now the sale was closed the 18th of this month. we just got a call the 28th from our realtor that the buyers wanted us to pay for a roto- rooter charge and now the full replacement of the sewer line, because the sewer backed up.
issue 1: The buyers declined a sewer inspection on the contract, they also declined title insurance and a home warrenty.
issue 2: we never lived there , but in the course of the rehab we had used the waste drainage only a few times and did not experience any problems over the 4 months we worked there.
I remember one day I put atleast 50 gallons of water down the drain without incident.
we just realised tonight after looking over the contract more, that per our contract that has their intials, we are responsable for $0 cost resulting from defects discovered by inspections , however a gas leak was found and we agreed to pay to that repair fee.
even thought contract stated we were not responsible for any $ amount.
They will be contacting a lawyer, and we will be contacting ours.
(1) First, from the pics, it looks like a nice job – another trasher saved from the dustheap!
(2) I’m not a lawyer but I wouldn’t even think about considering a verbal complaint…I would not give a lot of creedence to a written one unless they paid for a lawyer to write it…they’re not serious, they just want someone to pay for their lack of due diligence! If you have no knowledge of bad sewage lines and they didn’t bother with requisite inspections, shame on them not you!
10 days have gone by…how long do they expect you to personally warranty the property? I guess I should have gotten the sellers to pay for the water heater that broke a couple weeks after closing…stupid me!
I also wanted to say “nice job” to you.
This is my first post to this forum, but I have been reading it for some time…
I have rehabbed several properties, for resale, over the past several years.
I have a questions for you:
Did you finance this for the new owners? Also, what state are you in, and how much do these folks say that this will cost?
I have run into almost the same thing as you in a previous deal. When this has happened to me, I have sometimes agreed to a compormise or a split. Anyone can sue anyone for anything, so sometimes it is worth a few bucks, some effort, or goodwill to just compromise.
Here is a tip from my contracts attorney:
If you do decide to “help out” a buyer by completing repairs (or paying for them) outside of a warranty or contract, you will want to write a simple document that states that this is a one-time thing.
In other words, if you do one thing (like pay for a gas leak) that you “didn’t have to”, the court sometimes sees that as a defacto warantee if there are future disputes.
Thanks for the compliments on the work and the advice
Well the day passed and they did not contact us, our lawyer laughed when we told him what transpired, saying they would have to prove we knew the problem existed.
Did you finance this for the new owners? Also, what state are you in, and how much do these folks say that this will cost?
I think we paid a for a few of the financing cost. But I am unsure of the amount.
The guy really didn't give a clear answer too want the amount was he just wanted us to agree to pay it. which we would hve to be crazy to do.
we are in ohio.
If you do decide to "help out" a buyer by completing repairs (or paying for them) outside of a warranty or contract, you will want to write a simple document that states that this is a one-time thing.
In other words, if you do one thing (like pay for a gas leak) that you "didn't have to", the court sometimes sees that as a defacto warantee if there are future disputes.
that is good advice and I will remember that in the future, the gas leak was something we felt we had to pay, because we hadn’t noticed the $ amount on the additional repairs, because we expected some cost.
I’m seen quite a few post on this exact topic as well as experienced it myself (stopped draina fter close of sale).
The fact the owner did not do an inspect the property makes it extremely difficult to make claim aginast you. Also this slim chances is further reduced since you never lived there (you had no way to know).
When there is a grey area, it very good to “throw a few bucks on the tabel” to make it go away (note, I’m a super tight wad with my money, but I’m not stupid).
In this case, I would ignor them. They have no case.
I agree a grey area deserves attention. we are tight wads too, we give too much effort to just give money away.
realnew:
we got lucky that no one got the house before we did, it was on the market only a few days, at 23k, we bought the house june 2nd 2005, and finished it in mid september. we worked 7 days a week from 9:00 till 5:00.
most of the days we 90+ degree heat and humidity.
we did all the work ourselves none was hired out except termite treatment which the bank payed for when we got the place.
material cost came in around 13k but if we had decided to not buy the washer/dryer/fridge it would have been about $1500 less.
we put it on the market for 75k, we payed cash for it so no carrying cost.
This was our 4 house we’ve done, it was also the first one we completed this fast.
How much or little you have invested should no bearing on how you deal with a negoiation point (yes, this is very tough to do!). That is letting your emotions get in the way. I don’t “give” anything away; I solve problems in the most efficent way with respect to time AND money in order to move my business forward.
