where is this guy from?


I’m sorry man but you sound like a complete nut job at this point. If it is so horrible for you here in this great country you are welcome to hit the road. Perhaps you have forgotten the greatest thing about the country is the freedom that we all have to make choices. Where you lost me was when you tried to bring abortion into this discussion. You talk about defending freedom but it sounds like you would be more than happy to tell people how to live their lives. What scares me more than liberals or conservatives is people like you out there spreading a message of hate masquerading as patriotism. Seriously man all of that hate inside you will eventually eat you up.

Christopher W, once again a voice of reason. Whew. I was running out of hope.

They, They, They! It is this hard-line categorizing of people that I am upset about! No, all Liberals DO not want the same thing that I want. It’s a diverse group. I am with the party (that’s the Democratic Party, not the non-existent “Socialist Party” by the way) on most but not all issues. For example, I would vote for school vouchers that could be used for religious or other schools. I like parents to have a choice and control. It is simple-minded to paint everyone with the same brush.

Pos. Outlook,
I was listening to HATE RADIO because that was all that could be picked up on my car radio, and I didn’t want to fall asleep. There are some powerful radio senders spewing that stuff out. I was driving through “the Big Empty” where cell phones don’t work at all, and there are darn few cars on the road. If I could have spun in some sweet liberal talk on that dial, I would have been humming with happiness.

I was commenting on the disrespectful and divisive terms for the president that the HATE RADIO hosts used, (and also some posters on this site). Of course it is fine to say “Obama”, “Bush”, or whatever. That’s not disrespectful, hello…

phlegmaticjay (so mis-named),
You are starting to need a rabies shot.

You called Pres. Obama an admitted Marxist who associates with terrorists. What, indeed, are you smoking? That is very paranoid and you are on the fringe, man.

Yep, I’m a liberal, but I DON’T want to wipe out all conservatives! I just want the civil discourse and debate that this democracy is supposed to foster. This is not WAR. These are political and philosophical differences.

Then you bring up abortion. It has always been puzzling to me as to why the Republican (“Keep Government Off Our Backs”) Party wants to meddle in the extremely personal discourse between a woman and her doctor. Why ANYONE (especially a bunch of old white men) feels it is their right to tell a woman what to do with her own body? Why Conservatives want to regulate the most intimate and personal things (love, marriage, babies) that exist.

The woman is a non-participant in all this “Right To Live” drama. She may be poor, suicidal, encumbered with an excess of other under-nourished children, can’t work when pregnant, mentally unable to give up a full-term infant, HAVE a million reasons as to why she can not proceed with an unwanted, unplanned pregnancy. She has every right to have an unviable bunch of cells removed before it takes up her entire life and sucks up her soul.

This is an issue where men should just butt out. I would be happy to abdicate this decision (first term only, okay) to all women. Let them have the vote on this. Can you imagine the uproar if MEN had someone tell them what to do with their own personal bodies?

Conservatives are so dang fired up about losing future babies, but I don’t hear of any Conservative push to take care of the BABIES ALREADY HERE. The child abuse welfare agencies are inundated with horrible cases of abuse and neglect. They operate on minimal funding. This state has a shortage of foster parents (come on, Conservatives) and there ARE HUNDREDS OF CHILDREN AVAILABLE FOR ADOPTION AND NO ONE WANTS THEM! They “age” out of the State Protective Services Case files without EVER having had a caring adult love them. That is the saddest thing.

Conservative “Pro-Life” rants appear well-meaning but they don’t make sense. Let’s deal with the children already here. Let’s not add more UNWANTED children to be abused, neglected and under-loved.


Definition of a liberal=a person who is so open minded,their brains fell out.Thats pretty much all I can say about majority of libs right now.Damn I sure am glad to live in the south at this time in america.I try to read all sides of views,but man some are really of the map.My main reason for starting this was to ask,what does this president have to do before his followers ask him whats his agenda.Was’nt the 1st order of business to fix the economy,so why did he announce the closing of gitmo his 1st order?Why in the hell would our president bow to any king?Why would his first public interview be with a muslim news station in mid east? We can debate,blame,whatever all day long we won’t change one anothers minds.All I want answered is when are you gonna realize you’ve been terribley misled,and find out who this person really is?He was muslim till 21yrs old when converting by rev wright(if you consider that a rev.)Who his wife said he interviewed preachers for a year,and we seen who his winner was.So I ask you again DO YOU REALLY KNOW YOUR PRESIDENT?

