Would you guys consider putting ceramic tile in a low income rental, vs vinyl or carpet, just because it will last a lot longer? Even though it costs slightly more (note Lowes has cheap tile for just $0.78 /sq foot, but the installation is more)…I imagine getting 5 years vs 1-2 years worth of wear…?
Thanks!
Put in Laminate flooring. The reason I say this is two fold… First it’s cheap. A whole lot of people got into the laminate floor business and you can grab Pergo style flooring at builders surplus stores for dirt (.99/sq ft). It goes in in hours. They now make it to look like tile and it wears like IRON. The BEAUTY of this flooring comes into play when it comes time to REMOVE it. Laminate flooring sits on a thin foam pad which comes with the floor and is rolled out before the floor goes down, the floor is NEVER ATTACHED to the subfloor. It’s actually called a “floating floor” because of this… Laminate flooring has to be kept about 1/4" off the walls. This allows for expansion and contraction. A small moulding covers the gap. When it comes time to remove laminate you simply cut a slice right down the middle of the floor and start pulling up the old laminate. Once you get it started it, you can pull up 500Sq. ft. of it in less than an hour!!!
Replace with new…DONE!!! All for about $3-4/ sq. ft. installed.
We’ve installed composite floor tile in some of our apartments. They come in 20 sq. ft. packages. It has a peel and stick back to it, but it’s not paper thin peel and stick like that junk you can buy. You put a floor primer down and then put this on top of it. We’ve put it down directly on concrete and also on top of a layer of linoleum. It’s about $1.50/sq. ft. or so, but you can cut it with a utility knife and it’s super easy to insall. No mess. It even has built in borders for grout. We grout all of ours and they look very nice. You can’t tell the difference between that and ceramic by looking at it when it’s installed. Plus the composite doesn’t get cold like a ceramic floor would.
Also ditto what fdjake said about laminate flooring. Got a bunch of that too for under $1.50/sq. ft. It’s 25 yr warranty (5 yr comm.) and looks great in there.
Have a couple pictures if someone can tell me how to add them here.
Peronsally, I use ceramic tile. I have a few houses that flooded, so I have 100% tile in them. People seem to like it.
I thought installing sheet vynl flooring was cheap to buy & install. It also lasts a while. I wonder if you laid down the “peel & stick” tile with a very strong adhesive would work. At least you would only have to replace just a few squares if needed. I’ve also seen some tiles that are like the ones you see in hospitals at Home Depot. They’re tough as nails and can waxed & buffed. I think they were cheaper than ceramic but more than vynyl. I think when it comes to low income rentals, the cheapest most durable product would be best. I would hope you would not have to replace to “floating floor” every time a tenant moves out.
Tile is as close as you can get to a floor that tenants can’t damage, unless they vandalize the house. Nothing is completely tenant proof.
If you are going to put down tile, look for a through body porcelain tile. Your labor is the most expensive part, and the porcelain is much harder and more durable than ceramic.
If you get through body, there is no glaze that can be chipped. If the tenants manage to chip the porcelain, the color goes all the way through the tile, and small chips aren’t at all noticable.
Always get extra tiles and store them away. You can replace a few damaged tiles and not have to replace the whole floor.
There is a silicone water-proof additive that you can mix in with the grout. It’s made for fish ponds and showers, but it also helps to make your grout more tenant proof.
Worse case…if you have problems with the grout, you can always chip the bad sections out and re-do it. The paper thin peel and stick stuff will make a room look completely different in just a few minutes and it’s easy to replace, but it will start to peel at the corners after awhile. The composite stuff is thick and more like a ceramic tile than the thin stuff.
Thanks for the advice guys
Here is what I’m planning to do - as of now. It’s more like a list of problems I had with laminate flooring…and what I think are the good answers.
Basically the house will be 80% laminate flooring, and I’ll put vinyl tiles in the remaining 20% (kitchen & 2 bathrooms). This is low-income housing, so my goal is to keep it cheap yet durable. Tile is what I would like to do, but it won’t work here unfortunately.
Problem #1 - Laminate flooring does not look durable
Answer - When I first saw laminate flooring, the first thing that came to my mind was - haha - pressed wood flooring. What sap would buy that? Well…first I heard guys rave about how durable they are. And how they are nowadays relatively resistant to water. I didn’t believe it. So I got samples of hardwood flooring, and laminate flooring, and keyed them. I could put huge dents in the hardwood flooring…no problem there. However I could not even scratch the laminate flooring. I couldn’t even scratch it with a kitchen knife! It was hard as a rock. Sooo…I was impressed. Highly impressed. Anyway I was told I can put laminate flooring in the bathrooms & kitchen areas, but I think I’ll put vinyl tiles in those areas just for my own satisfaction due to potential water leaks. Also note I DID talk to several people (off this board) who have had lots of luck with laminate too.
