Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?

Financing, Hard Money Lenders, Private Money
21

I just think we come from two different belief and goal points of view, that’s all, Brooke. And I certainly apologize to you if I gave the impression I was attacking you. I certainly don’t want you walking away, thinking this was a fight…because I never felt that way.

You are correct about qualification with the MMA as well. I have an agent in Texas, and he has to do all his sales OUTside his state, due to their unique laws, compared to the rest of the country. Also, if people simply don’t have the credit score (600+) to qualify, that ousts them as well. So, I understand.

I simply have a different way of looking at people’s needs, that’s all. No one system, nor opportunity will work for all. That I can agree upon. Some will go with the MMA, some with your suggestions, and some with others we have not discussed.

You have a distinct advantage over me, however Brooke: you offer both sides of the coin.

Best to you and your clients, Brooke—and I hope we parted as friends.

Have a great day.
-Jaime Buckley

22

Jaime,

Please follow the following link to a white paper on research that was done by the Fedreal Reserve bank of Chicago.

http://www.chicagofed.org/publications/workingpapers/wp2006_05.pdf

As you will read in the white paper it is explained that pre-paying your mortgage in advance as opposed to putting the money in a tax-advantaged savings account is not a good idea. It is 58 pages long, but anyone reading it can get the gist from just reading abstract. Hope this helps.

23

Christopher,

Just a simple principle here concerning Banks.

Banks make money off of your bondage. They make money when you owe, they don’t when you don’t.

WHY would any correct thinking person take the advice of a Bank, when it comes to getting out of debt?

Of COURSE they want you to invest and not pay off the home! I just took $109,000 AWAY from MY Bank!

…come on, really. Keep your report.

24

Jaime,

You seem like a bright enough guy, but with the MOUNTAIN of evidence contrary to your way of thinking one would assume that you would at least grasp the concept that tax write-offs are good and compunded interest is better. I understand that you have a product to market and that it would be probably against your better financial interests to admit that you are incorrect. Good luck with your MMA.

25

I have a home to write off taxes.

The Bank is earning “compound interest” on ME—and this program is helping me save my money, and protect me from that.

There is nothing wrong with anything I have stated, nor in what I have shown. I’m not incorrect Christopher…I just see things black and white in this issue. What I propose has always worked, and still works.

None of you have yet to show me my way of thinking doesn’t work. Instead, you keep pushing my way of thinking is ‘old hat’. Hey, I’m perfectly fine with that. I’ve just asked to be shown where I am wrong.

You just want to prove your way is BETTER. Make that clear Christopher. My way isn’t wrong…it’s just not your way.

Isn’t that right?

26

Yes, that is exactly right. Although I would not call it “my” way. I would call it the “smart” way. Your way involves having someone pay off their home early which in turn causes them to lose their largest tax write-off while also having then tie up thousands of dollars in their home that they DO NOT have access to. If they want access to it they have to apply for a mortgage and hope they can qualify. If you add all of this to the fact that ALL of the money tied up in the home earns ZERO rate of return they would be better off burying it in their backyard because at least then they could get to it if they needed to.

27

Good grief.

Your way involves having someone pay off their home early which in turn causes them to lose their largest tax write-off while also having then tie up thousands of dollars in their home that they DO NOT have access to.

Did you even READ my posts, Christopher?

Let me ask you this: Why do you and so many people keep trying to convert me to your point, and keep assuming I have to stop purchasing property and increasing my cash flow? I keep saying over and over...simply buy another property (since you have now BECOME THE BANK), and offset all these issues!

Is there something I’m missing, that I only GET tax benefits if it’s a home I LIVE in? Is it only on my FIRST home?

Is anyone else noticing here, that I am meeting your points, Brooke, about “our Income tax based society and the shelters our elected officials have created for us”? I have homes, paid for, with 100% equity. I keep buying more, making more…and so I pay higher taxes? Hey—there are things called ‘expenses’, ‘charities’ …oh, and real estate–to use to my advantage. If I have all I need and a huge chunk more, what’s 30% to me?? …and that’s STILL only because you assume I don’t have another property in the works, which I’m earning money on, and using as a tax benefit.

I’m doing all you pointed out, Brooke. …but as you said…with NO RISK.

I can then go and use that same method and that same HELOC (or set one up on a second property), have my home free and clear and BECOME THE BANK!
You don't get it Christopher...why won't I have access to my money from my home? I pay it off, and raise the limit of my HELOC, and now I'm the Bank and move onto my second property. I have 100% access to what money I need, and once I have paid off the second, have an even greater amount to work with in much shorter time frames than what your describing.

But I’m out of debt.

