Question about my girlfriend's interest in MY 1st house

Random Ramblings
1

I just bought my first house (accepted offer moving to inspection next week, closing on Feb 17th). I currently live in an apartment with my girlfriend of several years. She will be moving in with me. Here is my concern: there is a lot of “OUR” house talk as it will be a house that we both live in. I dropped the 20% DP, I am the only one on the mortgage and ultimately I am the only one responsible for making sure it is paid for. I want to make sure that IF we ever went our separate ways, she could not sue for having “Contributed to the payment of the property” and thought it was partially hers.

We both split the rent currently in our apartment ($350 + $350) and the mortgage + Taxes are less than our current rent since I put the 20% DP. I would like her to kick in some $ since she doesn’t actually have rent anymore and is getting to live in a much better/bigger house. She didn’t/doesn’t/won’t have the financial ability to buy a house for another few years so going in together on the property A.) wasn’t possible and B.) Wasn’t something I wanted to do anyways (it’s practically marriage).

I guess I just need a little guidance.

2

go to an attorney and have a antenuptial agreement drawn up specifying whatever you feel is fair and have her sign it…trust me…

3

Even if we are not engaged and don’t plan on it soon?

4

listen…its good that you are being realistic about the possibilities of the demise of your relationship…it may not happen and you may live happily ever after…There may be some people who say forming such an agreement may be viewed as a negative on the relationship…I say there is nothing worse than a scorned woman…You can explain to the attorney your current relationship status and have the agreement tailored in such a way…You dont have to be married or engaged but you want to safeguard your investments…Piece of advice…While you are it make sure to add in clauses in the event you do get married or engaged as well…Such as any income or investments made in each others OWN name is considered seperate assets and not jointly shared etc…Go all the way if you are going to do this …Express to the attorney what your ultimate goals are in regard to safeguarding your money and assets and FUTURE earnings,income,investments as well…An attorney has to understand what your goals to structure a proper contract/agreement for the matter…This may run you anywhere from $1500-$2500 and I advise you to make sure you use an attorney who is well versed on this matter…Dont just hire any attorney because they are cheaper…There may be a day in the future when this contract gets tested by a court or another attorney…Make sure its rock solid…Last piece of advice…Dont let her to tell you the BS that she loves you and would never make you sign something like this blah blah blah…Safeguard your assets or when the end of the relationship comes trust me she will expect some of your hard earned money…You will then wish she signed it…There is nothing like a scorned woman…Remember that…

5

Milwaukee,

If I recall correctly, this is the same girl you’ve had an 18 month relationship with who had debt problems.

If you consider marriage a business relationship, where yours is yours and hers is hers, then I guess a pre-nup is in order as long as she feels the same.

If you consider marriage a lifelong commitment whereby two are married as one, holding nothing from one another, in good times and bad, sickness and health, etc. then I think its a bad idea.

Rookie was right when he said “There is nothing like a scorned woman”… only problem is you are getting ready to have one who feels as if she is scorned before you even start out, and women have long memories… you’ve been together for almost two years, and whereby, she is thinking the beginning of a married life, I guarantee you she will think you are thinking about the end already, which plays all sorts of head games on a women or man for that matter… thoughts like “he wants all the perks without the commitment” will creep into the situation, and even IF she agrees to it, it will ALWAYS be in the back of her head (and yours)… what do you think will be in the back of her head, right or wrong, when you present this? “I’ve given myself exclusively to him and been waiting for almost two years and NOW when we are starting to talk marriage, he wants a pre-nup?” I’m a guy, and if it were me, I know I would ask that… be prepared for the floodgate of questions she will most likely have for you…

Think about it… if you are questioning the circumstances of the end of the marriage, if she not then justified in questioning your long-term commitment to it? Do you think this would make her feel MORE confident or LESS confident in the relationship? IMHO, a prenup gets you thinking about what’s best for YOU (what YOU get) and not what’s best for the BOTH OF YOU…

Add to it, in addition to a prenup, you are viewing the women you love, with whom you are thinking of marrying and spending the rest of your life with, and have spent almost two years with… as a “renter”? You don’t think that will make her feel like an outsider? It sounds like you are ALREADY separating yourself emotionally and financially from her… Careful here, she may cynically decide to charge you “rent” for other things… :shocked

It sounds like you two are starting out in life, whereas, you are more ahead of the game than she, so unless you are already a millionaire with a thriving business, with assets in place that need protecting, my vote is to carefully consider the idea of a prenup… if handled incorrectly, it can lead to more problems than it solves…

Best of luck… and marry the girl already! I mean you’ve been together almost two years, and even if you proposed TODAY, a wedding takes time to prepare, etc. and you will most likely be together at least THREE years before you actually tie the knot…

I would encourage you to give ALL of yourself to your relationship, emotionally and financially… hold NOTHING back… you can’t take the money with you, but you can have a great ride along the way making some great memories in the process!

