Confessional Time

Hey all.

First of all I want to say thank you for putting up so much time and effort to help us newer folks out!

I need the vets help one more time. Here is my situation.

I have read about 20-30 real estate books of varying subjects. I have listened to approximately 500 hours of seminars (really just the same 10 large seminars over and over. I listen to them when I work on things.) In the meantime I have been going to school two hours from home, so I could not really get into REI and at the same time keep good grades.

So nows the time. Im out of school. Ive been waiting for 5 months to get out and enjoy the weather and get into this thing. I have my bandit signs, about 10k in fliers I printed at school (I love free stuff :D), a bumper sticker and a toll free line waiting to roll on top of other stuff. I have all my systems set up, and have begun doing small mailings a week or so before I got out of school. I have about a week to finish up some obligations outside of REI.

What I need is a course that shows me how RE contracts and such work. I do not know how any of the process works. I do not know any of that stuff. The seminars never covered these things. Nor the books. Its all marketing and also being a graphic designer I am way ahead on marketing. I could direct mail your grandma and get her to crack eggs on my roof.

So if there is any course or class that shows this, or website or whatever that will sit me down and show me, I would love to see it. Price is no concern, as this is the only thing stopping me from going full steam. Im afraid without knowledge of real estate workings I will not be able to have convincing coversations will sellers. If they ask how I will deal with X I may not even know how X works.

So if you guys could point me in such a direction, it would be greatly appreciated. So I guess these are my main questions:

Do you know of a place or thing or course that will show me the ropes of RE workings.

Do you know where I can get or write a good contract (this is where the above is bugging me, I cant tell a good one from a rotten one.)

I need something that is assignable, and that a buyer will want. Doesnt the buyer of my contract assume all the provisions I put in it? So if the contract is bad they wont want it right?

Thanks all for any help you can give me! Best wishes and take care!


Contracts are the most simple part.

Any piece of paper (even a napkin) can be a legal purchase and sales agreement if there are just a few important details written clearly on it.

What kind of courses did you buy that did not talk about real estate contracts???

Go look up Bill Brochich’s stuff and legalwizz or whatever. He is the real estate investor’s lawyer when it comes to real estate.

Save yourself a lot of B.S. I wouldn’t use ANY contract I bought on the internet for my business. How the hell do you know if it’s legal in your state? I’ll tell you how. When you find out it’s not!

If you have gone as far as you say in setting up your business it’s now time to get an attorney. Calm down, I know they can be scary. It’s business and don’t EVER forget YOUR hiring them. Ask for prices. Lawyers love to cultivate what I call the “Country Club mentality” It’s not polite to talk money. Yea right, it’s ALL they talk.

Here’s what to do… Find a small town attorney who works for himself. These guy’s usually work out of coverted single family homes located in business districts. you’ve seen them. Call a few, sit down tell them what your doing, what you want, how much your willing to pay, and that you’ll use them for EVERY closing you do. Also explain that you want a LONG TERM relationship and you pay your bills in 10 days. AND GO WITH YOUR GUT FEELING. If he feels like a sleaseball HE IS!!!

Pay your attorney within 10 days of getting billed. You’ll be his BEST client. I guarentee it! In return he’ll treat you right. If he doesn’t FIRE HIM!

My attorney has kept me out of more shit than I care to remember. He made me a ton of money and is ALWAYS got my back. He’s done alright too. It’s a win win.

Tien, they talk about contracts, but not how to use them, or what to put in them. They all tend to lean towards what is a good deal and how to find deals.

petemfa, good advice. I will look them up. Way back when, I looked up a few and the only one that adertised they specialized in real estate was one of those FANCY NAME, FANCY NAME, FANCY NAME, & FANCY NAME in big gold letters. They charged 300 an hour too. We have a quite snooty upscale niche of people here…you know the type I am talking about.

Ill do a deeper search, and see what I can find.

Contracts are fairly easy to learn the main thing to be concerned with are.

  1. The “Outs” that you have, these are the ways that you can back out if your financing fails, or if the home fails to meet your inspections

  2. The closing date, and the ramifications if you dont close by that date

  3. The earnest money, Where it is kept? How much? and What it takes to get it released?

  4. How taxes are paid Calender year proration, Fiscal year, etc (this may not be important in all states.

  5. Is the contract assignable.

The list could go on for a while, but just when you think your learning it all a bank with throw a 20 page C.Y.A till the cows come home contract at you.

This picture is scary to a 22 year old college kid who has worn a tie 0 times in his life, and dressed up is a polo with shorts and flip flops.

Lets hope I dont offend em!!

Need a lawyer that works reasonably cheap? Do what I did…

Go on the Martindale Hubble site and find what look to be smaller firms. Email them and ask what they would charge you for the contract you need. Email 5-6 places and see who gives you a good price and who responds quickly.

