Property Ladder TV show on TLC

Rehabbing, Fix and Flip, Rental Properties
21

The new one last night had me questioning it all…

When they said it cost them $12,000 to rehab my first reaction was “yah right”

I was also a bit confused as to why exactly they ran out and bought 3 properties at once as “first timers”, when it took them over 12 weeks to just finish one of them. Unless the deals were just THAT good to make it worth making a loan payment on for a few months while the house sits.

The show uses a lot of sweat equity too, which increases the profits and makes the show that much better !

Hard to belive they made 80k profit off 1 condo that sold for 235k

22

Markw…

Last night was my first time watching…what a pair of putzes…atleast their hearts were in the right place. I agree with you, there is NO WAY they bought new appliance, painted everything, put in an outdoor shower (complete with plumbing, etc.), new travertine floors pretty much throughout (installed by tile guys) and new carpet where they didn’t put stone, and only spent $12K…not bloody likely! They spent almost that much in refrigerators!

They didn’t hit a lick of work for almost 6 weeks after the hostess helped them rip up carpets. At first I thought that

In the end, they did wind up getting $250K.

I asked the same question – why would first-timers buy 3 at once AND have fulltime jobs?

I must be doing something wrong! LOL

Keith

23

I believe they bought 3 props. Just look at what kind of people they are. I would be the same way. Paint an air duct covering and go soak in the jacuzzi :smiley:

Anyway, the show does not figure in the help from friends and others. Most likely these people are being paid after the sale, but the show does not disclose this. They most likely bought all 3 props at once thinking it was easy to rehab and flip.

I can see how they came close to 12k on supplies. They did a lot on their own. Just look at the texas two-some episode. They were out there every day all day for months doing all the hard work.

The show should say that if you don’t like to work or have talented friends, you cost will be MUCH higher.

I about died laughing from refrigerator-gate. In the end, the one they took was probably $1000. I was just out pricing them the other day and that should be close.

If you watched the show the past few weeks you noticed a trend. Bumbling idiots come out ok in hot markets. The texas two-some just about made zip in a weaker market. So if it is your first time, do it in a higher priced growing market.

That show is dangerous though. You see these dumb people doing all sorts of bad moves and coming out ok. I bet many viewers are thinking, if they can do it so can I. They should go into a little more detail to do the situation justice.

24

My wife made a good comment: How would you like to be the people that bought this house that they were going to sell at $220K for $250K and then seen the footage of the show!

25

Well they took the first offer and it was what they asked. The better question is how do you feel knowing you just bought a property without knowing the market too well and giving the seller the asking price with no negotiation?

I mean geez. Even when I went to the flea market as a little boy to buy Nintendo games, I haggled.

Too many people buy property like they buy soup in a grocery store. Well George, it says right there $250,000 so that is what I must pay. Can you double bag that please?

That show was an excellent example of you can’t get it unless you ask for it. In most markets, people are not just going to throw money at you. If they asked 220k, they would have received a 220k offer and took it. They would have lost 30k because they did not ask for it.

Better yet, is it me or is pricing a condo complete guestimation?

26

There is zero doubt in my mind, people will be jumping into rehabbing/flipping because of this show. Heck, I think one of them just outbid me, by a substantial amount, on a house that had been on fire. My Realtor and I had a good laugh over it. The bank and I were so close to a deal, and then they received an almost retail offer. The new owners get what they deserve (wouldn’t they like to know the bank would have accepted $30k less?). Look for the house that’s been on fire in an Atlanta suburb on a future show ;D

I definitely appreciate the sweat equity they are putting into their properties. Clearly that is how some are keeping their costs down. I wish I saw refrigerator-gate, it sounds like I missed a good one.

I really enjoy everyone’s posts – thank you for the smiles.
Tami

27

The refrigerator thing was a hoot! The hostess told them to pay a little extra and get a counter-depth fridge (it was a small kitchen without a lot of room to move around). Of course, the two idiot ‘dudes’ were smarter than she so the bought a huge black fridge that left about 2 feet to move past it. They actually measured it in the showroom and said it would fit but then they got it home and the fridge had the cooling fins in the back (about 5" of lost space) plus it was hitting the valve for the icemaker that stuck out of the wall (another 4" lost). They actually asked the delivery guy if they could take the fins of back (I was crying by then!)…

Next they got a large side-by-side that didn’t stick out as far but it was still overwhelming for the kitchen…the one brother loaded it up while his brother was out and hauled it back to the store and got a 3/4 size “dorm room” fridge. They put a large microwave on top of it and it still didn’t even come close to the cabinets!

It is satisfying to know that if two idiots from Chicago can do it, it should be a breeze for most of us! The only thing that saved them was that they WERE in California. If you are looking for the “greater fool”, you’ve got a ‘target-rch’ environment there!!!

And, yes, Evergreen, condo pricing is a SWAG, even on good days. I guess it goes to show that real estate is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay!

