Could this be a deal?

I am looking to put a 3 bed 2 bath in a decent neighborhood under contract for $345k with $70k (20
%) to seller via a loan buyer qualifies for, balance financed by seller.

The property should cashflow about $450 per month once rented.

Would it be possible to assign this type of a deal to an investor/buyer?

Would an investor be willing to get a $70,000 loan from a credit union to do this type of deal?

If I could assign this contract for $4500, would that be a good deal for an investor?

Any feedback on whether this is a deal which is attractive to a buyer?

You have skipped over the important math and given us the final solution. But we can’t take a look at it, and make sure it’s a realistic number. For instance does your cashflow include Debt Service Payment? If it does, and it’s realistic nuber, a lot of investors are happy with a 450/mo cash flow.

thanks for the input.

offer is $345,000 owner finance with 20% down payment
buyer qualifies for $70,000 1st mortgage to pay seller’s downpayment
seller carries balance of $275,000

cashflow calculation:

rent $2400

1st mortgage payment @ 5.5% for 25 years $317
2nd mortgage payment over 30 years $764
monthly taxes $568
est. landscaping and insurance $150
monthly savings for repairs and vacancy $150

net monthly cashflow $451

these are projected numbers, house does not seem to need repair.

What kind of deal are you trying to put together?
And What is your involvement?

it is an offer to purchase a single family home for the purpose of wholesaling to an end buyer or investor.

the end buyer or investor would need little or no money down, qualify for a small loan (less than 50% LTV), and not have a major change in debt to income ratio.


Yes, it would be possible, but also as probable as turning water into wine.

You’ll be working too hard on this. You’re also setting yourself up for failure, if not a burn-out trying to shoe-horn these terms into this model. Borrowing down payments is a great tool to use, but the upside is non-existent here.

You know, it’s not nearly as hard to find a seller willing to finance a house at a 10% discount, with a 10% down payment. And the shorter the terms the more easier it will be to find a cooperative buyer.

Meantime, you can negotiate these transactions like a used car dealer would. Everything is up for negotiations, including the down payment, price, and terms and rates. Everything is (theoretically) on the table.

If something is NOT on the table, such as the price, then you work the terms.

I’ve come across many sellers who were hung up on price, but not the terms. I learned from Robert Allen (nearly three decades ago), to get one, or the other, or walk. And the best way to get one, or the other, is to focus on the “Don’t Wanters.” These are the folks that don’t want their houses.

Meantime, it’s about finding out what the seller wants; giving it to him; and taking every thing else. However, of course, many sellers want their cake and eat it, too, by insisting on both their price and terms. Well, if one of them will make the deal work, then we close (not usual without some standard-issue negotiations). If not, we walk.

It appears in your example that you’re attempting to give the seller his price, as long as you get 80% financing from the seller. That’s not a bad concept, but you’re giving away the store here. Where’s the upside for you in this example?

There’s a trillion different gambits and approaches you could use, but let’s take a look at the importance of ‘framing an offer’ in negotiating a profitable deal…

Framing an offer. It’s not what you offer, it’s ‘how’ you offer it.

Gambit 1: Retail Price / Wholesale Terms

Mr. Seller, I’ll give you $345,000 for your hell hole (OK, you won’t actually say ‘that’), but I need better terms than a bank will give me to make this deal work for me as an investment.

So, in order to turn this deal into something sensible, I’m prepared to cover the closing costs and give you $17,500 each year for 30 years, in return for 100% financing. This means that I’ll agree to actually pay you Five Hundred and Twenty-five thousand for your house in return for full financing.

What have you actually said?

  • You’ve told the seller that his price is not sensible
  • You’ll buy at full price, if the terms are sensible.
  • You’ve avoided talking about interest rates (3% effective rate)
  • You’ve offered a cost-free closing
  • You’ve offered a lump sum cash payment every year (this is a starting point)
  • You’ve outlined the effective price you’re paying after all is said and done;
    $525K ($165K over asking price)
  • You don’t care about the price, if you get sensible terms.

