If you don’t let people know HOW MUCH you bought it’s MEANINGLESS!!

If we’re going to do this let’s REALLY DO IT…

How many SHARES did you buy?

How many CONTRACTS did you buy/sell??

How MUCH did you pay??

and…WHEN did you buy them???

Telling people you bought ACME shares at $1.00 is GREAT…BUT…Did you buy 20,000 or 20 ???


The REASON is simple…If I own just 20 shares of ACME and it turns against me, I can hold it because it’s a WORTHLESS POSITION…If on the other hand I own 20,000 shares???..Well… Well…NOW WE’RE SEPARATING THE MEN FROM THE BOY’S.

If we’re gonna do it…Let’s do it RIGHT!!!

Fair enough. I will put the amount of money and number of shares on all future trades. Unfortunately, my trades may be deemed meaningless by you, because as I’ve said several times before, I trade as a hobby. Most of my trades are a few thousand dollars max. On the good side, it’s not meaningless to me and it wouldn’t be meaningless for a lot of people on this forum. If I can make an extra thousand or two a month from my hobby, that’s good enough for me.


I wouldn’t consider that meaningless at all.

I DO consider it meaningless if we don’t know how much your buying and selling. Just because without amounts… The MENTAL part (the most important aspect) isn’t fully disclosed.

There’s no right or wrong here. You have a system that works well for you. I have one that works for me. I think in the end…THAT is the KEY to successful investing. I can usually tell how a person trades by their personality. The ones who LAST are the ones who FIND a way to trade that fits THEIR personality.

Mike…Your a LAND LORD…That’s EXACTLY what your doing with your Stock investments. Playing for consistant monthly earnings. It makes sense!!! Hopefully we BOTH learn a little from each other here and make a little more cake over the long haul!! :beer

Mike, I would LOVE to make even $1000/mo. from a hobby. I’ll be starting small, but I hope to learn enough to increase that amount over time. Perhaps down the road I’ll be trading the like big dogs! :beer… as a hobby of course… :biggrin

Why mess with the stock market when you can buy VERY cheap rental properties? I don’t know about your areas, but here in Raleigh, I’m seeing 2% deals on the MLS!! People are scared of real estate, I ran into a friend the other night at the airport, he was sorry for my losses and was wondering if I was still “hanging in there”!! I tried to explain to him i’m buying for income, not speculation, but I doubt if he really understood. Point is, i’m going against the crowd. I’m buying like a mad man right now, I’m about to go under contract with another multifamily. It’s a four unit building, for 48K!! Will gross at least 1900 a month when i’m done with it. I know this because I own the building right next to it, which is basically a mirror image of it. I’ve been waiting for times like these since 2006 (when I got into this stuff and joined this board).

I’m very grateful for this board and people like Mike and Pete. You can’t learn this at my local REIA.

I think FDJake (pete) would be preaching income properties right now more than ford if he was in that business.
I respect his opinion on stocks, I just wish I had the balls for it. I guess my personality just doesn’t fit stocks.

Well that is my 50 cents due to inflation and drinking


I agree with you. My main focus is on real estate. I just trade for fun.


My hat’s off to you guys…REALLY.

There is NO WAY your going to lose with that plan John. The best part is at some point this carnage will be a distant memory and you can start selling those properties at HUGE profits IF YOU CHOOSE TO.

That’s where this stock education comes in. Both you and Mike are building incredibly strong financial foundations right now. I did this exactly the same way during the last bust in the early 90’s. I purchased rentals, held them until 2004-06 then sold everything (except the commercial) to people OUT BIDDING each other on insanely OVER PRICED properties.

The time to LEARN this stuff is NOW…I can guarantee you both just ONE THING…There WILL come a time in the future, were you just get sick of the never ending BS that goes along with renting SHELTER TO PEOPLE. The game plan for you guys should be to LEARN how to invest your own money NOW so you don’t end up handing a chunk of it to a thief like Bernie Madoff.

Mike is doing this EXACTLY the right way. I didn’t know what type of size he was trading until just today. He’s smart…He’s playing with FU money. He’s learning. I know he’s been doing it for 10 years…Hell I’ve been doing it for 20+ and I’m still learning.
What I have learned is this…When the right opportunity comes along…going in with a BIG NUMBER, at the right time, under the right situation…can make you more money than you’ve ever seen in one check!!!

John…It’s not about balls…You’ve got balls other wise you wouldn’t be dealing with drug dealers. What you don’t have is experience (with stocks) But…Your getting it bit by bit here.

Stay tuned…

I am so enjoying the give-and-take of you big dogs on your stock and property deals.

Someday I am going to start to fool with stocks too. Just spread toooo thin to tackle new stuff now.

I’m with you as this is more and more the time to buy. But how do you deal with a risk-averse spouse who says, “I’m not signing another deed, not now, not ever. We’ve got enough property; what if you can’t rent out another house, and chicken little the sky is falling…”?


Furnishdowner, Are you showing your spouse how successful you are? If she can see you’re making money, why is it a problem? I think its the hardest when you haven;t bought anything yet and the idea is scary to someone who is nervous about it. But if you can prove you’re successful, I don’t see a problem. Perhaps you can purchase properties on your own. I think that investors need to know how to invest in different asset classes. Perhaps you can start to build a stock portfolio with some “expendable” cash. I don’t know how many properties you have or how much cash they generate, but perhaps you can use some of those resources to get it started.

Furnished owner, I’ll be the first to admit i’m not really a big dog yet with only 15 units and two years doing this. Also I don’t know if it is a good time to buy property if your not in the low income/affordable housing sector. I think you typically rent to business type people right? I feel “conservatively” comfortable that the demand for my units will continue. I just rented an apartment to a burbs couple that had to downsize due to a change in jobs. I"m getting a lot more calls off of my craigslist ad than I did 6 months ago. I don’t think I had many tenants 6 months ago that even owned computers. What i’m trying to say is, I think the demand for Low Income units will be strong through this downturn.

As far as the risk adverse spouse goes, I am fortunate enough not to have that problem. I guess you could use a legend like Sam Zell as an example of what to do in these times, though I would leave out his tribune deal that went bad. Maybe he will write a book one of these days.

John-in-NC and phlemboy,
Property here is in the affordable range and I would like to be buying or looking. But I have too much unfinished work and business in front of me (3 vacant unrenovated units) plus ongoing tax and roofing projects.

If the market here crashes I can pull furniture out and rent unfurnished to lower-income tenants and still be ok. Just not as profitable.

My risk adverse spouse (a he) is following all the doom and gloom stories in the media, and therefore won’t even talk about investing. I was thinking it would be good to pick up some unfurnished apartments at fire-sale prices, and just rent them out. No rehab. No nothing. Instead I compromise by just paying down those debts and watch from the sidelines. But if a really good deal comes along…


I suppose that if the job market really tanks in your area, it could force people to move. I believe it happened in Houston after the oil business dried up. That could make a huge impact on vacancy rates. But if you buy them cheap enough and you have some recession proof businesses in you area ( hospitals, college, etc…) you could hang on and reap some profits when the economy improves.

By knowing the amount put in the trade we’re only halfway there…
If I have 100K invested in a stock (ie F :biggrin) it makes a big difference if:
My net worth is 10 million OR 100K

Happy Holidays & Great investing for 2009 :beer