9/11 Conspiracy or Not?

Random Ramblings
21

First off, I wish by the end of this discussion that I can be convinced that 9/11 happened as the official story claims. It will give me more peace that you’ll ever know. So take your best shots… I wanna hear every perspective that I’m missing.

I never claimed to be an expert and I also don’t take you as an expert on this subject… but to answer your question, how much resistance would I expect? Give me a NANOSECOND on each floor, or ONE second for the 100+ floors, how about half a second total? As the resistance was being built, the initial floors SHOULD have had even a milli-second of resistance before the loads were added to each floor. If you don’t want to give me resistance, then show me the result of pancaked 100+ floors on the bottom of the rubble beyond just dust and debris. Explain how pancaking floors can shoot debris up to 600 ft away from the building in all angles, specifically upwards.

But I’m not an expert, so let’s move beyond that.

The list of buildings you gave me:

  1. Worchester STORAGE WAREHOUSE vs a sky scraper?
    According to wikipedia, this fire burns FOR SIX DAYS before being brought under control. No mention of collapse in its footprint, if you know it, then please post.

  2. Station night club fire 100 people died vs. sky scraper
    “The structure was a single story wood frame building with a footprint of about 4484 square feet.”
    Sorry…no comparison.

  3. Vendome Hotel Fire Boston Ma
    “It took nearly three hours to stop the blaze… Then, at 5:28 PM, without warning, the southeast section of the building collapsed.” “the subsequent collapse was attributed to the failure of an overloaded seven-inch steel column whose support had been weakened when a new duct had been cut beneath it, exacerbated by the extra weight of water used to fight the fire on the upper floors.”
    Not convincing enough, didn’t fall into it’s own footprint… so no comparison to building #7.

  4. Sao Paulo Brazil CESP building
    PArtial CORE collapse: http://www.fpemag.com/images/content/Summer2005/DuetoFire03-01_tn.jpg

  5. Vandergraft Apts. Pitts. PA
    The “old” wood Vandergrift apartments in Pittsburgh, PA (Belser, 2000) totally collapsed on…
    Wood vs structured steel… no comparison

6)Newton Ma commercial multi story mal
“a 4-story, brick commercial building collapsed about one hour after the start of the fire, with the upper stories collapsing onto the floors below.”
Doesn’t compare to a skyscraper.

AND SO ON…

I don’t know the framing of these building, but I do know that they weren’t the same as the WTC towers. So we aren’t comparing apples to apples here. How about I give you a list of building that burned for hours without collapse, skyscrapers, not small nightclubs or 4-story buildings.

As for the reporter, OK I’ll accept your view. It’s not a major detail, could’ve been a simple mistake. FINE. Let’s move past that b/c it’s not a significant detail. Even if I’m right, it’s not convincing enough so let’s put it aside.

As for building #7 and falling debris. Have you seen the collapse of this building?? It wasn’t partial, wasn’t from specific damage, wasn’t from intense fires shooting from every window. It was a calm, precise, collapse where the building fell equally from EVERY ANGLE.

But again, I’m not an expert and neither are you. I got better info coming, and I promise they’ll get you thinking and questioning your own views.

Time to shovel some of this 16 inches of snow…

22

OK…Using YOUR LOGIC…

Show me all the 100+ story buildings in HISTORY, hit by Jumbo Jets LOADED with fuel, traveling at 500 mph, and hit at the top 1/3 of the structure that are STILL STANDING!!!

Here’s a little bit better source than YOUTUBE where you apparently get your “facts” from. This is from a PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER writing for STRUCTURE Magazine…A periodical for STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS and BUILDERS…But hey…These guys could ALL be in on it too. :banghead :banghead :banghead

http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-11/SF-WTC7-Gilsanz-Nov07.pdf

But hey…Don’t let EDUCATED EXPERTS sway you here…

Move on to something else…You’re DROWNING here.

23

Using my logic, let’s focus on Building #7, which was never hit by jumbo planes.

Let’s put your one engineer against 1000+ engineers, but hey don’t let the educated experts sway your views:
http://www.ae911truth.org/

I’ll tell you what, rather than going back and forth on these details, I’ll share a different perspective. These details on buildings collapsing are NOT the only argumentative factors. I’ll post soon…

24

Don’t bother…

Here’s some background on ae911’s founder…

http://911Guide.googlepages.com/ae911truth

Apparently YOU didn’t do much research into this QUACK…Basically he works on HIGH SCHOOLS.
Hasn’t produced a SINGLE technical paper on 9/11 HIMSELF (it’s all a cut and paste job from other peoples works) He basically takes SNIPETS like the BS you posted about the reporter and weaves them into his whacked out theories.

