Locating Cash Flowing Property

Hi All,

“Locating Cash Flowing Property” is the name of the game, wouldn’t you agree? My reality for the last 5 years has been that I’ve lived in a area that is not good for cash flowing property, and I guess I am kind of biased that there are any out there at all anymore… I have been a loan officer for three years in Bend, Oregon, and can say that I’ve seen a lot of real estate transactions done, and now am seeing a lot of hurting people. If you hadn’t noticed, Bend was on almost every national survey representing one of the hottest real estate spots in the US. Bend is a destination area, lots of vacation homes. When people invested in Bend in the last 5-10 years, they invested to flip, rather than cashflow. With a deadening market, this strategy has failed. For example, and average SFR in Bend, 1500sq.ft., 3bed, 2bath, would be selling around 300K. The renters market would allow for about 1200/mnth for this property. Far from cashflowing.

It seems that I am going to have to travel a bit to find the properties that make sense. I’m sure there are even some in Oregon.

What is your take on the national market, is there still a lot out there for the taking? All I know is my local market…

With Thanks, Robert B.

Yes, there is a BIG country between the coasts that is jam-packed full of cash flowing property, although it does take effort to find them in nearly every market.

Mike

Robert,

I was in the same position as you (I live in California) until I began seraching for property outside my state. I was able to buy a cash flowing property with an extremely high rate (12%) and high ROI (25%).

Cheers,

Yosef

I agree there is lots of cash-flowing property across the county, but if you are not local to where you buy the property, it will be very important to find people you can trust in an area that you invest in. First thing I would do is think of relatives or friends in areas that have cash flowing property.

There may not be cash flowing properties but you get to live in Bend!!! Think about it. People pay to come to what you wake up to everyday.

Check out FL, MN and AZ during your investigations.

You can find cash flowing properties in any state. I would sit down and think wisely about this. Who are you going to rent to? Who is going to manage your properties? What areas will you buy in? Remember, nobody will take care of YOUR properties quite as thoroughly as YOU. It’s absolutely achievable to own investment properties outside of where you live, but keep in mind where you buy and how easily accessible they will be to you if you wanted to drive by them at least once a month or what have you. I would choose an area and try to consistently buy in that area. It might get a little hectic having properties all over the state/ country that are giving you grief. You will have to learn who you can trust in a foreign area as well. Contractors, Management firms, Realtors, Investors, etc. It takes work, but it will be worth it in the end if you can stick with it! Good luck!
Chris

[[[[…the last 5 years has been that I’ve lived in a area that is not good for cash flowing property…]]]]]

Real estate in Bend has not cashed flowed for at least 50 years, and probably longer than that.

You have never been able to buy a property in Bend for 100% financing, or even for 20% down and be able to make it cash flow. If you want to be a real estate investor in Bend, you have to do it some other way than cash flow rentals.

Historically, Bend has steep price flucuations: high highs and low lows. The Californians come in and pay Californis prices and run prices up. Then they leave and prices go back down to what locals can pay. Rinse and repeat, over and over. Successful investment strategies can be formulated to work in that type of market if you actually realize that you have to custom adjust your strategy.

By the way, if you only have 5 years in Bend, maybe you don’t know. The only houses I’ve seen with big reductions in asking price are houses that were originally specifically built for out of the area investors.

Bluemoon has sure got that right: it may be a tricky market to invest in, but I get to wake up in Bend every morning.

I appreciate all your comments and suggestions. You are right on one thing, I am very lucky to wake up in Bend everyday. Sometimes I need reminded of that because I was born and raised here, lol.

Some of you have mentioned looking in other areas. What are some good methods of locating other areas as potentially profitably areas? Demograhics? How do I find good people in other areas? Obviously, have the internet is like having the world at your fingertips! And I sure once you get serious, you start making calls and asking for references, etc…

Thanks for your continued advice! Robert

If able to, I would try to locate an area that has an established RE club and possibly work it from there. You can meet a tremendous amount of credible people at these meetings that will tell you almost anything you would need to know about a new area; where to buy, who to buy from, who to stay away from and what kind of homes to buy.

Robert, if you want to invest in Bend, you have to work the cycles, keep more equity, buy for value.

You aren’t going to get any cash flow. Back when the mill shacks on the Westside sold for $20,000 they were renting for $75. So no cash flow even back then, but don’t you wish now that you’d bought a dozen of them at $20,000 and still owned them today.

If you go to fly-over country and buy something that gives you $100 a month, that is all you’ll ever get. Prices haven’t appreciated for 20 years and probably won’t appreciate for the next 20 years (which means you are losing value, adjusted for inflation).

In Bend, investing is a bit like surfing: you have to start paddling before the wave gets there.

