What is Going On?

Matt-

Quarles is right on this one. Credibility is HUGE in this business so let’s start with the basics.

Beginners is spelled with TWO 'n’s not one! C’mon man!!! :banghead

You know what amazes me that those guys like Rockefeller and Ford that secretly run the whole world somehow forgot to make paying taxes mandatory. C’mon man, quit smoking the bad weed.

DB

The Fed is NOT a private for profit institution. It is an independent agency within the federal government comprised of the board of governors in Washington DC and the 12 regional reserve banks. The regional banks do issue stock which is owned by their member banks as part of the requirement to be a member of the federal reserve system.

I’m trying to understand this issue, but am not sure this is right. My understanding is that the Federal Reserve is a Corporation that is owned by member banks, who are in turn private, for- profit corporations. Is that the truth, or not?

As I understand it, every time our central bank (federal reserve) was established, it was pushed by very wealthy bankers, because they made HUGE amounts of money as the result. The film that I posted the links to, claim that the Government put up the money to establish the central bank. The film alleges that the big money bankers (banks) never put in their share. At any rate, the central bank gets to print money out of thin air, backed by the ability to tax the US Taxpayer as collateral. The banks are then allowed to lend this out at a rate of 7-10 dollars for every dollar they have on reserve (actually nothing).

If you or I had $1,000,000 to lend out, we might get 7% interest meaning that our interest income would be $70,000 per year. Banks, on the other hand, can loan out $7,000,000 on the same $1,000,000, meaning their interest would by $490,000. That’s fractional banking.

Since the FED also has the ability to control interest rates, they can manipulate the economy to cause booms and busts. That is unquestionably true as the FED certainly cause the latest real estate boom and bust.

Please note, I do not subscribe to conspiracy theories. Moreover, this is CERTAINLY not a conspiracy (at least involving illegal acts). All of this is completely legal as it was sanctioned by the congress, the last time being in 1913, when our most recent central bank (Federal Reserve)was once again established.

Again, I’m not asserting anything. I’m trying to understand what the reality is. Was the Federal Reserve (central bank) system set up by extremely rich bankers through the congress? Almost certainly. Are a few individuals getting increasingly rich via their control of the Federal Reserve and thus our economy? I don’t know, but would like to understand this issue. Is the Federal Reserve system fleecing the American People out of Trillions of Dollars because the Federal Reserve is charging our own government interest on money they printed for free? I don’t know, but would like to.

Can anyone shed any light on this issue (backed up by documented facts). I’d like to know more.

Mike

Mike,

PaulBroni posted this link earlier this year…in a post I was asking about banks’ lending ratios:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/reservereq.htm

Same general area that 71tr hyperlinked to yesterday…but a little more specific.

I know this doesn’t give “answers” …just documentation on lending ratios, etc.

This article talks about Fed Board Members increasing accumulation of wealth relative to past decades:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/12/news/economy/fed_governors/index.htm

Another one…and then an excerpt from it:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/02/news/economy/fed_bush_picks/index.htm?postversion=2006030306

The other recent Fed pick was White House economic staffer Kevin Warsh. He was criticized outside of Congress for a thin resume -- he is only 35, making him the youngest Fed governor in history, and has neither a Ph.D. nor an economics degree.

He is also the son-in-law of Ronald Lauder, a major Republican contributor and a member of the family that controls Estee Lauder Cos (Research).

Spent 8 years in DC…lotta money there…there’s busines and then there’s POLITICS!

To the victor, come the spoils.

Good post Mike…I’m a printer by trade…well, used to be…funny thing, that paper money.

As Trump says…believe in your gut feelings…they’re usually right. Did you get that Kick Ass book from the library yet?..:slight_smile:

-Mike

Mike, you ask worthy questions and I certainly don’t take you for a conspiracy theorist. Sure the Fed is controlled/influenced by wealthy and powerful individuals but that is simply how government operates. Remember the Fed is made up of numerous parts but the primary two pieces are the board of governers (decision makers) in DC and the 12 regional banks which are on the operational end of the spectrum. The Fed in DC is not a corporation, it is a government sponsored enterprise or agency charged with managing monetary policy and of course they do print money as part of this process.

