Scott Scheel and Dave Lindahl

General Real Estate Investing
21

ok, so whats the bottom line. Did you buy an apartment building for your $15.00 investment in a book?

Seminars aren’t just about information. You can learn that in a book. They are about a lot of other things such as goal setting, developing a plan, Q&A and networking with professionals (who can afford to attend, not just anyone who can go to a free REI meeting).

And just because you already know the information, doesn’t mean others do. If you already know what your doing and are doing it, then there is no reason for you to ever get any more training. I’ve been to a lot of seminars and I prefer the ones that don’t involve bringing in other speakers to sell you their products. That is why I posted my original message. They all teach pretty much the same information.

I dont know what you mean by my pattern. I only post on this message board.

I have been investing for many years and own several rental properties. I know what Im doing because I am educated. I’ve learned from many different sources but one thing is for sure, I dont spend any of my time and energy going around to message boards bashing anyone, certainly not any speakers I haven’t personally heard.

I have a lot of knowledge because I am constantly learning. Lets not waste everyones time in reading our bickering. Email me directly and I will GIVE you my knowledge. Lets keep these forums open for people who want to learn.

22

If you are that successful, please give your knowledge to all of us! If Anthony Minuuto’s way works, please let us know the nitty gritty of just ONE of your deals, done his way, so we can decide if we want to buy the whole package. I mean, doesn’t it make marketing sense? Post one great success candidly and others flock to replicate it? Thats how teachers establish credibility.

As I said, I’m sorry mate. If you don’t post details on this amazing method, I won’t buy that there IS one. The Real Estate field is -swarmed- with pretenders, self help gurus, and many others that will tell you nothing that is actually worth much. Sure, motivation is worth alot ifyou’re not motivated! But, if I want to get motivated, I will go to someone who TELLS me thats why I am going, and what I am getting for my duckets.

As far as networking goes, I can network without spending $5k to attend some speaking engagement. And the millionaire RE investor I do know wouldn’t spend $500 on a meeting unless he knew EXACTLY what he was getting. That is, you see, why I am dubious. Nothing is being disclosed.

PT Barnum said ‘A Sucker is born every minute’, and in confidence games (and motivational speaking circuits) the game is always “upsell positive thinking. If someone criticizes you, become the victim and make like a hero” I’ve seen this before, in news reports, from personal contact with some of the supposed ‘gurus’ and in other venues.

So, please. kmrei and Dmillin please post details as to your Anthony Minuuto style purchases so we can all evaluate them! Once we have verified that it is legit, I am sure he will get more students.

23

Like I said, I have not closed my deal and I already posted where I am to this point. Others have said it but its true that there is no one answer to that questions. If something happens, then you do this, if that happens, then you do that. Each step in the process and lead you into several different directions.

The jist of it is find the deal from associations, mailing lists of owners, internet, brokers and whatever other sources there are. Arrange financing if needed, structure transactions & close with prorations credited to cover closing costs.

Of course theres more to it but think about it… what if I asked to list how you buy a house no money down… the answer is, it depends on several things,… is the seller motivated or not, is there a loan on the property or not? is it in default or not? will the seller take installment payments or not?, does the property need work or not… the answers to all these questions send you in different directions and no one who values their time is going to sit down and post each step (in each direction) unless they have nothing else to do.

buying apartment buildings is totally different then buying houses. the value is based on income and not on comps.

The bottom line is… education and experience is the key to understanding anything. There’s a lot to it and thats why people make boot camps take longer then a few hours. Things need to be explained like how to deal with lenders and which lenders to avoid. how to know how they quote their rates, how to value properties, how to find deals that look bad but might not be (or vise versa), how to negotiation with sellers and brokers, how to find deals and what to stay away from. where not to waste your time and what areas to focus your efforts to get the biggest bang for your time. What differences you have to make to your approach depending the condition of the local market.

Theres just too much information. I’ve giving you all the steps you request although i’m sure its not enough for you. Like I said, if you want to continue this discussion, email me. I’m too busy running my business to attend to message boards. Anyone who wants me to answer any more questions, please email me. dont ask them here because I dont have time to keep checking message boards.

24

Clearly, you are convinced these techniques will work for you, mate. I hope they do, and I wish you luck. One quickie though, you havent disclosed anything on your deal like:

Price vs Market price
Location
Units
Cap Rate
NOI
GOI
Leverage details
Ownership details (Land Trust? Etc)

The odds, though, just aren’t with you. No Money Down ploys are incredibly risky, and often with catastrophic results. You don’t hear about those being advertised though.

