good credit, good deal, no cash

Hello there,

My old apartment is going condo and my ex-roommate wants me to go in with her. I am wondering if I could finance the deal myself, tho, since I would rather not “marry” my finances to hers (she’s European, no credit here, wants to put $85K in and be on the deed only).

Our price is $455K. The identical apt. one floor down is closing for $700K, and apparently the sellers are annoyed cause they want to break that deal (and ours) and get $800K. (We’re in NYC if you hadn’t guessed.) It’s a 1436-sqft corner loft, price per sqft is just under $300 when the rest of the area (Williamsburg) is at $500-700.

I have $30K and credit of 674 (maybe a few pts higher, I had the one blemish cleared). I’m self-employed, so I’d prefer to do a no-doc loan. Closing costs are estimated at $20K.

Is there any way I could finance this myself? It seems that the cap for conventional loans is $359,650, which would mean I’d have to do $95K down payment.

Thoughts are much appreciated… I’m a newbie…


I have been doing a lot of non-conforming (over $359,650) loans lately, and they generally have the same parameters unless you go above $650,000. What I mean by this, is you can probably borrow 100% depending on the lender, and if your friend goes in with you with the $85,000 down, there are many options and good terms for you, even stated income.

If the condo appraises higher than what the seller is asking, amend the contract to raise sales price by $20,000 and have the seller agree to pay $20,000 toward closing costs and prepaid items (taxes and insurance). The seller will still net out the same (original sales price= $455,000; new SP= $475,000- $20,000 seller pays in closing costs= $455,000 net).

That being said, some lenders will only allow the seller to contribute 3% toward closing costs ($13,650 in this case), but that would still help a bunch toward you keeping your cash.


The only problem with your comment is that she wants to go NO DOC and getting a 100% NO DOC and her score is below a 680 with is going to limit the ability to got to 100% plus it is on a condo it may or may not be a warrentable condo which again MAY affect the LTV.
I do not know of a 100% NO DOC program with a score under 680.

In NY I know that there are 6 Mortgage LENDERS that will do a NO DOC at 95% LTV on a CONDO which with your 30k you could get a loan all by YOUR SELF just fine you could use the 22750 for your down and the rest for some closing costs

LIKE RB STATED you might want to get the seller to pay some of your closing costs the usual and customary is 3-5% in NY so you could raise the price by that much just so that you can have the closing cost paid for

Most lenders require that you pay for your down and what is considered the non reacurring costs or pre paid items which include TAXES, INSURANCE and Pre-Paid INTEREST and the rest can be paid by the seller.

Yes your plan will WORK

I have found that the term No Doc is not always used in the right context. Assuming she can verify the $30K in assets, that would be SIVA, and as long as she can verify 2 years self-employed, as you know, it would be SISA. If the friend puts down the $85, then the LTV would work even if it is a true No Doc or NINA.

RB you must be new at this.

NO NO DOC IS NO DOC it is like a NINA it is not stated.
A stated is a totally different type of loan. SEE BELOW.

SIVA is different yes it is a stated loan and you are verifying assets

A NO DOC or NINA is NO INCOME NO ASSET and what is nice about this is that you do not even state a job or assets on the 1003 you totally leave those areas BLANK. NO VERIFICATION what so ever.

Where with the SIVA you put a employment and you state the income and you put the correct assets and you verify the assets

With a SISA again to put employment and state income and state assets on the 1003.

What if she is not self employed for 2 years what if she only worked for a year and what if she changed careers

THE STATED loans would not work. THUS a NINA or a NO DOC loan would.

Plus what is nice about a NO DOC for real estate investors is that you do not have to be in the business for 2 year you can just start being and investor and get a no doc verses a stated you need to be in a business self employed for 2 years.

I’m not new at this and know what no doc and stated mean. What I meant by my last post is that sometimes when a borrower refers to no doc, they think no doc is a blanket term and don’t realize that there’s no doc, stated income, verified asset, stated income, stated assets, etc, OR they can actually do stated and just think they can’t.

This particular poster did not reference how long she has been self-employed if you go back and read the post, so No doc may not be necessary in this case, and if she can go stated instead of no doc, it would offer way better loan terms as you know.

Thank you for “educating” me.

Thanks for the details. rbaxter you’re right, I did start off unaware of all the different “no-doc” loans, my friend sent me a link explaining the versions to me.

That is a great tip about getting the seller to pay some costs.

I’ve been self-employed for 3-4 years. I would rather not go on record about my income at all if possible. The asset check would be fine if I partner with my friend: we’ve set up a joint savings account, requiring both parties to be present for withdrawals; we’re making our deposits in June, I’d show the lender the bank statements for July and August, to close in September. IF we can get an extension amendment to the contract that is; the seller wants to close in July, in which case I’d have to do the NINA.

What kind of rates could I get on a NINA? For the SIVA we had a 30-yr 5/1 for $360K at 5.25%, no points. Are NINAs a lot higher?

so it sounds like i couldn’t do a NINA at 95% LTV unless my credit score is 680. I think i need this partner… she’s just kind of demanding…

How do i find out it the condo is warrentable? is that in the offering plan or the contract?

You actually probably don’t have to go NINA- NINA would only be if you can’t prove your 3-4 yrs self-employment. Proof would be a letter from your CPA stating that you have been in business for at least 2 years, or a business license.

Stated income, stated assets will give you better rates than NINA. If you can verify assets, better yet. Some lenders will allow for a verification of deposit a week or so before closing so that you don’t need to prove seasoning of funds.

Fannie Mae has guidelines for what is considered warrantable and non-warrantable, although some lenders have different guidelines. Did you say it is a conversion that is in the middle of the units being converted. If so, there are also guidelines for this. If most of the units are being bought by investors or one investor owns more than 10% of all the units, then it is likely non-warrantable, although that doesn’t mean that it can’t be done.

The building is in the process of converting. Everyone in the building bought, and the one remaining unit the seller’s broker bought.

If I state my income, should I state what it actually was, what I reported, or what it should be for the mortgage payments to equal 30% of my income? (We’ll sublet 2/3 rooms in the apt, would i add that to my stated income?)

Searched for “warrantable” on fanniemae, found nothing.

You probably won’t find underwriting guidelines on fannie mae’s website, but I don’t know for sure. If most of the occupants are buying, then it is probably warrantable. The lender has condo forms that need to be filled out by the condo association before closing that will determine the status of the project.

Ratios depend on the lender you go through. You can state any amount of income that is reasonable for what your business or occupation is. As long as your ratio is below 40% you should be OK.

Don’t mean to be so wishy-washy, but the particulars on loan program requirements are lender-specific.

The Positives of stated loans in your case is that you have been self employed for 3-5 years if you want to go stated a NINA rate is usullay .25% to .5% higher than stated and it does depend on the lender though

In NY like I said there are 6 lender that could lend to you with your score of 675 just fine

It is just what you want to do and what rate you do not have to use your roomates money if you do not want to.

She does not have to have US credit your roomate can buy another unit and get a loan as a foriegn national and again she does have more money done thus she propably could qualify for a loan her self it she was interested

How do I find out who these six lenders are?

Our bank said she could do an “international loan,” but she would have to have 35% down payment = $160K, which she doesn’t want to do.

I’d like to keep the mortgage payments under $2K/mo.

One way to finance it going no doc is to show bank statements. Most conventioal lenders will accept 12 BK, as full doc.