Well, after a nice weekend of taking the kids to an amusement/water park, seeing family, and boating on a lake - we returned home and checked our mail. One of our tenants sent us two receipts for sod and paint (no note, but obviously she’s wanting money). This is our Section 8 “trailer park diva.” No it’s not a trailer in a park - rather it’s a nice little two bedroom house in a quiet neighborhood, but she’s got the govt footing her bills yet she alway seems to have her hair and nails done. Anyway… This particular house had a sandy front yard with very little grass. I told her when we took over the place we would like to get grass growing in the front yard sometime. This was in December so there wasn’t anything we could do about it then and we were going to do this on OUR time frame - NOT hers. She called a couple months ago and asked if she could paint the front porch. I said that was fine (I normally don’t let tenants do ANY work on their own, but it was going to be awhile before her front porch made it high enough on my list of things to give a crap about that I decided to let her do it). A couple months ago, I also contracted a guy to go over with a Bobcat and dump truck to cut down the sand, haul in dirt, and plant grass seed. He did all that and put some pine straw on top of the dirt to hold the moisture in for the grass seed. After about a week, I found our tenant had raked all the straw off the dirt and nothing was really growing. I went back over one day with some more seed to work up the topsoil and plant more seed. She had been out that morning and came back while I was working. She was with someone (supposedly her ex-husband) who said he was going to try to get some sod for the yard and lay it down. Her family was supposedly coming in for Memorial Day weekend and she wanted the place to look nice. She even told my wife she was doing these things “out of the kindness of her heart so she would have a nice place to live.” Well tonight we were obviously pretty pissed that she had the gall to send us the receipts and expect payment. So before anyone says I should be grateful for someone improving our property and not charging labor (although a bill for that may come any time), let me just explain a couple things. She’s made a few comments lately about how we’re not around much (this place isn’t our only one to worry about and other issues are more important than hers being freshly painted on HER schedule) and things of that nature. When we met her in Dec. for the lease signing, we asked if there were any repairs needed on the house. We were told no and she claimed she was not the type of tenant to bother us (even though she calls more than any of our other tenants). We also asked if she had smoke detectors, CO detectors, and fire extinguishers. So we got those right away just like we do on all our units. The very next week she calls and complains that her heat hasn’t worked for months (hmm. That should’ve been included in “are there any repairs needed”). So we get that done (about $800). Then there’s the tree roots messing with the sewer drain line that got fixed the day after she called ($200). So now we also spent another $700 to fix the front yard, but the grass didn’t grow on HER schedule so now we get billed for $20 for paint and $370 for sod. I’m not really in the mood for throwing nearly $400 her way for things she claimed she was doing out of the kindness of her heart. At no time did we say she would be reimbursed for any of this. We choose how we’re spending our money on repairs - not our tenants.
So here’s our options as I see them.
Roll over and re-imburse her for the bills she sent - setting a bad precedent for the future that she can do whatever she wants and we’ll pay for it.
Send her a 30 day notice of lease termination. This would probably result in the house getting tore up.
Inform Section 8 of the situation and tell them we’re not paying the bills.
Write her a letter stating we acknowledge the improvements were made, but stating we’re not paying this right now.
If this place hadn’t cost for all these other things, I might be more inclined to pay this and re-iterate she can’t contract her own repairs and expect re-imbursement. As it is, I’m not putting any unnecessary money into this place for awhile until the rent helps to work off these other expenses.
I’m pretty pissed right now so I’m gonna sleep on it before I write a really nasty letter, but I wanted to see what everyone thinks about this. I’m leaning toward not paying anything now, but leaving the possibility of taking care of this later. I absolutely will not pay a dime for any labor claims and I will make sure she understands this isn’t going to happen again. I guess I can kinda see doing the sod cost because I was probably going to have to do that anyway since the grass wasn’t growing, but I do things with our properties when I want - not in preps for a tenant’s family visit.
Sorry for the long post - just venting a bit.
This issue is about who is going to run your rental - you or the tenant! Right now, the tenant thinks that she is running the property and unless you set her straight, she’s right!!!
You made the first mistake when you allowed the tenant to paint the porch. What if she had fallen and been seriously injured? Did you pay worker’s comp and take out Form 941 taxes? Furthermore, even if you were going to allow the tenant to paint, you certainly should have told her that you were NOT going to pay her for her time or pay for any materials (assuming that was your intention).
It seems to me that the grass is another issue completely. You had the sand removed; hauled in dirt; seeded the area; and had it strawed. THE TENANT REMOVED THE STRAW! No wonder the grass didn’t grow. Did the tenant water the grass? It appears to me that the tenant actually killed any chance the grass had to grow. Furthermore, when the tenant said that they were going to put down sod, you should have said very clearly that you were not going to pay for the sod or any labor.
I think some of the blame here is yours because you didn’t clearly communicate to the tenant that you were not going to pay for labor or materials. Whatever you decide to do about the paint and sod, I would make it CRYSTAL CLEAR to the tenant (IN WRITING) that she is NOT to do any additional work or make any future improvements without your WRITTEN permission. I would also include that in your lease (it may already be in there).
Most people don’t care to make any improvements and I absolutely won’t let anyone “improve” something once I’ve done the work on it. She thinks she’s pulling a fast one here by saving and sending these receipts. And yes, she’s definitely getting a letter setting her straight. I don’t know if she’s pulled this crap with anyone else before, but I’m not going to have her running over me. That’s why I said I’m also considering just stiffing her for the whole thing. I called before about sod prices because I thought that’s where it might end up and I found it cheaper than the prices she sent me. I’m still thinking on this issue. I’ll let everyone know how it turns out.
