Silver vs. JPMorgan

I don’t know if any of you have been following the viral movement online but it’s pretty interesting. If you search for “crash JPMorgan”, Max Keiser, or go to zerohedge you can find a bunch of info about it. I bought a few Silver Eagles for Christmas presents and I hope it helps stop the corruption. If anyone is interested I’d be more than happy to talk about it while trying to follow the political rules of the forum.

If anyone thinks for a split second that a YouTube campaign asking people to buy one or two silver coins is going to “crash JP Morgan” they’re kidding themselves.

This is the type of situation that amazes me…The HERD thinks they’re smart, they THINK they understand the trade here. The REALITY is this…With Gold and silver prices at historic highs and the economy now showing real signs of life, the right side of the trade is to be SHORT metals…NOT LONG…The easy money has already been made on the way up. The WEAK hands are all LONG…A perfect example of those weak hands are the dopes that go out NOW and buy gold or silver…The SECOND that market shows any signs of weakness these people are headed for the doors…and here’s the REALITY…As the scared money hits the bid…

JP MORGANS short position becomes profitable.

Need proof???

Look who bought FLORIDA CONDO’s at the absolute TOP of that market…The HERD.
The HERD always pays top dollar…it doesn’t matter if you’re talking about paying $35,000 for a TOYOTA PRIUS when gas was $4.00/ gallon in 2008 or trading in their SUV’s for PEANUTS at the same time…THEN…2 years later BUYING ANOTHER SUV at full price when they realized they hated their PRIUS!!! :banghead

This is how I make MONEY, save money and create wealth. Doing the exact opposite of what the HERD is doing.

Ford just announced the hiring of 1800 workers to meet demand for it’s cars. JD Power just released it’s owner LOYALITY results…FORD is at NUMBER ONE. Over the next few years the DIVIDEND will return…WATCH what happens. I mention these things for ONE REASON…It is with the HOPE the people here can someday benefit for the inevitable REPEAT of these situations.

We’ll see if it crashes JP or not but there are a few things I’d like to bring up. JP Morgan is being investigated for how many counts of illegal market manipulation right now? Now if you argue that the government will bail them out, or not actually prosecute them then I’d say you have a very valid point. But, even the dumbass herd is starting to get tired of getting the shaft. Civil unrest especially in Western Europe is on the rise and it’s spreading. The only signs or life in the Economy I have seen have been on the major news channels. Unemployment is still in the crapper (sh*t I was just laid off today, but my new job for the city should start in a few weeks so hopefully no big deal). What little increase in employment we have seen has mainly been part time work which may or may not provide survival but not a living. Even the Federal Government has reduced jobs and pay (they hardly ever do the right thing).

I’d be hesitant to call the silver buying as a “herd” because if it is one, it’s one of the smallest herds I’ve ever seen. If you consider it a herd then I think you could probably consider all of the real estate investors a herd as well. I know you use it as an analogy to help show the path less traveled but I think you are reaching in this case. I think to have better clarity we shouldn’t look at what most people are doing but look at what is most successful regardless of the actual population participating in the activity.

Now my case for silver. Am I one of those who get all teary eyed at the thought of the people’s silver revolution and hop on the bandwagon? No. I’m not worried about having silver to use as barter during the coming Road Warrior Apocalypse. If I believed that was coming I still wouldn’t load up because my family and I are avid marksmen so I’d just buy a few more cases of ammo. I was looking into buying silver because:

1. Finite natural resource
2. Used extensively in manufacturing, especially electronics
3. We use more than we mine each year
4. Asia is starting to really accelerate their modernization especially India and China
5. The current price ratio between gold and silver is way out of wack with the historic ratio.
6. Hedge against inflation.
6. It's a pretty cool present for the kids in my family.

Final Thought: Glad to hear about Ford because I bought a few shares towards the beginning of your recommendations.

Good points…and an interesting topic. :beer

Thanks, just wish we could get a little more activity on the forum.

Good comparison to RE investors. Just look at the activity (or lack thereof) on this board. We’re just now starting to see a few new people asking questions about getting their first property. Most people are still worried that property values could go a little lower and they’d lose money. Meanwhile, some of us have been out buying during the rough times when no one else wanted to. I’ve enjoyed the lack of competition while rental demand remains high.

I agree, the inactivity here is disapointing. I dont post much, but I lurk here all the time.

I don’t post much just because I don’t have any experience with RE except from what I’ve learned from this site. I should be getting a job as a police dispatcher for the city within the next month or so. After I’m hired there it will be my first job that will actually get me above the poverty level. So hopefully in the coming months I’ll be asking advice on purchasing my first home. In the meantime (including past few years) I’ve been able to sock some savings and Roth IRA away. So I’ve been buying a little silver, Ford, Harley Davidson, etc. I actually save about 1/2 of the money I make. So my saving % is high but it doesn’t really matter since my overall dollar amount is low. Now if I can keep the % high while increasing my wages then I’ll actually start accumulating some wealth. I’m really focusing on just keeping up good money habits.

