I am interested in a property which is short sale and currently under contract and the investor(purchaser) wanted to sell it to me but with conditions. Listing agent told me Investor is interested in selling
at a profit in a cash only transaction which in this case could be above 50k. On asking why do investor need profit in cash he stated because of Anti Flipping Rule. Can someone tell me if it is legal? Also can this amount reflect in closing deeds?Thoughts??
You may want to check with RE attorney in your area. That maybe a state or city law
sounds like trouble to me
redhawk
I contacted listing agent and he told me that HUD 1 will show purchase price to me and cash needed to close. On the sellers side it will show purchase price the price I agreed to pay and proceeds to the seller.Can someone help me understand how this works and is it legal?
Are you worried that the investor is making money or are you saying that there is no profit left in the deal for you so why should you buy it?
If you get the deal at your MAO then what is the big deal? Investors wholesale deals all the time. Don’t buy the deal if you don’t know what you are doing. :help
I am not worried that investor is making money.I am trying to understand what listing agent told me that HUD 1 will show purchase price to me and cash needed to close. On the sellers side it will show purchase price the price I agreed to pay and proceeds to the seller. Can you please clarify it
Let me take a stab at it.
B is buying a property from A. C is buying the property from B. So the transaction is A-B, B-C.
A is selling for 50K and is to net 50K, less selling expenses. B is buying for 50K, plus closing costs. The B-C transaction works the same.
So let’s say it’s 50K - 2,500 to seller A, who will net $47,500. 50K + 2,500 to buyer B is a net cost of $52,500.
The Settlement (net proceeds statement) form, the HUD-1, will show:
Seller Side Buyer Side
Sales Price 50,000 50,000
Selling Costs -2,500
Closing Costs 2,500
------------- -------------
Net Due to Seller at closing 47,500
Net Due From Buyer at closing 52,500
I think you can see this a lot more clearly if you actually fire up a HUD-1 generating piece of software, probably as a spreadsheet, and actually put in some numbers. If you don’t have some examples, see if you can find some in different RE investing books, or ask a Realtor, Attorney, Title Company to give you one with the names removed.
Just flesh the transaction out on two different HUD statements until it makes sense. Make sense?
The reason why most investors want cash buyers, is to eliminate “title seasoning” issues. If your end buyer in a shortsale flip is using conventional financing and the lender does a title search and requires a 30-90 day hold on title from previous owner you are dead in the water. On the B-C transaction make sure the end buyer’s lender has no issues with title seasoning.
I don’t know any lenders these days that don’t have some title seasoning requirements. And if you’re looking to flip a short sale the bank/owner send directions to the title company that doesn’t allow any type of simultaneous Flip and will not insure title and if the title company is caught doing so can lose it license.
The issue of seasoning is why you should transfer the deed into a trust at contract not purchase… This isnt difficult… I am doing concurrents with cash buyers without issue… Just find an escrow company to work with.
I am looking into a short sale situation. My game plan is to do a back to back closing to a retail buyer with me as the B part of the deal. Of course, the end buyer would have conventional loan. Has anyone seen lenders reject an offer due to flipping or do the anitflip rules only apply to the end buyer?
A lot of lenders don’t understand why properties are put into a Trust and how the personalty known as the beneficial interest is not the same as the Real Property owned by the Trust, so because they don’t comprehend it, their simple answer is, “No”. Banks like to say, “No” because being in the banking business is all about being super conservative. Unfortunately, this is the reason you have to work with a smaller bank who actually will take some time to try to understand what is going on.
Unfortunately, option contracts do not convey title until the day of closing, so their is a seasoning issue. If you create a Trust at the onset of the deal, however, as long as you close at least 91 days after title has changed from the borrower’s name to the Trust, there shouldn’t be any issue.
But I’ve been studying Trusts for so long now that they are just another legal entity to me, and I no longer understand why I once was so confused.
I’d say you have to make sure you understand the lender’s requirements but your lender has to understand how you’re taking title. When the short sale is concluded with the Bank, if title is still held by a SPE - an LLC or better, a Title Holding Land Trust, the only change of title will be from A to C. B is just purchasing the beneficial interest held by A and reselling it to C, for a fee. The Trustee’s Deed is executed from the Trust to C, so there shouldn’t be any seasoning issues on the Title.
But maybe I’m not understanding the question. Like I said, now that I’m on this side of the understanding curve, it’s hard for me to comprehend why I didn’t understand them.
The “anti-flipping” rule the investor is referring to is most likely a provision is this investor’s short sale purchase agreement which prohibits the investor from flipping the property for profit for some period of time, or else the investor will have to pay the lender some high percentage of his profit .
The lender’s reasoning is that if the property can be sold for a higher price, then the lender should not have to approve as large a short sale discount.
Sounds like the investor wants you to help him defraud the short sale lender.
Just how I see it.
I aggree with you if the banks going to except 100,000 thats because they have done their homework and know that the home is not going to appriase for more than 100,000. I dont see how all these investors think the bank is going to except some deep discount of say 50,000 so you can turn a 50,000 profit.
Thanks just not going to happen.
Thomas