Ohh jeez... PostiveOutlook booted?

Random Ramblings
21

Wpear (or whoever),

Instead of concerning yourself with a poster that CLAIMED he was a PROFESSIONAL REHAB CONTRACTOR but at 2 YEARS plus and COUNTING had yet to COMPLETE an 800 sq ft COTTAGE rehab…

Maybe THIS isn’t right…

ROOKIE…No longer posting here because of the never ending BS with Positive

FDJake…On his way out the door because arguing with idiots gets OLD

ChrisW…No longer posting in this section because of Positive

Furnishedowner…Not posting as frequestly as usual.

4 members gone or on the way out because THEY DID what YOU suggested…THEY CHOSE not to participate because of Positives rants.

Just these 4 comprise the following…

A person successfully running and GROWING a Real Estate Rental business that thinks outside the box over and over…and doing it all during the worst market in years (furnished)

A Stock and option trader with real estate and financing experience that built himself a 7 figure trading account and who has helped NUMEROUS people here with his insights. (Rookie)

A mortgage broker with years of experience, insight and contacts from various parts of this country. (ChrisW)

A real estate investor/contractor/stock investor/ that can be a pain in @ss but has been told he occassionally brings something of value to the place (me)

That’s what you almost LOST here…Because THEY were about to exercise THEIR right to LEAVE…These people BRING something to this place…Something of VALUE…REAL LESSONS that they OPENLY share…FOR FREE!!!

If Positive stayed…

You would have been left with a self proclaimed PRO REHAB CONTRACTOR that has been working on his termite infested 800 sq ft FIRST FLIP for OVER 2 years now because he wants to “LEARN”
I might be messed up, but where I come from a PRO REHAB CONTRACTOR has DONE the LEARNING PART already…That’s why he’s ON HIS OWN!!!

This guys story had more holes in it than that termite infested DUMP he buried himself in…(Like he said…It wasn’t MY fault…The INSPECTOR missed the termites. :bs :bs :bs

NEWS FLASH…When the TERMITES have eaten your foundation to the point where the FLOORS are caving in…YOU DON’T NEED and INSPECTOR…ADDITIONALLY…Does ANYONE here know a REHAB CONTRACTOR that would let a HOME INSPECTOR anywhere NEAR his investment property??? NOT ONE of the guy’s I know would even CONSIDER letting some “home inspector” do HIS due dilligence for him…These guys get IN THERE themselves…It’s THEIR money at risk if they are BUYING the property…A Professional contractor that needed a HOME INSPECTOR??? For what??? Give me a freakin break…I’ve done this work for 20 years…Don’t insult me.

We’re all BETTER off without Positive…

Think of the LEARNING he’s doing TODAY instead of being in front of his computer… He can actually LEARN rehabbing and PEST CONTROL now!!!

22

This is a privately owned forum. If you want totally free speech, you are welcome to go and open your own forum and allow anyone to say anything they like. That’s your best opportunity to enjoy free speech.

You don’t get free speech here, you get the forum owner’s rules, and they include no personal attacks and no name calling, and the forum owner has my approval (as if he cares). I don’t hang out on forums where anybody can say anything they want to. There are too many unpleasant trolls out there on the internet trying to cause fights and unpleasantness, and if you let them say anything and everything they want to, they will close a forum down.

23

Or at the very least drive people away. Which is what was happening here. I spend A LOT of time on this web site. I can’t tell you how much I have learned from people on this site. Not to mention other business relationships that I have formed. I may sound like a total homer here but the vast wealth of information contained on this site is far superior to anything else I have found out there and trust me I post on a lot of different sites, but this is my home base. So for someone like PO to drive me away is very difficult yet is was happening.

24

One thing to be aware of is that if I have a problem with you I will not discuss it in public. I will PM you. I will not boot you as long as you make efforts to cooperate.

We want traffic, but we also want the experience to be reasonably entertaining.

25

Blue…

You guy’s do a great job here…This site is a wealth of information and I enjoy the banter…Smart people are interesting and there’s lots of them here.

26

mdhaas,
My first reaction, too, was that wpear WAS posoutlook. I’ve probably internalized his sentence structure and run-together thought pattern. After having read so much of it. It struck me as the same.

Or maybe just twins separated at birth?!

Furnishedowner

27

Something very familiar there.

28

There are a lot of smart people on this website. That is all I am saying.

