How do I evict someone?

Rehabbing, Fix and Flip, Rental Properties
21

I was simply telling him to cover his bum. When you are dealing with someone like the OP mentioned, you cover your ass. I don’t know where you live, but I’m not putting myself in danger with someone who is going to do what he pleases on MY property. If the lease HE SIGNED stated that he is not to be smoking and he is, he has breached the contract. I would call the police and tell them that I need to enter the property and feel that the tenant will be hostile and possible combative. They would then tell me to wait for them to arrive to enter. Then I would take all the pics I wanted of the ashtrays, packs of cigs, etc. IN ADDITION to having an officer accompany me inside, his/her report would state they saw the evidence of smoking in the unit. Who do you think a judge will believe? And if you smell smoke coming from a non-smoking home, calling the fire department is prudent. for those you you that don’t smoke, YES, it is possible to smell smoke coming form a unit. It covers and fills EVERYTHING with the smell.

People don’t get out of line with me because I DO handle my business. You can bet I don’t have these kinds of issues because I am quick to cover my assets. My friends always ask me why I don’t have things like this happen an it’s because people like the OP’s renter seek out someone they can run all over. He needs to pull the reins in NOW.

22
How am I to learn about situations that have not come up yet? I really do want to know. We paid good money to have a lawyer look over our lease and updated it with all the suggestions... but I'm still in this situation.

There are many ways to learn the landlording business. You can start by reading every book that you can get your hands on. If you don’t want to spend money on books, you can go to the library. You could read every archived post on this website (whatever it takes). Better yet, join your local REIA and make friends with a SUCCESSFUL INVESTOR (not another newbie) and have your new friend show you the ropes. The key is to do whatever it takes!

If the lease HE SIGNED stated that he is not to be smoking and he is, he has breached the contract. I would call the police and tell them that I need to enter the property and feel that the tenant will be hostile and possible combative. They would then tell me to wait for them to arrive to enter. Then I would take all the pics I wanted of the ashtrays, packs of cigs, etc. IN ADDITION to having an officer accompany me inside, his/her report would state they saw the evidence of smoking in the unit. Who do you think a judge will believe? And if you smell smoke coming from a non-smoking home, calling the fire department is prudent. for those you you that don't smoke, YES, it is possible to smell smoke coming form a unit. It covers and fills EVERYTHING with the smell.

Moonstruckprincess,

I like the way you think. What you posted is that way that things would work in an ideal world. Unfortunately, that only happens in fantasyland. First of all, you can not call a police officer to help you illegally enter the property. You MUST give your tenant notice before you enter the property. If you don’t, both you and the police department will find yourselves involved in a nasty lawsuit. To make matters worse, the tenant will get a FREE legal aid lawyer to represent her. YOU WILL LOSE THAT LAWSUIT EVERY TIME! If you tell the police that the tenant may be combative and you are in danger, you have committed a crime by filing a false report. Interactions between tenants and landlords are civil matters, just as Rich said. Your continued assertions that the police will get involved in civil matters just shows that you are a newbie who hasn’t done her homework.

As the others said, the police and fire department can do absolutely nothing about a tenant smoking. Moreover, unless your rental is in Martha’s Vineyard, you will eliminate the vast majority of the tenant pool if you don’t accept smokers.

The politically incorrect truth is that smoking is generally aligned with socio-economic status. Generally, middle and upper income people do not smoke. In fact, of all my friends and business associates, I don’t know of a single one who smokes. On the other hand, low income people generally do smoke. Of all my tenants, the vast majority do smoke. If I excluded smokers from my rentals, I would be the proud owner of a bunch of empty buildings - at least for a few months until I went broke.

In addition, I can’t get too excited about evicting someone for smoking because it will be virtually impossible to enforce in court. Even if you have pictures of them smoking, they’ll just claim that they quit smoking in the rental. Chances are high that the judge won’t evict them for that.

Mike

23

Ok, so if you don’t want to exclude the smoking population from your rentals, can you at least require that they only smoke outside ? This is a duplex (an 80 year old home). The smell is filling the upstairs unit as well and subjecting their infant to second hand smoke. Don’t the upstairs tenants have rights to continue living in a smoke free environment?

The no-smoking rule unfortunalty was verbal, when they were looking at the unit I advised them that it was nonsmoking and they said “oh that won’t be a problem, I (the wife) am the only one that smokes and I’m trying to quit. I will promise we will not allow any smoke inside.” This was said again at the time of signing the lease. I typed up a letter saying that we are formalizing in writing the existing verbal agreements that have been made and that they are being incorporated into the lease. They had at first refused to sign it and kept saying their lawyer told them they didnt have to sign anything. I advised them that my lawyer said they have no legal right to anyspaces unless they sign a parking agreement. They are now offering to sign both the parking and smoking. So now it will be in writing. Does that help me any?