The regional banks on the other hand are structured as corporations with stock that is SOLD to the member banks. Ownership of this stock is not like stock you or I might own, it is like owning a membership interest so that you can be part of the system. The member banks cannot trade, sell or otherwise encumber the fed stock that they own. It simply sits on their books as an asset and the Fed pays them a dividend on the stock.

The Fed does of course print money but that is part of the government business of keeping the economy in motion. They don’t just print money and give it to their rich banker friends for free. They replace money coming out of circulation and they lend the money to member banks. They also use the money to execute monetary policy by either purchasing treasury securities (thus pumping money into the economy for stimulation) or selling treasury securities they own into the market to shrink the money supply and dampen economic activity.

Banks (private) are naturally highly leveraged companies keeping only say 3-8% capital for every dollar they loan out. But remember they don’t loan money out of thin air, they loan out the deposits they take from customers they don’t sit around and wait for their rich friends at the fed to ship them cash to make loans. They issue CD’s, checking accounts, savings accounts etc. and pay say 4% on this money then they turn around and lend out 97% (after reserves) of this money at say 7%. You might think it a simple and very profitable business but you have to take into account operating expenses and other overhead. Most banks have a net margin of only a few hundred basis points then take out the overhead (remember your 50% rule) and you are left with say 1% net profit.

It’s a pretty thin business model and prone to failures in difficult economic conditions. The Fed on the other hand is a self-funding enterprise. They earn interest on the treasuries that they own, they generate fee income by providing services to their member banks and making loans to these banks. While Fed decisions are influenced by powerful influential people whom certainly are looking out for their own interests the organization provides a necessary service to the economy.

OK. Let’s all exercise are rights as Americans and STOP paying taxes on our personal income. WOW, that would be GREAT!!! Nevermind the schools will fall down around our kids because there won’t be money to repair them. Nevermind the millions of elderly that will be on the street in a few short years thanks to Social Security drying up. Nevermind all of the museums and national parks and zoos, etc, etc that would close due to lack of funding. Let’s all just stop paying taxes. Wouldn’t life be GRAND?!? :bs

Wow, I am Bushed (Pun intended) from reading these post!

As Rodney King Once Said:[

b]Can’t we all just get along?[/b] :biggrin

Isn’t it the libertarians who believe that schools, highways, and defense are the only items a government should help with?

Those libertarians are on the right track. I suggest that we start cleaning house by getting rid of all the entitlements!

Mike

I second the motion.

Tg

Wow, wild thread… :evil

Quote from Foreclosure Negotiator:
Did you know it is illegal for the gov to tax us on our personal wages? I have not paid income tax on my personal wages for about 5 years now. There is simply no law that requires American citizens to pay taxes on their personal income made.

If it were really that plain and simple, don’t you think a few million lawyers would have all the legal arguments down and be defending a few more million people so that nobody would be paying taxes?..You need to get real…

I’m another that is not going to stop paying taxes but I will say something in support of both sides of the argument.

It has been stated that schools would fall down around our children. Well, schools are paid for by Local Property taxes. Roads are paid for by the 42 cent per gallon gas tax. Corporate Income taxes fund the military. Every government service has its source of money,
The income tax funds the interest on the money borrowed from the federal reserve. Reagan’s Gray’s Commission solidly proved that all of the income tax was used for this purpose. Why the government would want to borrow money that it could print itself and back by gold is beyond me, but… that said. Whether it is legal or not, I will continue to pay my income taxes. I don’t want to go to jail. The Supreme Court having tried this case in favor of individuals up until around 1920, now refuses to hear the case anymore. Quoting the Supreme Court rulings in lower courts will not help you either. They won’t hear it. You will be held in contempt And be thrown in jail. I’m sure there are people who have made their case and won, but the mass populous just doesn’t have the resources for this kind of battle. It has been said that you can file specific paper work and renounce your membership in society and that will get you out of taxation, but it will also get you zero perks from the system as well. Personally, I like having the ability to buy houses, get a library card, get a bank account.

So, for both sides
Sure, if you go back far enough, you can show that the 16th amendment was never ratified (those interested in this argument can read “The Law That Never Was” by William J. Benson) and hence is unlawful because it isn’t really a law. I may lean towards semantics on this one because I don’t want to go to jail.

As for the Federal Reserve Act: it was passed by congress when most of the congressmen were away on christmas vacation. Alas, it may have been planned that way, but ‘it passed’.
Write your congressmen and see if they respond to requests to repeal it. It would take nothing less than a massive uprising to change things now.