29

:beer

30
My first reaction, too, was that wpear WAS posoutlook. I've probably internalized his sentence structure and run-together thought pattern. After having read so much of it. It struck me as the same.

Or maybe just twins separated at birth?!

LMAO Do you really think that it may be PO or a member of its family? It is probably a family member’cause I’m sure that PO doesn’t have the stones.

Wow, kinda like Mom and Dad, Maybe his wife trying to stand-up for him…go figure :anon

31
I don't plan on being dragged into this, but I don't uderstand your reasoning based on what I've been reading. You must have a different definition of free speech than I do - free speech includes ranting, and from what I've read, alot of posters on this site rant. On one hand you say nobody was reading his posts anymore, but then say that his posts were extended, disjointed and unreadable. If noone was reading his posts, how is it harming anyone or how is he not playing fair and sharing? It seems he was following the rules and the others weren't playing fair by not following the rules, so the answer is to boot him? My feeling is you let people say what they want to say and people can read what they want to read. If it's BS it's BS, but we are all supposed to be adults. Maybe you saw something I didn't, but I never saw the moderators warn him he was going to be booted, which is why I think people are questioning this, and rightly so. The analogy by the moderator christopher w of yelling fire in a theater doesn't work, because there is no danger in not reading the poster positiveoutlooks words. You can continue to defend the moderators on this if you want to, but I think people know this isn't right. I don't know, is this post too long?

Peace :biggrin

Could it be? :rolleyes Mods should easily be able to check the IP and ISP info to see.

Anyways, wpear, I don’t think it has anything to do with freedom of speech, but it was about respecting others.

Think of it this way, if someone allowes you into their home along with other guests and all of a sudden you start to rant, reel them into arguments just for the sake of arguing with no real purpose or point. You are at one point asked by other guests and warned by the owner to stop your behavior, or just leave. You ignore what has been asked of you and continue on until you are just kicked out by the owner.

If you want freedom of speech and to cause drama and arguments you are free to go to your own home and do that. Invite your own guests and you can say what ever you want, it’s YOUR home. In your house you make the rules and you use your right to freedom of speech the way you see fit.

This is why PO needs to just start his own blog or forum if he wants to run by his own rules.

This is how the real world works.

32

Let’s just let him/her go on with their life. As FDJake said, they will now have plenty of time to finish that Rehab.

33

Personally, I don’t think PO should have been booted. Several other members have BLATANTLY violated the forum rules about personal attacks and weren’t booted. No-one is forced to read the posts in a given forum or by a specific poster. To say that someone that was posting within the rules is driving people away is nonsense. Furthermore, the continuing attacks against PO because he hasn’t completed a rehab is absolute nonsense. Whether or not he has completed a rehab has absolutely no bearing on whether he should be able to post or the credibility of his posts on non-real estate related issues (in the Random Ramblings section). If the standard is that only people who have done a rehab are allowed to post, this will be a mighty lonely forum as all newbies would be banned. To me, this isn’t a freedom of speech issue, it’s an issue of fundamental fairness. PO was continuously attacked by people who were violating the forum rules and yet HE was booted.

In addition, to say that Rookie hasn’t been posting because of PO is blatantly wrong. Rookie has told me on multiple occassions that he hasn’t been posting because of FDJake. Are people to be banned because their posts are too long? If so, at least we should state the maximum length of posts. Are people to be banned because they haven’t completed a rehab? If so, then proof of a done deal should be provided before newbies can participate. Are people to be banned because they violate the forum rules about personal attacks? Too late, we CLEARLY ARE NOT DOING THAT and members who have been banned in the past are back doing it again! Let me be clear, I am not advocating banning anyone, but banning PO for doing absolutely nothing was just plain wrong.

Mike

34

Mike,
PO wasnt banned for doing nothing as you say…He was harrassing others constantly and brought nothing to this forum of value…He is opinionated and relentless…He answered back the moderators on numerous occassions and spewed his venom to very successful investors here who actually bring something of value to this forum…This may be the Random Ramblings section but as you know we are business and wealth minded individuals…I know he had your back constantly but how you cant see that he had to go is beyond my comprehension…This is guy who frowned heavily upon success and how to achieve it…He constantly questioned others but believed whatever came out of your mouth…I cant recall one single post where he wasnt fighting or debating with someone…And yes I did have it out with my now friend fdjake on a few occassions but even as nutty and street fdjake and I are we had enough sense to squash it and move on…We had enough business sense to learn from each other and move on to help others and forge a friendship out of it…We were grown up about it and didnt keep it going…Fdjake brings something of value here…I feel I do as well…But I will tell you this now,if PO is brought back Im out of here…You can deal with him and his non-business sense and constant debating and his cut and paste ridiculously insulting posts…Because I wont…Wpear/Positive Outlook go ahead and post…Because your boy is back to get your back.