I had one guy email me back almost immediately, told me he would do it by the next morning, had it there by the next morning and charged me $100. Another guy told me $225/hr, $800 retainer, and approximately $1500 for the work. It takes 6.66 hours to draw up a simple master lease??? If it takes that long why was the other guy able to start late afternoon one day and have it ready bright and early the next day? Hell some attys responded a full day after I emailed and some haven’t responded yet. If you can’t respond to me right away I’m not interested, I don’t like being ignored.

I would go take the contracts class that is offered for the realtors. Contact your local Realtor Board for class schedules.

Well I found the Realtor Board head person.
I also found a directory of all Indiana Realtor boards. Wow what a surprise that my towns version is not an informational website but a glorified extension of homefinder!

All they talk about ti how to sell a house.

Anyone think I should just email this head lady?

Maybe she will show me where to go…

22 year old scared?

The first time I went into a homeowner’s home I was 20 years old and almost got the deal. They decided to keep the home but I was damn close to getting a deal.

I think you are spending too much time trying to keep yourself “busy” and not enough time going out there and getting the job done, ie getting people to call you with homes for sale.

Get someone to call you with a home to sell and is desperate to sell it and THEN come back here and ask more questions.

Like I said, you are doing everything in the world to prevent yourself from going out there and learning the business.

It’s direct and blunt but its true.

You don’t buy homes from people by figuring out every single minute detail of a measly little real estate contract.

If a contract is what is keeping you from doing anything, you are not serious and beginners that are not serious in this business don’t make it anywhere.

Just start your mailings and bandit signs or whatever and start negotiating with sellers.

Forget about the contract for now. None of that matters until you get someone to call you.

Tien - Thanks for the encouragement. I have not yet started (I am on Monday with passing out fliers) because I am finishing up some other business obligations that are taking up all my time. Well, its about two weeks worth of work but I want to get it done now so I am doing it in one. Once Monday comes its off to the races.

The thing is, I know how to get and talk to motivated sellers. Ive listened to all my seminars so many times that stuff is burned in my head. I find myself having not even started but able to give advice to noobs about marketing and finding deals and analyzing deals. I guess this is why I feel like I need to know how contracts work, because my knowledge is so off balance. I know more than enough about the people side but nothing of the technical side.

Ah well. Thanks for the advice and I CANT WAIT to get out there. DAMN FAMILY GET TOGETHERS!

Edit: I was being sarcastic about the scared thing. Youd be surprised how little I care about “offending” other people.

I think the advice about lawyers is right on. I plan to rely on them until I can do the process in my sleep, and then perhaps rely on them less.

But even then, I’d prefer that it be attorneys that keep up with changing RE laws and not me. I’d rather focus on project managing everything than be expert on every relevant professional specialty. (I grew up watching my parents try to do REI that way and it wore them out).


Just out of curiosity, how do Lawyers work? I assume most charge hourly, but can you sometimes call them up and ask a question if you have been there a couple times and they know you? Is talking on the phone on the clock too?

Also I am guessing they round up to the nearest hour?

from my experience lawyers charge you if your name crosses there mind. If I were you I would take a couple of realtors out to lunch and have them explain the contracts that they use. Once you understand there contract you could manipulate out the stuff that you dont approve of. Realtors are not bright, I am a realtor, I am not bright, if I can figure out a contract then anyone can.

Other business things keeping you from doing real estate?

Nonsense and I don’t buy it. You are here to confess your sins.

Putting out bandit signs doesn’t take a 2 week commitment. It takes a 1 hour a day commitment.

Don’t have time? Wake up one hour earlier and do it!

There is ALWAYS TIME to do what you want to do, regardless of whatever other commitments you have.

Hey Tien,

How about you come over here and kick my A$$, it would be more effective than over the internet :smiley:

Seriosuly though, I know what you mean and thanks for the encouragement. If it werent for you jumping my throat I wouldnt have gone out today I started today by passing out flyers in three target neighborhoods for 3 hours. Im going to do more tomorrow. One of my spiders almost died today so I got a late start.

I havent put out signs because I have to do it Friday-Sunday here or you get fined. Thats why I havent done that yet.

So from now on - daylight=fliers, looking at houses, nighttime=working on marketing material and forming LLC. Im calling an attorney to set up an appointment to go over about three pages of legal pad paper worth of questions I have. I called a few this afternoon and the prices ranged from 150-300 an hour. Any experience on this? Is that average?


I guess you can pay them that 400$ total for their consultation, ask as much as you can on the forums first…

I know nothing can replace a lawyer’s advice from your state / county but not all lawyers give out 200$/hr’s worth of real estate contract advice.

And yeah, the beginning for real estate investors is the most difficult. I shit you not, hang in there for the first year and you will prosper.

My first year was difficult, If I didn’t have access code to the MLS (yay realtor friend) and free advice from a legal authority (yay connections) I couldn’t have imagined how much harder I would have to work.

Keep trucking.

Get those phones ringing.