6

What a stupid woman. She thinks you are a couple and you think she is a renter with perks.

My suggestion is that you simply tell her that it is not “our” house, and in fact, you are moving without her.

I agree that a prenup is always a good idea, but that it should protect both parties. You want no commitments of any sort. Set her free to go and find someone who will actually care what happens to her.

7

Some good points from PO and tatertot but I have to add some things also…First off everyones case is different…As was mine when I got married…I had prior built up my assets and needed to protect my assets in the event the marriage didnt work out…I know its probably not the best way to go into a relationship but I dont think what I have worked for and accumulated prior to my meeting this person should be exposed to litigation in the event my marriage didnt work out…I did go further and seperate my income and investments,future earnings and make her waive her right to spousal support etc in the event of a divorce…And I did the same in return…My wife is a senior partner at a law firm so she makes a few bucks herself but all the same a marriage is a business relationship…I dont mean this is an insult because my own parents never had prenups,or antenuptials etc…But they also had very little money when they got married and built their life and financials together throughout the marriage…So if you are talking not a large sum of money then I dont think these contracts are suitable…PO is right that you should start off on the right foot but with %50+ of marriages ending in divorce nowadays I ask how can you NOT have something in place for a possible ending of the relationship…And fwiw I have a great marriage and love my wife very much…After signing it ,I have broken the agreement by putting real estate in her name only and other assets…What I learned by having this agreement is that my wife couldnt care about my money and that she signed it in a way to stick it up my a$$ so to say…If a woman has a problem with signing this agreement she is bad to begin with…There are too many women out there today who expect to get a free ride through life and sit back and become baby making machines and not work that derives income to provide for the house…I worded it that way because being a mother is considered a career and a worthy one at that…All the same I dont feel any woman deserves assets that were gained or created prior to the wedding…And if you can sneak in some more powerful clauses to compound your position I say why not…I know too many people who decided not to have these contracts and wish they had…Everyone knows some poor sap who got divorced only to have his underserving ex clean him out of more than she deserves…You will find out how powewrful her love and devotion is to you by having this contract…My wife and I have forgotten all about it and after so many years together I would NOT hold her to it…But the luxury of having it gives me the right to dictate what I feel is fair in the event the marriage ends…Not a judge,not her,not anyone but me…Sorry but Im a businessman and you are listening to a person who made it all myself…Nothing was given to me,not a penny…I guess if I grew up around money I wouldnt feel this way but the journey to success was so hard that I want to protect it any way I can…All the same the agreement also protected my wife and her assets,her 401k,her income and now she has plenty more than the contract dictated…This type of contract is a just in case contract…And I disagree that you have to set her free etc…See what happens and go from there…

8

To clarify:

We are not engaged. Nor do we plan on it anytime soon.

Tatertot:

I don’t expect you to fully understand the situation based on a paragraph. Let’s just say that my girlfriend of over 2 years whom is older and makes more money than I do has racked up a LARGE amount of debt (first marriage started this) I have been sacrificing and subsidizing to help. Including but not limited to : full financial review/planning/budgeting, using MY cash to buy-out her auto loan, me selling her my car at 1/3 it’s value, sacrificing and selling off all my toys to have cash in the bank, etc…

I do love this girl. However, I think I might be the rare and “taboo” person who looks at what problems can come down the road due to ignorance of the all too unfair practices of our judicial system. Seeing as half of all marriages end and most include litigation, why wouldn’t I ask some questions to not get me in a bind later? Again, to clarify; we are not even engaged. We just live together in an apartment.

Now, my question isn’t about my relationship at all. Never have been never will be. My question was a little guidance request about the situation. IF we break up AS boyfriend girlfriend and she was living in the house that I bought alone, CAN she claim any of the house as hers IF she paid me $ monthly to live there?