Why does someone who could care less about real estate or anything related to wealth creation choose this forum to debate others in…It may be a Random Ramblings section but its on a site/forum that is full of business minded people…Why were %99 of PO/wpear posts in the Random Ramblings section…???..Because he loved to harass and debate and break ball$…This isnt the debate club at the local auditorium…Why cant you see that Mike?..I had enough of his gotcha and point proven posts…Maybe I’m in the wrong place…By allowing people like PO/wpear here you are condoning turning this place into Romper room…He brings nothing of value here nor is he ever inquisitive about techniques or tactics to achieve wealth or build cashflow…He is a relentless debater…

35

I second the above. And I too, was starting to avoid posting because PO would be all over it dissecting. It was time. There will be other good posters joining in when one person doesn’t hijack the conversation. Good job by the moderator. Thanks.

Furnishedowner

36

Better watch out FO, maybe they’ll decide that socialists or global warming environmental wackos are the next to go.

Or if we had listened to Rookie when FDJake wasn’t his new friend, FDJake would have been banned.

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

37

propertymanager,
That is a famous quote–World War II? Niebuhr?

Then it was Nazis. But now I’m confused, who now is THEY? I was much more worried about THEY when THEY could water-board, and THEY could send people overseas to be tortured. THEY could let a human being rot in a prison for years without trial. THEY shredded our hard-won human rights and our international standing. THEY put our servicemen and women in harm’s way, in countries that hated us.

It sure seems more scary when THEY is US.

Furnishedowner

38

“THEY” is YOU FO! You and others like you didn’t like PO and now he is gone. Maybe next time, someone won’t like your socialist leanings and then YOU WILL BE GONE! It’s a very slippery slope. It would be different if PO violated forum rules, but he didn’t. The people that have constantly, blatantly violated forum rules are still here, one of which who is back after already being banned once. Something is not quite right about that!

39

Mike,
PO wasnt banned for doing nothing as you say…He was harrassing others constantly and brought nothing to this forum of value…He is opinionated and relentless…He answered back the moderators on numerous occassions and spewed his venom to very successful investors here who actually bring something of value to this forum…This may be the Random Ramblings section but as you know we are business and wealth minded individuals…I know he had your back constantly but how you cant see that he had to go is beyond my comprehension…This is guy who frowned heavily upon success and how to achieve it…He constantly questioned others but believed whatever came out of your mouth…I cant recall one single post where he wasnt fighting or debating with someone…And yes I did have it out with my now friend fdjake on a few occassions but even as nutty and street fdjake and I are we had enough sense to squash it and move on…We had enough business sense to learn from each other and move on to help others and forge a friendship out of it…We were grown up about it and didnt keep it going…Fdjake brings something of value here…I feel I do as well…But I will tell you this now,if PO is brought back Im out of here…You can deal with him and his non-business sense and constant debating and his cut and paste ridiculously insulting posts…Because I wont…Wpear/Positive Outlook go ahead and post…Because your boy is back to get your back.

Why does someone who could care less about real estate or anything related to wealth creation choose this forum to debate others in…It may be a Random Ramblings section but its on a site/forum that is full of business minded people…Why were %99 of PO/wpear posts in the Random Ramblings section…???..Because he loved to harass and debate and break ball$…This isnt the debate club at the local auditorium…Why cant you see that Mike?..I had enough of his gotcha and point proven posts…Maybe I’m in the wrong place…By allowing people like PO/wpear here you are condoning turning this place into Romper room…He brings nothing of value here nor is he ever inquisitive about techniques or tactics to achieve wealth or build cashflow…He is a relentless debater…

Seeing how you failed to address anything that I posted the first time I figured I post it again…And I dont think its proper for a second tier moderator to be addressing other forum members as socialists and environmental wackos…Very inappropriate…Moderators should be carrying themselves at a higher standard that us mere forum members…FurnishedOwner took the high road and didnt address nor even acknowledge your vicious verbal attack…Now I see why you miss PO/wpear…

40

Just in case anyone here was interested…

A few months back Rookie and I got into a very heated debate (I can’t even remember the subject) but we’re both very opinionated, sucessful people and we both stuck to our guns…One thing lead to another and it went over board…Rookie doesn’t back down and I know I p*ssed him off because I don’t back down either. BUT…

ROOKIE…was the bigger man…He sent me a PM and just said…“What are we doing? We both know how to make money, what the h*ll are we arguing about?”