Now the negotiations have begun. Of course this assumes you asked lots of questions before this point, so that you’re not still hunting and pecking to find the seller’s hot buttons, and determined that the seller is a true “Don’t Wanter.” Meantime, you’ve steered the discussion toward terms favorable to you, with a price favorable to the seller.

What middle ground you negotiate to will greatly depend on how you continue to frame each element as a benefit to the seller, and the satisfaction you force the seller to achieve during the negotiations.


Gambit 2: Wholesale Price / Retail Terms

Mr. Seller, I realize you want $345,000 for your nightmare on Elm St., but I would rather shove rusty razor blades under my finger nails (OK, you would not really say this), than pay you this price.

What I’m prepared to do, is give you Two Hundred and Ninety Thousand Dollars with Thirty-five thousand in cash “today” (at closing), which is 12% of your asking price, and offer you an additional $20,000 every year for twenty years. That means I’ll pay you Four hundred and thirty-five thousand dollars for your house.

[What have you actually said?

  • Put the focus on the price up front and undermined the seller’s expectations
  • Pivoted to the terms; cash you’re going to offer
  • Inferred that your down payment is more than what a bank would require
    (sometimes you actually have to be explicit here)
  • Emphasized the Twenty Thousand you’re paying every year
  • Summarized the grand total you’re paying after all is said and done

Both these ideas illustrate how to move away from the price, and focus on terms, even though in one instance we are giving the seller his price. In both instances we’re talking about the actual dollar amounts being paid to the seller, but not in terms of an interest rate.

Anyway, I think that either of these scenarios might be easier to negotiate and produce than what you’ve outlined, especially when it comes to borrowing money from an investor for a down payment.

Borrowing down payments is not uncommon, but there has to be a better upside for the investor than what you’ve listed. This would be a highly ‘value added’ deal where the returns are much better than what you’ve listed. Value added just means there’s extra profit potential somewhere in the deal for the investor (or you).

Meanwhile, the two examples show a value-added element when we’ve negotiated steal terms, if not steal prices.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

thats gold javipa!!! i will be using that in my future deals :beer

Thanks javipa for the brilliant insight.

Looks like there is a lot more to presenting the deal than just the price and terms.

It looks like the seller now wants $300k cash out of this one to buy another house.

The upside was definitely small on this one. I am looking to complete a deal to get one under my belt and probably got a little bit desperate.

How many deals does it normally take to find a true motivated seller?

Is it just a matter of calling 100 fsbo’s?

Fearing a discouraging word here, but FSBO’s suck drain water.

They are often the ones who harbor the most perceived options (in their heads, if not anywhere else).

First, they think they have the marketing and negotiating skills of an agent. Well, agents themselves are notoriously terrible at marketing. Just ask the folks with expired listings littered all over the MLS. Or how about their inability to negotiate much more than a carpet replacement…much less framing a counter offer.

So, we’ve got an amateur seller (FSBO’r) who’s attempting to be his own Realtor, because he thinks he’s competent enough to put the agent out of business; too cheap to pay someone to do the leg work; or just too greedy to pay a commission. And if that’s not all, he thinks he’s got options including renting, or lease/optioning, or even seller financing the house.

Never mind he’s got zero experience with any of these alternatives. And never mind it takes the average investor three, or four, years from the start, if he ever does, to have the courage, if not the understanding, to successfully do any of these ‘exit strategies’ in the first place. But the seller thinks it’s like falling off a turnip truck, it’s so easy.

So, FSBO’s think they have options, if they can’t get their price. So much for the negotiations.

That discouraging feedback just applies to 90% of the FSBO’s, but not 100% of them. And that’s where the hope comes in. 10% of the FSBO’s are ready to deal. 3% of those FSBO’s think they’re out of options. The issue is then to filter out the "option-toting FSBO’s in the first place, so we don’t chip our teeth biting on unmotivated prospects.

As an aside, if we consider that sellers, who list their property, are often more motivated and “optionless” than FSBO’s are, then the issue is getting past an agent who has the professional obligation to get the best price possible.