Keith

28

I love this show. There are a lot of good comments on here about it. I have seen all 4 epsiodes so far. Here are my observations:

Texas girls: I don’t think they worked every day on the rehab, but I suppose they put in 350 hours each over the 4 months. As stated by others, the numbers they give don’t include holding costs, closing costs, and Realtor fees. I calculate that they only made a net profit of $1,000 on this place. They were in way over their heads here. But I admire their hard work and I hope they get their breast implants, for a peak I might just chip :slight_smile:

Sales guy Anthony Townhouse: He paid to much going in for this townhouse. I calculate he netted about $25,000 after all expenses. Probably $25,000 of that $25,000 was because of the huge Appreciation during that time period in the SoCal market. He also got $10,000 in free labor from his father and brother. His idea to take out perfectly good Kitchen tile was the most ridculous of any episode.

Bartender girl Beach Condo: She was the worst. The only reason she made money off of this Condo was because of appreciation. She flirted a lot of free/cheap labor from her Bar buddies, and what was with that one troll guy that was there most of the time in the background, he was like the cuckheld silent partner that wasn’t allowed in front of the cameras. I estimate that she netted $20,000 after all expenses, Probably $25,000 of that $20,000 was because of the Appreciation Bubble in SoCal. Her profit was a total fluke of appreciation, she showed good judgment in putting the money towards that valuable Art History Graduate degree rather than into another RE project. She can always make good money as a stripper/parttime actress/parttime barmaid.

The Brothers Palm Springs Condo: These guys were not newbies. This was their third rehab. The 41 year had a custom cabinet making business, hence he surely knew a lot about rehabbing. I don’t believe the balding guy was 26. I thought they bought at a good price and did a good job. The drama that the show tried to impart about the Taxes and the delays were stricly for show. I estimate that they netted $50,000 after all expenses. But at least $25,000 of that $50,000 was SoCal aprreciation.

29

A little sex goes a long way :smiley:

On the California bros, this was not their 3rd rehab, it was the 3rd property they bought to rehab. This was the first one they actually completed and sold. The other 2 were just sitting there. According to the show, they were paying about $7,300 monthly in mortgage to hold all the properties.

I can’t wait to see the next episode. I really want to see more rehab work in down markets like Ohio, where rapid appreciation can’t help. Think about it. In Vegas, where the market is currently soft, homes go up 1% monthly. That is $3k per month on a median valued home. If you took 5 months to rehab and sell, you have $15k in appreciation. This means you could be semi poor with your numbers and still come out ok. In a hot market, this is even greater. However, in say Ohio, you buy a home potentially worth 100k and that is what it will be worth in 5 months.

Well, off to the bar to flirt for help lol :smiley:

30

I would love to see more soft-market work too! I am thoroughly enjoying the shows. Rehabbing is hard work, especially if you are down in there doing the work too. I always do some work on my properties myself. It’s a great way to keep an eye on your crews too. Some hate it, and I’ve had contractors ask me not to show up. I have a standard reply, “You mean at my house? See you tomorrow.” I’ve made mistakes too but I would NEVER have torn out a perfectly good tile floor.

Evergreen, I’ll see you at the bar – I need some heavy-duty landscape work done. And, there isn’t much they can steal LOL.

Jack, your post killed me! I’m still laughing at your assessment of the Bartender Beach Condo Girl and your future career choices for her.

Everyone wish me luck, I should be hearing very soon on a huge two story, 3/2, three-car garage on a fenced acre that I bid on last week. This one has ‘issues’ with the plumbing between the floors. If the “I-don’t-know-what-I’m-doing, but-this-sounds-like-a-great-price-to-me” Folks don’t throw the full asking price on the table again, I should be OK. However, with the luck I’ve been having – I won’t count on it LOL.

Take care!
Tami

31

“Well, off to the bar to flirt for help lol”

I’ll just bet you’ll get some beauties to help you, evergreen!

Stop, you’re killing me!

32

GOOD LUCK, Tami!

33

Good luck Tami!

Anyone know who won the next food network star contest? :smiley:

34

I must have missed that part where they said that the Brothers had not started on the other two rehabs yet. But the older Brother had “Carpenter” written all over him.

35

Like that older brother huh :smiley:

The part on the properties was a one-liner. Not important though. Both of them brought 1 screwdriver to the property to rehab it lol. They did not know what to do.

Now, their friend was a different story. He had tools and knew what he was doing.

This next episode should be good. Looks like 2 guys are doing the rehab BUT they have an investor. I saw one line where one of the guys tells the investor “we are under budget” and the investor replies “No we’re not.”

Can’t wait :smiley:

36

Sounds like the new Georgia investors to me! Wonder if it was a flat head or philips :o

I still haven’t heard on my bid, but I appreciate all the well wishes – I’ll keep you posted. If the idiot bidders leave me alone my net will be around $30K - and not the TV way. Or you’ll see the property on TV, all rehabbed and being sold, in a day. As the yahoos tear out all the upstairs subflooring, any and all plumbing, ceilings from below and start over, rather than fix the true problems. Frankly I don’t think the TV market will touch my area. It’s too… S-O-F-T – but hello, it’s Georgia, everything is slow here. $30K for two month’s work is very good down here – VERY. Especially now that I’m competing with every new dork investor – and I do get it done in two months. Otherwise everyone working for me wishes they don’t LOL.