To furnished owner, good post, and as a conservative ill just say where I stand.

I am pro-choice on everything, AS LONG AS, you dont interfere with anybody elses right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happyness. Government has no right to interfere with the relationship between the doctor and a woman, until they cross the line of interfering with somebody elses basic rights (life, with abortion). Abortion is interfering with somebodys basic right to life, therefor, should be against the law…even though an advocate for non-government intervention…

I dont support an abundance of welfare programs due to the facts that it must come from taking from those who earn money, which is basically a form of theft, taking from one and giving to another.

I dont even support public schools (this is supposed to be a states issue, not a FED) for everybody. I believe any family that is under the poverty level should get free schooling (because it isnt right to deny a kid an education because of their income at this age, and we must have a intelligent society).

But like… my family, who earns about 120K a year all together, why should we get almost free(subsidized) education when we could afford to pay it on our own?Vice Versa, there is no need for my parents to be paying for other kids (non poverty kids excluded), their whole life, after I move out of the house. My uncle has been paying for his local school tax for 30 years, and he doesnt even have any kids. This is wrong IMO.

Drugs, should be legal, IMO. Government has no right to tell me I CAN or CANNOT smoke some weed. If I am old enough to get shot at and die for my country, I cant smoke some freakin’ weed or drink a beer? Gimme a break. (not sure how many agree or disagree with this or not). Hereoin, Cocain, Pot, Meth, yadda yadda yadda, included, as long as you dont interfere with somebody elses right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happyness.

As far as gay marriage, it should be legal. Its not hurting ANYBODY… Life Liberty Pursuit of Happyness. It used to be where government had NO say so in marriage, it was all through the church. But thanks to bigger government, they got their hands on this institution.


“I was commenting on the disrespectful and divisive terms for the president that the HATE RADIO hosts used, (and also some posters on this site). Of course it is fine to say “Obama”, “Bush”, or whatever. That’s not disrespectful, hello…”

Problem is, that’s NOT what you said. You said - “I plead for civility and honoring the title of president (i.e. - respect), the top elected official of all the people. Can’t you ALL just say President Obama?”

Then, when you want for everyone else to do was applied to you, you modified it…

If it is “fine to say Obama…” - then what was your point?.. That it’s NOT fine for “hate” radio to call him simply Obama, or that it’s OK for you to? :banghead

A challenge…

Furnishedowner - “Then you bring up abortion. It has always been puzzling to me as to why the Republican (“Keep Government Off Our Backs”) Party wants to meddle in the extremely personal discourse between a woman and her doctor.”

My answer to that is that it is the governments FIRST responsibility is to LIFE, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness… interesting order they chose for the words…

“We cannot diminish the value of one category of human life–the unborn–without diminishing the value of all human life.”–Ronald Reagan

“The chief purpose of government is to protect life. Abandon that and you have abandoned all.” - Thomas Jefferson

From the moment of conception, that LIFE is a separate being… different DNA from the start, characteristics, you know the things that actually MAKE us individuals. The “fetus” is just in a different stage of growth… babies continue to grow throughout their lives in different stages of development in their natural environments…

Noone ever says - “I’m expecting a fetus” - it is an incarnate recognition of what it is…

My question for you Furnishedowner is that you are OK with regulating abortion to the first trimester only, what the difference between the first and second and then the third? Consider that by the end of the first trimester, the heart is beating, facial features have formed, the baby , oops “fetus” is moving, etc… Take a look at this site…


You see pics, as well as 3D ultrasound… and here’s the Mayo Clinics website on the development during the first trimester…


Now, my question to you is, why do you feel it is OK to END this LIFE? If it is not LIFE, what are you ending? If it is LIFE, are your supporting that there are different classes afforded different rights? If not, what give’s ANYONE the right to end this LIFE?

“Why ANYONE (especially a bunch of old white men) feels it is their right to tell a woman what to do with her own body?”

They do it all the time… Including not only men who are not white, but WOMAN also… BTW, the African American population are both overwhelmingly Pro-life AND Pro-marriage… That said, it is illegal to prostitute your own body out, it is illegal for you to ingest use, or distribute drugs, you are not allowed to cause harm to yourself without being restrained, need I go on…

My personal opinion is that when you take on the responsibility of having sex, which leads to procreation, you take on the risk of having to carry a baby to term… The BABY is the innocent party…

“Why Conservatives want to regulate the most intimate and personal things (love, marriage, babies) that exist.”

