The difference is…
If you miss the payment on your Ball Game tickets your kids still get treated by their DOCTOR.
Miss a payment to Dollar Bill’s company and YOU and your KIDS are OUT OF LUCK…
Come on…are you kidding me.
Still think this guy is worth defending???
You might want to read the SETTLEMENT PAPERS below.
http://www.freerepublic.com//focus/f-news/1936393/posts
If your worried about A-Rod…just don’t watch him…If your worried about your health care…that approach probably won’t work.
I assure you I am not defending this guy. I agree with you the guy is slim. But at the same time where does it stop? It won’t. The liberal/progressive way of thinking will continue to push to OVER-regulate and further control salaries in all sectors of business. I am just as irritated at this guy as I am a guy like Barney Frank. How is this guy basically in charge of our banking system when he doesn’t have a clue?
As stated earlier the governement and private sector could fix this together but I have NO confidence that will ever happen. This 125 Million bonus is 1/5200th of what the first step is toward national healthcare with the 650 BILLION the Obama Administration wants for seed money to start. Rev up the printing presses because that seems to be the solution to everything. Throw money at it and it will fix it.
How long has the Drug War and War on Poverty been going on now?
China is already pulling back on the purchase of our debt. Where is the money going to come from. Tax rate of 98%?
50% don’t pay taxes now. People who make more than 110K pay 71%. That is basically my salary at my full time job and I consider myself far from rich at this point although my real estate holdings do number 42 units.
I agree with you. I DO NOT think Goverment has all the answers.
I just think this ONE ISSUE…Health Care…goverment could put controls in that would make it harder for scum bags like Bill McGuire to literally STEAL money from citizens,subscribers, and businesses.
How many people who commented on this thread were even AWARE of how far McGuire went to obtain more and more for himself. And don’t think for ONE SECOND he gave that money back because he wanted to…He returned that money because he was looking a SERIOUS, SERIOUS JAIL TIME!!!
I am in no way in favor of Barney Franks policies. That dope almost single handedly destroyed Freddy and Fannie and went a LONG WAY to creating the sub-prime disaster.
McGuire is a crook! No doubt about that.
FDJake, we don’t have to try it to know that it would be a monopoly… and just like Social Security, etc. it will eventually implode on itself with the tax being raised more and more, and services being cut.
You’re right in that we haven’t tried the full-blown version here yet, but we already have examples of government run care in Medicaid, Medicare, etc. and the opposite would also be true in that you have no idea of whether it would work or not either. The difference is, once it is in place, if it is a disaster which all evidence (i.e. - other countries, our own attempts at govt. run healthcare, etc.), there will be no turning back! Once the government has it claws into it and put it into the tax code, do you honestly think they will EVER remove it, no matter how bad it gets?
As far as CEO pay goes, like I said, EVERY industry has it… healthcare is not unique. If, with all your investments, houses, stocks, everything, you make more than $250k/year, there are many people making 1/10th of that who think you are “rich”, so it’s a matter of scale. I’m sure the guy making $5 Million a year thinks the CEO making $127Mil year makes too much… But I guess greed is a factor for everyone… I mean you didn’t split the $40K 50/50 with the out of work electrician, because YOU wanted to keep the lions share… some would call that greed… you ALREADY have, he doesn’t and you knew it, but you wanted MORE… (BTW, I don’t begrudge you one penny)…
With regards to the gent in the unfortunate car accident, if he is in the situation where he cannot pay his medical bills, bankruptcy laws are there for situaitons like that… Two to three years later, he could still buy a house IF he lost the one he has (doubtful in bankruptcy). Before you say - “It’s not his fault”, we are in total agreement on that, but to have those bills removed without being responsible for any of it comes with a price… You’ll also note that they treated him even though he didn’t have insurance, and even though the evil CEO making lots and lots of money was still paid… Like I said, I also don’t see the benefit of a CEO making that kind of money UNLESS they started the company…
“Funny…I’m a SHAREHOLDER in a list of different companies…NO ONE…Let me repeat this…NO ONE…EVER…Has called me to ask what I thought of a CEO’s pay.” - yes, but as a shareholder, you have a right to attend the annual meetings and have it brought up… whether you CHOOSE to do so, is up to you.
“Miss a payment” - I don’t know where you live, but I don’t know ANY doctor that would cut off treatment for missing a payment…
The only way I could see a byrid working would be for the government to collect the money in the form of a payroll tax that is sequestered for that use only, and issue vouchers for people to buy their own insurance. This would be an opt-in system, so those who do not want to participate, don’t have to, but it would get the private sector competing for the money.
But that will never happen as they would never close an avenue of tax off that they could perpetually raise…
The DOCTORS don’t collect HEALTH INSURANCE PAYMENTS!!!
As for the guy hit by the druggie…
Oh well…That’s what bankruptcy laws are for…HOW COMPASSIONATE!!! BRAVO!!! Just glaze right over the FACT that this is EXACTLY what’s BRINGING nationalized Health Care to this Country. Scenerios where BANKRUPTCY is the ONLY alternative.