The 1000’s or engineers and architects you mentioned??? You better do a little more RESEARCH pal…Half these idiots he lists as professionals are using FAKE names like the reporter claiming to be an ENGINNER that this nit wit has now quoted for YEARS now without ever even checking his backgrund. Another FACT…The THOUSAND Engineers you mention…IF you merely sign up for at web site YOU’RE AGREEING WITH THIS QUACK because he’s using THOSE numbers as his SUPPORTS…HUNDREDS of Pro’s had been asked to have their NAMES taken off that list because they DO NOT agree with ANY of these theories. But their names REMAIN.

But don’t let FACTS get in your way…

Also…Don’t waste your time sending me anymore PM’s asking me for advice. I promise you I won’t be WASTING my time responding to them. If you believe this TRASH there’s nothing more I have to discuss with you.

25

Here is a link to an article about some photos that were taken from police helicopters. Pretty dramatic stuff.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-02-10-wtc-images-new_N.htm

I remember when it was all happening and I can see where it would be hard to believe that it was “real” because of the enormity of the situation, but I just find it very hard if not impossible to believe that the entire thing was a plan or somehow setup to happen. There were just too many variables that all fell into place that if changed just slightly would have thrown everything off.

There are bad people out there who do nothing all day long but think of ways to destroy this country. And for our own citizens to waste time trying to blame it on the government is even worse. I have never been to ground zero in NY, but I have been to the Ok. City memorial and I can honestly say that it brings me to tears each time I have been there. So for people to show up at ground zero and accost surviviors and relatives of the victims is unconscionable. I am surprised that there has never been reported violence because if someone I knew and loved had died in either of these despicable acts of terror I would be opening a GIGANTIC can of whoop a** on someone that showed up while I was mourning and tried to pull some ridiculous bullcrap like protesting.

Try telling a WW2 veteran that Pearl Harbor was setup so we could attack the Japanese. Your asking to get whacked with a cane or a walker.

26

Another FAVORITE???

the MOON landing was STAGED in HOLLYWOOD!!!

Here’s what happens when you tell a former FIGHTER PILOT, that graduated from WEST POINT , flew 66 missions and had 2 MIG KILLS in Korea, and received a DOCTURITE from MIT that he never walked on the moon…

BIG MISTAKE for this LOSER…

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZOo6aHSY8hU&NR=1

27

Wow… ok so since you can’t prove your points, you attack details that make no sense and get emotional about it.

Insignicant: creator of the website
Significant: The 1000+ engineers are real.

Funny how you always rant about the masses following the hype but here you are doing the same thing and ignoring any new information that comes your way. Well there you have it fdjake, at least you can relate to them now. Just shut the brain of if it means you have to challenge your views.

The TRUTH is: This information is THE HARDEST THING YOU’LL EVER TRY TO ABSORB. It requires challenging your views on EVERYTHING since 9/11. Most people’s brains won’t bother, and I didn’t expect people to be convinced from my posts but at least consider the alternatives. But don’t you dare try to accuse me of wasting my time with digging deeper into an event that changed this world.

28

My son and I watched an episode of Mythbusters a few months ago where they went through all of the myths of the moonlanding being staged and they disproved every single one of them. That is a good show for those of you out there that like myths and conspiracies. Some get proved others get disproved but it is neat stuff to watch.

29

I remember watching a documentary on how the towers came down. It was a long time ago but i remember the engineer saying that heat generated by the burning jet fuel was unsustainable for any building. The structure basically melted and collapsed floor by floor. That’s pretty much in line with what FDJAKE said… I think…

Hoosier, I don’t want ANYONE carrying a handgun on a PRESSURIZED airplane at 3,000 feet. Let alone any Tom, Dick and Harry. It only takes one nitwit to have gun go off to send the plane to the ground…

30

Make sure that we keep the personal attacks and name calling out of the posts.

Thanks

31

Sorry I started this thread…I dont want anyone to fight over this…Whats common sense for some is complicated for others…Once again I didnt want to see anyone fighting…

32

It fine to disagree. Just don’t need to add in the name calling. :beer

33

Actually you can shoot holes in a pressurized plane without sending it to the ground. Air marshals train that when they shoot some bullets will end up piercing the plan’s skin. The plane won’t depressurize that rapidly through a bullet hole.

34

What if you have 200 people firing holes into the plane?? :biggrin Sounds like a job for “Mythbusters”…

35

Even in a sudden, complete depressurization of an aircraft, that doesn’t cause the aircraft to crash (although it is a little disorienting and upsetting). Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

36

Actually the CREATOR of the web site is VERY SIGNIFICANT when YOU quote the THOUSAND+ Engineers that supposedly agree with him…

The only PROBLEM???

I just signed up as a ENGINEERING member at that site…NOW I’m ALSO one of the THOUSAND+ Engineers!!!

NO CHECK done on my BACKGROUND, No Professional registration documents even ASKED for…Not even a SPACE for a State PE registration number.

