I suspect drug activity(crack cocaine?) in upper Detroit flat, what should I do?

Rehabbing, Fix and Flip, Rental Properties
1

I was doing some work on the lower unit, and saw some activity that looks suspicious of drug activity from the upper unit.

I smelled what I can only described as a chemical like, sweet odor, from the upper unit. Is that what crack cocaine being smoked smells like?

I also saw some street kids going in and out, and meeting others on the corner, and making a quick hand off while passing - which I suspect is a drug sale. I’ve seen most of them across the street, and they are squatting there in a bank owned (FNMA) house. But now they are coming and going into my upper flat. (I don’t live there, btw).

I did go out on the front porch, and when the four of them saw me, they stayed on the corner, maybe discussing if they should go back into the upper flat, or not, since I was standing there. I left because I was getting all agitated worrying about this potential drug problem, and what I could do, but I am pretty sure something is at least being smoked, and sold by these guys.

They may even be cooking something up there, as I heard someone yell from the upper front porch that they were ‘cooking’, and had to get back in so their stuff didn’t get ‘flat’! Maybe this is what that sweet, chemical, smell was?

The upper was rented to a single mom. She has a girlfriend living with her qho moved in later, and is not on the lease (which I didn’t contest when she told me about this.) They both go to school during the day, which is when I saw this drug activity.

I don’t know what to do next. Whatever I end up doing - I don’t want to endanger myself.

I thought about saying nothing to tenants, and just going down to Detroit police, and see what they say, in the hopes of them busting them red handed, and me remaining anonymous.

I thought of telling the girl tenant I saw these guys from across the street coming and going, and nothing else, just to feel her out to see if she is (a) aware and against the drug activity, or (b)aware and in cahoots with the drug activity, or (c) if she pretends to be unaware of the drug actiivty - in order to see if I have an ally or foe in her regarding that drug activity.

If she were in cahoots, then I’d be left with either evicition, or reporting to them to the Detroit police - and then going for an eviction if they busted them, thinking that an arrest would enable me to be use that arrest to show illegal activity for an eviction. (I’ve never evicted someone, this would be my first time. So I’m not even sure that would be the best way to start an eviction. They’ve been late on the rent, but get caught up within weeks, so I’ve let that slide.)

But once I tell her I suspect/know of illegal drug activity, then I open myself to possible retribution against me or the property if I file eviction, or the police do show up soon after I tell them I suspect drug activity.

I’m also not real sure the Detroit police would respond. I’ve heard stories of Detroit police never even showing up when called.

I was thinking of taking pictures, but other than me knowing these druggies were documented on my camera, I’m not sure what use the pictures would be.

Anyone have any good advice about how to best proceed, or have experience with Detroit police regarding drug activity?

Thanks in advance …

2

Call the police and tell them the situation. If there’s nothing illegal going on, there’s nothing to worry about. However, if they’re doing illegal activities and your house ends up burning down, your insurance may deny your claim due to illegal activities. If they’re convicted, you’ll have a better case of eviction for illegal activity. But I think you may get better/quicker results if you can evict them for non-payment of rent. If they’re in jail, they may miss the rent pmt. “Propertymanager” has a good trick of handing the tenant a long list of violations and being rude about it. At the same time, he demands the rent money. They usually say " NO!" and then he evicts them for non-payment… :cool :biglaugh :banana :elephant

3

I’m with PB on this…call the police and descride the smell and activity to them. They can bring the dogs thru the common areas and, if the dogs get a whiff, they will alert. That, along with your testimony, should give them enough probable cause for a warrant. You might want to consider some real legal advice on this matter.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV. Your mileage may vary depending upon your specific model and driving habits/conditions.

Keith

4

mnalep - I’m from Detroit also and I’ve had people advise on this situation.

First I hope you lease has something in it about illegal activities. If not make sure it does next time. In short, yes calling the police and reporting the drug activity is you’re best bet.

I worked with another investor a few years ago who was an attorney and he informed me that I should also report tenants for drug activity, especially if there a children involved. Yes Detroit police are notorious for there slow response (if any). Document all of you’re actions and stay persistent.

Most importantly DO NOT LET IT SLIDE! That is the problem with Detroit in the first place. Also my I ask what area the property is in? East, west, main cross streets?

5

mnalep,

First, this is a bad situation. I have had extensive dealings with crack addicts, because I take over distressed properties that have drug dealers already occupying the building on a frequent basis. There is some danger in dealing with crack dealers and many of them are carrying guns. In addition, having drug dealers in your property is almost a guarantee that you are going to have a lot of damage when you get your rental back. This will only get worse the longer they are in there. You will also have a lot of damage if the police do a drug bust on your property. Those concussion grenades can burn large holes in the carpet and that battering ram doesn’t do anything good for the doors and jams. In addition, the police often do significant damage tearing things apart looking for drugs.

