Marketing to Probate and/or Divorces

For the past six months I’ve been going to the county courthouse, writing down all of the weekly probate and divorce filings, taking them to the title company to find out who owns property and sending letters to the ones that do. I have sent out a variety of different letters and have taken a variety of different approaches but have never received more than one phone call that didn’t really go anywhere.

Marketing to these types of sellers makes sense to me and it is a market that ‘everyone’ preaches about. However, for the time, energy and money I’ve invested I feel like my results should be better. Does anyone have any advice for me on either of these topics? What the letter should say? How many to send? When to send them? Should I be door knocking, calling? Postcards, doorhangers? Where have you had the most success? Books, courses, articles, online info?

Thank you.

You are highly limiting yourself. Why haven’t you tried going after expired listings, FSBO, …etc.

This isn’t the only market I’m targeting. I’m just trying to get more effective with this particular type of seller.

On a seperate note though, have you had a lot of luck with expired listings? That’s one that I haven’t had the time to approach much but seems like it would be effective. What is your technique?

Oh I see. What do you send those you market to? and how often do you mail to the same prospect? You sound like you have a good list, the next thing to evaluate would be the message in your postcards/letters and the frequency you mail to them.

As far as expired listings goes, I purchased couple of expireds this year and I get many calls from listed and expired listings but I do not market to them. Michael would be best to answer this question since he actively mail to them.

I’ve sent a number of different types of letters. Lately, I’ve been sending a letter to people filing for divorce that just states that my wife and I like their house and we want to buy it. I’ve tried addressing it to “The Owner of: …” to seem less suspicious as well as just putting the owners name(s) in the letter. (This resulted in one phone call that went through to voicemail. I tried to call back a few times and left messages but we never got in touch)

I have also been on the other end of the spectrum by addressing it with the name of the property owner and being very open and direct about the fact that I am an investor and that I want to buy their house. I’ve also tried calling these people. The results here have been poor as well. It takes a lot of time to track down the phone numbers and everyone I talked to either “wasn’t selling” or was very upset that I had called. Which is fine except it is not getting me any deals.

As for probate, I’ve tried sending to the executor as well as the deceased in hopes that it would land in the executor’s hands. I don’t think that I’ve gotten any calls using either of these approaches or any of the other approaches I’ve used in between.

Furthermore, I have tried mailing as few as one communication and as many as five communications (letters and postcards). Again, not much of a change in results.

After writing this I am very close to giving up on marketing to this type of seller unless someone here can ‘show me the light.’ I have taken information from a couple of different courses/books but I would be open to buying a book or checking out a course that someone can recommend just to see if I can glean any new ideas that might actually produce some results.

Again, thank you to anyone who can lend any advice or thoughts on this subject.

Hello Fadi… By the way, Happy Holiday Season to you.

I believe that determining who your audience is – the type of people who will be interested is your services – is key for preserving time, energy and expense. Thus, you want to attract as many real prospects as possible without wasting time, energy and money on the rest of the masses.

There are essentially seven types of prospects who will be interested in buying and/or selling a home. These customers can be labeled by the type of house to which they are connected:

FSBO
For Sale by Owner people are interested in saving money while making the most profit from the sale of their houses. Most are actually just interviewing agents for the job of selling their home. If you decide to buy their house, make sure you buy it before they list it in the Multiple Listing Service (MLS).MLS

Expired Listings
Expired listings are people who previously hired a real estate agent to sell their house within a specific duration of time. A typical listing period is 90-180 days, after which time the listing runs out, or Expires. Once the listing has expired, the home is no longer on the Realtors MLS and a majority of the time the sellers are very anxious to sell. Expired Listings are prime prospects.

NOD/TS
People in Notice of Default or Trustee Sale are a desperate situation. They have defaulted on their mortgages by not making payments for a minimum of 3 to 6 months. As a result, they must come up with the balance in full in order to keep their homes. They are typically given 90 days to come up with the money or the house will be foreclosed on and put up for auction. The time frame may be different, depending on your state.

Their interest is to sell their home quickly in order to pay off the mortgage before foreclosure. Keep in mind that most people in pre-foreclosure are in denial. So it will be up to you to get them to realize the reality of the situation.

Absentee Owners
People who rent out their houses have different problems such as bad tenants, tenants who fall behind on their rent, etc. It is very common for an Absentee Owner to consider selling when a tenant decides to move out.

For Rent
If a For Rent prospect’s house is not being rented to tenants, they are losing money each time they make a mortgage payment that would normally be offset by the income received from tenants. There are a number of angles you can explore in meeting this type of owner’s needs: the owner is undoubtedly familiar with the financial hardships they may incur if they are unable to rent their home or to keep it rented for a period of time.

Probate
This is the most difficult type of prospect to deal with due to the legal red tape involved in the probate process, while potentially having the second highest profit potential. These sellers (probate prospects) are usually the children of the house’s owner and they are more interested in getting money quickly than in dragging out the process. Take some time and find a good, reasonably-priced probate attorney to whom you can refer prospects for selling the house, and sometimes even hire on their behalf. The key in dealing with this prospect is to make the process of selling the house as easy as possible. These people will likely not know anything about the probate process and the more you know, the better your chance of buying the house because they begin to trust and rely on you. So, spend some time with the attorney to learn the time process of a probate-related house sale. Become an expert in your prospects’ eyes and you’ll close more deals.