I’m happy with renting them out for now. I’ve been very lucky or stupid – you’re call. My mortgages are paid and on time, I put overages in the bank. However, I rent on my gut now more than credit records. I’ve done the thorough checks and they screwed me over more than those trying to rebuild their lives. I just signed a lease today on a home – for a year, and when I was done making this man and wife initial each and every page, he asked me if he could buy the house at the end of the term. LOVE THAT – the answer is – we shall see, but I know giving them the option will make them take care of the property.

BTW yet another reason to work in your own properties, this happened to me daily when I was there, potential renters and/or buyers show up all the time. You cannot rely upon some contractor to sell or rent your property like you can. And, I didn’t need to furnish it to get business done. Of course, I did have to ask the potential renter/buyer to have vision (which no one but us has). They cannot see where you are going in the end, but if you have a phone number, you can call them and invite them back, “for a special tour before you open the house to everyone else.” It works, I’ve used this to actually flip other homes.

I’m so sorry my posts are so long! Take care all, and thank you again!
Tami

37

Should see some of my posts. I tend to ramble on and on when I like something.

Where in Georgia? I have been looking at Houston for rental props.

38

"It’s too… S-O-F-T – but hello, it’s Georgia, everything is slow here. "

It’s rule #3 of the Southerner’s code: “We don’t do ‘hurry up’ real well”!

Keith – native New Englander!

39

I like the areas south of Atlanta and that means outside of the Hwy. 285 circle. Inside and immediately around it, is really a life or death situation and I’m not willing to die over a property. That area is being rehabbed by developers who can do massive amounts of work at one time. It starting to looking nice, I am positive the hookers love their new views :smiley:

I pulled together a bunch of data and dropped it into a spreadsheet. The results were amazing and that helped me narrowed my focus. I used crime stats, owner occupant %, rental occupant %, vacancy ratios, median income, median values, etc. I don’t like to be in areas where everything is a rental – for example College Park, Georgia 57% of the houses are rentals, but get this stat – another 25% are vacant. The crime rate for both property and person is an 8 (1-10 scale, 10 being worst). You won’t find me there LOL.

The city where I live is entirely too expensive for investment property, unless you can get something off the court house steps (yep that is how they do it here, I’ve been to a few auctions). I have watched million dollar homes go on the steps to the highest bidder – people show up with $500-$700K and bid against each other, it’s fun. The banks always protect their investment by opening the bid at the loan value plus all legal fees. Then it is up for grabs. You need to have cash – there are hundreds of thousands of dollars standing out on the steps the first Tuesday of the month in every county in Georgia. If you know your market, you can make tons of money. The foreclosures are advertised by law for one month prior to the sale. It’s very easy to find them and do your research.

The problem with the court steps for the areas I’m looking is that most of the foreclosures are relatively new purchases. The buyer hasn’t paid much down on their loans, however, they’ve lived there long enough to entirely trash the place. So you get a house that could be at 90% of the value, and also pay legal fees. No thanks, I’ll let the banks get it on their books and then make an offer. Another pitfall is if the owner files bankruptcy within 30 days of a court steps sale, the house goes back to them and you get your money back – without interest.

So to answer your original question ROFL! The areas I like a lot are: Jonesboro (parts), Ellenwood, Rex, Stockbridge, McDonough and if you like the higher-end properties Fayetteville. There are two military bases closing on the south side, so stay out of Lake City, Forest Park and Conley. People are smart so they are putting their houses on the market now. It’s going to be a disaster very soon – hey, let’s hope all the people constantly outbidding me go there for the deals LOL.

All of the locations I like have rental ratios of around 11-13%, vacancy ratios of 2-6% and an easy commute to Atlanta.

Yet another long winded answer :slight_smile: Have a great day all. And if anyone is interested in properties were I’ve mentioned, I know the markets extremely well, if you have something in mind drop it to me in e-mail and I’ll let you know what’s up with it, there is no doubt I’ve been by it and probably inside LOL. You can search the areas at GAMLS.com.

Tami

40

Episode 5 review, The former Frat Brothers:

Yet another SoCal rehab. The numbers, based upon my estimates;

$560,000 purchase price
75,000 rehab cost
18,000 holding and closing costs, and Seller concessions
7,000 estimated loan points (1.5 points* $460,000 loan)
$750,000 resale price

$90,000 net profit (split three ways)

The biggest problem in estimating these profits is guessing how much the Seller concession is (Seller paid points and closing costs, repair credits)and what they are paying for loan points/fees. On a $750,000 house the seller concession could be zero or it could be $20,000. I estimated $5,000 for this calculation. I really think the producers are intentionally deceptive in this regard.

I estimate that $40,000 of that $90,000 was SoCal bubble market appreciation, but $50,000 split three ways is still a good solid profit.

They got a little lucky in that they didn’t have to pay a Buyer’s broker in this situation.

The producers tried to make a big deal out of the money partner’s concerns about holding costs, I just wasn’t seeing it.

The biggest criticisms I had with their work were the laminate flooring, the brown paint and the Claw foot tub. I throw tubs like that away.