John,
great post,thanks.WOW!
Jimmy Stewart’s movie Mr. Smith goes to Washington (1939) is a must if you haven’t seen it.
It’s got everything wrong with politics today in it. From State controlled media to the loss of separation of powers with the 17th amendment. The film was banned in Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Soviet Russia and Falangist Spain.
Here is a free streaming copy in pretty good quality.
What is wrong with facism? Isn’t that what we have here with the teabaggers?
Bluemoon,
Haven’t you noticed yet I never respond to your random phrases?
Bluemoon06,
“What is wrong with facism? Isn’t that what we have here with the teabaggers?”
Well, if you know the definition, it becomes quite clear who the fascist/socialist is and who the patriot’s are… This weekend when Obama was challenged by Stephanopolis (a leftist who worked in Clinton’s Administration) on the definition of TAX, Obama tried to change ThAT definition because it didn’t fit what he wanted…
Your challenge in calling the tea party people fascists, is that they were NOT a governmental system NOR controlled by a dictator or by any one person… There was no leader to this movement, just supporters…
fas-cism, –noun
1. a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.
so-cial-ism, –noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.
pa-tri-ot, -noun
1. a person who loves, supports and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
2. a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, esp. of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.
Pos,
Yeah I loved his arguement with the dictionary definition of taxes.This guy is so arrogant he even screws up a staged softball interview.WOW!And he had no idea acorn was getting tax money,yeah and the sky is green too. :rolleyes He’s so outta here in 2012.
Sorry, I was talking more of what you learned about fascism in history class instead of just looking at the definition. Because by definition if you don’t have Mussolini, you don’t have fascism.
Fascism is an extreme measure taken by the middle classes to forestall lower-working class revolution; it thrives on the weakness of the middle classes. It accomplishes this by embracing the middle-class’ love of the status-quo, its complacency and its fears of:
a. Generating a united struggle within the working class
b. Revolution
c. Losing its own power and position within society
You are afraid to pay the government your taxes because then you are afraid that you will be reduced to eatting cat food.
As you can see, this is the manifesto of the conservative movement. It preys on the fears of you guys of losing what you have.
I get that from a lot of people when I ask them to think if they don’t dothink very well. I ask you to think about things as to why you believe what you believe. A lot of people don’t know why they believe what they believe. I just assume that you don’t know why you believe what you believe. It doesn’t make you bad or anything. As to my fascism question; what I would expect from a person that actually thinks about things is to say fascism is this, I see it bad there and it has problems here. If you just throw around either general concepts without specific problems you are just Pavlovianiscly throwing red meat.
Again I think (as Captain Kirk said) it is important to know why things work on a Starship. Life is the same way, you should not just say I am this or I believe that unless you know why you believe it. Most people don’t.
Bluemoon06,
“Sorry, I was talking more of what you learned about fascism in history class instead of just looking at the definition. Because by definition if you don’t have Mussolini, you don’t have fascism.”
This is actaully pretty scary if this is what you learned in history class… I wonder if the kids in school today are learning a NEW definition of TAX, Obama-style?.. Fascism has actually been practiced throughout history… read a little on Rome… Mussolini created the political party, not the concept (BTW, it is the only political party specifically outlawed by the Italian constitution)… It doesn’t suprise me you apply this to Mussolini only in contextual perspective, as the below are not even your words…
“Fascism is an extreme measure taken by the middle classes to forestall lower-working class revolution; it thrives on the weakness of the middle classes. It accomplishes this by embracing the middle-class’ love of the status-quo, its complacency and its fears of:
a. Generating a united struggle within the working class
b. Revolution
c. Losing its own power and position within society”
Tell you what, instead of trying to pass off someone elses thoughts as your own without quoting it or providing links, how about actually thinking through the concept…
Fasicsm has no rise WITHOUT centralized governmental power, orgranized and used to SUPPRESS opposition and criticism OF government BY government… Patriotism comes from the people, NOT the government… The rise of the Tea Party movement was by the people, with their efforts being OPPOSED by the government AND media (propoganda)… So your supposition copied from someone elses thoughts is not applicable… not in a dictionary nor historical context…
“You are afraid to pay the government your taxes because then you are afraid that you will be reduced to eatting cat food.”
This is simply a ludicrous statement… People don’t want to give the government THEIR MONEY THEY EARNED, because it REDUCES their freedom, not because they are afraid they will eat catfood… the MORE you give the government, the LESS free you are… only a minset RELIANT on the government or having OTHERS rely on the government thinks this way… One of the characteristics of a conservative IS non-reliance on the government for all your needs…
“As you can see, this is the manifesto of the conservative movement. It preys on the fears of you guys of losing what you have”
Bluemoon06, in this statement, you don’t even realize how you are being manipulated… There is an advantage to reading all sides of an issue and ideology…
This is my point exactly. When I asked what is wrong with fascism. Fascism on its base says that people have different abilities and as such should not be allowed to make their own decisions but have representatives (fascists) that are smarter than them. (Read Republican style of government).
That is why I had it off to itself, but you are right, I should have used quotation marks.
How so?
That centrialized power does not have to be government it can be Rush Limbaugh
Hey John_in_NC,
I am in NC this week. Are you anywhere close to Wake Forest?
Bluemooon06,
“This is my point exactly. When I asked what is wrong with fascism. Fascism on its base says that people have different abilities and as such should not be allowed to make their own decisions but have representatives (fascists) that are smarter than them. (Read Republican style of government).”
Slavery, in all its forms, has been practicied throughout history also… BOTH are opposite to freedom. Your analogy of fascism to a Representative Republic is quite a stretch…
“How so?”
Whenever you are FORCED to give money, as opposed to you FREELY giving it, the one doing the forcing has the power, ergo, being forced to give the government MORE money through GROWING taxation gives the government MORE power, making you less free… you really needed this explained to you?
“That centrialized power does not have to be government it can be Rush Limbaugh”
It’s very interesting you give Rush Limbaugh that much power… considering he purposely didn’t promote the 9/12 protest, but it happened anyway, negates your point… But whether you agree or disagree with him, you have the FREEDOM to not listen to him or to listien to him… That’s called free speech… The difference in fascism, is having the government TAKE that freedom away by suppressing Rush Limbaugh through governmental control (i.e. - fairness doctrine or some other form).
Another example would be the government putting a Gag Order on Humana Insurance telling them that they cannot inform their customers what the CBO is saying regarding cuts to their Medicare Advantage program… as opposed to Humana practicing their free speech…
While a democracy is majority rule a republic is a representative form of government. Why is that? That is because these representatives are better at making these decisions than you are. We can call them an elite group. In fascism there is a group that rules also. The representative group is voted in by you but in fascism the rulers are appointed. Either way you are not smart enough to rule yourself. That is why they are the same.
Nobody ever freely gives any money. Where do you freely give money? Nowhere. You may say that you give money to the church freely, but no you don’t you give with the hope of getting into heaven. You don’t even give money to your dear old grandma freely. You do it so that you can feel better about yourself.
It doesn’t have to be Rush in the flesh. I have issue with people that believe a view…any view and don’t know why they believe it. It is the same as you probably see Obamaites as mindless followers. I feel the same way about them. For example I am not for healthcare because I don’t think we have defined the problem well enough to embark on a solution. In other words it won’t solve the problem. You don’t like healthcare because the government is doing it. You don’t like taxes because the government is taking your freedom, while if the church takes your offering they are not taking your freedom, you don’t want a representative to represent you if they are a government representative. You just don’t like the government. That is like saying you don’t want to be raped by this guy but you don’t mind being raped by that guy. I say you either don’t like being raped or you do. This is like being a government bigot.
People are saved by God’s grace, not by works. We can’t buy our way into heaven. If someone has accepted Jesus Christ, hope isn’t part of the equation.
Typical Liberal comment by Bluemoon. Liberals think that people are HORRIBLE GREEDY PEOPLE. Dude…
My family gives $1000 a year to a Breast Cancer Foundation.
We’ve given money to poor little African kids…
We’ve given money to church… but according to you thats because were scared of going to hell. :rolleyes
We’ve given money to food drives to feed the poor (wait… I thought Conservatives didnt care about poor people???)
And guess what… MY FAMILY ISNT RICH. Were VERY middle class, and yet…we give… hmmhphh.
When the government STEALS my money, and GIVES it to somebody else, that PI$$ES me off though like no other.
I think theres alot more good people out there than you think Bluemoon.
The FACT is that liberals are only “liberal” with someone else’s money not their own.Did anyone see how much Biden gave to charity??I grew up in Mississippi and it is the lowest income state,but you know what they’re #1 in??Charity donations!!So if liberal beliefs hold true should’nt this be california or new york??Instead we’re supposed to listen to all these elites tell us capitalism is evil.Well should’nt everyone have the same shot at success as you did.Or is it a "no vacancy"area once liberals get there(the few that actually did’nt have it handed to them.)?
Bluemoon06,
“That is because these representatives are better at making these decisions than you are. We can call them an elite group. In fascism there is a group that rules also. The representative group is voted in by you but in fascism the rulers are appointed. Either way you are not smart enough to rule yourself. That is why they are the same.”
Well, that cleared it up… :rolleyes In your example, one is voted in and one is appointed… then you conclude the point by saying they are the same because we are not smart enough to rule ourselves… They are not necessarily smarter than us in making the decisions, they are just given the legal role to do so… With a Representative Republic, we can object with removing their decision making capability by voting them out… fascism, not so much…
"Nobody ever freely gives any money. Where do you freely give money? Nowhere. You may say that you give money to the church freely, but no you don’t you give with the hope of getting into heaven. You don’t even give money to your dear old grandma freely. You do it so that you can feel better about yourself. "
Giving freely, whether it is to make oneself “feel better” or not is the FREEDOM to do so or NOT, depsite the motivation… having it FORCIBLY removed through every-increasing taxation is not freedom, and the more it is done, the LESS free you are…
As Justin hit on, if you have trusted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you already know that money will not buy your way into heaven… Grace is a gift freely given and not of works lest any man should boast…
“It doesn’t have to be Rush in the flesh.”
That was your supposition, I was just responding to it… If it is not Rush in the flesh, then your point about him being the “centralized power” is mute…
“I have issue with people that believe a view…any view and don’t know why they believe it. It is the same as you probably see Obamaites as mindless followers. I feel the same way about them.”
I think alot of people who were caught up with the “hope and change” BS, and didn’t pay attention to the reality definitely fall into this category, but sadly there is a growing number of people who want the government to take care of them instead of then doing it for themsleves, which history tells us is a BAD THING…
“For example I am not for healthcare because I don’t think we have defined the problem well enough to embark on a solution. In other words it won’t solve the problem. You don’t like healthcare because the government is doing it.”
The reason I am not for the government doing it, is that they CANNOT be trusted with this responsibility. They have not EARNED this trust due to their FAILURE to deal with the exisiting programs they currently have, which are BANKRUPT!
Think about the lunacy of this… Obama says we are going to pay for his healthcare program by removing $5-$600 BILLION DOLLARS of waste, fraud and abuse from MEDICARE… So the entity that it is responsible for this amount of waste, fraud and abuse, on an ANNUAL BASIS, we are now supposed to TRUST them to get this right with 1/6th of the ENTIRE ECONOMY??? There’s a reason PT Barnum said - “there is a sucker born every minute”… They have had DECADES and TRILLIONS of dollars in waste, fraud and abuse to try and get it right, and they STILL COULDN’T DO IT… and the answer is to let them do MORE??? :banghead
I prefer to hold the government ACCOUNTABLE - PROVE you can remove the $5-$600 BILLION in ANNUAL fraud, waste and abuse, and THEN we’ll talk about whether or not you are trustworthy for the next step.
“You don’t like taxes because the government is taking your freedom, while if the church takes your offering they are not taking your freedom”
The two are not analogous… the government TAKES the money through FORCED taxation, the Church RECEIVES money through the GIVING of tithes and offerings, which noone FORCES you to do… quite a difference… Last I checked, the church was not taking their money from your paycheck… If people had to send a CHECK every month to the government, they would be more up in arms regarding it…
“…you don’t want a representative to represent you if they are a government representative.”
If they are not representing us by first keeping their oath to protect the Constitution, then I will vote to have them removed, because they are NOT doing their job…
“You just don’t like the government.”
I am cautious when it comes to the government, with VERY good cause… our Founding Fathers WARNED us against this for VERY good reasons…
“That is like saying you don’t want to be raped by this guy but you don’t mind being raped by that guy. I say you either don’t like being raped or you do.”
A more apt analogy would be - Having the money FORCIBLY taken from you by the government as being raped… GIVING the same money to the Church would be consentual… again, two totally different things…
“This is like being a government bigot.”
Aside from the inanity of the statement, playing along… I’d rather be a government bigot than a freedom-hater anyday…
Sorry been away from the computer a lot lately, yes I am about 45 mins away. I live south of raleigh, wake forest is north.
That is beautiful country. It rained a bit while I was there but the sun came out and it was nice. The heat is breaking up now.