NC H.B. 725

General Real Estate Investing
21

After posting on discussion boards probably over 5000 times, reading thousands of posts, and being a Moderator on two of the largest discussion boards, I have categorized posters from my perspective.

  1. New person , who posts questions like what is P.I.T.I. or various beginner questions along those lines. This usually raises the hair on the back of most serious investors, however we answer politely to get the new person started and rightfully so.

  2. Junior Investor is a person who has done a few deals and is still looking for advice to help them progress in there careers and answer sincerely when they can.

  3. Senior Investor has done enough deals that they can post with confidence in answering most questions asked.

  4. Pro investor, who has done a serious amount of deals and answers the tough posts that posters have and you know by reading how they post they have done deals.

  5. Plant Poster, this is a person who is sent in to promote someone usually they have a few posts and will ask questions like has anyone heard of Joe Guru, then someone with a few or one post will say, “I made super money following Joe Guru.” Easy to spot.

  6. Troll Poster, now this is the tricky one, they start in by answering every post with the same answers maybe worded a little differently because that is the extent of their knowledge, but still are promoting someone’s product and are very close to a Board Hustler status.

  7. Board Hustler, looking for the new person and tries to impress them with their knowledge, however is looking to do a walletectomy on them. They are subtle in their posts by letting you know they can mentor you.

  8. Text Book Poster, one of my favorites from a few years ago was a person let’s call him Derrick and he referred to himself as he was your Huckleberry and this is a true story.

If you asked about the “DOS?” he said “Yada Yada Yada Pact Trust”, if you said “is a land trust the way to go?” he said “Yada Yada Yada Pact Trust”, if someone asked “is Subject To the way to go?” he said “Yada Yada Yada Pact Trust”, if someone asked “how can I make the sunrise? he said “Yada Yada Yada Pact Trust”. What I saw was he was cutting and pasting out of his course text book using school theory and never really answering the posters question to help them. Reasoning says that’s all he knew what to do as he probably had never done any real deals to do anything else, but post that way.

Gary watching you post is like déjà vu from a few years ago and I know you want to know what happened to Derrick, he went off into the sunset going “Yada Yada Yada I don’t think anyone is listening!”

John $Cash$ Locke

22

You quote Bill Bronchick, and then in another post say his land Trust form is in correct. Which is to create a trust, name a trustee, and then have the seller assign you his beneficial interest. Bill Doesn’t promote your trust as far as I know.

But maybe he does.

I do know from several lawyers in Michigan that using a trust to transfer beneficial interest does violate the DOS because the occupancy rights have been transfered. It just does not get recorded as several of the courses suggest so it does not get caught. Does your transfer get recorded?

But as usual Gary, your defense of the NARS Trust gets in the way of what I was trying to suggest, namely that maybe we have a perception problem in this country. That problem being that Investors are crooks in the eyes of the popular press and trying to concoct a scheme, legal or otherwise that seems to be hiding something makes RE Investors look bad.

But since you apparently make money selling and being a certified expert on these complicated NARS Trusts, explain this…

Gary, What is the purpose of your NARS trust? To hide something? To get around the DOS? To prove that you can concoct a complicated process to get around the DOS and not have any one know about it? Or are you just trying to impress us that you can buy property without anyone knowing about and making it seem that the seller still has control of the property.

And no I can not grasp how in one answer to my posts you say that the beneficial interest is transferred by calling it a personality and then in another saying that transferring the beneficial interest is illegal.

The Garn st. Germaine act says the trust is okay so long as the rights of occupancy have not been transferred, which is the same thing as a beneficial interest. And if for some reason it doesn’t do this how am I to buy a property and sell it, if I do not have the rights to do so. or is this just a lease or purchase option.

But then again Gary never you mind. I am not capable of grasping your NARS Trust. I am capable of grasping what Bill Bronchick has in his articles.

Maybe you need to consider translating it down to my level. I am a lowly carpenter. Simple minded that I am I need simple instructions. I can only read what I have and interpret it as I see it based on what I understand of common sense. Your Nars seems to contradict itself, at least in your explanations. Maybe I need to see a layman’s translation so I don’t need 8 years of additional schooling to grasp it. Like I said Bill Bronchick I understand, this Nars I don’t.

Personality, funny I thought that people had personality, not objects, but there goes the Objectivist in me again.