24

I did mention before that he should give the necessary notice before entering the property. I didn’t feel that I needed to mention it again.

The way he is making that person sound, I would have a police escort because I would not trust myself alone around that person. Unfortunately, I have been through too many violent situations and know that things can escalate very quickly. I have learned to watch little things that people do, as they show all you need to know about their character (or lack thereof). Someone who is exhibiting the behavior that this tenant shows lack of respect for authority or others. That is not filing a false police report, it’s staying safe. I would never do that or tell someone else to.

As far as my being a newbie, I may be to RE, but I am not a newbie when it comes to police. That is how I know when to contact them. My aunt was a cop as was my ex-fiancee. Any cop worth their badge will tell you to call them if you feel that you may be in danger. Their motto is to PROTECT & SERVE. I would not put anything past that renter. Someone who does the things he/she has done would have me VERY ill at ease.

As far as the fire department goes, if the apartment smells like smoke and there is to be no smoking, something is wrong. I would never rent a unit that someone has smoked in before I moved in. I know many people smoke, but many more do not. I doubt you’d go broke by not renting to smokers. The stench does not come out, no matter how much you clean. Do I really need to mention how many fires are started by smokers who fall asleep in bed with a lit cigarette (my mother was one, natch)?

I am glad it will now be in writing, but OP, you MUST show them that this is YOUR property. Don’t ask them if it’s ok, TELL them that this is the way it is. And STICK TO IT. If they park in the wrong space, have the car towed. I would make it a money thing. If they smoke in the unit, charge them $25 each time you find it happening (or that the upstairs neighbors complain). PUT IT ALL IN WRITING. I never speak to anyone that I have an issue with. I alway put it in writing so when they say I am wrong or they didn’t say this or that, I have it in black and white.

25
Ok, so if you don't want to exclude the smoking population from your rentals, can you at least require that they only smoke outside ? This is a duplex (an 80 year old home). The smell is filling the upstairs unit as well and subjecting their infant to second hand smoke. Don't the upstairs tenants have rights to continue living in a smoke free environment?

SAHM Investor,

You can exclude smokers if you like or you can require that they smoke outside. I don’t do that because it would negatively impact my income. If your market will allow you to keep your units full with good tenants that don’t smoke, that’s great. However, everything needs to be in the original lease that they sign. Once the lease is signed, you can not force them to sign something else.

You have not yet made the mental transition to being a landlord. Don’t confuse your rental with your personal residence. Your personal residence should be a very nice, clean, healthy place for you and your family. It should be a great place to live. The purpose of your rental is to make money. I don’t care if cigarette smoke fills the house so much that they all turn blue. I am never going to live in my rentals. Their only purpose is to make money. Tenants smoke and tenants drink. That is a fact of life. Tenants also frequently bring pets into your apartment. When you discover the pet, they will claim that they are babysitting the dog for someone else. Tenants LIE! You can’t make tenants behave like you do.

Dealing with all this nonsense is the job! The tenants tear up the property as fast as they can and you try to fix it up just as quickly.

Moonstruckprincessa,

You are so far off base that I don’t know what to say. How do you think I knew that you were a newbie, even though you didn’t say so in your original post? If you’re going to be in this business, you are going to have to get accustomed to dealing with tenants. The police do not “PROTECT AND SERVE”. There job is to investigate crimes and put the criminals in jail. You must take responsibility for protecting yourself. Most of the landlords I know carry their own protection.

That silliness about calling the fire department or police because a tenant is smoking…well it’s ridiculous! You’ll realize that if you make it in this business for a few months.

Mike

26

Police protect and serve, detectives investigate crimes.

I am a newbie to RE, and to this board. My post count would tell anyone that, it’s not a mystery. And something I would readily admit.

I’ve read all the available material on you. You talk and look down on anyone not like yourself, yet brag about how much you go to church. Not every low income person is a drug addict, as you so often say. They are good enough to pay your bills, but otherwise you want nothing to do with them…having piercings in your face doesn’t make you a bad person. No one involved in the Enron scandals did, yet look at the horrible crimes they committed. But you’d rent to THEM because they were upstanding people in suits and no piercings.

By the grace of God, you have been lucky in life. You should feel blessed, not superior. You’re a relative newbie yourself in RE, you’ve only been in it for 3 years. Someone who has been in it 10, 25 years would call you the same as you’ve called me. I would hope that they would be kinder to you than you have been to me.

Say what you want about me, your words do not make it so, MINE do. I have always been successful in any endeavor I’ve chosen because I expect the unexpected and don’t back down from my belief in myself and what I know is right.