No, Furnishedowner, it’s actually YOU who wants to the government to REGULATE marriage, by having the GOVERNMENT REGULATE the CHANGING and disrespect of marriage/religion to include civil unions, DESPITE the citizens TELLING THEIR GOVERNMENT that they DO NOT want this done (even in the liberal homosexual bastion of California)… My question is, what’s wrong with Civil Unions?..

The government doesn’t regulate love… and you’ve already said that YOU want the government to regulate babies during all three trimesters (i.e. - regulation to let an abortion happen during the first trimester, and regulation to NOT let is happen in the second and third)… You, as a liberal, ALSO want to take away the woman’s choice during the second and third trimester…

Reason is taking hold… WELCOME ABOARD, you’re 2/3 the way there! :beer

Far right is as dangerous as far left is.So why am supposed to forget about senator obama with the most liberal views & voting record in govt(this was exposed by fellow democrates).His cloudy past that always gets avoided is my main concern.Who sits in church listening to pure hate like that?Rev wright is a proud pusher of black theology,this stuff is real deal “hate”,you all should do a little reading into this stuff.It will really make you concerned to say the least.Michelle obama was full force in this stuff too,one of her thesis in college blamed white people of european origin(which is 99% of whites) for the stagnation of blacks.So there’s alot more than the speeches(which they have a team research & write for the teleprompter)that people should’ve checked into to see what was in store for us.Please take the time to look at the props behind the curtain instead of just watching the well edited(except for joe biden)circus show.

“Why ANYONE (especially a bunch of old white men) feels it is their right to tell a woman what to do with her own body?” -

One other thought… since you are saying it is SOLELY the woman’s right to make the decision to keep the baby. are you also saying that if she CHOOSES to keep the baby, then she is SOLELY responsible for it? Or are you saying that the “old white men” should REGULATE that the other party, the MAN, who was provided NO INPUT (i.e. - given no CHOICE) should STILL be held financially liable thereby telling HIM what to do with HIS body (i.e. - work more, participate, care, etc.)?

If so, how do you provide CHOICE for the woman but NOT the man? Where’s the consistency? :rolleyes

To my recollection, I haven’t heard the tired “old white men” argument in at least five years…

Yes, looks like your thread did get hijacked. Sign on, and you takes your chances.
No, we really DON’T know our president yet. But so far, so good. I am liking his decisions.
You seem to have some xenophobic views. Obama has to have a wider world view due to his upbringing. I am following his line of thinking just fine. He appears comfortable with other religions and peoples. I am wondering, have you always lived only in the South?

Nice thoughtful post. Sounds like you are making up your own mind on the individual issues. You are actually thinking, rather than just repeating what some blow-hard is spouting. I am with you on the Gay Marriage or Civil Union issue–government, butt out! On pot smoking, well, maybe. I’d like to learn more about Holland’s experience. On meth and cocaine, definitely HELL NO! Those drugs do physical damage and turn people into monsters, thieves and child abusers. I have seen that first-hand.

Pos. Outlook,
You misunderstood my post. I said it was disrespectful to continually use other terms–i.e. “The Anointed One”, etc. --instead of the man’s name, or just Pres. Obama.

Re abortion, no surprise, lots of disagreement, just like there is nationwide. What is interesting is that when I was younger I too felt that there should not be abortion. But life’s experiences have modified that and now I am on the side of the woman. Always. She has a right to not have her entire life hijacked. She has a right to a first trimester abortion. She has the right to be able to care for the children she already has. She has the right to a D &C, or “morning after” pill. And no, I am not talking about a 2nd or 3rd semester abortion. That is why there ARE medico-legal guidelines.

If men were able to get pregnant, many more would be able to understand the huge impact an unwanted pregnancy has:

Doctor: “Yes, Bubba, you now have to quit smoking and NO MORE BEER FOR THE NEXT 8 MONTHS!”

Bubba: “But I don’t WANT to change my life! What about my JOB? I can’t afford this! This is not fair!”

Doctor: “Since men can now get pregnant you will have to adjust. You may notice that you have to pee every 4 minutes. Don’t worry, that is normal. So is the heartburn and shortness of breath. Soon you will not be able to see your feet when you walk, so be careful. When you don’t fit behind the steering wheel, have someone else drive you. You may need to cut back your job hours.”