OK Guys - I removed all the posts that were nothing but insults. Let’s try to get back to the topic minus the personal insults! Thanks!
Brockovich,
I just read in Fortune Magazine that the current maximum tax rate is 35%. So you are probably NOT paying 71%. Does that make you feel better? I think the CPA said we had to pay 31% this year. We wouldn’t have money for even bread and water if we paid 71%.
Furnishedowner
I mean 71% of the tax revenues overall come from Americans who make 110K or more. Not my tax rate is 71%… although it could be soon!
Public vs. Private college… More students per class in public vs. private college… higher admission standards, better academia, really NOT an adequate comparison… this would actually be a great debate, but let’s not muddy the waters; let’s focus on healthcare…
This article from CBS News just RAMS home the point of how by putting the healthcare of the nation in the governments hands it WILL cost more, by showing how …
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/05/12/business/econwatch/entry5007862.shtml
“There’s little belt-tightening in evidence in Washington, D.C.: Counting benefits, the average pay per federal worker will leap from $72,800 in 2008 to $75,419 next year.”
This is dramatically MORE than the average healthcare worker… So, you can say you want nationalized healthcare, but explain how it will in any way cost LESS… Where’s the money going to come from?
Hi all,
I want to make a distinction between COSTS and PRICES. The mass media and politicians talk about controlling healthcare COSTS. COSTS are what a company incurs to produce a product or service. What politicians really mean is that they wish to control healthcare PRICES. Prices are what consumers pay for goods or services. PRICES are not arbitrarily chosen by companies, they are what they are because of supply and demand (market forces). To make PRICES go down, either COSTS have to be reduced or DEMAND has to decrease. With a socialized healthcare system DEMAND WILL INCREASE. Therefore, either PRICES to the Consumer/Taxpayer will greatly increase and/or quality of service will be greatly reduced or some combination thereof.
JP
Not necessarily true. There are many BUY your diploma private colleges out there with very lax admissions standards.
I am a far right conservative republican that supports health care. Wow, doesn’t sound like the conservatives on the radio, does it? Actually, I agree with most of what they say but have to draw the line here. I support health care for everyone as I am pro life. Not just pro life for babies but for adults as well.
I don’t think that someone should have something catastrophic happen to them and have to choose between death and financial ruin. With those two choices in mind, they have to choose financial ruin.
I am not saying health care for someone who has the sniffles. I am saying major medical with a relatively high deductible. High enough to encourage people to not use it unless it is absolutely necessary. Low enough to allow someone to pay off this debt within a year or two and be back on their feet without a tarnished credit rating or a lifetime of debt.
Those who want to see the doctor for minor issues can pay for it out of their pocket. When negotiating with a doctor, I have found rates significantly drop if it is mentioned that you are paying cash. A $75 dollar 5 minute consultation quickly turns into a $40 consultation.
I am going to let you in on a couple of things you may not be aware of as being issues within the health care industry. This is insider information that I am aware of and that I have not heard a word of from the mainstream media.
My father was a vice president of The Travelers Financial Services prior to their breaking up. Back when they were one of the largest insurance companies in the United States. He told me a couple of very interesting stories about the industry.
His first month or so that he was on the job, he was meeting with top executives of many of the other largest insurance companies in the country and the topic came up of raising premiums by a certain percentage. The insurance companies all agreed together to do so.
At this point he was afraid from what just happened. My dad was previously the VP of RJ Reynolds / Nabisco and if something like that ever happened he knew that he would be sent straight to prison for price fixing or collusion. So… upon returning to The Travelers he immediately reported to the president and said I can’t believe what just happened, they were all talking about raising prices and now I am going to end up going to jail. The president of Travelers laughed and informed him that there legally is an exception for insurance companies and this is perfectly legal for him to do so within the industry.
This was quite shocking information to my dad and when he told me about it I too was surprised that the government would allow this.
A couple years down the road the insurance giants were going head to head with the all mighty American Medical Association. The AMA has some sort of book. It’s kind of like a guideline of what is acceptable to pay. Got the sniffles and insurance companies must pay __ dollars. Got a broken arm and it will cost insurance companies ___ dollars. Well, the AMA decided to increase prices across the board to the insurance companies. The insurance giants were outraged at this and got together to decide how to handle this. They were fully aware that the AMA was controlling the supply and demand of doctors in the United States so they decided that they would threaten exposure and let the cat out of the bag.
They came back to the AMA with a response that if they even think about raising the prices they will drop the ball on how the AMA was only allowing a certain number of doctors graduate per year. Just enough to account for population increase and death of doctors. This tight control of the supply and demand is what has allowed health care prices to go through the roof and medical doctors to get paid 3 to 4 times the amount that doctors and highly educated people of other fields get paid. Even the doctors that simply treat people with the sniffles are flush with cash after a short term of paying off medical school due to this monopoly that the AMA has created.
They also promised that they will make sure that with the breaking of the news they will ensure that thousands upon thousands of highly qualified doctors get imported from India to the United States which will in-turn create an atmosphere of competition, and prices will drop regardless of what the AMA does due to the change in supply and demand.