As a matter of FACT…NUMEROUS…REAL Engineers that made the MISTAKE of signing up with that site, have REPEATEDLY asked that their NAMES be removed because they DO NOT agree with this nut in ANY WAY, SHAPE, or FORM…But he STILL uses the NUMBER you referred to 1000+…Sounds like a SALES JOB to me…and YOU bought it…HOOK, LINE and SINKER!!!

WHAT A RESOURCE YOU FOUND THERE!!!

The reality is this…

This wack job is an ARCHITECT that designs HIGH SCHOOL GYMS…he admits to having absolutely NO BACKGROUND in structural engineering, demolition, explosives OR…HIGH RISE ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN!!!

I would consider THAT VERY significant…

But I’m WACKY that way!!!

I’m done debating this…If you believe the Towers came down because of PLANTED EXPLOSIVES…

That tells me everything I need to know! Enjoy your conspiracy!! :beer

37
This wack job is an ARCHITECT that designs HIGH SCHOOL GYMS.....he admits to having absolutely NO BACKGROUND in structural engineering, demolition, explosives OR.......HIGH RISE ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN!!!

I would consider THAT VERY significant…

That is some funny stuff. Made me laugh out loud.

38

I referenced that site after googling ‘9/11 and engineer’. I never visited that site before today, but I HAVE SEEN PLENTY of presentations, reports, articles, ETC by engineers.

Just like your silly attempt in referencing ONE engineer who wrote an article. BIG DEAL.
The point made, which you obviously missed b/c you’re too busy playing GOTCHA, is this:

There’s engineers on BOTH SIDES of the story and IT DOESN’T MEAN SQUAT!

Let’s talk about your great collapsed building resource, gee, did you copy that off the firehouse wall?? WHAT A GREAT RESOURCE!!

NOT…

None of your BS arguments made sense Mr. fire-explosive-demolition-steelframing Expert. You took a topic like 9/11 and twisted it into a game of kiddie politics, now you sound like a kid running away with the lollipop in your hand. That was never my intent.

39

Which story is it??? This guy YOU mentioned IS an EXPERT (as YOU claim) OR you never visited the site till today and know NOTHING about it???

Just for the record…This is the same guy who PM’d me ASKING how I got information about properties from the OBITS???

He actually ASKED where I got their info from???

I had to READ this question a few times because my MIND couldn’t wrap itself around how this person could look at an OBIT in the paper that had the PERSONS NAME, the CITY OR TOWN they LIVED IN, and EVEN THE STREET they lived on right in the OBIT…Yet he had NO CLUE how I was contacting these people. :flush :flush :flush

Here’s the WORD for WORD question…

“I’d like to take your tip and advertise to obits, but what source do you get the home address from?”

I actually replied…“ARE YOU KIDDING ME???”

But now I understand!!!

And he NEVER VISITED the ae911 site until today??? :bs :bs :bs

Someone didn’t make SENSE here alright and I’m more than CONFIDENT the readers can figure out WHO that was!!!

I’m sorry if I got a little heated on this one…But this topic hits very close to home for reasons I’m not gonna get into here.

40

Just for the record, as expected, he didn’t post my full message that I sent him: I PM’d him and asked him if he used an online directory to find the HOME ADDRESSES of the deceased.

WHY? Because I checked about 5 online newspapers in NJ and NONE OF THEM HAD THE HOME ADDRESS LISTED. So I asked him if he used a separate search to find the actual home address, like
http://www.deathindexes.com/

Can you wrap your head around that?? Try it… it requires accepting a different VIEW, something you obviously aren’t capable of doing. :banghead :banghead :banghead

If you wanna keep attacking that website I referenced, go ahead. It was a weak link, but it served it’s purpose: THERE’S ENGINEERS ON BOTH SIDES.

FACE IT…You CAN’T STAND having your WEAK views on 9/11 challenged. THEY MAKE NO SENSE. That’s why you’re throwing in these personal attacks and playing kiddie politics. You aren’t an expert on this topic and whatever experience you have as a firefighter DOESN’T relate to what happened on 9/11! . :banghead2 :banghead2 :banghead2

Hey and your buddy here, Mr. Ramon Gilsanz, the EXPERT… listen to him as he says “WTC # 7 WAS THE FIRST STEEL BUILDING TO HAVE COLLAPSED DUE TO FIRE” Maybe you should send him that firehouse-wall list of collapsed buildings you posted earlier!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Mp4QdWQRs

I’ll say it again and end with this… 9/11 WASN’T done by Congress, our gov, Bush, the republicans, democrats, ETC!! NO THEY DIDN’T SIT around and plot this against their own country. START filling in the gaps and find out for YOURSELVES how deep this rabbit hole goes. Stop accepting the officially story with all it’s bogus lies and misinformation and investigate the truth.