Bubba: “But, but, my job is real important to me! Wait, is it going to hurt? How can I get out of this?”

Doctor: “You will have to go through labor, a “10” on the pain scale. That’s the only way.”

Bubba: “But I don’t WANT any brats, I don’t even like them!”

Doctor: “You should have though of abstinence before. It’s a little late for that.”



Did you even visit the other sites on development before posting?

You say you are on the side of the woman “always” on this issue… and this is just absolutely NOT true… you just like to “think” you are… you’re apparent change from when you were younger was to modify your view so that you are only on the side of the woman in the first trimester ONLY… If you are for the “woman ALWAYS”, you would be supporting her “right” to END her pregnancy up until birth… But you don’t, you don’t support 2nd and 3rd trimesters, ONLY the 1st… Why the distinction? If you checked out those development sites, it would be harder further to justify it in the first trimester, that is, if you wanted to have “independent” thought on the issue and not follow the blowhards in the pro-abortion crowd…

I don’t necessarily think this thread is hijacked, either… Obama is VERY Pro-Abortion…

As far as losing your job, etc… My wife, a nurse, currently dealing directly with pregnant woman in emergency care likes to remind her patients, that pregnancy is not a illness or disease and that they can still work (except for certain circumstances). She did so until a week before delivery…

The whole narrative on men being pregnant is an interesting distraction, but doesn’t address anything posted, including CHOICE for the men… but one thought on it… you act like woman are the only one dealing with life changes and issues during pregnancy… very one-sided…

“You may notice that you have to pee every 4 minutes. Don’t worry, that is normal. So is the heartburn and shortness of breath. Soon you will not be able to see your feet when you walk, so be careful. When you don’t fit behind the steering wheel, have someone else drive you.”

Men have plenty of experience with this… you are describing a lot of men’s mid-life experience… except they won’t give up the steering wheel and the beer belly doesn’t usually go away nine months later… :biggrin

Try re-reading my post on abortion and let’s hear what you really think on this abortion and “choice” issue and this time let’s hear a real answer instead of trying to distract us with pregnant men… :rolleyes

“You misunderstood my post. I said it was disrespectful to continually use other terms–i.e. “The Anointed One”, etc…”

  • No, that’s not the case and I think it was plainly clear what you wanted, from your ORIGINAL post - “I plead for civility and honoring the title of president (i.e. - respect), the top elected official of all the people. Can’t you ALL just say President Obama?”…

It was when you got called on what you wanted everyone ELSE to do, DESPITE you doing the opposite, is when the dance began… Just re-read your own post on this… You were not exhorting “hate” radio to do this, but “you ALL” to do this and your mention of “hate” radio was paragraph’s before your final comment in the post to “plead for civility and honoring” presidents (and that final exhortation came directly after three paragraphs on Bush). You’ll also not that you were careful in that post to refer to Bush as President Bush…

So, quit the BS, it’s easier just to admit to it than drag it out… With regards to “the anointed one”, it was/is a deserved titled based on the fact that the press did exactly that WITHOUT any serious scrutiny and continues with it AFTER the election… But it’s better than some of the vitriolic stuff you heard during Bush’s term and even today from the left on previous presidents…

You will also note that the tradition of using “Mr.” instead of “President” began on the left and in the network news…

I don’t mind the hijacking,just wondering when his supporters like yourself are gonna explain the questionable ties,past he has.He won because ,once again,he lied & claimed to be open to new ideas and moderate.This is why he supporters are holding up signs @ tea parties.Yes I have always lived in the south,so go ahead & give me the off the shelf liberal treatment,that I’m just a dumb redneck.Atleast I can tell you my beliefs anytime/anywhere without a teleprompter,this is why liberals are so confused.You all make decisions in packs,why? I lived in mississippi after katrina,and lost all we had,let me tell you my friend if that was any reflection of big govt flying in to save the day,you can keep it.The people pulled together with churches from all over to rebuild,while the govt screwed it all up giving renters,sect 8,anyone but homeowners $30-$50k like candy.I’m assuming you run your own operation,so in that will you agree that you can have help,but everyone getting in the mix causes confusion.Its the same with the govt my friend,same principle.


