Are they for real or scammers....

This past week I attended teh Robert Allen seminar at the sheraton hotel.
The guest speaker was lorenzo spencer out of Salt Lake City, Utah. Does anyone here on this forum no this person and the kind of work he’s known for.
While attending the 3 day workshop there were some very informative discussions, on foreclosures, multi-units & many more. I’m a newbie and I felt a bit overwhelmed by all this information. I was seriously considering joing RA 6 week master training, but was taken a back when he said the cost would b e$34,999. I didn’t wan’t to do it until I did some further investigations…Even though the idea of buying properties with no money down seems good, I wanted to get some opinions from some experts that can better guide me in the right direction. Is Robert Allen’s courses a scam or are they legitimate? :help

$35k? Go buy something, even if you lose around $35k you are down about the same amount of cash and probably will learn more in the process.

Robert Allen is a “guru”…like all gurus, he sells stuff…none of it RE. Probably ‘back in the day’, RA did a butt-ton of deals and understands the RE investment world. All of these gurus have the same M.O.: Get you in, feed you just enough info to pique your interest and get their hooks into you to sell you more ‘stuff’ – you’ll find out that it NEVER ends.

He does have several books that are not-too-bad basic fundamental-type books for newbies…“Nothing Down”, “Nothing Down for the 90s”, “Nothing Down for the 2000s”…his niche was nothing down deals (obviously)…


While I would never pay $35K for a course (I’d never pay $300, actually), only you can answer the question as to whether it’s worth it for you.

People pay way more than that for a college education, presumbaly so that they will get the knowledge they need to work and have a career, etc.

If you think that you will have a hard time putting together the information that you need, then maybe it’s worth $35K to have it done for you. Keep in mind, ALL of the information is out there, waiting for you to pick up for free…but maybe you would rather have it delivered to you on a silver platter.

Also, my take on these seminars is that they are really more about providing motivation and confidence than they are about conveying information. To paraphrase Henry Ford, “Whether you think you can or think you can’t, you’re right.”

If spending $35K moves you from “I can’t” to “Hell yes, I can!” then I think that’s $35K well spent indeed.

As usual, the answer to the question begins with, “It depends…”

That is the magic word. You were overwhelmed. That along with your desire to become a real estate investor is how they make their money. If real estate was something that was simple you would never give them $35,000 to learn it. There is a lot of stuff in real estate but you will find that not all of those techniques work were you live. You probably only need 1 or 2 techniques. The techniques and strategies you should learn or the 1 or 2 that the successful investors in your town are doing. Nobody is doing wraps and flips and owner finances and assumptions, and foreclosures and short sales, and multi family and single family… What you will find is that these guys have settled on 1 or 2 basic strategies that are so simple even a cave man can do it. What I would do if I were you is go to my local real estate investor club (probably no more than $200/year to join) and find out what makes money where you are and do that.

Hey, just thought I’d chime in. Read the books, stay away from the courses. I don’t think they are scammers, they are just sales people selling you stuff you don’t really need. Read his book “Multiple streams of income.” He even tells you what he is going to do to you. Start with free stuff, and keep reeling out a little more at a time as the dollars go up and up.

I had a friend that hooked up with him for the big money. I think he ended up over $40K into RA. It helped him a lot, he was doing all kinds of deals on their recommendation. In fact they turned him on to the Cape Coral area about two years ago and he liked that so much, he brought in a bunch of friends and partners to put up their credit and buy pre-construction. The line was that there was NO RISK, and Tons of money to be made. He took it hook line and sinker and went big guns on it. He now has a lot of houses to sell in a market that is incredibly overbuilt. Any one want to buy a great deal in Cape Coral, Florida?

The point is, these guys ( gurus ) can help you, but always remember that their interests are in transfering money from your pocket to theirs, no matter what they say. If you loose your shorts doing deals they suggest, they won’t help you out of the jam.

My 2 cents,


You guys are talking small potatoes. I’ve seen gurus ask and get $65,000 for training. I saw three people at the end of a three days seminar write a check out for the $65,000 to go to the “University”. I hope they spend their money more wisely when they are investing.

If it’s over about $19.95 for a book, it’s no longer ‘small potatoes’ for me…

Industry training is the SC, DC (same circus, different clowns) – they (Cisco, Avaya, Nortel, etc.) NEVER teach you everyuthhing that you need in one sitting – it’s a never-ending ‘circus-ride’ to get anything done…and the answer ALWAYS lies in the next training class!