Is it possible to make money with a No Money Down deal? Sure!! I mean talk about return on investment… and it is easy enough to get financing for 100% of a property.

Let me quote Robert Griswold, MSBA… active property investor for many years:

“Although (I) do believe it’s possible to find a buyer who is so motivated that she’ll actually pay you to take a property off her hands, the reality is that the vast majority of such properties don’t prove to be very profitable for you in the long run. Ask yourself – why would anyone give away a property unless it has some really serious problems?”

and

“Unfortunately, the infomercials and the real estate gurus have oversold the concept of no money down. Of course this is the best way to achieve incredible rates of return – earning a return without an investment! But the vast majority of properties you can aquire with no money down are properties that you can’t afford to own any more than the seller can.”

So, why on earth would I pay $5k to learn about an investment technique that is riskier than Vegas? And why should anyone else when you can get the fundamentals for $30 to $60 in a few books, written by pros that tell you like it is and don’t fill their books with fluff in the hopes that you’ll go to their seminars?

Thats why I say, AM is a ripoff. Because the whole legitimate industry says he (well, folks like him) is. They say no money down is overinflated pablum designed to part you from your money in seminar fees and books.

In an early post in this thread you said I must have an agenda. I do. I want folks to see both sides of this coin and be able to make a truly informed decision. Thats all it’s about. :slight_smile:

FYI I am very aware of how commercial properties differ from residential values, in that PRICE = NOI / R . What Im not aware of is how you can manage an apt bldg with no money in the bank to cover costs, maintenance, and transitional costs. Unless you just dont pay them.

25

Did you ever go to Scotts Scheels seminar or Dave Lindahls seminar? Have you ever been to any seminar? How about you tell about your success in this business. since you against seminars, how do you learn and how has that form of education resulted in your success?

26

Have you been reading my replies friend?

I’m quoting people whose life’s work has been Real Estate, and whom don’t go out and charge thousands of dollars to tell people how to lose their money in risky negative leverage schemes. Look above. I even mention one by name.

So far, I have invested in a number of asset types, including Real Estate, however through REITs. I decided to become a landlord early this year and I’ve been networking and learning for 6 months now. No, I do not yet own Apartment Buildings.

Thats it. :slight_smile: Now, if you’re going to say “You dont own apt bldgs so you dont have any business talking about this” well I suppose then no history professor whom ever lived should talk about things they never actually saw either.

Point being, I’m not here to prove you wrong. I’m not trying to make anyone look bad. I am trying to present another viewpoint, one shared by the VAST MAJORITY of Real Estate professionals. One untainted by postive thoughtspeak and ridiculous claims. One that doesn’t cost thousands of dollars to find out you were misled.

In the end, it is just my opinion, and the opinion of a few people who are millionaires in this business, one of which I named by name and whom you can check out. He helped write “Real Estate Investing for Dummies” along with Eric Tyson, MBA

Here are a few references: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_archive/2005/06/01/8260929/index.htm

http://www.floridahomeloan.com/2006/05/dont-flip-out-and-quit-your-day-job.html

http://ezinearticles.com/?Building-Wealth:-Dont-Waste-Your-Money-on-Real-Estate-Investment-Schemes&id=83781

Now this whole business with Apartment buildings is a great angle. You can say “Apartment buildings are a whole different market… those old rules dont apply!”. Except they do, and more so.

So, save you money please folks. Read up. Dont be in such a hurry, or the only person who will profit on your quick action will be some guru who has bought his home with 25% down on a fixed interest 30 year mortgage from NYMC. If you really want to be successful in foreclosures, REO, and other risky markets, real investors have said that you should get into Real Estate small time first. Be a Landlord for awhile. Then you can graduate, after you have proved your mettle and folks take you more seriously.

27

i think the question was about Scott Scheel and Dave Lindahl, we dont want to hear any personal fights, so if u dont have to say anything about this 2 guys, Scott and Dave) please keep it to your self. :slight_smile:

28

Apologies friend, I wasn’t trying to start a flame war :slight_smile: I was trying to prevent a marketing plebe from bilking people out of their money.

In an angular way, my comment -is- about those fellows. If you follow the links I posted above, you’ll see how.

