In need of licensed general contractors or handy-man

Hello!!!

Just wondering if anyone could direct us to a good General Contractor or Handy Man who is licensed and willing to do work in Baltimore.

having much experience in the field, may i make some observations…

1. most people i know (who are good) don’t like working for investors. investors typically want it cheap and fast which means patch work to alot of these guys. a good craftsman doesn’t like to do “hack” work. there is a process these people follow to provide top notch work and that doesn’t necessarily mean in a hurry. assure the contractor they will have the time to do things correctly, get them to commit to a good schedule and be flexible if weather and materials availiabilty hampers progress. a good contractor will work with you on the schedule but if you want him to work with you a second time and give you good pricing, work on his schedule not yours.

2. sometimes its hard to get paid from the investor, or at least until the deal is done. assure your craftsman that they will be paid in a timely fashion (as the work is done if you trust them) and never be late because word will get around.

3. what is your exit strategy? rent or sell? either way you should plan on doing a quality rehab, especially if you’re selling. at least if you’re renting, you can pick and choose what you care to do. if you rent, you may want to interview some property management companies who can give you good advice on where to spend your money and possible refer you to a good “hack”

4. if you’re flipping houses, or just starting, understand that the craftsman you pick didn’t choose to invest in this home so don’t expect them to give you huge discounts or cut corners. if you find a good one (one you trust), pay his price for the first few jobs to establish a good working relationship. after a couple of gigs, beat him up a little but let him make a few bucks first…

good contractors are in high demand and stay busy just off referrals…be aware of that. i interviewed an investor once who had done 8 deals with 7 different contractors. i turned and walked off. a good one will be interviewing you as much as you interviewing him.

i say these thing to try and salvage the reputation that investors have with good contractors. in my area, it ain’t so great…

Thanks for that advice Kenvest.

I have worked with the same ‘good hack’ on my last several houses. One problem I came up against on the house before the one they are woking on now, is that his workers complained to me about their boss (I work myself in my rehabs so they had access to me). I reminded them over and over again it was between them and him. I should have listened more closely, on this current project I’m having to ride the contractor way harder than I ever have before. I’ve been busy with other projects so I haven’t been around to supervise as much as I would have liked and he’s cut corners because I wasn’t there. I’ve put everything aside now to watch the final project come together closely. And he’s redoing several projects.

Because we’d built a long-term relationship I am surprised he’s tried to take advantage of me. I won’t be using him again, and I will be interviewing new contractors before I close on my next house. I appreciate your post more than you know. I buy to hold for the most part.

Can you please give me a piece of advice, I am currently negotiating on a house that has serious plumbing issues. I will not take my current contractor to this project. I need to have a very decent idea of the costs associated with the repair (it will be substantial for the plumbing alone then all new ceilings). I was going to call large plumbing contractors in the area (ones I’ve worked with on my personal residence). Before I contact them, should I be prepared pay them for an estimate and their time? This is a house I don’t even know if I will buy, the damage is too substantial for me to make an educated guess.

I feel like I’m starting over a bit here. It’s kind of a bummer. I was very spoiled with picking up a house and immediately getting to work. But, I can’t and won’t work with people who lie that I can’t trust.

its definetly hard to find people who care about the product they provide and if they do, they’re typically way out of reach for the average investor finacially.

sorry to hear about your hack…

one thing about plumbing…you can’t see this stuff so even estimates can be very sketchy. it can go good because just a gallon of spilled water can lay your typical ceiling to waste or it can be bad…galvanized piping etc…

at this point, you would be extending the olive branch to your plumber by acknowledging or even offering to pay for an estimate…they would appreciate it i’m sure…

but before calling, become acquainted with the kind of plumbing your house has…it may or may not be worth a call depending on the budget.

1. cast iron drains, galvanized supplies…you’ll find this in 40 plus year old houses and you may as well just plan on replacing it all, or all that you can reach anyway. the drains aren’t so bad but the galvanized supplies just don’t repair that well…any really good plumber would say “why bother, start over”…you might find a plumbing “hack” which would be sketchy on this stuff…budget accordingly

2. PVC and copper…tends to age fairly well and is relatively patchable as compared to the iron brothers listed above…repairs usually aren’t too expensive and it would be uncommon to have to replumb the whole house…definetly hackable and not too hard on the budget…

3. PVC and Peks (plastic supplies) easy to fix and found mostly in homes only 10 years or newer…hackable

if you have the iron stuff, budget 4-5 bucks per square foot of floor space to repair…if you have PVC/copper, budget a dollar or so, same with the peks…

if you don’t recognize what you’re looking at, trot down to the depot and see if you can find the stuff in the plumbing department. someone there will help you! educating investors cost extra!

good luck!

also, if you’re working with a ceramic tile standup shower that is 20 or more years old, the chances are good that the shower liner (the waterproofing material under the tile) has started to leak. the older pans were made of various metals while the newer ones have rubber/vinyl membranes which seem to age better. a fix of the shower pan would require pulling out the tile base of the shower, replacing the liner and any rotten frame structures underneath. budget 2500 for a proper, nice looking repair of this type.

good luck!

