Lease Options Help!

General Real Estate Investing
41

Gary,

Since a Contract for Deed means what it says, that the deed is not recorded into the Buyers name and remains in my entity until the Buyer satisfies the terms of the Contract, no liens or encumbrances can attach.

Never having to do a Judicial Forclosuer on a Contract for Deed, because I am aware of how to have the buyer move out without using the Judicial process this has not been a problem either.

So your trust offers nothing when doing a Subject To deal that I have not already thought of or encountered and some folks will not even sign a simple Land Trust because they do not understand it.

By the way since I am not familiar with the way your trust works, would you be so kind to tell me how many pages are in your trust that you present to the Buyer?

John $Cash$ Locke

42

The trust is seven pages (shorter than most sales contracts) and is only completed along with the occupancy agreement after the option and purchase contracts have already been signed and my right to the property nailed down. I have never had a complaint.

The main difference I see between the two methods is that you (or your entity) go on title and I don’t, nor is my name or entity on any loans. With the trust, title is always in the name of the Trustee and the trust is Beneficiary-directed.

Second difference is the extra measure of asset protection including probate avoidance.

Both methods obviously work well (neither one of us appears to be starving). It’s just a matter of preference.

Bruce, by “legal” I am referring to the DOSC. Of course it’s not a crime to violate the DOSC. I mean legal within the scope of that clause. With my own house, I called the lender and told him it was in trust and I would be leasing it out and moving out of state. No problem and no DOSC violation.

There is no need for quite documentation or public notification. I have seen many posts on the subject 2 forum by people concerned with the lender finding out.

43

Gary, I don’t have any problem with your opinions about your NARS trust, sub 2’s, or anything else. I am a newer investor, and not qualified to judge your views, nor have I done so.

However, many, including me, have a problem with how you are more or less advertising your services in many of your posts. It is ok to offer advice and/or opinions. But the sneaky and shameless way you are soliciting business is unprofessional to do in the forums. THAT is the problem I have with your posts, not the information and opinions you give.

44

Gary,

“The main difference I see between the two methods is that you (or your entity) go on title and I don’t, nor is my name or entity on any loans. With the trust, title is always in the name of the Trustee and the trust is Beneficiary-directed.”

This is why the Attorney Generals office in North Carolina has a problem with trusts, they consider it fraud “hiding ownership” and until you stand tall in front of the AG’s office with your trust then I see no proof it will with stand the test. Here is how you get tested, if someone files a complaint with the AG’s office they investigate and you can at this point defend it.

My entity does not go on any loan, others methods apparently have not been explained to you properly.

Now if your method has never been tested recently in North Carolina by someone filing a complaint, again I say then we can see the outcome if and when it happens.

“Second difference is the extra measure of asset protection including probate avoidance.”

Been there done that without problems.

You see Gary I am the type of person who investigates my method of investing so I do not give out false information that could get an investor in trouble.

Also I handle things “Pro Se” (means without an attorney) when problems arise. This started a while ago when I had to educate attorney’s on Subject To investing and found that the majority of them had no clue. “Pro Se” recent example also in Federal Court:

www.DoNotDoIt.com

Let me go on with just one senario that happened as I had a call from an attorney (realtor’s attorney, guess they thought I was buying and selling houses without a license and I just took a deal away from them) who told me I was going to the Creative Investing Jail, because what I was doing was illegal. When I finished explaining how it really worked he told me about his credit problems and needed a house could I find one for him and he would purchase under Contract for Deed.

So when I give advice about investing it is done from really having done deals, not out of some course book or written by someone who couldn’t spell investing before they published.

The one thing I have not done is answer every post with this is the only way you can do creative investing, there are investing methods that I chose not to do, however if someone asks me I will give them the pro’s and con’s on any method that I am aquainted with. This I do also very sparingly.

You apparently are new to posting on an open discussion boards so there are some things that you can do that will provide you with what you are after (people joining your group or whatever it is called) without roughing up some investors who have also been there and done that without NARS or some new person looking to learn.

One last thing I read the innuendos in your posts that are very well placed hoping it will be over looked for instance… “The main difference I see between the two methods is that you (or your entity) go on title and I don’t, nor is my name or entity on any loans”… there was no difference here, however by reading what you said one might assume so.

Thus far all you have is a method of investing that offers no more than other methods that are consistant with proper creative investing.

John $Cash$ Locke

45

You missed the point, Bobo. I don’t sell the NARS Trust. I use it to purchase and manage properties. I don’t care if someone wants to go direct to the landtrust.net website and get their own trust. I’m not in the business of data entry. I’m an investor. The point is that I may sound enthusiastic about this system because I am. What can I tell you?

