The REALITY of it is this…THEY are becoming MORE like US.
We have a group in power right now BECAUSE of an OVER-REACTION to a PREVIOUS group in power…
That very group currently in power is about to LOSE IT…
This is where people sell the USA short…they ASSUME it will take RIOTS and REVOLUTION to change things…But it NEVER does…Changes comes in UNDER THE RADAR…
Look at the FALL OF COMMUNISM??? Where were the WARS with the Soviet Union we spent BILLIONS and BILLIONS preparing for??? We were BULLSH*TTED… Where was the REVOLUTION??? The VIOLENT OVER THROW of Communist RUSSIA??? A COMPLETE and UTTER change in GOVERMENTS all over Eastern Europe without a single shot fired in most cases…no war, no revolution, no riots…IT CAME IN LIKE A GHOST…
The BERLIN WALL fell with KIDS DANCING ON IT…NOT BODIES HANGING FROM IT!!!
WAKE UP…Too many freaks out there are calling for this crap…IT NEVER HAPPENS THAT WAY!!
IT WON’T BE HAPPENING HERE EITHER…BUSINESS as USUAL…Just the EBB and FLOW of political parties and their popularity in lock step with the same ebb and flow of the economy.
One guy constantly CRYING about Goverment handouts....BUT HE TAKES THEM....... EVERY MONTH!!.....and the other SUPPORTING HIM TAKING THOSE SECTION 8 Checks and complaining about HANDOUTS!!!
Here’s a newsflash - Section 8 is NOT a handout for the landlord, any more than being a firefighter is getting a handout from your local government or selling airplanes to the air force is a handout to Boeing. I provide a service to the government for which I am properly reimbursed. On the other hand, Section 8 IS a handout for the slackers that receive it because they have done nothing to earn their free housing.
Look at the FALL OF COMMUNISM????? Where were the WARS with the Soviet Union we spent BILLIONS and BILLIONS preparing for????? We were BULLSH*TTED.....
RIDICULOUS! Tell the tens of thousands of Americans that died in Korea and Vietnam fighting the communist threat!
You spin it anyway you have to Mike…You’re the one working 12 HOURS PER WEEK and cashing the goverment checks!!!
The bottom line is this…
I don’t SIT HERE and CONSTANTLY CRY about GOVERMENT hands outs…I also don’t sit in CRY on CHRISTMAS, or THANKSGIVING, or 4th of JULY or any of the other Holidays I spend in a FIRE STATION…WORKING!!!
Mike last week we had a 42 year old guy WALK into the Firehouse I work in to THANK US…He and his wife and kids were all crying because on THANKSGIVING DAY he had a massive heart attack…When the Engine & Rescue turned the corned to his street…HIS 10 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER WAS STANDING IN the DRIVEWAY…SCREAMING!!! The guy was DEAD, no pulse, no breathing, we defibbed him, dropped a breathing tube down his throat, and did CPR…HE’S ALIVE TODAY because of the S E R V I C E we provided.
Comparing YOUR SNOWBOARDING, HIKING, MOTORCYCLE RIDING, 12 hour, GOVERMENT SECTION 8 CHECK CASHING work weeks to what a FIREFIGHTER does is…
MIKE…Both KOREA & VIETNAM…REMAINED COMMUNIST!!! We TRIED the WAR theory…IN North Korea the communists are STILL there…In VIETNAM…THEY WON!!! You made my POINT!!! and THOUSANDS of AMERICANS dies to LIBERATE WHO??? The Vietnam people that lived in GRASS HUTS???..AND STILL LIVE IN GRASS HUTS!!!
You spin it anyway you have to Mike…You’re the one working 12 HOURS PER WEEK and cashing the goverment checks…ALL WHILE CRYING ABOUT WASTE and GOVERMENT SPENDING!!!
The bottom line is this…
I don’t SIT HERE and CONSTANTLY CRY about GOVERMENT hands outs…I also don’t sit and CRY on CHRISTMAS, or THANKSGIVING, or 4th of JULY or weekends or any of the other Holidays I spend in a FIRE STATION…WORKING!!!
Last week we had a 42 year old guy WALK into the Firehouse I work in to THANK US…He, His wife and kids were all standing there crying…He told us that on THANKSGIVING DAY he had a massive heart attack and we were the crew that responded…Then it hit us…This was the guy whose 10 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER WAS STANDING IN the DRIVEWAY…SCREAMING when the trucks pulled up!!! This guy was DEAD, no pulse, no breathing, DEAD…We defibbed him, dropped a breathing tube down his throat, and did CPR…HE’S ALIVE TODAY because of the S E R V I C E we provided…This is done on a DAILY basis in every Fire Department in the WORLD.