Who’s got the time? I’ve gotta feed my family just like everyone else.

Well, maybe I could attend a march but I’d have to put back some savings first.
Nice debate, guys.

P

Property taxes are not unconstitutional. Property taxation is probably the only logical and sensible way to collect and spend taxes. Income tax on the other hand, contributes to the indentured servitude of our descendants. Last time I checked, indentured servitude (slavery) is unconstitutional.

I’m ok with paying property taxes. By the way, I too have not paid federal income tax for quite a few years. I’ve done it the good ole’ American, and legal, way - by incorporating.

Oh and another thing. The Federal Reserve is NOT a government agency. It is a privately held corporation whose only oversight is the occasional congressional hearing with the Chairman.

If you want to really get educated about The Fed, read, “Web of Debt” by Ellen Hodgson Brown.

I thought this thread could use this quote:

“I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.”

  • by Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence, 1914

What about Internal Revenue Code 26 USC section 1?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00000001----000-.html

Has this been determined to be unconstitutional?

This stuff has been going on since at least WWI. There is a good book that talks about it: None Dare Call it Conspiracy You can get the whole thing online: http://reactor-core.org/none-dare.html Try not to get too hooked on conspiracy theories… or you’ll end up just like me!! :shocked :help :bobble

Dean

A little clarification may be in order.

The Federal Reserve System was created by an act of Congress in 1913 to serve as the banker for the federal government as an independent agency of the government

The Federal Reserve System has a seven member Board of Governors to oversee the Federal Reserve System. The members of the board are appointed by the President of the United States and confirmed by the Senate to serve 14 year terms. The Chairman of the Board of Governors routinely reports to Congress on the nation’s monetary policy.

The Federal Reserve System is composed of 12 regional Federal Reserve districts throughout the United States with a Federal Reserve Bank located in each district. The Federal Reserve System supports itself with the income from operations. After deducting operating expenses, any net income is added to the general treasury of the US.

National banks chartered by the federal government are, by law, members of the Federal Reserve System. Each member bank is required to subscribe to stock in tis regional Federal Reserve Bank, but the stock is not publicly traded stock. Reserve Bank stock can not be sold, traded or pledged as collateral for loans. Member banks earn a 6% annual dividend on their Federal Reserve stock.

Only in this sense does the Federal Reserve appear to be a privately held corporation, but it is really an agency of the federal government that issues privately held stock.

.

The US Government is a 20-25% shareholder in the Federal Reserve banks. This does not make the Fed or any of its districts a governement agency. A government agency is funded with tax payer dollars and therefore subject to the oversight of our elected representatives. This is not true of the Fed. It is a super GSE, like Fannie and Freddie, but still a 100% privately held and operated corporation.

The charter of Fed banks allows the fed to take 25% of shares from the US government, then turn around and sell the additonal 75% with “printed money” to self-capitalize its operations. The only real money comes from the pledge of 25% of capital from taxpayers. The catch is that 25% is not a majority stake which would allow for governemental oversight.

Of you can just check the United States 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. John L. Lewis vs. United States of America, April 19, 1982:
"The United States District Court for the Central District of California, David W. Williams, J., dismissed holding that the federal reserve bank was not a federal agency within meaning of Act and that the court therefore lacked subject-matter jurisdiction. Appeal was taken. The Court of Appeals, Poole, Circuit Judge, held that federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations.

Options! Sounds like we got options…

Option 1…continue to pay taxes…live free…or at least semi-free…working on making ourselves rich and the government too…

Option 2…stop paying taxes…live free…at least for a little while…work today for making yourself rich…and pray that it doesn’t all end up making the goverment rich tomorrow… :slight_smile:

Option 3…move to a country where its clearly define that you don’t have to pay taxes…maybe a neutral country where they don’t need a military…say Sweden…cons-shoes…wood can’t be that comfortable on your feet, unless I’m mixing up my neutral countries…pros-women, blond and tall…and who care about making money… :slight_smile:

I like option 3 but I don’t think my wife will go for it!

At 5’9" 165 lbs, option 2 will not work for me if the government wants to find me a home…and a room mate!

So it seems it will be option 1…that’'s not so bad…be happy and in denial…so nothing changes… :slight_smile: