Random Ramble about people

Random Ramblings
1

Hello everybody, just a random ramble coming…

Maybe its just me, but it seems like everybody has things backwards.

All of my friends are off to college right now, and I recently met up with all of them. They are all spending all this money of college, to get a job. Cool deal… right?

Well, assuming they can get a job (having a college degree doesnt mean youll get a job) whats next? Well… they work… use that money to pay off stuff they want. They have to keep working to keep paying the bills and thats all. Theres nothing more… nothing less… Is that all everybody wants? Lets say its a really good paying job… okay… so what?

I dont know about everybody else… but I have a job right now, and even though I like the field of Nursing, I still dont like going to work (this is why I want to be a investor, more freedoms). I do it though, because I have a GOAL of doing something ELSE other than WORKING EVERY DAY the rest of my life (for somebody else)

I just dont get the mindset. I know somebody on this site (cant remember who it is, i think it might be Bluemoon) keeps saying something like “getting paid for a job is the worst thing that can happen to you, because you want to keep working it.” Or something like that.

But anyway… heres the system thats going on right now…

  1. Kids are told to try hard in school so they can get a good job.
  2. Kids go to college, thinking they can get a good job.
  3. Young adults get a good job out of college (hopefully, if their degree isnt worthless)
  4. Thats it… they work…and theres nothing else. Work, spend, work, spend.

What goes through peoples heads for them to be happy just working their whole life, working towards nothing else but to get the next weeks paycheck?

Surely… I cant be more “enlightened” than everybody else… (i dont consider myself THAT smart)… so seriously… what gives? Maybe im just lazy, and dont want to work every day like everybody else.

Thoughts?

2

Working a job is a means to an end. When that end comes depends on what you make of it. Maybe you make good money, invest wisely, and then are able to retire early. Or maybe you spend every dime you ever make to keep up with the people down the street that you can’t let have a better car than you. In the case of the latter, you’ll be working until the day you die. I love my job (at my current assignment) and have a great time flying jets, but there are sometimes I wish I had more time off…like having the freedom to say that my weekend isn’t over Sunday night and I can go to work Tuesday or Wednesday instead.
Most people don’t know any other way besides working all week (or sitting at home on welfare) and don’t try to do anything else. I’d rather create a stream of income to give myself the freedom to do what I want when I want.
There are couples out there now that owe 250k in student loans. How long will they be a slave to that debt? Most people are still going to want to spend money on their wants/desires. I just couldn’t imagine paying on student loans into my mid-40s.
Everyone pushes education saying that as jobs become more scarce and more people have degrees, you need to have a degree to be competitive. You also hear that people now need Master’s degrees since things are more competitive. I want my kids to be able to go to college if that’s what they choose to do and I’m saving to help them with that, but I hope the actions of my wife and I will show them that there’s another way to do things.

3

This is a complicated subject…

Lots of people go to college for the wrong reasons… and the wrong expectations.

I have a degree and some post graduate education. I believe that it helped me helped me to learn how to think critically (I don’t mean negatively), improve my ability to communicate intelligently and thoughtfully, navigate opposing viewpoints, socialize myself, grind off the rougher edges of the snowflake that was my character and personality, and finally how to work smarter. After that, it was all downhill.

You now who makes the most money with degrees? C students. You know who makes more money than C students? College dropouts.

Most of the richest men in America do not have four year degrees… Why? I say they were less curious, and more results oriented.

Many who get degrees rely on them rather than on producing results. That’s a lot to say there, but the former CEO of General Electric, Jack Welch, stopped hiring people with advanced degrees to fill important posts and instead focused on hiring producers instead. He said the difference was that the educated hires were quite curious, asked all sorts of questions, and found all sorts of answers, but failed to produce results. The less curious, were more about results. So he stopped hiring the “curious” and began hiring the productive.

That really separates the sheep from the goats.

FWIW

4

Besides the obvious lack of jobs, the problem is this BS shotgun approach to education that the US has. Everyone, either has a hodge podge degree in everything or a super laser like focused degree in something dumb like CSI or French Literature. People view college as a happy go lucky fun time to study what interests them and to go out and party. I really love video games but I didn’t take some hippy feel good nostalgic mario class…that’s what high school was for. I tell any prospective or current college student I meet to make sure they aren’t wasting their time/money. Get a degree in math, computers, engineer, biology, physics, or another hard science. These degrees pay and have a huge job opportunity base that isn’t going away. IMO college should be 75% logic, writing, English, science, and finance. The last 25% can be made up of your specific classes for your degree. If we start training our citizens to think then they can learn to do just about anything.

The other thing I hate is that Americans as a whole are brought up believing that manual get your hands dirty labor is bad and you are dumb for doing it. People that get up on your roof and calculate areas, angles, and trigonometry in their head believe they are dumb because they don’t have a white collar job.

And whats the deal with airline food?

/end rant

5

I think most people in the US are not capable of working for themself,they need someone to report to, make sure they do there job, etc,if you let them work for themself, in some period of time most would be spending more time on the golf course (or some other distraction), less time working, then wonder why they are successful.

I was a director at a publicly traded company, so I know that side of the street, nothing wrong with it, but a lot of people have the employee mentality

If you have a tenant ready to move into a new property that still needs some finishing touches and your contractor at another job, you go over. start working and stay until you have the house ready, yes its manual labor, but thats what is required to get the job done…a lot of people would think there was something wrong with that,I dont and I’m sure most people on this message board don’t.

6

The Education SCAM is the same as the HOMEOWNER SCAM!!!

It’s a pile of BULLSH*T that gets feed by the LAST PERSON at the TABLE to the NEXT person at the table.

I can’t tell you how many friends I have that went into the TRADES that are MILLIONAIRES right now…

Plumbers that run multi million dollar commercial plumbing businesses with NO COLLEGE education.

Electricians running huge operations servicing big companies for millions/year.

LANDSCAPERS that moved into SEPTIC SYSTEM INSTALLS, HEAVY CONSTRUCTION, and Real estate developement.

The list goes on and on. ALL of them with NO STUDENT LOANS, NO MORTGAGES and little to no debt of any kind. these are SEASONED guys who saw the bust coming and PREPARED FOR IT…My landscaper told me…“I was throwing prices at people that were so insane I thought I would NEVER get the job, and didn’t WANT them…THEY STILL HIRED US! That’s when I knew this was going to end UGLY.”

Here’s the other interesting FACT…

Unlike their College educated friends…They HAVEN’T had to move thier families from one side of the country to the other every 3 years because “Corporate” needed someone in Toledo.

They haven’t come into work and found their DIVISION was being sent to INDIA.

They haven’t seen their retirement WIPED OUT by the 2008 stock market crash…Sure they took a hit but their REAL WEALTH is in REAL ESTATE and their businesses assets. these guys all survived because they had LITTLE to any debt and just SHRUNK their businesses to fit the economic demand.

People are CATTLE…they follow the ASS in front of them. The folks that can THINK and SEE what’s REALLY going on always rise to the top. But they’re considered ODD BALLS.

Do the OPPOSITE and It’s very hard not to make $$$$$$$$$$$.

7

Yes that is what I say. The second worst thing that happens to a person is that they get a job. The worst is that they get paid from that job. From then on whenever they need money they look for a job. A job is trading time for money. You only have so mch time and they are only going to compensate you so much.

Everybody that sells real estate courses target people with no cash and no credit. I deal with people with cash and credit. I do that because they have everything that it takes to become rich. They just don’t know what to do to get off the trading time for money treadmill. These people live in big houses and drive new cars and earn big salaries but wonder how they are going to retire. I explain that piles of money does not retire you cashflow does. The reason they don’t retire tomorrow although they have $1million saved up is because next month they will get a mailbox full of bills. What they need to meet those bills is income not piles of cash. Real estate gives you income.

People don’t understand what college is for. It is for rich people and people that are making themselves into something. You know Kennedys and Bushs. People that don’t need money. They get degrees in English Literature or Art History. If you want to make money from college you have to make yourself into something. What I mean is that if after you graduate you are something different than when you enrolled then you can make money. You took nursing. When you graduate you are a nurse. You make money. I took engineering. When I graduated I become an engineer I make money. When you major in music you don’t become a music-er or when you major in English you are not an English-er. So you don’t make money. I bought enough houses to pay all my living expenses so I work because I love what I do. If I didn’t have a job I would go around doing exactly what I do everyday at my job. I essentially get paid to be me. I fly around the country telling executives how to do their jobs correctly. They actually pay me to do that. My advice to everybody is never do a job that you don’t love. If you wake up in the morning and dread going in to work then get another job. It is like being married to a woman you can’t stand or driving a car that you don’t absolutely love to drive. Get rid of that ugly wife and get one you actually like. Sell that beater car and get yourself a convertible sports car. Do everything in life that you love don’t do the stuff you don’t like.

8

Great posts. But there is an advantage to just having a college degree, ANY degree. There are many jobs where the first requirement is a degree. Why?

Because a degree proves that for four years you got up, went to class whether you felt like it or not, did a bunch or critical thinking and problem solving, wrote English well enough to get a passing grade on lots of different papers. The degree today proves that you are computer-savvy enough for most jobs. It proves that you completed something. You started and you finished. Bravo!

Both of our daughters got degrees and got jobs because they had degrees. Got jobs where the first requirement was that 4-year college degree.

Trade school is good and professional training is good. But that 4-year credentialed college degree does open doors, I have seen that.

If I were attempting college now I would try NOT to borrow thousands. Instead pick a school with lower tuition and just go for the degree while you work part-time.

You don’t need college if you are Zuckerman or Gates. The rest of us need a college degree, a trade, or a professional degree. Anything else could be a dead end when you have too many obligations to go back to school. Don’t forget that the brain ages too. So get it while you are young.

Furnishedowner

9

I go back to my statement about college and jobs. If you are smart enough to get a degree then you are that smart with or without a degree. People will recognize how smart you are and treat you accordingly. If you want a job you should go to work for Lowes, Home Depot, Wal-Mart etc right out of high school. The best time to get one of those jobs is in November just before Christmas hiring when they are hiring everybody that can stand up straight and a few that can’t. After December return season they call the good workers into HR and offer them permanent jobs. If you are smart enough to get a college degree they will see that smartness on you as you are working there and within a year you will be promoted to department manager you are now 19 or 20 years old. Your college counterparts are juniors making no money racking up debt. If you do a good job there within 2 to 3 years you will make zone manager and then you are making about $45k to $50k/year. You are then about 23 to 24 years of age your college graduate counterparts are just coming out of college getting jobs making $45 to $50k/year with all that earning down time and most likely a pile of debt. If you are a good zone manager for 2 to 3 years you are going to get the opportunity to be a store manager making $80 to $100k with a store manager’s bonus system which pays up to 100% for a full bonus. By not going to college you are 30 years old and making between $80k and $180k.

That is why I say that you only want to go to college if you are majoring in something that pays an unusually large starting salary or you want to do a job that is easy. You need to pick the company you go to work for and pick one that does not require a college degree to be a store manager. These companies generally require a degree to go beyond that store manager but they also at that level will pay for you to get that degree. Then you are put in the pool eligible for area managers etc these guys oversee 4 to 6 stores and get company cars, salaries of $150k or so and 100% bonus potential. These guys are making $200k and are 35 to 45 years old.

You are then officially a slave to the corporation. That is when you “buy your life back”. On your way up make sure you don’t get carried away with your lifestyle spending. I kept my lifestyle to the point that I could afford my lifestyle with the rent from 10 houses or so. Then instead of buying a BMW buy yourself 10 rent houses and then your total check is extra money every month. How fast do you think that will build up?