9

Milwaukee,

“18 months going strong, living together and all around happy, yet I will not consider putting the ring=contract on her finger until some of this bad debt she has is sorted out.”

The above was from August 2009 and this is where I got the impression of marriage from… additionally, people who have lived together and stay together once someone buys a house, and they both reside in it, inferences of marriage are understandable (hence the “OUR house” comment from her)… my mistake… since you are not planning on getting married (although I have a hard time believing that after two years you haven’t even discussed it), on to your other question.

You already hinted that she has an expectation (i.e. - “OUR house”) and being that you shared and apartment/rent before, and by asking her to kick in money towards the mortgage, without you drawing up a lease stating that she is indeed “renting” from you, and you have not clarified otherwise, a lawyer would definitely make a case. After all, any money she gives you goes toward the mortgage and equity in the house. If she is giving you money specifically for the mortgage, without a lease, she has rights… Without anything in writing, she can say anything, and she has the canceled checks to prove it… what do you have? At the very least, you need to be clear to this women that you view this as YOUR house not OUR house… be prepared for what follows is all I’m saying…

After two years, and no plans to ask her to marry, and you are only focused on what you can get out of the relationship money-wise, and definitely have a commitment issues with this women (which may be entirely valid), IMHO, it’s time to come clean and be very clear on your intentions. If not, legally or not, you are heading for problems…

But, why buy the cow, when the milks for free, right?.. Good luck… :shocked

P.S. - Another thought is that IT IS YOUR HOUSE… you get all the benefits of ownership… From what you have written, she is a guest is YOUR house… Is the love you share with this woman worth $3-4K per year until you do get married?? Or do you plan on charging her “rent” after being married also?..

10

Milwaukee
To answer your question that you posted…I do believe after 7 years of living together she can claim common law which may expose you to splitting your assets…I would advise you to meet with an attorney to find out your options…It seems like you feel quite responsible for this woman…

11

Last two posts, thank you.

I am not one to try to get something from someone when I didn’t earn it. I am very steadfast about protecting what I have worked very hard for though. After seeing my Father get burned twice I am very cautious with relationships+money.

I am not wealthy. I don’t have much but what I do have was truly earned. I have a hard time with accepting that love = picking up half the bill of financial irresponsibility. If I believed in this I would go max out my cards, have some fun and look for someone to fall in love with who would bail me out.

I am not bailing her out. Really I can’t financially. I can however, guide her and teach her how to become more responsible with her money so that down the road, it CAN be “OUR” or “WE” instead of me/mine. If she can do this then we can move forward. If not, then the problems will escalate later since I would save and “mind the farm” while she “blew the wad”. That equals conflict. What’s the biggest thing a married couple fights about typically? $, kids, ???

In my opinion, I am simply looking at potential problems and trying my best to plan ahead. No different than insurance on a house. Your home burning down is highly unlikely. A relationship ending at some point is almost a sure bet.

12

You have lived together a couple of years. You have shared expenses for your “family”. You are buying a house after a couple of years of living together and she is going to help make the mortgage payments.

So the answer is "yes. She is going to feel that she has an interest in the ownership of the house. A judge might or might not agree with her.

I suggest that you get it cleared up before you move and make sure she understands that it is your house and you have no intention of sharing it with her. Make her sign something that states that she has no interest in the ownership of the house and will never claim any interest.

From where I am sitting, it sure looks like you are already planning on throwing her out in the gutter with the garbage as soon as you lose interest in her, with nothing for her to show for the years and $ that she has put into the relationship. Don’t be surprised if she feels the same way.

But maybe you can figure out a way to explain it to her that makes her think you are absolutely adorable. I wish you the best of luck.

13

Tatertot…???

What $ has she put into anything?

Are you a woman scorned?

What are you talking about?

FYI, my mortgage payment is $304…I think I can handle that. Why so low? Large down payment made by me.

Do I want to pay for the mortgage, tax, utilities all by myself? nope. I would love some help. I don’t want that help to come with one gigantic string attached IF it doesn’t work out. She has $350 per month freed up due to this investment I made. Am I an ass for thinking I could get some help or should I just fully support her now so you don’t think less of me.

14

Milwaukee,

So what are we talking about here total… mortgage, taxes, utilities, etc. about $500? So half would be $250?