Here is what I do almost every time (again, I’m not suggesting that you do this). On the day the rent is due, I confront the tenant about the drug activity and tell them I want them out. I tell them that I WILL be evicting them AND calling the drug task force UNLESS THEY LEAVE IMMEDIATELY. Then, I ask for the rent. They will be VERY MAD and will refuse to pay the rent (criminals are STUPID) and then YOU’VE GOT THEM! Have no further contact with them. You can then file an eviction for non-payment of rent, which is the quickest way to get the scumbags out! I start the eviction and follow it through until they’re out. If you haven’t done an eviction before, GET AN EXPERIENCED REAL ESTATE LAWYER to help you (at least on the first one). You can NOT afford to screw this up!

You can expect for some of these people to have a lowlife, legal aid lawyer with them in court. If they happen to be a woman or a minority, they will charge discrimination. They often also claim that the house is not habitable. Expect a real show in court. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt - BUT I’VE WON EVERY SINGLE EVICTION!

If you do something like this, you might want to take someone with you. If you are licensed to carry a gun, that is also a good idea for self protection. People on crack and/or meth can be violent and unpredictable.

If you don’t feel comfortable with this and you have the tenants on a month-to-month lease, you can simply give them the appropriate notice (30 day notice?) that their lease is being terminated. If they are on a year lease, you have made a BIG mistake and will have difficulty evicting them, even if they are busted for drugs.

If you don’t want to (or can’t do) any of the above, then I would go talk to someone significant at the police station (like a Police Captain or Police Chief). Tell them what is going on and try to arrange a drug bust. In my experience, this can take many months (sometimes more than a year). Even if the police want to do something, they need evidence to get a search warrant and arranging undercover drug buys/gathering intelligence takes time.

Good Luck,

Mike

6

It sounds like it may be crystal meth. Easy to cook and very popular now a days. Good luck, and be careful whatever you do - trying to confront it or get in the middle of it is not worth being shot or killed.

7

rontayan,

Hi. To answer your question, yes the lease includes language that “Lessee shall comply with any and all laws, ordinances, rules and orders of any and all governmental or quasi-governmental authoriities affecting the clenaliness, use, occupancy, and preservation of the premises” I think this should cover the illegal activites issue.

There are children in the premises.

What actions are you speaking of - that I need to document?

Also, the property is on the west side, near Michigan Ave., and Central.

Have you done evictions in Detroit before?

8

propertymanager,

Hello. Thanks for all that input.

The situation with the lease is that it was a 1 year lease, from July 06 to July 07, so it has run the one year already.

It is now a month to month, per the terms of the lease, my ;ease states: “If the lessee remains in possession after the natural expiration of this Agreement, an new tenancy from month-tomonth shall be created between Lessor and Lesse which shall be subject to all of the terms and conditions hereof except that rent shall be due and owing at 550 Dollars per month and except that such tenancy shall be terminable upon thirty (30) days written notice served by either party.” So I could at any time give them 30 days notice, and not even mention I suspect any drug activity, just to get them out. (I don’t know what I would tell them, maybe that I just want to sell the place, or rent to a friend or something.)

They also have been paying rent late the last several months. For example, I’ve only received half of this months rent, and it is already 4/29. They promised the other half by this Friday, 5/02. Then I know they’ll be late for May, as the lease state all rents are due on the 1st of the month. So I’d have leg to stand on to evict them for nonpayment.

I would like to avoid feeling afraid to go there, as I do need to fix up the lower unit and get it rented. BTW, I do not have a CCW or a gun, or even a dog, to take with me when I go there.

I am thinking about going down to the police station, as I would rather they go in when things are happening - maybe I can tell them when that is when I smell dope and see them coming and going - versus them just busting down doors and ripping the place up looking for drugs. But I’m not sure Detroit cops would operate like that.

I’m not even sure that the tenant knows this is going on, as she was away when I saw this activity going on. I’m thinking of calling her, and not mentioning drugs at all, but letting her know I saw several people coming and going, and thought she might want to know that, and just see what she tells me. If she says something like she know and does not care, then she is problably aware of drugs and is involved. If she were to seem shocked and angry, then maybe she is being used also, and together we can figure out how to keep the druggies out - maybe the first step being she throws out her female roomate and the boyfriend that I think is involved. Of course, I realize this might be wishful thinking on my part, in my attempt to keep rental income from someone I thought almost 2 years ago would be a good tenant.