Actually, that’s NOT the issue in many situations. Sometimes, the issue is just getting the house sold …the price be damned.

And of course these often become the agent’s pocket listings. These will be presented to the agent’s investor buddies. But where else might these agents advertise (so they can get the full commission)? The answer is, of course, craigslist.

Meantime, if we want to find the deals that don’t require uber negotiations through agents, or require annual purchases of entire cases of Girl Scout Cookies from an agent’s daughter, to get on the inside track for pocket listings, then we have to find these deals ourselves. This means spending the money that any producing agent would spend to find pocket listings.

In this respect, we are no different than agents. It’s about spending money marketing for deals. The difference is, we’re looking for deals, not for listings. Simple as that. Meantime, the short cut to success here is consistent marketing, regardless of what we do. Such as direct mail, flyers, bandit signs, online ads, online lead capture, business cards (yes), and whatever.

Newbies often think that marketing is done only until they find a deal, and then suspend the marketing until they need another deal. Wrong! It’s not a ‘one off’ marketing campaign. It’s an ‘ad nauseum’ marketing effort. This costs m.o.n.e.y.

Newbies otherwise give it a one-time shot, and then quit without getting a deal first. Why? Because they mistakenly thought that marketing was a temporary effort that required little work, little effort, was a “work-in-your-underpants-in-your-sister-in-law’s-basement,” enterprise of easy success. Or worse, they didn’t have enough money to market in the first place, and then spent all they had, with no results.

Of course, too, this is a major “guru” sales pitch to newbies about “wholesaling with no money.” That is an elusive, unicorn-chasing effort, but I digress.

Well, the faster we embrace the real world costs of marketing for leads and deals, the more success we’ll have at actually finding and negotiating deals from FSBO’s. And the more we embrace the fact that working with agents is a relationship-based effort, coupled with a clear idea of what we will buy (and a performance history), the more inside track we’ll have to pocket listings.

Either way, it’s pretty much finding that 3% of sellers who are ready, willing and able to give us what we want. And the better we are at finding those prospects, before anyone knows they exist, the higher our conversion rates will be.

Does a 30% conversion rate seem impossible? Not if we qualify the prospects before we pitch them.

Finally, Barney Zick is the guy that first taught us to qualify a seller before ever making an offer. He said that it takes about a 1/2 hour to overcome the seller’s lies about why he’s really selling. Now, this is less necessary, if we’re just blowing in, blowing off, and blowing out with a cash offer, in many cases.

However, if we’re depending on any creative financing solutions, we need to spend time with the seller to understand his real motivations, and then tailor and negotiate an offer that we can close on.

That’s probably too much for one post, but maybe it’s an encouragement to somebody.

Javipa, I did not want your posts on this thread to end! I don’t often post, but I wanted to let you know the expertise you provided was very helpful and encouraging! Where can I learn more about qualifying sellers?

This will sound simplistic, but qualifying sellers is part art and part science. However, it doesn’t have to be ‘high art’ or ‘high science.’

You just have to be willing to talk with sellers and find out what they’re hot/warm buttons are.

If you can’t seem to find a hot button after talking with a seller for at least 15 minutes, if not 30 minutes, or so, then it’s time to walk.

Do we have to spend 30 minutes with every seller? No. Some sellers will tell us, point blank, they are not motivated, and have no deadlines to sell. Well, that’s enough disqualification for me. Buh-bye.

Others just need a few moments to get to know us, and trust us, and believe we’re not there to equity strip them, and they’ll come clean, or at least tell us what they actually need out of the deal.

Frankly, there’s a standard range of motivations that falls somewhere between death, divorce, debt …or perhaps defeat (tired landlords come to mind).

Meantime, it’s not rocket science, unless we make it that.

Just ask questions and listen. After a while, you’ll hear the same things over and over, and develop a tailored script focused on what you’re solution might be.

I would develop a script based on the types of purchases/terms you’re pitching; probate, lease/option, sub2, cash, etc.

I want to say a lot more here, but I’ll be writing a book.