Comparing YOUR SNOWBOARDING, HIKING, MOTORCYCLE RIDING, GOVERMENT SECTION 8 CHECK CASHING, 12 hour work week “SERVICE” to what a FIREFIGHTER does is…
PATHETIC!!!
But it’s a GREAT INSIGHT into how YOU cope with what you SAY and what you DO…Bitch about GOVERMENT spending NON STOP…But ride your motorcycle down to the bank to WITHDRAW that GOVERMENT money so you can work 12 hours a week…
MIKE…YOU ARE A SHINING EXAMPLE OF A DOUBLE TALKIN’ SOCIALIST!!!
It’s a SERVICE if YOU collect the money…But it’s a HAND OUT to your TENANTS! As a matter of FACT…That MONEY never even enters the HANDS of your tenants…IT GOES DIRECTLY into YOUR bank account!!
HOW CONVENIENT!!! You don’t even have to ride your MOTORCYCLE down to the bank…IT MIGHT BE RAINING the day you need MONEY to by another REMOTE CONTROLLED AIRPLANE… with TAX PAYER MONEY!!!
I don't SIT HERE and CONSTANTLY CRY about GOVERMENT hands outs.....I also don't sit in CRY on CHRISTMAS, or THANKSGIVING, or 4th of JULY or any of the other Holidays I spend in a FIRE STATION....WORKING!!!
Sorry to hear about that. I don’t work on holidays.
But it's a GREAT INSIGHT into how YOU cope with what you SAY and what you DO......Bitch about GOVERMENT spending NON STOP....But ride your motorcycle down to the bank to WITHDRAW that GOVERMENT money so you can work 12 hours a week.....
MIKE…YOU ARE A SHINING EXAMPLE OF A SOCIALIST!!!
I’ll try to break this to you gently - if I’m a socialist (I’m not) - you are too! I provide a service to the government (housing) and get paid for it. You provide a service to the government (firefighter) and get paid for it. Of course, we both already know that.
Who do you think your BULLSH*TTING Mike??? You WORK whenever that PHONE RINGS…You just like to TELL PEOPLE you only work 12 hours/week when it suits your needs…When a WATER HEATER lets go in one of your UNITS your out there. “I DON"t WORK HOLIDAYS.” What a JOKE…Yea…right…and you ONLY spend 12 hours a week tending to DOZENS of rentals occupied by “LOSERS”
And the DIFFERENCE between you and me IS…
I DON’T constantly BITCH about the GOVERMENT…UNLIKE YOU…Taking GOVERMENT HAND OUT MONEY with one hand and WRITING your BULLSH*T with the other…
I intend to continue to shout it from the rooftops; attend tea parties; march on Washington, etc, etc, etc until we take our country back!
Who do you think your BULLSH*TTING Mike???? You WORK whenever that PHONE RINGS.....You just like to TELL PEOPLE you only work 12 hours/week when it suits your needs....When a WATER HEATER lets go in one of your UNITS your out there. "I DON"t WORK HOLIDAYS." What a JOKE......Yea....right.....and you ONLY spend 12 hours a week tending to DOZENS of rentals occupied by "LOSERS"
You’ve been a landlord, so you KNOW that the 3am water line break or Christmas Day water heater failure is more urban legend than anything else. If my counting is correct, I’m now in my 7th year as a landlord and I have NEVER gotten a call in the middle of the night or on a holiday for some catastrophic failure of anything. In fact, in that 6+ years, I’ve only had maybe 2 water heaters actually fail (I try to replace them BEFORE they fail) and 5 or 6 waterline breaks (mostly from freezing before I installed PEX). I have had a handful of people that made the mistake of calling to inquire about an apartment late at night and they got an earfull! However, to be fair, if I ever do got a call that a water heater has sprung a major leak on Christmas, I would explain to the tenant how to shut off the water to the water heater (using the shutoff valves right on the top of the water heater), and would even go shut it off myself if needed. Obviously, you can’t buy a water heater on Christmas, so I wouldn’t be changing the water heater on Christmas Day, even if I wanted to. So, you are correct, it is possible that I would have to spend 1/2 hour shutting of the water on a failed water heater on a holiday, although it hasn’t happened yet.
Rookie’s the real deal…I’d like to rip his head off sometimes…But the guy’s a straight up CAPITALIST and he ain’t afraid to share his experiences here. Which in my opinion are always interesting…I don’t always agree with him…But the guy’s no dope.