I should also mention that the lower unit was just vacated. The lady there got tired of the ‘drama’ in the area, as she put it, and she had been there for several years.

Propertymanager, I assume you avoid 1 year leases?

9

Phlemboy and kdhastedt, Hi. Thanks for the input also. I am torn between just going to the police, or first seeing if my female tenant seems to have any knowledge about what is going on.

I thinking that if she has no involvement, then she should want this drug stuff to stop also, and maybe she can just throw the guilty parties (her roomate and the boyfriend) out.

If I just go to the police, this could be easier if the police respond, and arrest them for more than a short time, and don’t destroy the property in the process. I’m worried they’ll bust doors, and the bad guys will be back on the street and in my house in a matter of days. Is that a real possibility? Then I’d really have to worry about my safety, and stay away from there and the repairs and renting I’d like to do, for fear of reprisals. That is why I’d like the police to act without my testimony. Normally I don’t mind telling people what I think, and asking for what I want to see happen, but with druggies, that could cost me dearly.

10

stevie-o, If crystal meth is something that is cooked, and smells like a chemical sweet odor, then maybe that is what it is. I was guessing about the crack, as I really don’t know much about it, or the meth for that matter.

11

mnalep,

I get the feeling that the tenant knows what’s going on. If you can sense something is wrong without being in the apt. She has to know about it. If the cops were to raid, I’m sure they’d find drugs ( if there are any) in common areas of the apt. This would implicate her regardless. The police can arrest and get a conviction without you. As far as an eviction for non-payment goes, I think you made a mistake by accepting partial rent pmts and letting them pay late for several months. You’ve set a precedence. That’s not to say you should’nt evict for non- pmt. It may be tougher and take longer. DEFINITELY get a lawyer on board for this one. This problem will not go away on its own like you’re hoping. You have to take swift and decisive action NOW. The other tenants are paying close attention to how you’re handling this. If you let one tenant slide on ANYTHING, the rest will follow… eventually. Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

12

mnalep,

You have made a BUNCH of mistakes that you should correct immediately.

First, don’t give low income tenants a year long lease. Fortunately, the lease has already expired in this case, so that won’t be an issue. However, giving low-income tenants a year long lease only benefits them - not you and I wouldn’t do that in the future.

Second, NEVER accept partial rent. I find it humorous that the tenant has promised the other half of APRIL’s rent by May 2!!! How long will you let them go before you do anything about it? Two months, three months, six months? What you’re doing is telling your tenant(s) that you are a weak landlord and they can do whatever they want. In addition, as Phlemboy said, you’ve established a precedent over several months of allowing the tenants to pay late. Why should the judge evict them now when they’re doing what you allow?

I am thinking about going down to the police station, as I would rather they go in when things are happening - maybe I can tell them when that is when I smell dope and see them coming and going - versus them just busting down doors and ripping the place up looking for drugs.

You might be able to get them to come if you smell ether (used to cook meth) or see other tell-tale signs that meth is being cooked (such as a bunch of empty sudafed packages, empty chemical bottles, etc). You do realize that the chemicals that are used to cook meth are very dangerous and will result in a haz-mat team coming to clean up your apartment. You may be responsible for thousands of dollars of cleanup. In addition, your carpet will need to be removed and the floors and other low-lying areas decontaminated and sealed to avoid future tenants being injured or killed. Having a meth house is BAD NEWS (if that’s what has happened).

I would like to avoid feeling afraid to go there, as I do need to fix up the lower unit and get it rented. BTW, I do not have a CCW or a gun, or even a dog, to take with me when I go there.

There’s no hurry on the rehab of the lower unit. What decent tenant is going to move in the lower half of a crack/meth house? In addition, you might be putting them in danger if you put them in there, especially if you don’t disclose that the upper unit is a drug house. In addition, if this is a meth house, you may be required to have the lower unit decontaminated before you can rent it anyway. I would find out what the procedure is in your area. The successful investors in your area probably know the answer to this!

I'm not even sure that the tenant knows this is going on, as she was away when I saw this activity going on. I'm thinking of calling her, and not mentioning drugs at all, but letting her know I saw several people coming and going, and thought she might want to know that, and just see what she tells me.

Now you’re just being completely naive. SHE KNOWS!

I should also mention that the lower unit was just vacated. The lady there got tired of the 'drama' in the area, as she put it, and she had been there for several years.

So, you’re losing your good tenants and trying to keep the bad ones? That doesn’t sound like a recipe for success to me.