46

Cash,

In all my transactions, the seller (John Jones) puts his property in trust in his name as he is entitled to do under Federal law. He does not transfer title to me until I have retired his mortgage and paid him every cent he is owed at the end of three years. That is to protect him, after all, I am taking his property subject 2 and signing a triple net lease.

I become a Beneficiary of that trust. I locate a Resident Beneficiary who moves in on a triple net sub-lease, 2 years, 11 months and 29 days long. Title is always vested in the name of the Trustee, a non-profit corporation. (for instance Equity Partners. LLC, Trustee) and that is what a public records search will show. This is legal under Federal law and is good asset management strategy. In fact, Disney has their properties in trust this same way.

The name of the trust may be John Jones Trust and why not, it is still his property, only now it is personal property, not realty. In fact, I share future appreciation with the seller, John Jones (he gets an additional 10% of the appreciation above his original price). The buyer gets 50% and I get 40%. Pretty generous.

There is no fraud, here. It’s a great deal for the seller, the buyer, and myself and everyone leaves happy. That’s why I bring so many smiles to people’s faces, John.

One comment you made was disturbing, however. You said, “Never having to do a Judicial Forclosuer(sic) on a Contract for Deed, because I am aware of how to have the buyer move out without using the Judicial process this has not been a problem either.” All kinds of mental pictures are created by this statement and adherence to the law isn’t one of them.
:smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

47

Gary,

Evicting…

It is called a “Cogovit Note” or if I don’t use the note, just plain sales ability in understanding a buyers problem and showing them the way out just like I purchase the property with “U-Haul” money.

Here again just using what works, keeping it simple and easy.

John $Cash$ Locke

48

John,

It is a “Cognovit” note, not a cogovit note and it is a shady means of persuading people to leave. In fact, it deprives the debtor of notice that he is being sued. I can’t believe you admitted to using this procedure. Indy Bruce will be interested in this:

IC 34-54-4
Chapter 4. Cognovit Note Prohibited as a Means of Confessing Judgment or Authorizing Payment

IC 34-54-4-1
Violations
Sec. 1. A person who knowingly:
(1) procures another to:
(A) execute as maker; or
(B) endorse or assign;
a cognovit note;
(2) being the payee, endorsee, or assignee of the cognovit note, retains possession of the cognovit note; or
(3) attempts to recover upon or enforce within Indiana a judgment obtained in any other jurisdiction based upon a cognovit note COMMITS A CLASS B MISDEMEANOR.
As added by P.L.1-1998, SEC.50.

With all due respect, John, you don’t use attorneys and are apparently in violation of the law, at least in some states. All NARS Trust documents are reviewed by our attorneys and we are never in danger of violating the law like with your cognovit note. That’s how we keep it simple and easy.

49

This is what the Texas bankruptcy court says about cognovit notes:

Confession to Judgment
the debtor’s waiver of the right to contest a collection suit, authorizing the creditor to obtain judgment by consent. A confession during the course of litigation (also called a “stipulation”) is enforceable if freely made. However, a confession made before default, particularly one contained in the instrument of debt itself (called a “cognovit note” or “warrant of attorney”) is subject to particular scrutiny and is usually unenforceable in a consumer transaction.

50

Gary,

The next time you stop by the Supreme Court tell the folks there that they are a bunch of shady people, because they ruled that a Cognovit note is not un-constitutional. D. H. OVERMYER CO. v. FRICK CO., 405 U.S. 174 (1972) 405 U.S. 174 among other cases. I am sure you have heard of Miranda where a person can give up their constitutional rights against due process.

Now certain states have ruled that you cannot use one and in those states “U-Haul” money is used.

It is called a “Cognovit Note” or if I don’t use the note, just plain sales ability in understanding a buyers problem and showing them the way out just like I purchase the property with “U-Haul” money. So your argument is a mute point as I do not use it where it is illegal to use.

So what we have here directs back to you, states have the right to call a land trust fraud under their statutes, just as some states say you cannot use a Cognovit note.

I always recommend that anyone contact an attorney to have their paperwork reviewed to make sure it conforms with the state statutes.

Maybe you would like me to post what the National Consumer Law Center in their article “Dreams Foreclosed: The Rampant Theft of Americans’ Homes Through Equity-Stripping” has to say about your simple and easy method of investing, because they do bring it up?

Chew on that one for awhile.

John $Cash$ Locke

51

I don’t strip equity, John. I share it with both the seller and the new tenant buyer.

