Here is some help for people starting out " how not to get robbed"

Hello , I have to say my experience for the last few months in trying to get involved in RI has made me bitter towards anyone who is a so called “mentor” , I am completely convinced that “mentors” make money by charging people to learn some basic stuff and great speeches for motivation not by doing RI , now don’t get me wrong this is America if this is how you guys make money fine , but it is completely unethical to do it by misrepresenting your self has a working RI , and please understand I came in to this process with a completely open mind (you can check my other posts) but what I have seen in REI clubs and an this boards has made me sick to my stomach.

Let me give you new guys some advice , if you every meet anyone who wants to so called “help you learn the business” be ready for a sales pitch , understand that they will say and promise anything to get your money , once they have you they will have 101 and excuse why some of the things they promise did not work , do not I repeat DO NOT ALLOW YOUR SELF TO BE TAKEN BY THIS CON MAN, yes I have been taken , I let my guard down and know I have a “mentor” everything he has said to me I could have found an this boards , but you see there one problem with my “mentors” latest cash cow , I get even not mad, I will make sure everyone knows what a fraud he is , I will attend every meeting that he schedules and make sure everyone knows what he is all about, but that’s my problem for you new guys I have one bit of advice , next time someone tries to sell you on a “coaching program” and tells you how anyone can make lots of cash in RI without credit or money, let them talk once they get to there price simple say this " Well I don’t have the cash right know nor room on my CC , but I will make you a counter offer, if your so sure that I can make deals in RI how about I cut you in 50% on my first 10 deals?" then sit back and watch the Rats run for there holes , the one that stands there and says “ok” that’s your “Mentor”

And before some Guru says I did not give it a chance or that I am just negative person, let me tell ya for the last 2 months I have been busting my ASS trying to get a wholesale deal I have made about 30 offers , and still trying , I could have made some deals but there’s one small problem you need cash in hand to make them happen and my so called " mentor " who was so sure he would find cash buyers for me in 21 days , well lets just say he is not so confident anymore.

I am not saying it is not possible to make a living in the RI world , but it is not easy , it takes work a sold plan , some cash and some credit , I just hate to see con man destroying the dreams of good intention people , who just want to make a living for there family’s , new guys don’t be so eager to jump just because some “mentor” is promising the world , always remember to must of this guys , YOU ARE THE BUSSINESS, and there business is to RIP YOU OFF!

My challenge to anyone here that calls him self a “Mentor” who is just trying to help people because it makes them feel good (what a bunch of BS) is simple show me how to make deals with no cash and no credit, I will invest 50 hours a week , and work to the point of starvation has your pupil , I will follow your word to the letter, I will give you 50% off all profits for a year! all you have to do is prove it ! lol fat chance

sorry for spelling and grammar I was righting this on my crack berry


Good to meet you…

That “Crack Berry” Line was funny…

I think I wrote a few days ago that 95% of people who apply for the job of and investor will fail… Just last night I was watching American Idol and there were some pissed off people who thought they could sing…

I have also said many times that this business is one of the hardest to learn and easiest once you do… The fewer dollars you have the more difficult it is… And if you want to be a flipper and make massive income then it gets even harder… I find it fairly easy to teach someone how to buy a rental out of the MLS but I don’t consider that investing… Although technically it is.

As far as making 30 offers and not getting one bite that may be par for the course since yore new… The number will eventually get to 1:9 inbound calls.

I was in a room once with probably 1000 real estate agents when a speaker asked the crowd to stand up if they would like to earn 500,000 dollars a year… Naturally everyone stood up… After a few more directed questions most people had sat down… Left standing were the ones who understood that change doesnt occur until the pain of not changing outweighs the pain of change.

I am not saying you have not tried… I dont know… Being a real estate investor takes more then a business card with the word investor on it… Its a bitch and frankly not everyone has the attitude to be one… It takes at times Wevos the size of planets…

The big problem with this business is that people think too much, or plan too much, even make excuses too much… Rarely will one find someone who just wants it so bad that nothing stands in there way… I bet if you asked what made someone successful they wouldnt say it was a mentor… My goodness mentors aren’t Gods… Successful people would say it was their desire to achieve greatness.