23

Gentlemen,
Now, now…let’s get past the nit-picking. You both have very valid points and are obviously extremely well versed in your particular methods. It’s been my experience there is ALWAYS more than one way to skin a cat, pardon the colloquialism. IMHO, the methods preferred by an individual investor is directly related to his penchant for risk; same as with the stock market. There are a myriad of ways to structure a deal: John you prefer one way; Gary yet another. Who’s right? Both of you, in your individual way with your unique personalities. I appreciate both of you gents. Thanks for the education.
Regards,
Dave

24

David,

Since you are a NARS person also, you should understand what is going on at least the context of your posts are not cut & paste, even though I just deleted one of your posts for breaking the “Contact Me” rules, so I figure your post here had nothing to do with that fact.

Who’s right? When Gary shows me his 500+ deals with or without using a Land Trust, he then will get my attention. His web sites were created this month Jan 06 and he joined here in October 05 and it shows on Bill’s board Dec 05, athough he says he has been there a long time, I just don’t remember seeing him when I visited. In other words who is this new person with no credibilty telling anyone how to invest, even Bill asked me one time how I got as far as I did on the course writing circuit, it had taken him years to get where I was, my reply was I not only talk the talk I can walk the walk.

Bill and I had even talked about doing a REISurvior site having teams compete against one another, until I decided to stop selling my course. So you see Bill and I understand one another, but some new face on the block acting like he can walk the walk annoys me until he proves himself, by the way he posts.

Bet you didn’t know all that?

There is no nit-picking and you know who Derrick is just ask him what happened “YADA YADA YADA he got caught”, but let him tell you the story.

John $Cash$ Locke

25

Hey John Locke.

You need to work on your memory, John. All that hair on your avatar doesn’t appear on your actual picture. For your edification:

Here’s a link to some references: http://garymialocq.com/gmcsvocrehab/id17.html

Here’s a link to companies for whom I have worked as a paid consultant: http://garymialocq.com/gmcsvocrehab/id13.html

Here’s a link confirming I played pro golf: http://user148333.websitewizard.com/images/holeinone.jpg

Nobody has attacked you or your 500+ deals or asked what kind of man puts a $ in his name. I don’t care what you believe. I retired from my counseling job in 2003 and took the accredited NARS course. I haven’t done 500+ deals, but I have bought and sold real estate since 1978 using creative financing techniques and have put over six figures in my pocket since using the NARS Trust.

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As to framer35, I’m afraid the '60’s were too good to you. You can’t seem to grasp a simple concept. You say "I do know from several lawyers in Michigan that using a trust to transfer beneficial interest does violate the DOS because the occupancy rights have been transfered. " WRONG. THE TRUST IS SET UP AND TITLE ASSIGNED TO THE TRUSTEE. THAT IS LEGAL AND ANYONE CAN DO IT. NO OCCUPANCY RIGHTS HAVE BEEN AFFECTED. THE SELLER HAS SIMPLY FOLLOWED A HIGHLY RECOMMENDED ASSET MANAGEMENT STRATEGY. ANYTHING DONE WITHIN THE TRUST IS LEGALLY UNRECORDED UNDER FEDERAL LAW. When the property is transferred, the "Beneficial Interest " is assigned, therefore nothing changes at the courthouse, and the Beneficiary(s) and the Trustee signs a document called “Assignment of Beneficial Interest”.

In the Land Trust, the Beneficial Interest is not an interest in real estate, therefore a judgment against you personally, will not automatically attach to your properties allowing you to move your properties using the Land Trust procedures. GET IT???

My Trustee attended the University of California at San Diego and is a graduate of the FBI National Academy. He holds a lifetime teaching credential and has a background of over 20 years in Law Enforcement both in Command and Administrative Positions, retiring in 1979 as an Area Commander. His experience and integrity have been confirmed by the Court as an appointed Referee and Receiver by the Superior Court. Tom is a man of vision with enormous entrepreneurial skill and ability. He has been involved in the Real Estate and Mortgage Industry since 1976. DO YOU REALLY THINK THIS MAN IS GOING TO DO ANYTHING ILLEGAL? IF SO, YOU ARE MORE HOPELESS THAN I IMAGINED.

Read my lips. I DON’T SELL TRUSTS. I USE THEM AS AN INVESTOR TO ACQUIRE AND MANAGE PROPERTY.

You say Garn-St. Germain is OK as long as occupancy rights have not been transferred. THEY HAVE NOT SO WE ARE IN COMPLIANCE. THE OCCUPANCY RIGHTS ARE ASSIGNED WITHIN THE TRUST, NOT TRANSFERRED. Get it?