The more equity I have, the more I become the Bank. The more independent I become. I then buy another home, use tax decutions and pay it off, even faster than the first. I can buy a third, fourth, fifth and so on...homes...and all this time, I can extend the limit of my HELOC and become the Bank.

Then you remark:

If they want access to it they have to apply for a mortgage and hope they can qualify.
Since WHEN? With the MMA, you have a Home Equity Line of Credit. I don't have to close that line when the house is paid off. In fact I will always keep that open, and EXPAND it, as stated above...TO BECOME THE BANK.

Do you understand that concept? Do you realize that I can have a huge line of credit, which is tied to my equity…so I have access to as much money as I need? Are you reading this now, bud?? I always have access to my money. Each time I purchase more property, I can pay it off in record time, and I have complete access to it’s equity as I go.

If you add all of this to the fact that ALL of the money tied up in the home earns ZERO rate of return they would be better off burying it in their backyard because at least then they could get to it if they needed to.

LOL. Zero rate of return? When you look at the fact that I will be able to buy more property, to expand my net worth (which has no debt, mind you—for you take your investments, and then MINUS your mortgage, then you get your net worth), invest in other projects, create rental properties, purchase options and the like, that’s not accurate at all. My money will be working for me, and accelerate my wealth. You are trying to create a set and limited situation here, when I am plainly saying that when you have money and you have no debt, you have options.

Gosh, why don’t you just come out and say you simply want people to do things your way…be “smart”, take risk in investments and get rich quick? Take all your equity out of your home, expose yourself, your family and place it in someone elses hands. If you’re lucky and things stay stable, you’ll make a furtune. If things go bad, hey, it was a good thought, and it’s ok…you can spend another 30 years building it up again.
Am I too far off?

Look, you’ve made up your mind, I’ve made up mine. I think your “way” is anything BUT ‘smart’…and you feel the same about me. Cool. I’m good with that. Give people their options, let them choose how they want to use their money. That’s not your choice, nor is it mine.

I just have have two questions for you, which I’m curious about:

Question #1: Is there ANY risk in people LOSING their money with your ‘smart’ way?
Question #3: Do your investments stay stable, or do they rise and fall with variables in society?
Question #2: If you CAN lose your money, what happens to the homeowners?

Please answer those for me Christopher.

Have a great weekend everyone…be back Monday for another round of fun, fun, fun.

Jaime Buckley

28

Jaime,

If you really want to keep coming back, you’r egoing to need to read the rules and start following them…

Keith
Moderator

29

My apologies.

I will do so.

-Jaime Buckley

30

I’m sorry Kieth, I did as you requested, and noticed I violated many of the rules of posting.

You can handle this any way you wish—if you would like me to go clean up my posting mess, i will do so and be 100% compliant.

Again, my apologies…I did not read the posting rules, and i should have.

…also my apologies to all who responded to my posts, for not following the rules, when they, themselves did.

-Jaime Buckley

31

Thanx Jaime…I have modified/deleted the more offending portions of your posts as it went along…

Please just be cognizant of the rules in future posts. Thank you for your willing compliance in keeping the Forums a positive experience for all users!

Keith

32

I think Jaime may have some good points, but they got lost for me in his arrogant attitude and desire to belittle other opinions. Jaime, please try to stick to the fact and be kind to others! Your phrasing attitude made you sound like a huckster trying to score a big commission instead of a thoughtful person worth trusting.

Having said that, I saw the MMA video on line, but still don’t understand how it works. It seems like I am paying down more of my conventional balance each month than my discretionary money could pay down. How does that happen? The 2 page analysis a sales person ran for me did not explain it. Any ideas here?

33

Hopefully I can answer your question as unbiased as possible. As I have stated above, I carry all three major mortgage acceleration products therefore I can fully compare and contrast all three.

All “mortgage acceleration” programs work off the same principle, banking out of a current debt. Why carry a positive balance in a savings account at 0-1% when you can reduce a current debt at 6-9% interest.

The only thing that allows you to create this type of banking out of a debt is a simple interest loan. A simple interest loan is a loan where interest is calculated on the daily balance. So when you apply a priciple payment in the middle of the month you will not pay interest on it for the rest of the month. Currently all simple interest mortgages are monthly adjustable rate mortgages.

The Home Ownership Accelerator and Macquarie Asset Manager both utilize this by refinancing your current mortgage into their program which is a HELOC 1st Mortgage. A HELOC is better know as a Home Equity Line of Credit.