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

52

Gary,

I was sure you did not want me to post the article, however if you persist…

John $Cash$ Locke

53

Post whatever you like, John. Your articles re a land trust usually have nothing to do with the NARS landtrust which has been used successfully for 21 years without a legal challenge. The creator, Bill Gatten, is highly respected. The seller is always protected and never transfers title until his mortgage has been paid off and ALL of his equity has been paid in full.

It is painfully obvious that you are trying very hard to besmirch this strategy and in the process exposing some of the flaws in your own system such as your use of questionable eviction procedures.

Since you mentioned articles, I just found one on Google entitled, “John $Cash$ Locke Reviewed”. I will withhold it to save embarrassment as that is not my intent.

I would much prefer to move on to another topic as your manic attempts to make the NARS Trust look bad have certainly backfired, i.e., “cognovit notes”, etc. I enjoy answering questions and concerns of the newbies and really don’t enjoy verbal gymnastics with “gurus”.

Peace, John.

54

Gary,

I usually don’t post as I prefer to just read what interests me, but the one thing I have noticed, over and over ond over, is how you ALWAYS push the NARS Trust. So I clicked on your website and who would have guessed, there is a fee to use it.

It would be one thing if you advised using the NARS trust but actually had no hand in it. It gets old quick to see you pushing your product, even if you don’t think you are. People lose respect for you when you do that. Let your product sell itself. If it really is as good as you say, people will use it. I don’t know John Cash (although I think he is from Vegas so he can’t be that bad!!) but I respect his posts more just because HE IS NOT CONSTANTLY TRYING TO SELL ME SOMETHING!

Quit pushing the trust and remove the link from your signature and people will take you more seriously. As it is, you are being viewed as a salesman, not an experienced real estate investor. All people really see when they read your posts is blah blah blah NARS LAND TRUST!! blah blah blah NARS LAND TRUST! blah blah blah

55

Gary,

Here is the link to the review you where talking about…

http://www.alwaysreview.com/johncashlocke.htm

This guy is so up to date he doesn’t even know I do not sell my product any more on web sites and how is this for self promotion, what he is saying is buy his product as this is the only one that works. Sort of what you have been doing.

You have done an excellent job all on your own of besmirching what you do, no one likes a product shoved down their throat as the “catch all to real estate investing” or saying "“Forget subject 2’s unless subterfuge is a way of life. Use a NARS land trust. Safe and profitable.” what did you expect from all the investors that use the Subject To method of investing including myself.

So what you are saying "really don’t enjoy verbal gymnastics with “gurus” after all the posts you made. Isn’t it more like an exerpt from the article says:

“The most likely result (client) could have anticipated when signing the trust agreement is exactly what the other co-beneficiaries hoped for: a default on (the client’s) obligations resulting in an implied intention to sell their beneficial interest, followed by a quick eviction from their home. Specifically gave an example where it was necessary to evict an elderly woman from her home after her husband passed away and she could not meet her obligations.”

Isn’t it more like you need to get out there looking for little old ladies to sign up for your tust.

John $Cash$ Locke

56

Scot.

Of course NARS charges to set up a trust. Nobody does anything free. On my website please show me where someone can pay me. They can’t. I don’t charge to set up the trusts. I only use that website as education and information for people whom I have already contacted so they can learn as much as possible about the trust in anticipation of doing a deal with me.

I have used the product for 3 years. It is not mine. It is Bill Gatten’s. He’s been using it for 21 years.

I don’t sell it, I promote it because I believe in it and I believe it is the best way to protect the seller, buyer and myself, not to mention the property. Unlike Cash who said he doesn’t bother with attorneys and admittedly uses questionable eviction tactics, every document from NARS has been reviewed and approved by our legal staff. No surprises.

This is my last comment on this topic in this thread.

Thanks for your input, Scot, and hope things are going great in good old Las Vegas. I have some nice memories of Vegas. Got married there 22 years ago and played pretty well in a pro golf tournament. Happy times.

57

Scot,

Spent a few years in Las Vegas and was there when the Mustache Pete’s ran things before the large corporations took over.

I have been a Moderator on two out of three of largest discussion boards on the net for many years and I have seen the “Board Hustlers” come and go on the boards with their methods, just like the huslter’s who come to Las Vegas to pull their scams there.

What you don’t see from them is how many real deals they have done and when you ask them for proof they say, “all my deals are in trusts.” They try and talk a good story, but all they do is talk the talk, however are unable to walk the walk.

When you check in most cases you will find they are either a “plant” for someone else’s course or most likely have never done a deal themselve’s and are looking to skin a new person “do a deal with me”.

They normally go away with comments like “This is my last comment on this topic in this thread.”, because they realize everyone found out that all they have been doing is Board Huslting.

Glad to see you picked up on what was going on also and say hello to “Oscar” for me.

John $Cash$ Locke