10

I don’t think going to college is all that bad. I went to college and got a degree in electrical engineering that I have never used; however, I was fortunate b/c I didn’t have to pay for school b/c of athletic and academic scholarships… I actually made money going to school, each semester they would give me a check for 2k… I/d have to say that the memories and friends that I have made from going to college is priceless and I would never give all that up. I met my wife b/c of college. So no, it’s definitely not all bad.

Yes, times are different now where getting a degree doesn’t guarantee a good job with a great retirement like it used to back in the day. But it still does give you the great memories of the greatest years of most peoples lives…

I think the main thing for people who go to college or not is to have the right mindset. The mindset of using the money that you make work for you instead of you working for your money. Stop chasing the money and set up a system, whatever that may be, that has people paying you money all of the time. When you are sleeping, you are getting paid. When you are on vacation, you are getting paid. When you are working on a house or meeting with clients, you are making money. The point is to set up a system where people are chasing you to give you money.

THEN, you are no longer paying for your car, your house, or your JET, but the people who are chasing you b/c of your system are paying for all of your bills.

My brother makes over 100k and is 10 years older than I am and he said to me that he doesn’t know for sure how he is going to retire… I am not concerned whatsoever. It’s a mindset thing that he doesn’t understand. His money isn’t working for him and he is chasing the money, not the other way around.

I actually have a goal that I will be completely retired by 35, and that I will continue doing RE just b/c I WANT to not b/c I HAVE to…

… I look forward to that future date, however, I LOVE the days and things I am learning NOW!!

11

hoosier,
You started an interesting post. This has gotten me thinking about my own continuing evolution into an investor wanna-be. First comes the wanna-be, then comes the investor mind-set.

You posters on this site have been invaluable to me, as I try to bust out of my egg-shell of doing what I always have done.

I bought my first house from a fairly big self-made California real estate investor. It was a little fixer house with owner-financing. The investor seller told me, " I can teach you to buy and sell real estate. You can make a lot more money than you do with your job."

What did I say to this unsolicited, incredible offer from an experienced real estate mentor?–“NO, THANKS. I HAVE ENOUGH MONEY FROM MY JOB. I LIKE MY FREE TIME.”

Two years later I had burned out on my hospital job, and was spending all my spare time reading real estate want ads. Eventually I got my real estate license and started selling houses.

I started buying one house a year as a long-term investment. I worked my butt off selling on weekends, and weekdays. Very little free time.

Life continued to happen. I kept those rentals as I raised kids, paid the bills, cooked dinner. Enough money was coming in for a comfortable, middle-class life style. No thoughts of other investing.

Now I am older and a business owner. Each day dollars come in and they go out. It is a juggling act. I want more.

My furnished house rental business pays my bills and pays off a lot of equity but that’s it. Sort of like the salaried job I used to have. It will provide for my retirement, but that won’t be on a yacht.

It has taken me years to evolve into a different mindset. Now I am finally getting it. I have sifted some gold nuggets out of all the crap I have learned in my life:
CASH CAN MAKE YOU MORE CASH
DON’T SPEND YOUR HARD-EARNED CASH ON STUPID STUFF
YOU HAVE TO BE A CONSTANT SEEKER OF CASH
YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR TREADMILL, HAMSTER

Now here is another golden crumb: YOU HAVE TO ASSOCIATE WITH AND LISTEN TO PEOPLE WHO DON’T DRAG YOU DOWN. YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO OTHER SEEKERS OF CASH.

You guys on this site are it.

Thanks a lot, I’m signing off to go back to my day job.

Furnishedowner

12

I agree, college can be a great thing and has been for me. It’s improved my comunication skills, interpersonal skills, critical thinking skills. So I don’t see it as a waste of time. I had my SMALL student loans paid off after 8 months of graduating.

As others have said, it’s all about mindset and knowing how to handle money. With that money, it’s then all about setting up systems to make residual cash paying over and over.