The MMA program utilizes ones conventional or compound interest loan that is currently in place and adds a HELOC for the banking aspect. The MMA software precisely calculates your deposits, spending and savings to minimize the amount of debt carried on the HELOC and deposit any extra available principle as soon as possible to the 1st mortgage.

Each programs has its positives and negative and only an individuals scenario can determine which product will work better for them. Here are just some rough examples I have seen in the past few months.

Home Ownership Accelerator
1st mortgage is due for refinance anyway
Borrower want to relend money in the future

Macquarie Asset Manager
1st mortgage is due for refinance and one of the following:
3-4 units
Investment property

90%Loan to Value

Money Merge Account
has current fixed mortgage at good rate
wants to accelerate pay off with no risk
(because this is sofware and not a mortgage it has an mlm agent program. This agent program does not require you to buy the software. Many are attracted more to this product because of the ability for resale. If a different product fits you personally better, you can do the better product and still be an agent for United First Financial the parent company of the Money Merge account.)

34

Thank you for the informative reply. I especially appreciate the comparison of like products. As a matter of principle, I have concerns about any product sold via MLM, however, I will try to get over that if it is actually the best choice for me. Here is my situation:

I live in GA, have 3 quads on conventional loans, plus several properties on interest only loans. I would like to use my business income / expenses as the “household” financial picture. I do not have any desire to pay of my home mortgage or put a HELOC on my primary residence. Do you recommend any particular product to accelerate the mortgage pay down? I would be pleased to discuss this further off line. By the way, I filled out a form from the Rancho website last night. Is that you?

35

I apologize for a portion of my conduct, to be sure, but please don’t mistake arrogance for passion. I am not attacking or belittling others opinions hnrozin–I was simply talking about basic principles, and was challenged on them when I stated I did not agree. I was told the other ways were ‘smarter’–and I just didn’t see it that way: an opinion. I have said time and again that no one system or product will work for everyone (which INCLUDES MMA), and you need to make your own decision.

So, my apologies to you hnrozin—but it was passion, not arrogance…for I know there are more educated people on this board than I am. I was simply standing by a belief, as are you, by making that judgement of me.

I appreciate the detailed comparrison of Rancho Funding in the last post, and wanted to add something for consideration:

One of the hard things to gauge with the MMA program, is taking into account the actual dollar amounts being cancelled on the back end. It’s not as simple as telling a client that he/she will cancel interest at 6-9% (though Rancho is right)…you can’t actually show/see what’s being cancelled in dollar amounts on the back end through the software, nor through the free analysis you give a client.

A scary thing that was brought to me, from someone who used the ‘austrailian’ version of this type of program, is a 1st position variable mortgage / HELOC, can wipe out the average consumer who doesn’t have a great deal of discretionary income. Even a slight rise in interest can eat up all your discretionary income and bury you. Those with high discretionary incomes don’t seem to have the problem, but thought it was worth mentioning.

Anyway, just thought that might be useful to you. Appreciate the comparrisons of products.
Just use what’s best for you, and ask a lot of questions while you do your homework.

36

Jamie,

You are absolutely correct. This is why I carry all 3 products. Just as you stated, and I cannot stress enough, it is on a case by case depending on these top variables: cash flow, savings, current mortgage situation, future plans.

Since the Home Ownership Accelerator has very strict guidelines only about 20% of people will qualify for the program: 24 states, >660 FICO, <90%LTV, 1-2 units, owner occupied or second home. Macquarie is more flexible but has much more risk involved: 26 states, >660 FICO, 100%LTV, investment ok, 1-4 units… but your lifetime interest rate cap is 21%. MMA is available in 49 states and to 80% of homeowners because all you need to be able to do is qualify for a HELOC or use one you currently have in place. Aside from the working concept and mlm program, this is why everyone is starting to hear about this so quick.

hnrozin,
You hit on a point I forgot to. Jamie please give feedback if you can find a falter in this thought. The Home Ownership Accelerator excels for small business owners or people with access to a lot of cash flow monthly. This is because you have a single 1st mortgage based off 1-Month LIBOR with a margin between .75 and 3.25. This means your effective interest rate is between 6 and 8.5%. When you pay down a large chunk of that from savings, business cash flow, property tax savings or any other source you are not tying the money up. You can relend it at the same exact interest rate. Using the MMA, you would actually be making that large payment as a principle payment to your conventional 1st mortgage, tying the money up, and subject to the interest rate on the HELOC when you redraw the funds throughout the month, every quarter, or yearly. HELOC are almost all based off prime and carry the legal cap of 21% for life. This puts you at an effective rate currently somewhere between 8 and 13%.