Tenants always think the landlord is going to pay when they offer to do any work. Therefore, you MUST tell them very clearly that you aren’t going to pay at the time when they first offer.
I don’t allow my tenants to do any work on the rentals. It saves a lot of trouble. It prevents liability issues, and it saves me from going over and re-doing what they did, because they did it wrong.
I would say that if she asked if she could paint the deck, and you said ‘yes’ that you might owe her for the paint, unless you told her that you would not pay for it when she got permission to paint.
When her live-in boyfriend said he could get sod, and you said OK, did you tell him that you wouldn’t pay for it?
Think very carefully about exactly what was said. I would probbaly oay her, with a written notice that she was to not do any more work on the property, and that the landlord would not pay for any repairs that she does in the future.
All tenants are as big a PITA as the landlord will allow. Just expect it. You must be very clear about what you expect when you speak to them, and then put it in writing, because they have filters on their ears that only allow in things that they want to hear.
There was no mention of her billing us for either of these things. She even told my wife about doing it out of the kindness of her heart. Apparently that kindness gave way to dollar signs. I didn’t explicitly state we would not pay for these things, but we didn’t give any hint that she’d be re-imbursed either.
I painted the exterior trim on a house I rented in college. I did it because I wanted the place to look better and knew if I spent about $40 it would make a difference. I knew not to expect anything in return. I was doing it at my own risk and out of my own pocket.
You’re in a tough spot. Maybe you just gotta pay for the sod since you weren’t communicating clearly enough. Then put it in writing: “NO more improvements! I can’t afford it!” Just what Tatertot wrote.
Some tenants are just difficult. You’ll have to rein her in. The tail is trying to wag the dog.
OK. So after a few days of stewing about this and thinking about all the angles, here’s what we decided to do. The following letter was sent to set the tenant straight:
Earlier this week, we received two receipts in an envelope from you. One was for paint. The other was for sod. You were given permission to paint your porch. We also paid a good amount of money to remove sand, haul in dirt, and seed the front yard. The pine straw was put down to hold in the moisture to help the grass grow. After only a few days of this work being done, you raked all the straw off the lawn which made it nearly impossible for any grass to grow. As I tried to re-seed the lawn, your ex-husband told me he was going to put down sod. There was never any agreement for our company to pay you for any of this. In fact, you told (my wife) you were doing this “out of the kindness of your heart because you wanted a nice place to live.”
Our company repairs necessary items as needed and other cosmetic issues as we see fit. It is very apparent that you think you needed the paint and grass done on your schedule because you had family coming to town for Memorial Day weekend. Furthermore, I also discovered you had more expensive St. Augustine sod put down rather than Bermuda grass.
This situation is going to be handled as follows:
Our company is only reimbursing you for $135 per pallet (which is the price for Bermuda Grass Sod which we would have put down).
Our company will reimburse you for the cost of the paint only.
Our company accepts no liability and no claims shall be made for labor performed.
You will make no further alterations to the property and our company will not reimburse you for any other items unless said items are agreed upon by our company in writing. We appreciate the fact that you care for the property, but we cannot have residents making alterations at their own will and billing our company for the alterations.
End of letter.
I had a wide range of thoughts about this situation. I could have absolutely refused to pay for anything or simply given her proper notice of termination of her M2M lease. Property damage and vacancy never helps any LL. So my goal here was to give some concession to what was done, but still let her know who is in the driver’s seat. She ended up eating about $80 for the sod because I’m not paying for “deluxe grass” for a rental property. The house looks good and it’s work I didn’t have to do, but I’m not doing this again. I was reluctant to allow any of this in the first place and won’t do it again. In the end she got most of her money back and at least the property is still occupied and not tore up.
I think that was a very good solution to this issue! You keep a tenant that cares about the property and the tenant should feel like you’re working with them. You’ve also let them know very clearly that any future improvements they make must be approved by you in writing. I don’t think that you could have done better than that!
This is sort of a tangent, but it deals with what I just read in a book. The author (an attorney) advises a clause in your to have tenants do all the repairs themselves in order to avoid landlord liability. I’d never heard this argument before, and was skeptical that it would really work. Frankly I find this advice a little bizarre. Does anyone have an opinion?
Normally I do nearly everything myself or hire out what I can’t or don’t have time to do. I explained this specific situation already. That became a one time exception and will not be the norm. I wouldn’t trust that I would get a quality job from a tenant most of the time anyway. There was a guy on here who posted a few years back about making the tenants responsible for all repairs under $250 or so. That would cover most of the stuff that would come up besides having to replace appliances, HVAC, roof, etc. As a tenant, I would never sign a lease like that, but to each their own.
That is how I do it. I make the tenant responsible for the first $300. I also provide a home warranty that will fix practically all of it with a $50 co pay (which the tenant pays). That covers pretty much whatever is there. I make the house ready by making sure the house is perfect. New appliances fresh paint etc. I have not had a person not sign because of that. But then again I make the sales pitch that everything is new and new stuff don’t break. If it does it is under warranty or they broke it and “don’t you agree that if you broke it you should fix it?” If they say no to that they can’t rent from me anyway.
I thought home warranties didn’t cover repairs to anything that was less than a year old (at least that’s the case with the ones I’ve seen/used on my personal residence), which is pretty much everything in the house if you’re rehabbing! How do you get around that? Or do you not supply one for the first year after completing the rehab?