Never lie to your prospect if you do not know the answer to any of their questions. Say the following: “That is an excellent question, and I will call my probate attorney and ask her for you.” When they feel like you are there to help them, they will follow you like ducklings follow their mother duck.

Farm
Farm prospects refer to a geographical/demographic area to which you direct mail. Let’s say you want to market to people with 2-year-old mortgages or houses that were purchased 5 years ago; they would make up your Farm prospects. Knowing what Farmed prospects want can be difficult, depending from where you’re cultivating your list. If you’re not sure, you can always go with the most common interests, such as “sell our house fast!”

Keep in mind that you cannot start off advertising to everyone. You simply do not have the resources, and I’m not just referring to money. Resources include capital, labor, knowledge and experience.

I focus on a ton on MAILING to the four main seller types: FSBO, NODs, For Rent and Expired.

A. FSBO and Expired - It is important to understand who your competitor is and that it is NOT your fellow investor. FSBO and Expired sellers are inundated by real estate agents trying to sell their services. Your true competitor is the real estate agent. With that understanding, you will want to take the same step Realtors take to become successful, which includes mailing and cold calling these prospects.

You must mail to these two prospects (FSBO and Expired) every three days until they sell, list their houses or die.

You’re going to mail three types of information:

• postcards that say,” before you list your house, I want to buy it”

• a set of letters explaining the advantage of selling to you

• a set of “Mary Letters” (see the “Finding Prospects
Who Want to Sell Their Houses” Module for a description of a “Mary Letter”.

Note: Your message is going to be different with each type of mailing, as different people respond to different messages. Using a variety of methods will increase the likelihood that the prospect will call you.

B. NOD – NOD prospects require a mailing every three days for the first 30 days and then every six days until they list, sell or stop foreclosure. It is important to put a system in place to track the stage of the foreclosure, as you do not want to waste resources. Your legal newspaper will list the cancelled NODs.

Mail the following type of advertising to this prospect:

 A set of seven professionally-produced letters telling the prospect about you and why they must call you.

 A set of four “Mary letters”, and if you’re in a Spanish-dominant market, you will need to mail your letters translated in Spanish as well.

 A series of postcards that state “I buy houses and help people in your situation.” Never put the word “foreclosure” on a postcard.

 A foreclosure booklet that helps them understand the process. This book is vital for separating yourself from the vultures these house owners are inundated with.

C. For Rent - Mailing to the For Rent prospects will have the least amount of return compared with the previous three prospect types, but they are still worth prospecting. They may be sellers and/or buyers. This type of prospect is either tired of being a landlord or is motivated and always looking for a good deal. You will find them to be a great source of capital.

Send to these prospects every three weeks. Why three weeks? Because they usually have more than one rental, and you want to catch them as the notice to vacate has just been given to them by their tenant.

Mail them two types of information:

  1. A series of postcards that says, “I Buy Problem Rentals Vacant or Occupied”, and “I will not bother tenants.”

  2. A letter outlining the advantages of L/O and advising them what you do and how you may be able to work together.

So, now you know what you are going to mail and to whom. Now let’s talk about making it a priority.

Although mailing is very important, it is time consuming. This system will take 2-4 hours a day unless you’re utilizing an automated one, which will cut this time down considerably. If you’re using a manual system for your mail, ideally it should be handled by someone else on a part time basis or by you after your normal hours of operation (8:00 am to 5:00 pm) or between phone calls IF YOU ARE NOT TAKING YOURSELF AWAY FROM YOUR PRODUCTIVITY. In the beginning, since you have nothing else to do, you will take the task, and later you will teach the task.

Thank you for the feedback and detailed reply Michael.

Thanks Michael, and happy xmas to you too!

Bellingham, how many are you contacting? 10? 100? 1000? it could be numbers game too.

It usually ends up being about 15 per week between the probate and divorces. You’re right it could be a numbers game but I’ve had so much better results from other campaigns that it makes me think that a) I’m going about things wrong with this niche or b) it’s just not a very effective niche.

Just a guess, but I would think that sending inquiries when a divorce is first filed isn’t the best timing.

When a couple files, she still thinks she is going to get the house and it hasn’t occured to her yet that she will have a mortgage payment that she can’t afford.

He still thinks that everything in the marriage, incuding the children, is his property and the judge will realize that and will throw her out without a penny and she will live under a bridge. Or better yet, she’ll cease to exist.

That’s not really the right time to offer to buy the house so they can split the money.

I would expect better results at the time the final decree is issued. By that time the judge has ordered the distribution of the property, so that is the time that the house is most likely to be for sale.

I think it might work better to be contacting the divorce attorneys. The attorney isn’t thinking he’ll burn the house down befoe he gives it to her, and the attorney understands that the house has to be sold.

Excellent point. Instead of mailing to the owners, get divorce attorneys and probate attorneys to recommend you. Develop some strong relationships with them so they can think of you at the right time.

Makes sense. Referrals are usually the most effective leads. I think I’ll give it a shot.

Is anyone else soliciting referrals or building relationships with divorce/probate/bankruptcy/etc. attorney’s? Any tips on getting the relationship started? Best way to maintain it? Best way to position yourself with that attorney? Just curious what has worked for other people.

Great feedback. Thanks!