13

Hoosier. I think the majority of 9-5 ers are simply too scared to depend on themselves for income. We’re taught to climb the corporate ladder instead of OWNING the ladder. Its drilled into our heads from grade school to college that getting a good job = security, happieness, etc… So its no wonder that most people don’t have that mindset. Also, there’s a TON of work involved in succeeding as business owner. Successful people do what most people don’t want to do. They work 16 hr days, look for deals, develop a network, unclog toilets, clean out houses, rack their brains on how improve day by day etc… Punching a timeclock is a path of least resistance. It certainly takes a lot of responsibility off your mind.
Now I know people who have worked their whole lives as employees and made good financial decisions like staying out of debt and putting money away for retirement. They’re very happy now because they’ve retired early and have money and their health to enjoy themselves. They’re not really millionaires but they have enough to do the things they want to do… Its not always about haing what you want, but wanting what you have… This whole post makes me want to go read “The Millionare Next Door” and “The Richest Man in babylon” again… :biggrin

14

I read those two books when I was 16, then the next day I made a account on this site. Those 2 books probably changed my life… both of them.

Like tommorow, I startt a new job… I work 10 out of every 14 days, every other weekend, with horrible hours. ( 2 pm - 10:30 pm). I only make 18 a hour. Most people (even grownups) would love making 18 a hour, but man, working for somebody else has me in a funk. I hate it. Im working at a Nursing Home now, and its honest work… but man… if I werent working towards anything more than just getting next weeks paycheck, ide be even more depressed about my situation than I already am.

I would much rather work 16 hours FOR MYSELF than 8 hours for somebody else. I want to call my own shots, instead of listening to a superior. I would feel like im accomplishing more by working for myself.

15

But man is right. I worked at nursing home as the manager for housekeeping and laundry. Watch your ass because those places are breeding grounds for abuse, alcoholism, drug use, backstabbing, lying, and general unpleasantness. I ended up resigning from my position after 5 months due to the political backstabbing, and hate mongering. I wasn’t even an employee of the nursing home we were contracted out to do the work. In the end you have to realize that most nursing homes are filled with people that can’t cut it anywhere else with a few people that actually love the work. Get everything in writing and never talk to anyone else alone unless you absolutely have to. I have never met a more miserable bunch of people in my life, which was sad because I really liked the residents and they always gave me glowing reviews to the nursing home staff and to my boss.

Good luck, btw what type of nursing are you eventually planning on getting into? My cousin’s wife just got her RN and is currently acting as an at home nurse for several clients until she has her 2nd baby. After that she is planning on hospital, government, or family practice work while she finishes her nursing degree. If you want to continue climbing the nursing ladder you’ll eventually need to get your bachelors or masters in nursing. In the KC area hospitals and choicer positions are starting to screen out all nurses that don’t bachelors or a masters in nursing. Not sure how things are in your market but just thought I’d share what little info I know about it.

16

Furnished,

I’ve paid my dues in this business for 20+ years and have learned a lot about making money in real estate.

Flipping houses is without doubt the fastest way to make money in large chunks. However, this method REQUIRES large chunks to do it in any type of VOLUME.

Forget buying houses off the MLS. You’re competing with EVERYONE…Investors, home buyers, newbie’s…EVERYONE!! Buy the time you buy it, rehab it, and resell it…There is very little MEAT left on the bone.

The way to do it and get the best returns is to buy directly from the owner.

That’s the FIRST HALF of the equation…The second half is RUNNING THE NUMBERS.

I always know what a property is worth BEFORE I buy it…You need to know 2 values…

The rehabbed value, and the AS IS value. In my experience over a 20 year period, it is USUALLY more profitable to resell these properties AS IS!!
This completely flies in the face of conventional investment theory. But the reality is this…

It is infinitely easier to place the property on the MLS and let the feeding frenzy begin.
I have these properties cleaned out completely. I have the overgrown trees and shrubs trimmed because believe it or not,even INVESTORS have a hard time SEEING potential. So you SHOW it to them!!!