I’m living on my rent money. How’s that possible when there is no cash flow? You have to keep more equity in a property.

Here’s how it works in Bend, very overly simplified version. Your figures will vary and it will take you longer to build your equity up to this point:

I find a house worth $300,000 that I can buy for $200,000. I put $100,000 down, and borrow $100,000. The tenant barely makes the mortgage payment, but at least I am not paying the mortgage.

Then I sell the house for $300,000, and I pay off the mortgage and walk away with $200,000 cash.

I find another house worth $300,000 thatI can buy for $200,000. I pay all cash for it. It cash flows.

I sell it and walk away with $300,000 in cash.

I buy 2 house worth $300,000 for $200,000 each. I pay all cash for one, and I put $100,000 down on the second. The first one cash flows and the second pays it’s mortgage.

I sell the first one and I have $300,000 cash. I buy two house, as above, all cash for one and $100,000 down on the other.

I sell the second house. I pay off the mortgage, and I have $200,000 cash. I use that to pay all cash for the nexrt house, which will give me cash flow. I sell that one and buy 2 more, 1 for all cash and one that makes it’s mortgage payments.

You might have to start with smaller cash amounts while you build it up. You have to have a way to support the first purchase or two.

It is not that easy to find a house with $100,000 instant equity, so you don’t buy and sell all that often-- but if you hold over 1 year, there are really nice tax advantages.

It’s really easy to find a house with $30,000 equity. The numbers work the same. It will just take you a couple of transactions before you have $100,000 cash to work with.

In this market, sellers are scared, so you should be abe to purchase larger amounts of equity.

If you like to gamble a bit and can buy and hold (and it is a gamble), I keep one in Romaine Villiage, right on the edge where it is outside the HOA. You can’t currently place a frame house on those, but there are rumblings about changing it. I think when the Winco Center goes in and the parks are in, the restriction will be lifted.

In the meantime, my little old mobile in there gives me an income. If the change goes through that allows frame bult, I will make a killing. If not, it has gone up in value nicely, anyway. That one is my big gamble. Normally, I don’t gamble. I am very conservative with my money.

I am waiting to see what the market does. If it takes a tank, it is time to buy, because it is a normal cycle for this area. So you buy on the way down, and then you wait patiently.

If you are doing buy and hold, never buy anything just because it is cheap. Buy properties with solid value and you will weather the cycles much easier. If you have to settle for less equity to get mountain views, you will still be better off in the long run.

If the market is going up, you can buy cheap properties and then get them out of your ownership BEFORE the market tops out and starts down again. The less desirable properties lose value first, ;ose it quicker, and lose a lot more percentage of value than the desirable properties.

Thank you for the information thus far. How do I beggining building a network “outside” of my area without having friends and family to chose from?

Robert

To build a network outside of your area, it’s easy! Use the internet. Get on the phone and call various professionals you look up on the Internet. All you need is a real good contact in an investor friendly title company and go with referrals to other people. Start advertising on craigslist.org for various services and talk and ask!

Rob

Picking a bunch of people for your “team” off the internet sounds like an invitation to disaster. If you’re really going to invest long distance, then I would go there and spend some time meeting people in person.

Good Luck,

Mike

I would never invest out of state…never

Hello all, I have some reservations about investing outside of the state you reside in. I live in NJ, have 6 properties in Florida and it is nuts. Some of them actually think they don’t have to pay rent anymore. What is this world coming to? Thank God I have family in the vacinity, but you know, its a hassle everytime I have to pick up the phone and ask the family for some assistance.

Good luck and really think about this.

Hello All,

I am new to this forum but not to Real Estate investing. Lets just say I have had my fair share of set backs and successes. In regards to buying rental properties in another state, “Do Not Do It.” I don’t care what type of tenant you have, they all need a hand holding. Property mangement companies will not look over the property the way you think it needs to be. Case in point. I bought a 16 unit apartment complex in Nashville about 2 years ago and I lived in California at the time. Great deal on the property but needed major rehab. Fortunately I already had a number of tenants in the place to assist with the mortgage and monthly enxpenses. What caused all hell to break loose was the lazy property management company that claimed they knew how to deal with Section-8 tenants. I would get calls all hours of the day and night about things being broken and rents not being collected in a timely fashion. I ended up flying to Nashville every other month to deal with the crap and we have not even talked about the rehab work. In the end, I moved to Nashville and took over the place on my own and gladly fired the property mangement company. I will never forget what the property manager said to me when the crap really hit the fan, “One can really lose thier shirt if they don’t know what they are doing.” I about wanted to smack the wench bag for the comment considering she claimed she knew what she was doing with regard to the type of tenants I had. Today the place is cash flowing $2000 a month and that is after expenses. Not bad for an orphan…