Problem #2 - Wood laminate flooring is hard to install & takes lots of time
Answer - Actually I learned it’s real easy, and I can do it myself or hire someone cheaply. I can pop the pieces together like Legos - it’s literally a no glue / floating floor. Yet it’s sturdy. Checkout http://home-flooring.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_to_install_laminate_flooring
Problem #3 - What (or when) the tenants screw up the laminate flooring…what do I do then?
Answer - I can replace the floor sections easily & cheaply using that trick JDfake recommended. Or I can simply paint the floors using PropertyManager’s “carpet in a can” strategy which I really like too! Whoo hoo! Either way works for me.
I carpet the bedrooms, laminate the living rooms, tile the bathrooms, and vinyl the kitchens. To add to your comment about scratching the laminate. The reason I use that stuff in the common areas is because you can’t scratch it, which also means pet claws can’t scratch it and they can’t pick it like they do carpet. I allow dogs so it works for me. However, I would not put laminate in the bathroom. If that stuff gets wet the top veneer layer will start to separate from the rest of the piece and you have to end up replacing it. Also, I recently learned not to use a floating vinyl floor in the bathroom either, I had a contractor tell me he put it in his bathroom and it was a major mistake…Good luck buddy.
I pay $1/sqft for tile installation, so the cost runs me around $2/sqft installed including material. Carpet is not much cheaper. If you go tile, make sure you use the 16"+ not the smaller kind, gives it more appeal.
We started installing vinyl planks in living, etc. instead of carpet It’s water resistant unlike laminate and our neighbor has it installed in their laundry room. It looks just like hardwood and tenants love it. The cost is about the same as the laminate. We’ll be putting them in all our rentals in the future.
The kind you can get at HD is free floating (no glue needed). We have our carpet supplier install it and theirs needs glue.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100595231&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&PID=500871&cm_mmc=CJ-_-nextag-_-D23X-_-100595231&cpncode=12-49429109-2&URL=http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/BuildLinkToHomeDepot?linktype=product&id=100595231&cm_mmc=CJ-_-nextag-_-D23X-_
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/flooring/msg0911023312366.html
We put ceramic tile in kitchens and BAs and pay less than $0.78/sf --we buy on sale or clearance at HD or Lowe’s.
Motivatedceo,
I know you’re already done with your rehab (congrats), but I am trying photobucket to see if I can get those pictures up here I was talking about:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp333/justin0419/100_06362.jpg
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp333/justin0419/100_06372.jpg
Nice — it looks good. That looks DAMN GOOD. I really would prefer to use that stuff, but the cheapest I’ve seen it is $1.50 to $1.75 per square foot.
This is what my $0.50 /sq foot stuff looks like, which normally costs $0.69 /sq foot.
http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq309/motivatedceo/from_livingroom.jpg
http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq309/motivatedceo/bedroom_corner.jpg
I was wondering how the vinyl planks sound when you walk on them. Do they sound hollow like laminate flooring or more solid like real wood flooring?
The advantage to using 12" vinyl tiles is you can replace a torn tile without having to replace the entire floor. Keep a few extra tiles for future repairs. I always use tile adheisive when installing tiles to be sure they stay down.
I really like the vinyl planks, especially Novalis from Lowes although we’ve yet to install it in a single rental. We actually did a trial outside on some concrete steps and it help up like crazy. Its on the to-do list fer sure :biggrin.
DH is a big, big fan of ceramic tile and has installed it every chance he gets. We use Aquamix grout colorant (not just grout sealant) to seal the grout and clean-up between tenants is amazingly easy. Can’t recommend it highly enough.
We’ve been hesitant to try the less expensive laminate although we do have the higher end stuff in our home and it’s a dream. Holds up to dogs and kids and anything else.
Great thread-- and I’m so glad to find this forum :cool
You’re right, I did pay a little more to do it. My thought process was longevity. Since I’m not local to that property, I didn’t want to have to pay someone to come replace carpet every couple of years.
Did you do the whole house with that stuff? Does it seem pretty durable?
I’ll have to see if something like that is available where I’m going to be. I could definitely see that as a cost effective option.
The entire house, minus the stairs and the closets where I could save the existing carpet. If you have a place in the ghetto it’s a great idea — all the people who toured it loved it. That honestly surprised me. It seems extremely durable especially after you walk on the tiles.
Connie thanks for the tip on the aquamix. Are you saying that the colored grout includes the sealer. I did a search on google on the product and that part of it was not clear.
I have one rental that is all tile and I love it. When I am renting it out I am not as concerned about pets and their kids can run around the house as much as they want and I don’t worry if they have a mat at the door. I was worried that tenants might not like it, but I have had no complaints and we have not had a problem getting it rented.