You’re not selling to a homeowner that needs BANK FINANCING, HOME INSPECTIONS, APPRAISALS and the other ENDLESS list of bullsh*t retail buyers need.

AND…by NOT rehabbing the property you leave the buyer a lot of OPTIONS.

If you remember only one thing remember this…

DO NOT do this the way everyone else does it…Use your IMAGINATION and think about your TIME vs your RETURN. Rehabbing is a pain in the @ss. Buy your properties right and you can make the same profit in 2 weeks that your BUYER will make after 6 months of non stop work.

17

I could probably do what your talking about Jake, just on a smaller scale, when I get like 15K (which Ill be at here in like 3 months or so).

No reason why I couldnt buy some place for 10K (they are around here)with 5K left over for costs, instead of waiting till I get 30K, and buying a place for 20K-25Kish.

Then… i could quit my job even sooner and actually have fun working! score

18

fdjake,
Yes, I am getting it. I actually have learned to have a knack for turning a piece of garbage-looking little house into something that is appealing. Otherwise I couldn’t get the rents I need in order to keep all these balls in the air.

I am happy not to contemplate rehabbing because I don’t do that, I just supervise it and boss people around. I think I have an eye, but not the hands.

I’m looking forward to my new eye-training when I get back from my cruise. I don’t have MLS access as far as sold comps. Looks like I need to cultivate a Realtor. And I will need to cultivate the mentors on this site.

Furnishedowner

19

Hey Hoosier. I just want to make this point. Its great that you want to be in business for yourself. Your nusing job should help get you there. But I want you to remember where you are when you’re at work. The people you care for have had their lives reduced to a half of a room. They have to share a room with a person they may/may not like. The food is awful. Many need help to the things we take for granted like eating, bathing and toileting. Many have family members who rarely visit and the staff are pretty much their family… When you come in to a room with a “this is just temporary for me” state of mind, it will show up in your care. I’ve seen it too many times in healthcare. Don’t be that guy. Take a good look at the pictures they have on their walls. It will help keep your perspective that these people had lives before the nursing home. Give nothing less than your very best in your nursing and REI and you’ll be a much happier man, while making a REAL difference in the world… OK, I’m off my soapbox… :biggrin

20
In my experience over a 20 year period, it is USUALLY more profitable to resell these properties AS IS!! This completely flies in the face of conventional investment theory. But the reality is this......

It is infinitely easier to place the property on the MLS and let the feeding frenzy begin.
I have these properties cleaned out completely. I have the overgrown trees and shrubs trimmed because believe it or not,even INVESTORS have a hard time SEEING potential. So you SHOW it to them!!!

You’re not selling to a homeowner that needs BANK FINANCING, HOME INSPECTIONS, APPRAISALS and the other ENDLESS list of bullsh*t retail buyers need.

AND…by NOT rehabbing the property you leave the buyer a lot of OPTIONS.

We are in a bargain based market. Everyone is looking for a bargain on RE right now. You need to BUY at a bargain price and you need to SELL at a bargain price. People on the MLS aren’t dumb, most know a deal when they see it. Think of the MLS as Ebay, if you list something at a good price, you’re gonna attract eyeballs and bids (offers).

I think unless you have a reliable GC, with a good crew, rehabing isn’t the way to go for the small time investor. Buy it at a great price, sell it at a great price. You make money and your buyer makes money.

Now, I know many are stacking up houses and holding them to sell when the herd goes crazy buying everything again, but I just can’t stand the idea of dealing with tenants and all the other BS that goes with owning houses. I’ve been there and would rather not return, but I also know that snatching up those gems right now is key. This is something I keep strugling with…how are you guys who don’t like landlording dealing with this?

FO, The MLS is a great tool, but you don’t need it starting off. Go search the town’s accessor’s database and look for sold properties in the area you are interested in.