29

anyone else has any experience with either of these 3 speakers? i find these courses to be quite useful and want to hear from others who have done the courses and tried applying it. i am on the proces of applying it at present, still a few missing pieces, but a matter of putting the zigsaw together now.

30

I went to Scott and Dave seminars, and i bought both of their material, they are both good, but the quality of Dave’s cd’s are terrible!!!, i couldnt understand whats he was saying on the cd’s, so i complain, and i receive a e-mail from dave explaining that i "might " have one bad cd, so he gave me a phone number for costumer service, but it was useless, they ony sent me 1 cd, out of the 12 that he has, and it was even worst, so i sent another e-mail to Dave, and he never reply to me, and its been 5 moths.

Scott is good and usefull if you have parners with money, but in all of his deals he always"forgets " to include the 20-25% down payment that you are getting somewhere, (hardmoney,parners, etc) , so if you go to his website he has an example of a house and a multiunit, and you see the difference, (and you say WOW!!) but he never include the expenses, (42%), vacancy ratio (5%)taxes, insurance etc, etc, so i sent an e-mail too, explaining that they need to tell the people that is more involved with the numbers, and they reply to me asking me if i was a student, when i said yes, they didnt reply to me again…\ :frowning:

Some of the examples he doesnt include the debt cover ratio, so obviously the cashflow is great, but then when you put it in real numbers (with debt cover ratio included) is not so great, …so basically you need money, at least for the appraisals,($3000 min), land surveys, etc.

The software is great thought, same as David software, but the audio cd,s sucks.

31

I agree. I have both Scotts and Daves material and Daves stuff is extremely poor quality. Scott also leaves out a lot. And buy the way… Scotts numbers don’t add up on the deal that he mentions was his first.

He says he bought a 24 unit apartment building for $918,000 in Cleveland which was mostly seller financed and he got a private lender to give him the money for the down payment. He then says he refinanced and pulled out $848,000. That means that this 24 unit in Cleveland was worth close to 2 million dollars. anyone who knows anything about Cleveland real estate knows no 24 unit is worth 2 million.

A 24 unit in Cleveland is worth about 1 million. My guess is he he paid off his seller with private lender funds and then he refinanced out 80% of his equity out to pay back his private lender.

32

Interesting.
Every course I have aquired in the past I have returned for a refund.

The quality sucked and the numbers were bogus.

Is it that these guys couldn’t make it in real estate so they sell tapes.

I’m with knome. There are plenty of real people out there doing the deal that will work with you and give you advice.

33

Has anyone else been to Anthony’s seminar? I have heard it is very good. I’m trying to figure out how he buys with no money down on his deals.

34

I’m so excited about this that I just had to reply to your message. I was going to wait until next week to post a reply to your message but I had to tell someone.

I went to Anthony’s seminar back in October and learned a lot. It was awesome. I took what I learned and starting using it and this Wednesday I’m closing on my first apartment building. It has 57 units and I’m buying it with no money.

After I close, I’ll give you details.

35

awesome I would love to hear about it.

36

I too would love to hear about this. If you could, provide us with actual numbers and proof. However, I doubt this information will be presented - please prove me wrong!

37

Nate,

All that is really needed to evaluate the deal are the gross rents and the purchase price. One thing is certain. With 57 units, it won’t take long to find out if this is a good deal or not!

Mike

38

I guess I jinxed it.

The closing is being delayed because of some issues with the title that we thought wouldn’t be a problem but it turns out it might be. So we may have to renegotiate.

Once we get this cleared up, I’ll post the details of the transaction.

39

I’m little confused here, I have Scott’s course and he does go over the numbers and how to buy with no money down. His software also breakdown the costs to help you evaluate the deal. I am not sure if I have a different course or version of the course, but I found it to be very informative although, I would have liked to hear more on the financing side of it.

40

Never been to any seminars but have done a lot of investing myself and have a score multi-millionaire clients, including developers, industrial, and multis. Not only would they caution against no-money down deals, much less attempt one themselves. No money down is incredibly risky. You are much more likely to crash and burn and be out of real property forever than to make $1. Leave 100% financing to first time homebuyers. :slight_smile: Also you do sound like promoters with very little experience. In one post you say you have been investing for years, Dmillin, and in the next that you haven’t yet closed on your deal. There are better ways to learn than seminars. Find a good commercial broker in your area and I’m sure he will be happy to answer any questions you may have about investing.