Thank you all for the priceless info.
I’m not going to be spending 35k on a seminar, I rather learn it from REI or other valuable sources. So I guess my question is what are some of the best ways to get started in investing in RE properties? I live in NYC and the cost of buying or investing in properties are so hiigh it’s unbelievable. From an expertise point of veiw where should I begin, I’ve already started reading some of the info here on REI. I need to know how to get started in investing, and are there way’s to start purchasing properties without me having to put my own money down? Any suggestions on which NYC investment clubs to join? Thanks in advance.

So I guess you won’t be pulling out a line of credit on your house anytime soon? The first two days of the free seminar were great fun, but the third day was 8 hours of sales pitch on buying the package.

I just don’t see any real benefit in the expensive training. My advice is to go to the free or very cheap seminars. Get a bunch of questions and ideas from these seminars and then ask the question here on the this site and save the $35,000.

How can I go about buying properties with no money down?
Where can I go to find out if there’s any foreclosure’s in my City, and once that’s completed what intial step can I take in getting ready to buy the properties. I know that RE is a paper driven business so what are the more important areas I need to focus on?

Buying properties with no money down:

You can call a loan officer and ask if they have lenders that do 100% NOO investment loans (1-4 units). If they don’t then say ok thanks anyways and call another loan officer. When you find one that does 100% NOO than ask them what their requirements are. You can always try seller financing


  1. Call some lenders until you find a 100% NOO lender.
  2. Go look at a ton of properties. You have to see properties to become comfortable with investing.
  3. While you see properties you will learn your market and become more comfortable with buying. Seeing properties is critical for you to become more comfortable with being a landlord.
  4. Learn to cash flow a property.
  5. Find great deals
  6. Buy slowly in the first year.

Some courses are good, others are not.

Some gurus are good, some are not.

Some gurus will teach you the real deal… if only you have the personal willpower to persevere.

I myself have not gone to any seminars, I have only bought home study courses off ebay.

If you want to start in this business very slowly and easily step by step.

I would go wholesale a junker home.

In terms of what material to get, I would just order that cheap 50$ Ron Legrand Cash flow generator from his site.

It’s literally the easiest way to get into this business.

I honestly believe diving right into this business doing nothing down deals / creative financing deals with no mentor or no knowledge / experience whatsoever = an even more expensive seminar than that 35 000$ robert allen thing.

Hope this helps.

You have to remember that it is all about the financing. You don’t think that Donald Trump saves up a billion dollars and buys the Empire State building (or the land under the Empire State Building) do you? If you can finance the deal you can do the deal.

So I should go the Ron Legrand route, ok I’ll look him up and take it from there.
Here’s my dilemma though I don’t have that much money to begin with, and my credit is border line between 600 & 700 how will I be able to get loans from banks to secure the deals for the properties that I want to invest in? I guess that’s the area were I’m most uncomfortable right now. :help For those that are season veterans in the RE industry what experience can you share good or bad starting out that helped define your overall niche in this line of business to make you a success story?

Even though I just spent $97 to see Burce Norris speak…I will say that the best resources are the local REI Clubs. (That said, Bruce is giving a talk at ours) There are also some great books out there, if you need black and white info.

When you educate yourself on doing creative real estate investing, you will never need to go to any bank to qualify for any loan ever again to finance your deals.

It is so easy to buy some of these courses, for example: ron legrand / kris kirschner / kathy kennebrook / richard roop stuff off ebay for 1/10 of the value.

I have a friend that bought the R.A. info :banghead every time he ran into an obsticle they wanted to upsale him. It will never end!!
The “Gurus” just want to upsell & upsell & upsell

Getting educated is an excellent idea!! So is finding others who are successful in Real Estate & learning from them. There are investors around who will help you without selling you books.

Investor Clubs & Libraries are a good source of information

:biggrin WOW I wan’t to thank all of you for giving me some sound advice on how I can get started. This weekend I’ll be picking up those following books and just assorbe all the info.
I’m really serious about making real estate work for me…Bottom line I’m tired of working for someone else, and living pay check to pay check. The part about not having to need a bank to finance my deals, how does that actually work? I saw yesterday an abandoned brownstone in Harlem, NY were I reside on 116 street between lenox ave & St. Nicholas this property has been abandoned for nearly 15 years now, with all the redevelopment going on in that community how can I go about inquiring about getting that piece of property to invest in?