All a mentor should do is keep you from harms way and educate you on the process. I remember one of my students who stuttered really bad… His last mentor had him cold calling as a means to find leads… To this day I havent figured out that thought process.

You mentioned that you were willing to give 50% of your deals to your mentor… Honestly thats common… So that as a carrot isnt much…

When starting this business you must look at the three areas lead generation, lead capture and lead fulfillment… Without all three you will fail… It seems as though you were working generation and capture and forgot about fulfillment… The one at time which is the hardest especially if you’re working with limited resources…

I guess I could go on and on… I wish you well and remember what I wrote about 95% of investors fail… If you want to be in the other group fall down and get back up about another 100 times…

Good luck


MichaelQuarles What is your definition of investing?

Naturally when buying a property for use other then a personal residence would be considered an investment…

I however like the idea of buying directly from the seller at a large discount with little or non of my cash and without placing a new mortgage on the property short of seller financing…

Happy house hunting


I would give 85% to a “Mentor” that’s how much I am sure that they are full of it …

Let me ask you a Question how much of your income comes form coaching students ? be honest …IMHO 75%

Lol you do sound negative mate, but I don’t blame ya.

I’m a newbie too, still in the “read alot of books, talk to alot of people, do alot of studying” stage of REI.

I’d hate for you to be right but you probably are. All the guru’s and mentors make it seem so easy but I highly doubt it’s anywhere near as easy as they make it out to be. Not that I care. I don’t believe in free dinners. I am perfectly fine working my tail end off to become successful. But it’s as you said… too many mentors charge hefty fees for courses. The stupidest ones in my opinion are the no money down courses. “Pay only 997 for this course that teaches you how to buy Real Estate with no money down!” and you’re thinking “Wtf? If I had 997 dollars I wouldn’t need to buy properties with no money down moron.” Sigh

So apart of me agrees with you, another part really hopes you’re wrong ya know? What else are we supposed to do starting out? I’m only 19 and you can understand the frustration when I’m guarenteed many times over that I can make alot of money within the next 2-3 years from merely investing in real estate. If I take their advice and find out they were lying, then I wasted 2-3 of the best years of my life. I could have gone to college in those years and started investing after getting a degree and saving up some money.

So I’ll be tracking this post… see how others respond to it. This does interest me. And like you, I’m desperate enough to do what you’re willing to do, find a mentor, and give him 90% of the profits from every deal until I get the hang of it. Also very willing to just walk through the deal step by step with them and get paid nothing. Just watch, observe, learn. See I think more mentors should do that, just take their students out with them when they’re looking at houses and doing deals and have their students help them out. That’d be more then enough for me to get started…

Ah well. Interesting topic mate.

One more time… Most new investors will fail… We all should know that… I was in the MMA ring about 4 months ago sparing with a 26 year old who is professional fighter signed with Strikeforce… We went 5 rounds… He beat the crap out of me… Kinda pissed me off… I am in shape and can handle a couple things now and again… But heck…

What really made me mad was that the trainer who I had paid thousand to for personal fighting lessons told me the next day that my opponent was only going about 20% at best… I said 20%… He laughed… Then he said Michael what you dont realize is that before you get out of bed He has already ran 5 miles climbed stadiums and rolled tires… The guy works out 6-8 hours everyday and spares with professional boxers, Jujitsu trainers, kick boxers and wrestlers nearly 24 rounds a week… And your 22 years older…

So as I read your frustration it isnt about my bank account or yours… Its are you willing to do those things that do not feel comfortable and frankly can harm you… And then go find someone and pay them to teach you…

Good house hunting



I feel you man. I know it can be frustrating.
I won’t try and sell you anything. I want to just tell you how I did it. Maybe it’ll help, maybe it won’t. But here’s the real enchilada here.

I knew I didn’t have any money. My credit was iffy, but I knew I could make a go of REI>.

So here’s what I did:
I took a $40 class and learned the basics.
Went out and looked for deals not for 2 months, but for 3 months.
ON my lunch break at work, on the weekends, and after work.
Sent tons of letters out to these owners and then started getting calls.

I took a class on wholesaling which cost me $450 and VOWED to myself that that was the last dime I would spend on education and that I had to make it work and use my Profits from REI to finance the rest of my education.