@Justin: I’m glad things are going well for you. Buy some extra properties for all of us that don’t have cash while you can. I still think we have a couple years of good buying but no point in waiting when you can buy up a section of the World right now.

Hopefully this new job will mean some good financial changes for you. Luckily you weren’t out of work long. I hope you’re right and can buy your own house pretty soon. I agree with you. I don’t think housing prices will go up much in the next couple years so there should be plenty of good buying opportunities out there.

This is how I make MONEY, save money and create wealth. Doing the exact opposite of what the HERD is doing.

but sure is nice doing some leveraged piggybacking of market herding…aka Soros style… :dance2

can’t remember where I read about his usage of this technique, (piling in when something is going up), but as they say…there’s more than one way to skin a cat.


The main reason I was laid off was due to this new job. Stanley Steemer was never my endgame just a place to make some money in the interim. I applied to become a police dispatcher back in the summer and it has taken months to jump through all the hoops. Computer test, panel interview, polygraph, background check (they contacted my boss at Stanley), psych eval, and on this wed (my birthday btw) I will be meeting with the major and police chief. So anyways this is the slow season and they laid off all of the crappy employees and the few employees like me that had other jobs lined up that Stanley knew about. So hopefully on my birthday I’ll get some good news at the meeting and within a few weeks have a decent job that actually improves my community.

If I get the new job I’ll be making decent money(mid to high 30k) for my first professional job. It isn’t as much as I would eventually like to make but for what the job is I can’t complain about the wages. I’m hoping in my time off that I can start dealing in a little bit of RE. I’ve considered maybe making my first home a multi-family but I’m not sure how my gf would feel about it. We’ve been together for almost 7 years so her opinion does matter unlike a 6 month fling. I’ve also been thinking about tax liens since they don’t require as much money to get started compared to what a lot of you other guys do.

And back to silver…should arrive in a few weeks and it will be a little late for Christmas but that’s ok. I’m going to give them to people with a note saying “Carry me in your pocket as a reminder of what is precious to you.” So far JPMorgan is still around but these investigations are starting to pile up and what little information is being released seems to be pretty damning.

right side of the trade is to be SHORT metals…NOT LONG…The easy money has already been made on the way up. The WEAK hands are all LONG

I agree %100…IMO we are witnessing the 7th inning of Gold’s upward move…Some more to go but closer to the end of its run than the beginning…

Rookie what are your views on commodities in general and/or specific views on certain commodities? From what I’ve read/heard most people should stay outside of commodities, excluding precious metals, because the weight that most of the major players can throw around will crush the individual investor. I’m considering going long on certain food staple commodities due to weak harvests and a resulting increase in food prices.

Excuse my typos …Using my blackberry…

The reason why I say for investors to stay away from commodities is because of extreme volatility…When commodities pull back its a collapse not a pullback…I would say over the next few years to concentrate on tech etf’s…Even taking this one step further and just simply index or use the 2x volatily tech etf’s…Tech does good during inflationary times…At the same time its often difficult for me to give investing advice because I never want anyone to lose money…I react different than a normal investor so I often preach dollar cost averaging and taking a very long term view or it becomes gambling…I firmly believe a young investor should be utilizing a 401k because it works as a forced savings and I like long term dollar cost averaging for these type of investors…Diversification is a tricky topic so I won’t touch on that…Keep in mind that any money invested on a short term basis is considered risk capital…Risk capital is %100 exposed…So be careful…Investing is not something that is to be looked on as “go big or go home”…The downside is painful unless you invest little amounts over a long period of time…

The few stocks and funds that I own have all been very long investments…like until I retire. Now if any of them happen to explode overnight I’d be smiling like a fool the next day but that isn’t the goal in mind that I have. I generally look 3+ years out as a minimum for my stock/fund investments. I don’t mind waiting for any investment as long as the payoff is worth it and the investment has a solid foundation. I dollar cost average not just due to risk but also because I’m still young and don’t have the cash on hand to go all in. My views on diversification are that too much and you won’t lose/make money but too little and you will lose/make a lot.

Anything besides tech that are you looking into? I’ve also been looking at health care and every now and then I’ll glance at home builders to see if they have a pulse yet.

[i]My views on diversification are that too much and you won’t lose/make money but too little and you will lose/make a lot.

Anything besides tech that are you looking into? I’ve also been looking at health care and every now and then I’ll glance at home builders to see if they have a pulse yet. [/i]

I disagree on the diversification if it creates income…Remember you can never have too many streams of income…Passive Income is the best kind…One of the greatest business tips i was ever told was the following line…“The best money you can make is the money you do nothing for”…With investing comes learning and so many sources…You are young and building a foundation which is great…I firmly believe you have the right idea and discipline…Once you reach that plateau you will be more content with maintaining it rather than exposing it to risk in the equity markets…I see many people who are clueless at the risk they expose themselves to in the equity markets…The markets are only good if they go up,I know what you say next…What if I’m short a stock…Yeah that works also but it also hedges out your long plays and you end up net zero gains…Assuming you have x amount of dollars…I would diversify to create income through closed end funds,bond funds,mortgage pool funds,reits,real estate and some private mortgages done at a low LTV…Now you have income and possible gains…This is maintenance portfolio vs a young investor who is searching for the next Google…Which wont happen by the way…Remember the get rich business and the staying rich business are two very different mindsets…When you are starting out you want to swing for the fences but once you have arrived you are content with mid teens % gains …If I make %15+ a year I’m so happy you can’t even imagine…Meanwhile if you have x amount making %15 its nothing special…You see where I’m going with this…Make sure on the way up the $$ ladder you are pairing out those gains and creating income streams or a nasty pullback,recession,911 will put your retirement off for