The way I see this is this is the women you say you love… why not tell her to put that money towards either a joint savings account (maybe for a wedding… great motivator) in leiu of “rent”, which you will both share in at some point in the future, or have her put it towards her debt, which will alleviate your concern about her debt while at the same time help her get on track, which is the same as you as a couple getting on track…

In either case, if she’s not there, you still have to make the payment, so why not think of this as a way for you two to connect as a couple. A shared sacrifice towards a future together…

If this is the woman you plan on spending your life with… I encourage you to think past your own self-interest and rather the interest of you two as a couple and your future. You both have invested the past couple of years together… think of the $250 as an investment towards your future together… rather than a short term gain of $250 month…

Actions speak much louder than words in this case no matter what you decide to do… Good luck… :beer

15

Milwaukee,
My advice is do what you feel is right…You cant live off the fruits of love so dont pay much attention to those other postings…In the real world it takes money in a currency form to pay bills…And the last thing you need is to play parent and financial advisor to your current gf…Have something drawn up and maybe she will get annoyed and leave,or maybe she will be thankful you were so upfront and sign…Its a win win for you…You have already witnessed what happens when these thngs arent taken care of in advance with your dad…2x none the less…Learn from his mistakes and move on…If she is a decent girl and truly cares for you she will sign with no questions asked…That will prove that she isnt just some mooch out for free ride…If she goes ballistic ranting and raving she is playing you for all its worth…And if she does sign I bet in time it will make your relationship stronger and you will grow closer and eventually you will want to give her more…Trust me…My wife taught me a valuable lesson by signing the antenuptial like she did…And she didnt even argue or say a word about…She said simply Im marrying you for you not your money…Made me feel like a heel sort of but I had to protect myself and at the same time I really truly saw where she stood…Now 10 years later we have grown so close…Like I said if she doesnt sign or bitches about doing it dump her and dump her fast…

16

Milwaukee,

“Am I an ass for thinking I could get some help or should I just fully support her now so you don’t think less of me.”

You’ve already said she makes more money than you… So, if her debts get paid off, and you do it together, who do you think will benefit ultimately? Think about it, spouses who are married to a doctor (in most cases) go into a relationship with a HUGE amount of debt… but they also look towards the POTENTIAL… Look to what your GF’s potential is, not what her challenges over money are… As a COUPLE, you can do far more than you can do as an individual… My guess is if you asked her to contribute financially, it wouldn’t be a question, as she had done previously… but if you approach her and say in essence - “this is MY house” do you think she will feel welcome? Do you think that will be bring her closer to you in any way? All it would show, is that after YEARS together, there is a wall between you that she cannot pass, and it will reinforce her money issues and her challenge with it.

Being that you’ve said you would think about a ring when her debt is taken care of, do you not think it would be better to say something along the lines of - “I’ve been thinking of the future. You know I am concerned with your debt challanges (don’t say problems), and even though this is technically my house… I put the down payment down, etc… I eventually want us to share this as our home and when we get married, get it put in both our names… so where we used to share the rent, I am wondering if we can use that money towards a common goal we can share as a couple, like savings (maybe for marriage), or maybe half towards savings, and the other half put extra money towards getting rid of your debt. This will put us in a better position for when we do get married down the line. Rather than starting off in debt, we can start off on the right foot. So being that I bought the house and it is in my name, and I am ultimately responsible for it, whether the market turns or not, I will make the payments for it. In the meantime, so you don’t have to worry about rent, we can use the money you would have had to use for rent towards something that benefits us as a couple. Let’s open a JOINT savings account, and we’ll use the money for???”

To make sure things stay on track, do both of your bills together… This will show what you are putting out each month and she will see how you are doing, while at the same time be motivated to do better because of it… Love and Respect go hand in hand…

Just some thoughts…

RE: RookieNYC

“You cant live off the fruits of love so dont pay much attention to those other postings…”

Well, as an adult, you can certainly choose what postings to pay attention to without having to be told… it’s one of the advantages of having multiple POV’s… You will ultimately follow what you feel is right anyway…

“In the real world it takes money in a currency form to pay bills…”

Noone says it does not… the difference is in how you treat the one you say you love… You can use the $250/month to draw you closer and work TOGETHER towards a common goal which brings you both closer (whether that is debt-repayment, paying for a marriage, vacation, etc.) ALL of which you BOTH benefit from…

