouche Movement”? You better get back to work lest you be in trouble. Seriously you have no credibility at all.
“Blah, blah, blah. Finger pointing. Blah, blah, blah. Blame. Blah, blah, blah Abortion bad. Blah, blah, blah, Neo Conservatism good. Blah, blah, blah Opposing point of view bad.”
Childish… and the OPPOSITE of what you said you wanted from conservatives… :rolleyes
“They did prove that Bush had an agenda about Iraq before 9-11.”
That’s NOT what you said… you said "Of course they had access to the same information as the President; he is the one who directed the CIA to acquire or should i say “produce”… I asked you to PROVE IT… looks like your Google search came up empty… and I have no credibility according to Christopher… :bs
I would have no doubt that they had a plan early regarding Iraq and regime change, since Clinton et al said the same thing… expand your Google search young Jedi… if you had read up on this, you would have already known about it…
Saddam being a “bad person and needing to go” and going to war to accomplish it are two different things…
“C’mon man you are making this to easy.”
Christopher, you haven’t even given any PROOF of what you asserted… and you’re saying I’m making it too easy… :rolleyes
That’s all for you for now… I’ll be happy to engage when you do… if you don’t have the courage to defend what you say or take a position, you are irrelevant to the conversation… :bs Like I said, sucks living by what you espouse… :banghead