Ty FDjake…I feel the same about you also…I know we butt heads at times but you have a creative business sense…Infact I will IM you later about some thoughts I have on some topics you have discussed here…Buying these props at a deep discount (all cash) and reselling them at a much higher price and then holding the mortgage interests me very much and in my opinion doesnt differ very much from my hard money business…I will IM you later…
Propertymanager (Mike)
I bring this topic up in a respectful tone and as you know I do have experience being a landlord…Have you ever considered selling some of your income properties the way that FDjake and I discussed here…Being that you bought them at a deep discount and have a good amount of equity you could easily sell some of them for a higher price with owner financing…Surely being that you know the real numbers that you net can figure what it needs to be sold for and have the mortgage % at a good rate to insure your net is close to the same…You take a % down on the property and you hold the mortgage for 30 years with a 5 year call if you want…I know when I owned properties there is always one or two that were the lemons of the bunch and this move is perfect for unloading them and making a huge income for years to come still…
I bring this topic up in a respectful tone and as you know I do have experience being a landlord..Have you ever considered selling some of your income properties the way that FDjake and I discussed here..
Rookie,
In a word - no. Actually, I have THOUGHT about just about every aspect of this business and in reality did “sell” a couple of properties on lease-option early on (got them back after tenant left). However, as I said earlier, I believe that just about every business has the same pros and cons. For example, if you “sell” a property here in Ohio on a note (like you’re discussing) and then have to take it back, the foreclosure process can easily take A YEAR. During all that time, the deadbeat is living in your house for free and obviously not doing any maintenance. I’ve seen and bought foreclosed properties enough that I know how they end up. A MONSTER downpayment certainly helps, but very few people have bad credit, yet a big pile of money. I’m not saying it’s a bad business, but in my opinion, it’s no better than the business I have. I have a friend that is now at the two year point in trying to get one of his properties back! UGH!
The same is true of the hard money business. You’re lending money to subprime borrowers - otherwise they certainly wouldn’t be paying hard money rates and fees. With that, you’ll be taking a significant number of those properties back, in various stages of disrepair. Again, I’m not saying that it isn’t a good busienss, but in my opinion, it’s no better than the business I have. Moreover, I like the rental business and I believe that I’m very good at it.
The bottom line is that I’m very content with what I have and don’t plan to change anything. The only thing that would prompt me to buy more properties or change my strategy would be a change in the tax situation -such as drastically higher taxes. In that case, I might be forced to buy a few more rentals to maintain the same income. The socialists are desperately trying to DRASTICALLY raise taxes on everyone and obviously that could force me to modify my plan.
Every single one of my deals and my Hard Money Loans are deed in lieu of foreclosure…I took back one property already and it took days …So Im baffled that your attorneys havent advised you that you dealing with the foreclosure courts is quite the amateur move…There are far more complex ways to structure deals to safeguard yourself from dealing with the masses in the foreclosure courts…And why would an investor be living in NOO property???..I also had a seller forge documents and sell the property and the title comapny had to pay me off recently I made %50 premium to what was owed…Process took 3 extra months and the legal fees were minimal…When done correctly there simply is no comparison to the money that can be made doing hard money vs being a landlord…Zero comparison…Hard Money and holding mortgages is by far light years a better business…Issue is most people dont have the funds to do it,and thats why its not commonly heard about…Lets not forget that Im lending at %50 LTV and taking my years worth of interest and points off the top…So essentially Im into my mortgages at %30 LTV with a signed deed in escrow at my attorneys office…
And why would an investor be living in NOO property???????
Other than a rich investor living in a very expensive apartment in NYC or something like that, I don’t know. I don’t know any investors that live in NOO properties. Did I mistype something in one of my posts?
If you sell a house to a person who stops paying, then the deadbeat is living in your house for free while he is being foreclosed upon. What am I missing here?
Every single one of my deals and my Hard Money Loans are deed in lieu of foreclosure…I took back one property already and it took days …So Im baffled that your attorneys havent advised you that you dealing with the foreclosure courts is quite the amateur move…There are far more complex ways to structure deals to safeguard yourself from dealing with the masses in the foreclosure courts…And why would an investor be living in NOO property???..I also had a seller forge documents and sell the property and the title comapny had to pay me off recently I made %50 premium to what was owed…Process took 3 extra months and the legal fees were minimal…When done correctly there simply is no comparison to the money that can be made doing hard money vs being a landlord…Zero comparison…Hard Money and holding mortgages is by far light years a better business…Issue is most people dont have the funds to do it,and thats why its not commonly heard about…Lets not forget that Im lending at %50 LTV and taking my years worth of interest and points off the top…So essentially Im into my mortgages at %30 LTV with a signed deed in escrow at my attorneys office…
In case you didnt see the last post…And I dont sell to owner occuppied…Only NOO investment properties that get rented out…fwiw you are missing alot…