And to answer your question other than tech etf’s I havent been stock picking lately…I truly enjoy the business I have created since the bank/financing implosion…Huge arb opp out there in the funding side of real estate right now…IMHO its going to be this way for a long time to come and even if it isnt the banks are scrutinizing and denying quality business owners with tremendous equity and capital…

Two comments from me…


Your “girl friend”. Is SHE going to be buying real estate and investing in stocks by POOLING her money with yours???

If the answer is YES…Then you now have a PARTNER that every decision has to be discussed with and agreed on… You just made this TWICE as hard!!!

If the answer is NO…Then you’ll be doing yourself a PRICELESS favor by just going out an INVESTING, do your research, be smart, but NEVER let a girl friend interfere with your business…E V E R!!!

I’ve seen too many people PARALYZED by a wife or girl friend, filled with worry and fear, second guessed themselves to DEATH and NEVER INVEST A DIME because of it.

If this is your WIFE it’s one thing…You have to spend TIME educating her and explaining that you’re DOING THIS, if it means getting a part time job and using those funds, that’s fine…But you’re not asking for PERMISSION here…This IS going to happen.

I don’t mean to rant here but I can tell you with absolute certainty that you will be BOMBARDED with naysayers that have never invested a CENT. These people you can ignore easily…The wives and girlfriends can be harder to deal with because of the emotions involved. MAKE SURE you explain that your investing is a given, it’s going to happen, some of it will go well, some of it not so well…The KEY is to survive LONG ENOUGH to UNDERSTAND what works and what does not. To hear you say that a multiple family property might not fly with HER???..Every warning sign I have just flashed RED!! You can have ASSETS and you can have LIABILITIES…Don’t MARRY or waste your time with a LIABILITY.

Remember this…

INVESTING is 90% MENTAL…It’s about having B@LLS…And having the ability and the mental toughness to place your B@LLS on the chopping block. At this point you’re saying "NO SH* T?? I already know that…YOU DON’T…Because investing REQUIRES PAIN…It is also very EASY to stop that pain by walking away.

Most new investors make mistakes on their first few deals…If those mistakes are BIG…They WALK AWAY…They just PAID for an EDUCATION, and as soon as they received their diploma THEY THROW IT OUT!!!

SUCCESSFUL INVESTORS learn from those mistakes, ADMIT THOSE MISTAKES to themselves, come back for more, and CHANGE what needs to be changed.
if you have a wife or a girlfriend that REPEATEDLY REMINDS you of your loses YOU ARE DOOMED TO FAIL!!

I am not saying this is your situation…I don’t know you…I wrote this as a warning to others, and from SEEING this happen OVER and OVER to people who COULD HAVE been very successful investors but they Never had the B@LLS to stand up to their “partner” and explain how this was going to work.

Answer is “NO” and I’ve been studying investing and using small amounts throughout the 7 years we have been together. The reason she may not want the multifamily is due to the fact that we are both very tired of having crappy neighbors since we’ve been living in either dorms or apartments the past few years. She wouldn’t be against it for investing reasons but for privacy reasons. So if that is the case I may just buy a cheap property for us to live in a few years and sell it a few years down the road for that tax free profit.

I’ve been slowly (sometimes painfully slow) teaching her and even her mom about proper personal finance and very basic investing theories. She’s been at the point for a while where we have our finances in order and know where are money is going. So now it’s just finding out how I want to invest mine and how she wants to invest hers. Since I find these topics interesting I don’t have a problem doing research and accidentally staying up way past my bedtime. She on the other hand knows it is important but isn’t just naturally interested like I am. I bet if I can show some stable returns she’d be a little more attention.

Thanks everyone for the advice I have some more topics I want to talk about later but I’ve got to go pick up my gf soon since today is both our birthdays (I’m 6 hours older). Oh I got the police dispatch job just need to pass the physical and drug test then I get me some of teh citeeez money.

(I’m 6 hours older).
…I would add to this comment but I’m liable to get booted by a female moderator…

Congrats on the job…

Yeah, glad you got the job.
If you do REI and do it successfully, her interest will probably increase quite a bit. My wife was cautious going into our apartment deal, but has been all about expanding the business the last couple years. We got to the point where she didn’t care about looking at houses with me. I’d tell her what I found and she’d say go for it. She liked the ones with less work, but sometimes the sweat equity was worth it.
I know lots of people recommend finding a small multi-unit to live in and rent out the others to get started, but I like not living one wall over from the residents or even letting them know where we live.

rookie - I don’t think there are any female mods anymore… Don’t get booted though. I like having you around.