However, I know where you are coming from as I did a rehab last year where I put in 1300hrs of my own personal labor in about 14 months(while having a full time, “regular” job) and $40k in cash; yet ended up with a buyer who seemed to think she was buying a brand new tract house (wanted every little paint chip fixed).
They have ZERO case against you. No reason at all for them to get any money from you even in the event you wanted to be nice because the ‘goodwill’ you would generate would do nothing for you. It’s not like these buyers are buying another of your homes so what would having ‘goodwill’ with them help?
If buyers are cheap / irresponsible enough to not get inspections done then it’s their problem if a defect is found after the fact (provided the seller did not knowingly hide that fact, which you apparently did not).
Thanks DFW, I agree their main mistake was the refusal to order the inspections, we would have had no problem fixing it then, but as it stands they may have cost the blockage simply by putting to much thanksgiving debris down the garbage disposal. the system worked for four days after they moved in without problems.
I believe they think we are rich, but sadly we are not, considering that profit has to be split two ways and cover us till the next house is complete. which is not looking good as the local market is at a stand still for our price range.
aak5454: I know the situation was probably handled with more emotion involved then it should have.
but when you fix a house to what is for all intent and purposes a brand new home ie new siding, roof,<-- we didn’t install those two, but they were new two years before… we installed around $2100 in new kitchen cabinets alone, washer, dryer, electrical thoughout the house" it has over 50 outlets for a 1300 sq foot house" cable and phone to each room, new water heater, and a new 90% furnace… located on a great street
It kinda strikes a nerve when someone demands more, considering the competition in that price range, they got a heck of a house. we know someone who just painted and put carpet and 5 new cabinets in a house and wants 70k, he worked there on weekends over a two month span. I am not downing his method it certainly will be more profitable for him, but I feel we gave a better house for the price.
I think this thread brings up an important aspect of rehabbing which is the psycological side if you are doing the work yourself. Having rehabbed and sold a number of houses myself, its always tough becuase when you toil with your own hands and sweat, but in the end, it is just a business transaction. The finsihed house is just your product and the buyer will view it that way. As such, you need to have a bit of thick skin as you will always have buyers who complain that this or that should have been fix, replaced, what have you. Granted you will never anticipate all those things; moreover, you will miss things like the drain since in most cases you will not live there.
As such, when issues come (and they will) you need to be able to see the buyer viewpoint and work towards a win-win solution (even if it means bearing part of the cost to mitigate an unseen problem).
In the end, being completely unemotional and detacted is an ideal state to work towards; in reality, some of the sharp criticism you might get from potential buyers will still piss you off; you just need to be able to get past it and make the deal happen.
Just some food for thought for readers of this forum…
I agree that you have a good point aak5454. Unfortunately we live in a litigious society where everyone thinks every problem that occurs is the fault of another party. I think that the buyers should exercise all their options regarding inspections and approvals and I don’t think that sellers should be put out by that (there quite a few that are though). After the allowable time, I think the buyers should bear the responsibility of the lack of inspections if they so chose. Essentially what the buyers are saying is, we don’t want to spend the $275 for a full inspection but we want the protection that having one entails. And to me, that’s having your cake and eating it too, which is unreasonable.
I totally agree, they had all the freedom to order the inspections and they declined the option,
we are now in a situation. we recieved a letter from a lawyer the buyers have retained they what refunded the money and all legal cost. According to the letter they are basing the whole thing on, that we knew about the problem. I cannot figure how they will prove it… any ideas?
Mainly according to the intial meeting we had with them, they believe we knew about the problem because there was a container of root destroyer in the basement. and therefore we knew.
However what they cannot seem to understand is that container was there when we bought the place, and I never even picked it up. this is a picture from the first day we saw the property as you can see to the left of the picture is the container, there was 2 foot of water in the basement that day and we had only been at the property for about 30 mins.
That does pose a problem. You said that there was water in the basement the first day you bought the house. I think that alone might be enough for them to legitimately state that you knew (or in their eyes, should have known) there was a drainage problem. If you didn’t disclose the problem to them and shortly after the sale there is an issue you might have trouble proving your point.
Sorry I should have clarified, the water in the basement was from a sump-pump that was plugged a non functioning power outlet, the sump-pump was and still is pumped outside to the road, and is not put into the sewer system.
I had a similar deal oh about three years ago I told the new owners I absolutely would not pay for the sewer line… I would however buy them an outhouse and a gallon of paint so they could paint it to match the house and sent a link to outhouses!! Just a thought you can get a used outhouse for around $400.00!!!