Now that I knew how to locate, assess, and sign a contract I got my first deal that next weekend. $70k house put under contract for $10k .Flipped for a $2k fee. I guess what I’m trying to say is that you may need just more time. It’s a numbers game my friend. You may also being looking in the wrong place and dealing with unmotivated sellers.

I don’t know.

All I know is that for the first 2 years of my investing. I did it without singning a loan doc and I never risked more than $100 on any one deal.

Only you can know where you need to make the changes. Like Mike said. Are you willing to do it or are you just content to blame others?

You’ve definitely got the passion. You’re hardst deal is the first one.


Been there…

You sound worn out on the business, and probably for good reason.

Not that this will make you feel any better but it took me 10 months to ink my first deal and then I lost $38k on that deal.

While “trying” to sell that property I found my mentor. He wasn’t a coach and he did not charge me anything. He paid for the marketing, I did the legwork and we split the assignment fees 50/50.

Do NOT give any mentors or any coaches any money up front. REPEAT that 3 times in your head.

Split profits but you need to come to the table with something. Your current attitude seems a bit negative but that might just be your writing based on your current situation.

Make sure you are ENJOYABLE to be around or this free mentor may be avoiding your phone calls before you know it.

I met my mentor in a REIA club. Look for the older guys in the back that are just bs’ing. They already know plenty about buying properties and are probably looking to take it a little easier and maybe even give something back.

Let me clear up a few things , I do sound negative in this post , but not towards the businesses of RI , its more towards the whole “Mentoring” programs that some people try to push , I will still continue to do my work in fact I have 20 property’s that I will be looking at this week.

I see so many new guys come here and ask for advice , and the truth is you have to be very carefully , it is easy to lose money in the this businesses without losing 5k or more to some fraud, not saying all coaches/mentoring guys are , maybe I am just cynical answered me this , lets take JOE SHMOE investor , this guy is just the best , makes 6 figures every year , knows all there is to know about RI , but at the same time he takes on student why? and don’t give “I like helping people crap” , if you truly wanted to help people you would not charge them large sum’s of money, its just so hypocritical, lets face it most people take courses and hire this guys because there desperate , and some so called “mentors” take advantage of there situation , promising them easy money , its just not right, you know what they say " Those that cant do teach" and I am convinced that’s 90% of “mentors” .

Its true I am having a crises of confidence , not sure if what I am doing will work , but I will continue to try , but please don’t take what I am saying has a insult to all people in the RI world, I hate seeing people being taking advantage off , that was my only point in this thread hoping that I could help someone save there money and invest it towards there actually business of RI, and not some “snake oil salesman?”

There are a couple of guys here who get paid to coach and their notes to the forum contain good information, so I know that it is possible to hire a coach and learn something.

However: I make my living with real estate and I can not be bothered with beginners who think they are going to get rich quick with me doing all the work for them. It’s not worth the fee that they pay to go through the hassle of trying to beat information into their resistant heads.

Occassionally, I run across someone who seems really motivated and I will give them advice for free. There are plenty of good deals out there. I couldn’t possibly do them all myself and I don’t mind if someone else makes some money. It’s to my benefit if everyone is making money with real estate.

I’ve had a couple of people take my advice and make a lot of money. Usually, though, what happens is I tell an eager young hopeful about a good deal I’ve seen that I am not going to do myself. I tell them where it is, what it needs, how to market it, and what I’d pay for it if I wanted it for myself. Then check with them later and they have never gone out to even look at it.

Orion, if you are really serious about real estate, come around and ask a question. I will answer you for free if I know the answer. If I don’t know the answer, someone else here will answer you for free.

But I am not going to hold your hand and walk you through and let you watch me go step by step. I don’t care how much you are willing to pay for that service. You aren’t going to suceed, anyway, if you aren’t motivated enough to do all the work yourself.

There are a lot of services that promise to make you rich in exchange for a hefty fee. My reaction to them is extreme caution. But I think that anyone who reads this forum should be getting that message. I am certainly not the only one who posts over and over to be cautious about the gurus and their bootcamps.

Also, by my definition, if you are paying for training, you are dealing with a coach. A mentor is someone who takes a protege under their wing and steers their career with no fee involved. The mentor picks his protege. The protege never gets to decide who is going to mentor him (unless he gets multiple offers, which would be unusual).