I RESPECT THAT…Tremendously…and the guy was 100% right…I KNOW he doesn’t agree with me on a lot of topics…THAT’S A GOOD THING…Unlike POSITIVE who just YES’D Property manager to DEATH with every post…I WANT people to point out other views…I’ll argue my point…But I’ll also LISTEN to THEIRS…Something POSITIVE was INCAPABLE OF DOING!

He was NEVER WRONG and he KNEW EVERYTHING…

Mikes entitled to his opinion…I think Mikes biggest propblem with me is simple…

I don’t drink his KOOL AIDE…I have my own opinions and I am not afraid to disagree with him on MANY topics. Mike thinks this countries best days are OVER…I DO NOT…Mike thinks we’re headed into TOTAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE…I DO NOT…Positive was like that little dog in the cartoons…He’d run around yappin at everyone, then when someone took a good shot at him, EXACTLY AS MDHAAS POINTED OUT…He would run and hide behind Mike and point fingers…It was PATHETIC!

Positive was a NEGATIVE force here…

THAT is why he got the boot…and RIGHTLY so!!!

Mike…I disagree with you on some subjects…But I do respect you…You are sucessful in a very tough business, your book on rentals is the best I have ever read, and you are a very smart person. YOU BRING VALUABLE INSIGHT TO THIS FORUM…INSIGHT THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE PROFITABLE FOR MANY PEOPLE.

PROVEN PROFITABLE are two words that DO NOT apply to ANYTHING Positive ever wrote here…

And for the record…The ONLY reason I would return to his UNFINISHED INVESTMENT property is because it DID NOT MAKE SENSE…It was BS…YOU KNOW it, and I know it…Who in their right mind takes 2+ YEARS to rehab an 800 sq ft COTTAGE as HOUSING PRICES FALL??? AND…continue to CLAIM they not only had REHABBING experience…BUT WAS A PROFESSIONAL REHAB CONTRACTOR?? :flush

Mike…If this guy gave you that story OUTSIDE of this forum…YOU’d CALL HIM either a LIAR or a complete JOKE…You know it, I know it, and MANY other PRO’s here spotted this too!!! MANY OTHERS…You might not want to ADMIT this here…But the FACT is…The STORY did not make ANY sense what so ever…From an economic stand point or a Professional stand point…YOU of all people know the biggest RISK you take when rehabbing a property is that it is UNOCCUPIED and at greater risk for THEFT, FIRE, VANDALISM, ECT…I’m not even going to get into PROPERTY TAXES, INSURANCE COSTS, HOLDING COSTS, LOST INTEREST, and other EXPENSES.

It was NEVER about DOING a first flip…It was ALWAYS about LYING about it!!! When I started to add up what he claimed to have done on the house VS what he spent NONE of the numbers were even close…THAT LED to ME being asked to PRICE A KITCHEN for him on this project??? :banghead :banghead :banghead

Mike…That is a SCREAMING, YELLING, BEGGING FOR YOU TO LOOK…signal that this guy had been BSing everyone…Look at it…

*2+ YEARS for a PRO REHAB contractor to knock out an 800 sq ft rehab

*The SAME Pro rehabber misses a TERMITE INFESTATION so bad the floors are collapsing then goes on to blame the HOME INSPECTOR???

*When asked WHY it’s taking 2 years to do a job that would take ANYONE, even a complete NEW GUY, 8 months??? His answer…I WANT TO LEARN??? What’s he doing at CLIENTS HOUSES MIKE??? LEARNING there too??? If this guy WAS a Pro that project would have been knocked out in 3 months TOPS…Especially in the DEAD of WINTER during a RAGING RECESSION!!! I guess Positive had the ONLY thriving rehab business in the USA last winter when BANKS around the world wouldn’t loan money for CARS never mind HELOC (the LIFE BLOOD of the rehab business)

Come on…DOZENS of members here didn’t buy this story…Of all people YOU should have seen it CLEARER than most.

*When HIS numbers were added up…THEY DIDN’T ADD UP.

800 sq ft cottage + 2years and still unfinshed + “pro rehabber” = SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT HERE!!!