You admit you don’t get it – so why keep trying? Maybe you should stick to your own method and leave strategies that are too much for your mind to grasp to others with more ability to do so. It’s guys like you who give Michigan a bad name. You say you are only a carpenter. Don’t feel bad – so was Jesus.

26

Gary,

You are wrong I do get it.

Your reply in essence says: “Yada Yada Yada, I counsel people, I play golf and in 28 years of real estate investing I have not done 500 deals.”

Let me give you a lesson in marketing since you picked up the $ sign off a web site where a unknown person is knocking all course writers to sell his own product.

$Cash$ stands out no matter whether on a discussion board or when a seller looks at it. It is not forgetable and has instant recognition. I use it for Branding what I do, in my post cards, billboards, bandit signs, print ads etc.

I just anwered a post where someone was asking for a review of their web site and what I said was you are missing the most important part in your web site the headline. “If you spend $1 buck on an ad, 80 cents of that should be spent on the headline or you just wasted a buck.?”

$ is in my headline in all my marketing and it must work, 500 +.

If there is anything else I can help you understand about real estate investing you let me know, because most of your response to me today is elsewhere in your posts and just another cut and paste job.

Bet you’re glad you asked.

John $Cash$ Locke

PS: Framer35 I understand the Attorney General in Michigan is trying to stop creative investing there because of an article that was written about some corse writers and their tactics. Would you please check and see if my name is on this report, it should be easy to spot just look for the $ sign.

27

You misread my post again, John. I never said you didn’t get it. That was addressed to framer35 who doesn’t get much. If you play golf, John, name your time and place and bring your wallet. And I picked up the dollar sign from this forum. Prior to that I had never heard of you.

28

Gary, I don’t think naming your trustee has any relevance to anything…and I have to question why you keep naming him and the equity trust company…unless you are using that to promote the NARS trust.

The above is something I believed from reading your posts. Everything is about NARS trusts. YOU offer consulting services. That is ok, but the information and advice you give on these forums can’t be used unless someone pays for the NARS trust. Unless there is somewhere where investors can do this themselves…example, like buying a regular land trust course, or an LLC course, or a corp course…then it is self promoting your services.

Bottom line to me, if the only way a person can use a NARS, or set one up, is through you or your mentor, then anytime you suggest people use one, it is nothing but self promoting, which in my opinion is a violation of forum rules.

If a course is available which allows investors to set up and use a NARS trust without using someones services every single time, then I will correct my opinion. I want it clear I have nothing against a NARS trust. But i do have a problem is there is only one way to use it…and that one way is using you or your mentors services.

These forums are best served if used for discussions, and having questions answered. If any answer points someone to a place where the only way to do something is to use a certain persons services, then it has no right being in these forums.

The above is all my opinion only. I am very blunt, and I think these forums have gotten out of hand in the last 2-3 months. I hope something is done about it. I know others agree with me too.

Regards, Tony.

29

Tony,

Anyone can set up a NARS trust. You do not have to be a member. Just call NARS or visit their website.

I don’t offer my services to set up a trust. I use the trust to acquire and manage properties. I’m a NARS member to take advantage of the 50% discount and the tremendous knowledge available to me through its members, leader, discussion forum and legal staff. I like knowing that when I use a land trust, it has been reviewed and approved by not only the legal staff but by accounting as well.

I mention the Trustee because other land trusts advocate naming a friend or associate as Trustee. This can be risky as to liability and lead to the type of fraud that was conducted in NC. The trustee I use is a non-profit corporation and the man who is the Trustee is beyond reproach. This is a big distinction that I believe is important to anyone considering the use of a land trust.

I have posted on dozens of topics unrelated to a NARS trust and will continue to do so.

The course available to investors to set up and use a NARS Trust is Bill Gatten’s which qualifies as Continuing education in California by the Department of Real Estate.

30

Gary,

Here are two REI Club rules you broke just today.

No Duplicate Posts - do not post the same or similar post in more than one place;

No Advertising - do not post advertisements, solicitations, or offer your services;

Solicitation: for Bill Gatten’s products many times present and in the past.

“Anyone can set up a NARS trust. You do not have to be a member. Just call NARS or visit their website.”

“The course available to investors to set up and use a NARS Trust is Bill Gatten’s”

“I’m a NARS member to take advantage of the 50% discount”

Same or Similiar post: Your cut and paste the same information about the Trustee, the name NARS, etc.

“The trustee I use is a non-profit corporation and the man who is the Trustee is beyond reproach.”

From now on we will see how many of your posts will stay up when they violate the rules.

John $Cash$ Locke