After all the issues you’ve had with tenants (the drug addict that had her child taken away with the weekly police presence at YOUR property in particular), it’s hypocritical for you to tell someone else not to call the police if they are unsure of their safety.

The FACTS matter, remember?

OP, I am sorry to have clogged up this thread with banter with someone else. Bottom line is to protect yourself and your assets and surround yourself with people whose interests mirror your own.

27

Moonstruckprincessa,

Once again, almost nothing you said is correct.

First of all, your post count has absolutely nothing to do with whether you’re a newbie to RE or not. Everyone makes a first post at some point. A person could make their first post as a newbie or they could be an experienced landlord. It is obvious that you don’t understand REI from the content of your posts (not your post count). By contrast, Cate recently joined this forum and it was immediately apparent from her posts that she knew what she was doing.

I have almost never mentioned church on this forum, maybe once or twice in over 1,500 posts, and I would hardly call that ‘bragging about how much I go to church.’ Ridiculous! I’m not going to get into an argument about church on this forum. To set the record straight, I am a Christian (and a member of the vast right wing conspriacy) but I’m far from perfect.

I do not have a problem with people who are not like me. Once again, you’re way off. I DO have a problem with people who are too lazy to work; who don’t pay their bills; who are drug addicts; who are criminals, etc. If you were an experienced landlord, you would know that part of this job is screening tenants. I have found that almost without exception, people dress and look like what they want to be. When a potential tenant shows up with tatoos all over their face and hands; has a criminal history; has empty beer cans all over their car; with rings through their lip, nose, and tongue; wearing baggy pants that must be held up with one hand, etc - yes I make a judgement that they’re probably a loser and I won’t rent to them. Do I respect them - NO!

Life is about choices, not luck. We live in a great country where you can be whatever you want to be. You can choose to work hard and be successful, or you can choose to be lazy, dress like a gangster, smoke crack, and be a loser.

I have only been in the REI business for a little over 3 years, but have dozens of rentals. It is true that I haven’t been in business for as long as someone who has been doing this for 20 years. However, experience isn’t limited to the clock or calendar. Who would have more experience as a landlord - someone who had owned 1 rental for 20 years or someone who has owned 100 rentals for 10 years. By your logic, the person who has been in business for 20 years with one rental has the greater experience.

Say what you want about me, your words do not make it so, MINE do. I have always been successful in any endeavor I've chosen because I expect the unexpected and don't back down from my belief in myself and what I know is right.

That’s the difference between us. I try to use the best information to make my decisions. If I find a better way, I take it. However, I’m sure that your way it better. Keep calling the police and fire department every time a tenant smokes in your rental. I’m sure that you’re right - that’s the best way to go. :rolleyes

Rich and I both told you that smoking in your rental is a civil issue, yet you still insist that calling the police and fire department is the way to go. I think that speaks for itself.

After all the issues you've had with tenants (the drug addict that had her child taken away with the weekly police presence at YOUR property in particular), it's hypocritical for you to tell someone else not to call the police if they are unsure of their safety.

Again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. In this instance, I don’t believe that I called the police a single time (not that I wouldn’t if a real crime was occurring). The tenant in the bottom apartment called the police because there were wild drug parties at all hours. In addition, the tenant in the bottom apartment was beaten up on one occasion, another druggie at the party was thrown down the stairs during a fiight, etc. The drug addict tenant was arrested many times over that month or so and those arrests allowed me to have her Section 8 cancelled and have her evicted for non-payment. I’m not saying not to call the police, but I certainly wouldn’t call the police or fire department to report that my tenant was smoking or because I wanted to inspect their apartment.

The big difference between me and you is that I only post things that I know are factually correct. I don’t post nonsense and pretend that it is true. If I don’t know the facts about a particular subject, I either ask a question or don’t post at all.

Mike

28

And what reason would you have to enter the residence of this “combative” tenant? Would you give them notice first or just expect the local PD to go Dallas SWAT on their door and throw flashbang grenades?

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SAHM Investor

This site has a lot of useful information as well.

www.mrlandlord.com

30

I vote for this option! :biggrin

Okay a few points here:

  1. You have neither the smoking or the parking issue in writing. You don’t have a leg to stand on regarding these two issues in a court of law.

  2. Even if you did have a leg to stand on, it’s a civil matter, not a criminal matter. If you make any statement to the police regarding the agression or attitude of the tenant without proof, you’re opening yourself up to a lawsuit. You can tell them that you feel unsafe, but telling them that the tenant is combative could be used against you.

  3. You have to give notice to the tenants that you’re coming in at least 24 hours in advance. (State of CA requires it to be in writing) Which makes the whole “Catch them” thing kind of moot.