I believe the election was won by Mr. Obama because a MAJORITY of people in this country were tired of the way things were run over the last 8 years. We were BOLD FACED lied to about weapons of mass destruction so that the previous president could declare war on Iraq just to settle a personal vendetta. The financial system was nearly destroyed. Big Oil companies made billions upon billions of dollars in profit all on the backs of the little people like us. The rich got richer and everyone else stayed the same or is worse off. So you can say what you want about the election being stolen or hijacked or whatever term you choose to use, but in reality I think the people of this country just through up their collective hands and said ENOUGH. Now whether President Obama can fix everything that is broken remains to be seen, but at least he is trying. As he has said “he is not the cause of all of the problems this country is facing, he inherited ALL of this from the previous administration”. I ask every person reading this forum to explain to me ONE positive thing that the Bush administration did for this country (other than keep it safe from another 9/11 which I gave them credit for in a previous post). Just one. We are coming out of arguably the darkest period in the history of American Presidents and it is going to take time to fix things. But all people want to do is argue and point out mistakes. I am not afraid to admit that I voted republican in the last election because I thought during these scary times that we needed someone with more political experience running the country in the aftermath of arguably the WORST president ever, and however I am also not afraid to admit that I think President Obama is doing a pretty good job. He has a lot of very smart people working for him and HOPEFULLY he can get this country back on the road to prosperity. If not then in four years we will have the opportunity to replace him. That is the beauty of freedom.

And as for his connections to terrorists and radical muslims do you really lose sleep over that at night? His connection to the “terrorist” was forever ago. You have never hung out with someone of questionable morals? You have never hung out with someone that your friends or parents disapproved of? You know we all have the ability to see both the bad AND the good in people and perhaps that is how their friendship developed. Did you lose sleep over the fact that W. lied about his Air National Guard Service? Did you lose sleep over the fact that he was an admitted alcoholic and drug user? Did you lose sleep that he ran ever business he ever touched into the ground. Probably not because that was all in the past, and people change and they grow. I’m not the same person I was 20 years ago? Heck I’m not even the same person I was 10 years ago. Are you? How would you feel if you went into a job interview and the person doing the interview would not hire you because of something you did 30 years ago? You would probably argue to your last breath that it was ridiculous to hold you responsible for something you did as a child or young adult, but isn’t that what you are doing right now?

As for the posters wanting to argue about abortion and the right to life you are just wasting your time and your breath. This argument will go until the end of time and nobody’s mind is going to be made up or changed by the things that are posted here. Instead of wasting time arguing about it here why not go out and volunteer in your community? Spend the time you will be WASTING arguing with somebody you have never met; trying to make your community a better place for EVERYONE.

If you took the time 2 read the posts here the hijacking was a reference to the oringinal post,not election.I too did’nt support war in iraq,wrong place and time,they seen there were no weapons and caught hussien,job done right?I don’t blame obama with this economy(even though he was the one campaigning on doom/gloom and it’ll be over if you elect me)he does’nt have to reinvent the wheel,regan pulled us out of the mess carter made.Yet we’re told that is a worn out way of govt,I wonder why they don’t prove it instead of just ruling it out.Cut corporate tax,cap gains,for a few months then tell me it does’nt work.By the way,the news 2day is preparing us for masive tax increases due to the massive income tax shortage.So you really believe that spending and expanding more is gonna make this better? Thank you for observing the country was safe after 9/11,so I ask you,if thats all you support why did obama change this?Muchless,make it his 1st order of business?Also I do hope we all have the "freedom"to elect who we as a majority chose since acorn received $$billions of our "stimulous"money and him moving the census group into the white house myseriously.

I agree the ACORN business is highly suspicious I find it very hard to believe that ACORN turned the election one way or the other. As I stated I think that a moajority of the country just wanted a CHANGE. Whether this is the way to go or not shall remain to be seen. As for the Reagan way I think we have seen that “voodoo economics” is not the end all be all to fix a recession. Tax cuts for the rich are not going to solve this countries problem.

I also wanted to address a comment you made ina previous posting. What happened during Katrina was ridiculous, but people in that region had more than ample warning about what was coming, but instead opf packing up and getting out of dodge MOST of the people just decided to stay put and try to ride it out, and then when things went bad everyone just lined up with their hands out and said “WHAAAAAA FEMA did not take care of us, give us money WHAAAAAAA”. I find it very interesting that when Hurricane Ike hit Houston things were bad for a few weeks and then it was business as usual. People just pulled themselves up by their boot straps and went to back to making things normal again. The same goes for the people in Fargo after the floods, or Ok. City after the tornado’s, but once again another Katrina “victim” wants to stand up and point fingers. Please give the rest of the country a break with your Katrina rhetoric. Bad things happen to good people.