I’ll get beaming people tell me that they’ve decided to let me be their mentor. Really? How’d I get so lucky? I didn’t even know I’d been looking for a protege.

All good points,

I usually try to comment on the most recent post to keep the topic flowing. I have to agree with Tatertot on this one, not about the idea of not working with newbies, but about the idea of helping people with nothing up front…

Read this post, I think you’ll agree it makes sense…fair enough?

As I posted somewhere else, there is another side of the topic against mentors…Ok, let us say that I’m a mentor, and we’ll call the prodigee Gilligan (I love that name, gonna name my first kid Gilligan…doesn’t that have a nice ring…“HEY, GILLIGAN!,get out there and mow the lawn already!”

Anyways, so I set aside time each week to help Gilligan…I’m working with him as promised. I tell him what to do, and he keeps telling me he is but he is struggling. He assures me he is doing everything I tell him to do…So I give him the benefit of the doubt and proceed with the mentoring…it is not going anywhere though, but I proceed to work with Gilligan because I assured him I owuld give him 110%…Fast-forward 6 months…

OK, 6 months have gone by, and I finally realize that I’ve been giving 110% to someone who has been jerkn’ me around…I dont have a crystal ball, but If I did, I could look back and see that he was never doing any of the steps I told him to do…so let us do the math here…at 1 hour a week…that would be 26 hours total of mentoring…26 hours, that is quite a bit of time…Is that fair to me?..Do I deserve to get paid nothing for 26 hours of my time?..Is it my fault?..

Here is the reason why there has to be an upfront cost…let me repeat that…here is the reason there has to be an upfront cost…if you dont get it here…there is nothing more I can do to help…read this quote…“No matter how small the fee is, nothing worth having, should ever be given away for free.”…“No matter how small the fee is, nothing worth having, should ever be given away for free.”…(thos is one of the quotes in my new book…The day I was a prophet…101 quotes to help you tap in to the secret of life)…it is not yet finished…

What I mean by this is, if there is no up front cost, then there is absolutely no committment on the behalf of the student…I dont care if the upfront cost is $500…$100…even $50…there has to be something or there is no commitment and that is a waste of time for both parties in my opinion.

So, I’m sorry to hear that some of you involved in this topic have been deceived…it happens…but that does not mean that all mentors are bad people…I think it means that unfortunately you got caught up with someone who charged you thousands, and thousnads of dollars and didnt have the means to help you…Or, it could have been that you just didnt close your first deal, and right around the corner the next deal will make you $50,000…and life will be good (as it is supposed to be).

Never give up, and don’t dwell on the past…nothing will change until you put this completely out of your mind and move forward…everyone makes mistakes.

“All that we are is a result of what we have thought.” - Buddah

“More gold has been mined from the brains of men than has ever been taken from the earth.” - Napoleon Hill

I 100% agree with taxlien advisor. There has to be some vested interest for the student to actually do what the teacher is saying.

I would add though that in rare cases you can get a mentor for free, but its usually not really “free”. It didnt cost you any literal money, but they might expect some other form of upfront payment. Working for free in their business for example, or having an already pre-established relationship with them (most often this occurs in the form of a son wanting to follow in his fathers REI footsteps) but it will always cost something.

Id say that a mentor who doesnt charge you some service or fee is stupid. Thats harsh but how are they protecting themselves from you wasting their time? How can you trust ppl who have nothing to gain and alot to lose? It seems foolish.

Though one technique that alot of mentors use is the “do this impossibly hard task and i will train you” approach. That insures that the person really is passionate about learning. Karate kid and many samarai films pop into my head, as well as a bible story. The rich young ruler.

The rich young ruler asked Jesus what it would take to gain eternal life (basically follow Him) and Jesus said “give up all you have and give it to thd poor”. This if course outlines the fact that Jesus wanted to see that person was committed. He wasnt. Of course you read the new testament and youll see his other disciples clearly were.

Theres always a price to pay for good leadership, education and mentorship.

Nothin in this world is free.

Having had a few mentors. (who never charged me anything)

It is possible to find real mentors who want to help you. It doesn’t hurt to offer your help first.
Even if you do not pay them it is a give and take relationship. Mutually beneficial alliance.

Keep working at it.
Focus on increasing how much on a monthly basis you are putting away for that first deal.