In short no it doesnt change my mind…To be honest I didnt find the article that bad…Did he flat out call our economy a ponzi scheme…Not exactly…He did make comparisons and suggest that NYC and CA going bankrupt was unthinkable and highly unlikely…And he did say not to bet against the US Govt and that he and many investors should buy what they are buying or piggybacking essentially what I spoke about a week ago here…There is little doubt that the future is a big question mark and keep in mind that Bill Gross manages I think in the area of 100 Billion dollars…With that much capital he has to make very calculated decisons that allow him to stay somewhat liquid if he needs to make a timely exit…Lets look at GS…Where did they make most of their record profits this year???..You guessed right if you say buying toxic assets and or mortgages at pennies on the dollar…They essentially did one better than the LTO loan to own business…Many of the properties they sold in 2007 for record profits they bought back for 20 and 30 cents on the dollar…And why did they do that???..Because they know full well these assets are undervalued now and they captured an enormous arbitrage…Not many hedge funds are playing the LTO business but we have been in this business for 3 years now…So our business model actually profits from this doomsday scenarios because they shake the tree and force weak hands to fold into our laps…Would I bet the farm on the equity markets here…HELL NO…Would I continue buying properties with a LTO business model at 30 cents on the dollar …ALL blankin day long…I follow who is making money and to see the money that GS has made with this model is staggering…My college roommate took home an unheard of bonus from GS this year because his division made record profits doing LTO deals…Bill Gross has to play by a different tune because his business model is far different than ours and managing that size money has his feet held to the fire more than anyone…The future will tell us how this economy weathers this storm…But in the meantime there is serious wealth being created or changing hands however you want to put it…One deal that sticks out in my head is the property/office industrial park that GS sold in 2007 for $300 mill and recently bought back for $80 mill…What about Stuyvesant town in NYC…The biggest Real Estate deal in history done in 2007 for $5.4 Billion…They say that property is worth $2.5 Billion now…I would bet money that GS waits for that to drop a bit more and buys it…Point being it all depends on what business you are in when you consider how bad or how good things are…I personally love the LTO business model but a guy like Bill Gross depends on the good times to keep rolling to manage his returns…
GS can do ANYTHING they want to do because they know that they are 'TOO BIG TO FAIL". That is a big part of the reason that the economy is doomed to fail. They can make ANY bets they want and they have absolutely no risk of failing (until the government fails). GS and the government are for all practical purposes ONE AND THE SAME because they and the other big Wall Street firms no longer must live by capitalist principals. Bet big and win - GREAT! Bet big and lose - YOU WIN ANYWAY because the government won’t allow you to lose. ANY OF US COULD BE BILLIONAIRES UNDER THOSE RULES!
If the government would make me the same deal, I’d be a billionaire in a year. I would give up my 12-16 hour work week, hire a bunch of people and we’d buy every property in sight (not particularly worrying about the price). We’d rent them all out using property managers and I wouldn’t care whether I make a fortune or was in the red by billions. If I made a fortune - GREAT! If I was in the red by billions, the FED would buy my toxic assets and loan me BILLIONS at zero interest. IT’S A PONZI SCHEME as Bill Gross said. There’s no longer anything real in the banking industry/auto industry/Fannie/Freddie, etc, etc, etc. It’s all a scam and the middle class is going to pay the price through its destruction.
mike,
Im not a billionaire nor am I funded by the US govt using tarp funds and I made a killing this year…So I respectfully disagree that you need the govt assistance to make size money…And Bill Gross also said that he recommended partnering up with the govt…I actually recall the comment was underlined in the article also…Had Bill Gross said the US economy was a ponzi scheme which he didnt he wouldnt have said to partner up and follow the govt investment trends because they have the biggest wallet…You seem hell bent to twist this article into your own opinion.And you also need to stop going to that idiotic website infowars…Thats the same nutcase who claimed 9/11 was an inside job…LOL…fwiw had a guy like Bill Gross said the US economy was a Ponzi scheme it wouldve caused a crash in the bond and equity markets…he did not say this and you need to slowly reread this article…
PIMCO’s view is simple: shake hands with the government; make them your partner by acknowledging that their checkbook represents the largest and most potent source of buying power in 2009 and beyond. Anticipate, then buy what they buy, only do it first: agency-backed mortgages, bank preferred stocks, and senior bank debt; Aaa asset-backed securities such as credit card, student loan, and auto receivables. These have been well-advertised PIMCO strategies over the past 6 months but there are others in clear sight.
[iThere is legitimate concern as to the ultimate destination and outcome of our “bailout nation.” Realistically, quantitative easing, a two-trillion-dollar expansion of the Fed’s balance sheet, and the near certainty of future budget deficits approaching 6-7% of GDP should alert bond investors to once again become vigilant as was the case in the 1980s and 90s. Vigilantes we should be, but that is a battle to be fought in the Treasury market where low yields offer little reward and increasing risk. For now, our Ponzi-style economy and its policy remedies encourage bond investors to mimic Uncle Sam and its global compatriots. Buy what they buy, but get there first. Andrew Mellon would surely have disapproved. Liquidation was his game. Wimpy? Well, he’s gonna have to start paying for those burgers on Monday, even in a bailout nation.