Upon the receipt of this counter threat, the AMA quickly decided against raising prices to insurance companies and the issue was resolved.
Our health care system is broken. Broken in a huge way. It is broken due to non-regulation. I am not saying that we need government-controlled health care. I am saying that we need regulation in this industry. It is broken because the government has allowed a monopoly with the AMA and allowed collusion among insurance companies. Sure, there are many other reasons why it is broken. These are two glaring examples which have caused the American people to feel that even Government controlled health care would be better than what we have now. And it would be. When the government doesn’t enforce the laws we already have in place, or give special privileges to particular industries, things get broken and it makes it seem that the only option is more government control.
Regardless of the situation, people need health care and the system needs to be fixed. Health care costs are through the roof in all areas, from pharmaceuticals to hospitals, from insurance to doctors themselves. No one should face a financial ruin or death decision due to a catastrophic health problem. Lets get this problem fixed. Those who are profiting to a massive degree will go down kicking and screaming all the way and that is to be expected. “Plants” will be hired by the profiteers to appear on the media giving reasons why this is a bad idea. A campaign will be kicked off likely using scare tactics, etc. Regardless of what happens, we need to push through major medical for the people.
We conservatives need to open this topic up for discussion on ways to enforce the laws we have and use the free market system to decrease the costs of health care rather than canceling the idea out all together as if there is no solution that is acceptable.
Hooch, that was an interesting read…
If that is indeed the case, then you provided the answer already (i.e. - importing doctors, increasing competition would REDUCE costs). Not so much importing doctors, but increasing the competition.
My feeling on this would be if the government were to have any role across the board, it would be to collect the premiums from the people/companies and unlike Social Security, Medicare, etc. the money would be sequestered for this purpose ONLY. Then they would issue vouchers to people whereby they could use with whatever insurance company they want, thereby INCREASING the competition for the money. Any money that the CONSUMER could save on premiums/plans would be rebated back to them. It would become like other insurances that competition (i.e. - auto, life, disability,etc.) is prevalent in. Next thing you know, Geico will be offering a cheaper alternative, and they will be advertising for better coverage at better price. Their little money stack with the eyes will have a medical cap on it.
Once we move the emphasis AWAY from easy money for the insurance industry and make them WORK for it, they will look into alternative model like the Walmarts, CVS’s, etc. or different ways of providing the same care at better cost.
I don’t think that the lawyers and frivolous lawsuits can be overlooked as they are also a major cost factor. Once this is adequately addressed, malpractice insurance will also ease and costs come down. There will not be an excuse.
Another thought is that if you sue a hospital for malpractice, that part of the judgement should be the care needed to make people whole… at no additional cost.
Most people don’t realize that Social Security has collected MORE than it has needed every year since it’s inception. The reason it is a problem is that the money is not sequestered for that use alone, but is rather a tax that is used in the general fund, which is why it is always in trouble.
Hooch, the interesting thing about your post is that with government run nationalized healthcare, all the things you posted would be culminated under one roof… price fixing, supply chain for doctors, etc…
If there are laws that protect them the way you say, I would like to know the law, who signed it, and then work to eliminate it… any clue on the specifics of this?
Hooch,
Any additional information on that law you referenced above?
Also, someone shoot some holes in my previous post (with arguments, not insults which waster everyone’s time) so we can refine the concept…
IMAGINE…
A Health Care System manipulated by Insurance Companies and GREED. :shocked
Thanks Hooch,
You confirmed almost every SENTENCE I have written on this subject!!!
Our health care system costs are OUT OF CONTROLL because the BUSINESSES that run them got GREEDY. A Harvard education costs $50,000/year because they can GET it…A State run University runs under COST CONTROLLS set by the GOVERMENT and if you’re a resident, you’ll pay one FIFTH what Harvard students pay…I know a LOT of VERY successful people that graduated from State colleges and have done EXTREMELY well for themselves. It is NOT a junk system.
That system could EASILY work for health care. A State cost controlled system that is AFFORDABLE…NOT completely FREE…but MUCH lower in cost than current systems that operate on a profit based model.
Anyone who wanted the “HARVARD” of health care, could PAY EXTRA FOR IT. But EVERYONE would be afforded a low cost opportunity. Just like a State College education. We have a Goverment that ALREADY collects TAXES…That’s what they do…They collect money and USE IT to pay for BENEFITS for the citizens…By benefits I mean a national highway system. A strong and professional military, security for the elderly too old to work.
It’s ALREADY BEING DONE!!! Collect the money and SET the COSTS. If Dollar Bill McGuire can make enough PROFIT to RETURN $650,000,000 to United Health in STOLEN money…There’s PROBABLY SOME FAT THERE!!!
What “POSITIVE” is looking for is called the…
McCarran-Ferguson Exemption Act.
It allows Health Insurers to FIX PRICES and engage in elaborate price collusion schemes WITHOUT being charged with ANTI TRUST violations. EXACTLY as HOOCH described.
It sounds to me like Positive is moving towards a HYBRID system of sorts.
I have to admit…I like some of his ideas!!