It’s not like we’re saying let her take the money and go party with it… :rolleyes

“And the last thing you need is to play parent and financial advisor to your current gf…”

In that line of thinking, you should look out for you and only you… If you love someone, you do it not because you have to, but because you want to… If you see your GF struggling trying to pick something up, do you just sit there and watch her struggle, when you know you can help? After all, the last thing you need to do is play parent and technical adviser on how to pick things up to your current girlfriend, right? :rolleyes Noone is saying do it FOR her, we are saying do it WITH her…

“Have something drawn up and maybe she will get annoyed and leave,or maybe she will be thankful you were so upfront and sign…Its a win win for you…”

Interesting concept of losing the woman you love that you’ve spent that past years with over MONEY, of which you’ve already said your are not rich (paraphrasing), being a “win-win”… Quick way to end up alone… NOONE is perfect… I’m sure you have your shortcomings also… her challenge is finances… You gain MORE from being at her side to HELP her (not do it for her), than you do in thinking that a prenup insulates you… Just look at the Rich and Famous who can afford the BEST lawyers and prenups… watch what happens to them…

“You have already witnessed what happens when these thngs arent taken care of in advance with your dad…”

Yes, and you are not your Dad… I’m sure you have other examples in your life, where the OPPOSITE is true and you can learn from their SUCCESSES… you are your own individual… Don’t limit your life on such linear thinking…

“If she is a decent girl and truly cares for you she will sign with no questions asked…”

Interesting definition of a decent girl… someone who does something, no questions asked… think about that… Then, conversely, the definition of a decent guy would be to drop it, no questions asked…

“That will prove that she isnt just some mooch out for free ride…If she goes ballistic ranting and raving she is playing you for all its worth…”

Or maybe, she will be hurt that you are defining your relationship only in monetary terms… FYI, you don’t have to give her a DIME if you don’t want to…

“And if she does sign I bet in time it will make your relationship stronger and you will grow closer and eventually you will want to give her more…”

If you don’t ALREADY feel you want to give her everything, a prenup will not change that… relationships are give and take… one party is usually stronger in one area than the other… yours happens to be the finances… you can choose to continue to be there for her, or you can separate yourself emotionally and financially from her…

“Trust me…My wife taught me a valuable lesson by signing the antenuptial like she did…And she didnt even argue or say a word about…She said simply Im marrying you for you not your money…”

Milwaukee has already said he is not rich, so they are at a point where they are starting off life together… the two are not analogous…

“Made me feel like a heel sort of but I had to protect myself and at the same time I really truly saw where she stood…Now 10 years later we have grown so close…”

And would you keep anything from her at this point? My guess, from your comments, is no…

“Like I said if she doesnt sign or bitches about doing it dump her and dump her fast…”

If you love her, that is HORRIBLE advice… Love is what you are willing to give and do for the other through your actions, NOT what level of protection you glean from it…

Good luck on whatever precedent you choose to set for your relationship… :beer

17

Milwawkee, I get the impresion that you have no intention of bringing this issue up to your girlfriend. It appears you’re looking for someone to tell you that you’re protected and don’t have to get a contract set up by an attorney. Let me ask you this. Have you talked to her about this? How does she feel about it? You should have this conversation BEFORE you move into the house with her. She deserves to know what you’re thinking. Then and only then should you proceed with or without her. It appears that even though she makes more money, she also has more debt. Her buying power is lees than yours. Ask yourself these questions.

Where would she be today if you hadn’t “sacrificed” in order to help her with her debt situation? Would she have been able to stand on her own two feet without you? How is she doing currently with her bills? Are you in control over her finances or is she being responsible on her own?

I don’t see how you can proceed with her AND protect your assets without an contract. Good luck to you.

18

Interesting question and posts.

PosOutlook, nice little speech. Only I would drop the last couple of sentences and instead add,

“Therefore, honey, I need to have you sign this rental agreement. You can pay me $250 a month rent and I’ll put that into a separate account at the bank. If we end up deciding to stay together, we’ll have something for the future. If not, you’ve gotten cheap rent, and enjoyed this house with me. What do you say?”

Furnishedowner

19

I disagree. NEVER let your girlfriend know what you are thinking.

20

“I disagree. NEVER let your girlfriend know what you are thinking.”

Sounds like a great plan for closeness and building a relationship together…