I'm worried they'll bust doors, and the bad guys will be back on the street and in my house in a matter of days. Is that a real possibility?

No, the PROBABILITY (almost a certainty) is that they’ll be back in your house the very same day (or the next morning at the latest).

Then I'd really have to worry about my safety, and stay away from there and the repairs and renting I'd like to do, for fear of reprisals.

This is a normal part of having low income rentals. If you’re afraid to go to your properties, then maybe you’re in the wrong business. I’m not saying this to be mean or negative, but rather I’m trying to tell you the truth. The vast majority of new landlords fail and you are following the path that they follow. You clearly don’t understand landlording issues and the tenants are running your property (instead of you running it). I have bought dozens of rentals from desperate landlords who have followed this same path. You might be better off with nicer houses in better neighborhoods or in an entirely different aspect of the real estate business.

Good Luck,

Mike

13

mnalep - I agree with Propertymanager.

You have to get them out no matter what. The fact that there is a chemical order coming from the upper unit means bad things are brewing. This is Detroit and the area is I hate to say ghetto, so the problems you are facing are real, and a potential for disaster.

I have done evictions in Detroit, and I can give you the number to a experienced real estate attorney that does evictions all the time. send me a PM and I will send you his name and phone number.

It will take about 3 weeks to 1 month total for the eviction to happen. 1st you have to file the motion at the court house, then deliver the notice. The court date will be set, once you win the judge will issue an eviction date, and you will have to meet with the court deputy who will do the eviction. They usually charge $1200 bucks for this, and you will have to order a dumpster to toss everything into as the city will ticket you if you leave everything by the curb.

Be strong on this issue, as propertymanager said don’t be weak with them.

14

mnalep,
in many states now if you know meth was produced in your property you have to disclose that when/if you try to sell. so not only are they late paying rent but they are probably making it very very hard for you to ever get rid of the property if you need to.
These last few posts are right. you need to take care of this problem now! not in another week or two.

15

I have been at the property almost daily since this incident, and have not seen anything suspicious of drugs going on there now.

I did find an anonymous tip line, for Detroit, and called to report drug activity. I told them the house across the street seemed to be being used by squatters, and they might be going into my house. I found the house across the street is back owned (Fannie Mae), and got numbers for them and was going to call and see if Fannie Mae could respond t the squatter problem.

BTW, the Detroit anonymous tip line is 313-224-DOPE. I also found a tip line for Southeast Michigan (1-800-SPEAK UP) (www.1800speakup.org) but have not called them yet.

Propertymanager,

Why is it an advantage to me to only give month to month rental instead of a 1 year lease? I thought if my 1 year lease had clauses for illegal activity, non payment, etc., I could get tenants out in 30 days even under a 1 year lease? Does it come down to a matter of proving illegal activity in a Court, or is there some other reasons you have for that advice?

Thanks all of you for your input. As I said, I’m not even sure anything is going on now. Maybe it was a one time thing, maybe I misjudged the situation, or maybe they’ve seen me around and have moved the drug trade somewhere else?

16
Why is it an advantage to me to only give month to month rental instead of a 1 year lease? I thought if my 1 year lease had clauses for illegal activity, non payment, etc., I could get tenants out in 30 days even under a 1 year lease? Does it come down to a matter of proving illegal activity in a Court, or is there some other reasons you have for that advice?

Yes, it comes down to proving it in court. How do you prove that the tenant is doing drugs? With a month to month lease, you don’t have to prove anything. If you don’t like the tenant, you simply give them notice that their month to month lease is not being renewed. It is very difficult to prove in court that a tenant is doing drugs (unless they’ve been convicted); or that they have moved in a bunch of friends in violation of the lease; etc, etc, etc.

What advantage do you have in giving low income tenants a 1 year lease? Does a 1 year lease mean they must stay a year? Of course not. If they choose to leave after being there a couple of months, what are you going to do - spend a bunch of money suing them? When you win, how will you collect? My grandma used to say that “you can’t get blood from a turnip”.

Good Luck,

Mike

17

Propertymanager,

I see your point. I guess I did feel I was getting them to ‘commit’ to a 1 year term, and that was in my favor.

I guess if I were to switch philosophy, and start renting with a month to month tenancy, I could just change the lease agreement form I have from a 1 year period, to a month to month timeframe. Is that reasonable. I also thought I read that the term ‘lease’ applies to tenancy of 1 year or longer, and that the terminology on the document would need to be ‘rental agreement’ for a month to month tenancy agreement. Anything else that I might need to consider switching from renting for 1 year, to month to month?

Thanks.