Now with just the limited information that you gave, you actually only have 1 maybe 2 options. THe Home Ownership Accelerator is out becasue they are not yet availabale in GA and it is not available at all on investment properties. THe Macquarie is availabale but there are substantial riskes involved becasue of the structure.

hnrozin I fall underneath the corporate umbrella of Rancho Funding. You can find me be my signature or sending a PM if you have something for offline.

37
Jamie please give feedback if you can find a falter in this thought. The Home Ownership Accelerator excels for small business owners or people with access to a lot of cash flow monthly. This is because you have a single 1st mortgage based off 1-Month LIBOR with a margin between .75 and 3.25. This means your effective interest rate is between 6 and 8.5%. When you pay down a large chunk of that from savings, business cash flow, property tax savings or any other source you are not tying the money up. You can relend it at the same exact interest rate. Using the MMA, you would actually be making that large payment as a principle payment to your conventional 1st mortgage, tying the money up, and subject to the interest rate on the HELOC when you redraw the funds throughout the month, every quarter, or yearly. HELOC are almost all based off prime and carry the legal cap of 21% for life. This puts you at an effective rate currently somewhere between 8 and 13%.

I don’t see any fault in this at all. In fact, I think I can clarify it even more:
MMA’s are not actively used at this time on commercial properties, period (as of this posting). It’s not that it won’t work, and there are good points made above, but rather because United First Financial makes sure it does test marketing first, before bringing something to clients. They shoot at their own system and software, and make sure it’s on solid ground before talking to mom and pop America, and I have the utmost respect for that (being a client).

A mortgage is a mortgage, but I was told, last Monday in the home office, that MMA’s are not offered on commercial properties…yet. They said they will open that door in 6-12 months. They have their plates full with the homeowners, and have no need to jump into another arena.

I think Rancho Fundings info is very useful…and you know what—I’m happy I finally get to AGREE with someone here!

Everything is a case by case situation.
:wink:

38

All theory aside in this discussion as I’m not smart enough to understand any of these other posts, I was at a boot camp in April where T. J. Marrs, one of the speakers and national gurus, appears to sell a program just like what you describe. If I recall, it was $1297 which included software to optimize the savings on your mortgage loan if you replaced it with a HELOC or other line of credit.

I didn’t purchase the T. J. Marrs program but this type of system (no matter who’s system you use) seems to make a lot of sense since you are paying principal first in contrast to paying interest first as done with traditionally amortized mortgages.

39

Brooke,

Just read about you and your program on MSN. Here is the link if you have not seen it.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/HomeFinancing/ANewWayToPayOffYourHouse.aspx

40

The deduction for home-mortgage interest only saves you taxes on a fraction of the total payment. The objective of the deduction is to encourage homeownership over renting, but it never makes sense to incur a mortgage in excess of your lifestyle needs.

Mortgage interest is an itemized deduction. Itemized deductions are in lieu of the standard deduction afforded to everyone. If you have enough itemized deductions that exceed the standard, you save a fraction of those deductions in taxes. That fraction depends on your tax bracket, which varies between 15 percent and 35 percent, depending on your taxable income. If you pay $1,000 a month in interest, and your annual income is more than $325,000, the most the Internal Revenue Service gives you back is $350. Whereas if you eliminate the $1,000, you save $650.

Some itemized deductions cannot be eliminated, such as state and local income taxes and property taxes. Some folks feel good making charitable contributions and choose not to eliminate those; some folks have high medical bills and employee business expenses that are unavoidable. But if you can provide yourself with a $325,000 home that is almost paid off, you don’t have that outflow of the mortgage payment every month, which is a bigger savings than the tax savings. So the answer is revealed in this question: Whom do you want to make richer – yourself or the bank?

Makes sense to me… The MMA program looks good, I really don’t see a flaw in it. You can make an argument about anything, but I’d rather own my home instead of paying hundereds of thousands of dollars to the bank over the 30 year term of the loan, or using my home as an ATM and refinancing every couple of years and blowing 3-5% in closing costs each time. Besides, we don’t have appreciation on our side like we had back in 2002-2005, and we probably won’t for a long time.
The savings with the MMA aren’t fractional, as long as you can see the big picture.

Another thing about the MMA is that the program works even better for people in Neg-Amortizing (Option Arm) and Interest Only Loans, because those loans free up so much monthly cash flow so you can drop that into the HELOC and attack the 1st Mtg. Otherwise, those loans will never, EVER EVER be paid off!

MMA can also work well for Owners of Apartment Buildings because of the Rent Rolls, which provide incredible amounts of monthly cash flow. There may be better alternatives, but the MMA in my opinion is best for the average person…

I’m looking to offer this program to all my potential and past clients.

discuss…