Man,what the hell is wrong with your reading comprehension?I was using katrina as an example of how govt screws up when they rush in. :banghead I did’nt expect anyone to help me,I left 3days beforehand and lived 2miles from water.Nobody expected a 30ft storm surge.I never take to well to be put in the catagory you are putting me in because like yourself I’m sick of the blame,complaining on who got what out of the govt,so try not to make the mistake of thinking that was the reason I wrote on katrina.Far too many think the govt is our saviour to anything,we have to be responsible for ourselves sooner or later(hopeful soon,govt is broke because of this).

Bush lied…

“BOLD FACED lied to about weapons of mass destruction” - Christopher, this in itself is a bold-faced lie that has been propogated by the media… To make this claim, you are going to have to disbelieve not just Bush, but most of the main FOREIGN governments intelligence agencies (including France and Germany who opposed the war), the CIA, Pres. Clinton and his adminstration BEFORE Bush, the Democrats AND Republicans who were privy to the same intelligence and came to the same conclusion, IOW, most everyone… you would have to say that ALL those people lied… Remember, Clinton bombed Iraq four years earlier on WMD and inspections basis to - “We are lessening, degrading his ability to use this (WMD).” - Madelin Albright

If you read Clinton’s transcript of the speech he gave regarding HIS bombing of Iraq, it was about WMD’s (inlcuding nuclear)… So all this “Bush lied” mediaspeak is ignoring history.

http://amyproctor.squarespace.com/clinton-speech-bomb-wmd/ (I don’t know who amy proctor is, just a link of the transcript)

Why do you think they went into Iraq with full biological gear and training for the same? Hussein used them not only against other countries, but against his own people going back to the 80’s. Given that history, and the closeness of 911, history will tell whether Bush made the right decision.


I don’t consider defending the defenseless a waste of time. The only way to change people’s mind’s on these type’s of issue’s is to ENGAGE on it. Along with Freedom, comes the choice NOT to, but in Furnishedowners case, she is claiming to be “always” for the women, but her own words run contrary to that. She is only for the woman in the FIRST trimester, NOT the second or third, and this brings the obvious question… why the distinction?

Interestingly, I was the opposite of Furnishedowner when I was younger - “pro-choice”, but as I started looking more and more into it as I got older, and got more information, along with new technology opening our eyes into the womb, and DNA research, it became obvious what it was…

Besides, woman are not actually given TRUE “choice” - Another part that is completely wrong IMHO is not giving a woman/girl ALL the information BEFORE making the decision. They should be made aware of ALL the complications they will potentially be at risk to… physical, emotional, etc. and woman are deprived this basic information every day making their “choice” one they carry with them their whole lives…

Not to mention the burden the man carries that he HAD NO CHOICE in the matter…

“As for the Reagan way I think we have seen that “voodoo economics” is not the end all be all to fix a recession. Tax cuts for the rich are not going to solve this countries problem.”

It is a FACT that the tax reductions by JFK, Reagan and Bush INCREASED revenue to the federal government while reduing the tax burden on everyone, BUT the CONGRESS (democratic controlled under JFK, Reagan and for the last two years under Bush) SPENT IT… Congress is in CONTROL of the checkbook, and since the Dem’s took control of the Congress in 2006, they have spent MORE than the Repub’s did as a percentage of GDP… During the 90’s, it was the Repub’s in charge of the checkbook, and the spending was better controlled…

“ONE positive thing Bush did…” - I can give you a list… IF that’s what you really want… from a historical perspective, not a defensive one… I’m actually really surprised you asked this…

It astonishes me that we have so many intelligent people on this board that think that RAISING TAXES is the answer to our problems… If the answer is to raise taxes, why don’t we just raise them to 90% and hand it out to everyone making less than $250K? Seriously… If not, WHY not?


I don’t need a list of W.'s accomplishments… I only asked for one. It astonishes me that intelligent people on this board who voted for Bush can say anything other than “I’m sorry”.

[b]In the run-up to the war, the White House adopted a position of absolute certainty that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, basing its arguments on intelligence that was later exposed as flimsy and wrong.

“The biggest regret of all the presidency has to have been the intelligence failure in Iraq,” Bush told ABC television in an interview scheduled for broadcast last night. “I wish the intelligence had been different, I guess.” But he followed that moment of candour with an attempt to try to deflect charges that the White House misled Congress and the public to build a case for war, arguing that there had been widespread belief that Saddam had a nuclear arsenal.

“It wasn’t just people in my administration; a lot of members in Congress, prior to my arrival in Washington DC, during the debate on Iraq, a lot of leaders of nations around the world, were all looking at the same intelligence.”

He was not asked about allegations that political pressure was brought to bear on the CIA and other intelligence agencies in the run-up to the war.[/b]

Here is more interesting information…

[b]The intelligence on Iraq’s WMD was whatever the president and his cronies (including his erstwhile ally at 10 Downing Street) wanted it to be. Over seven years of UN-mandated weapons inspection activity, conducted from 1991 until 1998, had produced a well-defined (and documented) record of disarmament which, while not providing absolute verification of the disposition of every aspect of Saddam’s WMD programmes, did allow any observer interested in the facts to ascertain that Iraq was fundamentally disarmed from a qualitative perspective. This, coupled with the presence of the world’s most technologically advanced and intrusive arms control regime monitoring the totality of Iraq’s industrial infrastructure, provided a high degree of confidence that Saddam had neither retained nor reconstituted his WMD programme.

There was a gap in inspection coverage of Iraq from December 1998 until November 2002, brought on by the removal of weapons inspectors at the behest of the United States (during the administration of Bill Clinton). However, no verifiable intelligence emerged during this time to credibly suggest that Iraq had sought to reconstitute its WMD programme. Instead, the Bush administration developed arguments that spoke of a “re-examination” of the “facts” from the perspective of a “post-9/11 world”.

But the diversionary tactic of bait and switch, where the so-called global war on terror was used to justify an attack on Iraq, did not in any meaningful way alter the reality that Iraq had been disarmed. The Pentagon tried to provide glossy satellite images and hyped-up speculation about what Saddam was up to in September 2002 (and the British followed suit, publishing their since-discredited “dossier”), but by that November UN weapons inspectors were back in Iraq, and by January 2003 had discredited the entire intelligence case the Pentagon (and the British) had so clumsily cobbled together.[/b]

So you can keep using words like “Mediaspeak”, and you can keep towing the Republican line if that is what helps you sleep at night, but I wonder how you would feel if it was your child, or your brother, or sister that died in Iraq or returned from Iraq with a traumatic brain injury. Would you would be sitting here spewing this garbage trying to twist people’s words to fit your own agenda. At least when Clinton started bombing Iraq it was to defend the no-fly zone and to keep Iraqi troops from gassing their own people. So you just keep listening to Hannity and Limbaugh and telling yourself how great the Bush administration was. But in the end what you really need to ask yourself are these questions…“Am I better off now than I was 8 years ago?” and “Is this country in a better place than it was 8 years ago (9/11 not withstanding)?”.

As for raising taxes, I only advocate raising them for the super-wealthy. It is ridiculous that the super-rich on average pay less of a % than the working poor simply because they can “write-off” more. If you are making 1M or more per year then HELL YES I believe you should contribute more. Call me a socialist, call me a freaking communist I really don’t care, I believe the rich should pay more than the poor. Small business’ and the working poor have carried the burden long enough. Let freaking Exxon Mobil finally pay their share. Lord knows W. and Cheney put enough money in their pockets.

As for the abortion issue I said it is a waste of time to argue about it here on this web-site. Why not go out into your community and volunteer at a planned parenthood clinic and hand out literature or something of that nature that will make your community a better place to live for everyone.

Wow,so you investigated pretty deep into bush,what about clinton?I’m sure you are aware that the sudan govt offered bin laden to his administration on a silver platter,which prob would’ve been useful to help prevent 9/11.The point I want to make is dems&repubs have been putting on a sideshow for a long time now,in the meantime we go along with the blame game our country’s economy,honesty,freedom,slips further away.Christopher you seem smart enough to know both sides have been doing their fare share of deceiving us,right.There’s a ton of issues to debate for days,but thats what the problem is,we get so caught up that all kinds of things have been slid out the back door that will truely effect us & our future.We need more trust & honesty.I can remember obama saying "the old days in washington of blame & bikering have to stop,the people are tired"That is sooo true,too bad it was another researched teleprompter speech and disappointed several of his voters.We should’ve been highly suspecious of a leader who is telling us what and how he feels off a written speech.