Further to kenvests post of yesterday. I also am a contractor and much of what he says is true. You don’t work years at a trade or construction business, work to get licensed and to be good at what you do so that you can be the cheapest bid and compete with lessor skilled contractors. You become good at what you do so that you can be paid fairly, but well. If you are any good at what ever trade you do and have been in business a couple of years, especially in the construction boom that is going on in most areas, you have more business than you can do and you don’t need to bid jobs. You get referrals and You negotiate jobs with the customers that you WANT to work with. I usually didn’t even return phone calls to people that say " I am looking for estimates on getting this or that done." I don’t do that to be rude. It was kind of a pre-screening process to save time. I always got more calls for estimates than there were days in the year to get the work done, not to mentioned my crews were usually booked 2- 3 months in advance on other projects we were working anyway. I just never had time to go and talk to people when there was not a 80-90% chance that we were going to be doing business together. It was kind of like pre-screening for motivated sellers in the real esate business. You don’t go and meet with every seller only the motivated ones.

One idea that you may consider is talking with the contractor about what your budget is for fixing up the house. If a contractor is good and wants to work with you, he can often figure ways to do the quality work where it needs to be done and what areas might be able to be skimped on to try to get to your budget. ( again, I am saying a good and honest contractor, yes they do exist.) That way you may be able to get the rehab at a price that you need to get the deal done and the contractor will have a job with a profit margin he is comfortable with. Then you will have a winning team. A contractor will not want to work for you if he does not make a profit. If he feels that he can’t do what you want for your budget, you can then move on to try another contractor. It can save a lot of time, problems and arguments once the job starts. For both of you.

This is contrary to the competative bid process, but keep in mind. Most good contractors are not “bidding” but only giving you their price. You can call them “bids” if you want to. If you find one that is “bidding low to get your business” they most likely are not good contractors and you will get what you pay for. Most contractors are not going to loose money on the job. If they bid $1000.00 on a job they are not going to do $2000.00 worth of work, they are only going to do a $1000.00 worth of work, one way or another. Otherwise they will not be in business very long. Again same as real estate investors. You don’t stay in the investment business buying for$100,000 and selling for $80,000 or you may not want to be an investor for very long.

Second tip: Only because I have had so many want to be investors or landlords with 3 houses try to tell me about their “volume” of future business. Unless you already own many, many properties or do at least 2 or 3 rehabs a month. Do not make the mistake of trying to impress the contactor or try to make him lower his price by telling him about all the work he may get from you in the future, if he does a good job at a cheap price. Most successful contractors have many clients, many who probably spend more money remodeling one kitchen than you will spend on your total renovation of 3 or 4 rental rehab houses. ( I recently did some work for a customer that spent $125,000 on her kitchen, not including appliances. and I don’t live in California or New York City) You are most likely a very small percentage of their business. They will still value your business, if it is profitable, but keep it in perspective.

To be frank, that is why I spend most of my time on real estate now. I do just enough contracting to keep my crews busy in between houses and for a few long time, profitable customers from time to time. I buy and sell and and have build up a fleet of rentals, but believe me, it is easier for me to negotiate a short sale, fix-up and sell a house and make $30,000-$40,000 over a two or three month period. Than it is to deal with a customer who is getting bids to compare to yours from an engineer who just got laid off from WorldCom, bought a used pick-up and printed some business cards and is now a carpentry contractor and the customer is trying to get you to lower your price to meet that guys price and then if you get the job (even at a higher price) a remodel job that for several weeks or months, that you will have to deal with all that customers problems, lack of knowledge in business and construction, listen to them complain about things or try to tell you how they want things done, even when they don’t have a clue of what is going on and then worry about getting paid for the job at the end because they don’t have any money! Just to make a measly $5,000 or $10,000. profit Thank-you god for blessing me with real estate investments amd getting me out of that race! Just thinking about it has raised my blood pressure a few points, I am on my way out to my hot tub for a glass of wine.

i’m glad i’m not alone!

Thanks for the advice gentlemen. I like the budget idea and that is how I worked with my soon-to-be-in-the-past contractor.

I’ve always considered myself to be fair, and the subs I do use regularly, return my calls and show up to do their work. In return they are paid quickly. They are not gigantic companies and I feel they appreciate my business; I know I appreciate their work. In the past, I have found it easier to have a general contractor on the job to handle the bulk of the rehab coordination. Perhaps I should do the subcontractor route.

I appreciate your advice.

you seem concerned enough to sub yourself…good luck!

the most important thing here is scheduling the subs so that they aren’t walking on top of each other or doing things twice…

Most of the same rules apply to sub-contractors as well. The good ones will be busy and if they are a small company with only one or two or a few workers, they have a limited resorce of labor hours to sell. If they are good they will “hook-up” with a general contractor who provides them most or all of their work, so they don’t have to worry about bidding jobs or getting paid. Or, if they are established and have a good reputation they will generally have a waiting list of customers waiting for their service and be booked weeks or months in advance. And it only makes good business sense for them to only work for the customers that they can make the most profits from. If they are a medium size company, lets say a painting company for example. And they have two or three different crews and the owner splits his time checking on several different jobs, estimated etc. He may have one good crew that you get on one job and then the next job a different crew will come and make a mess of things. It comes down to the individual worker that is doing the job. Often you can have a crew of three painters and one painter does a great job on some rooms and the other two are making a mess of things in another room. Again be careful on the sub route too. The ones who are advertising in the local paper to get more business are probably new in business, even if they say they have “10 years” experience. That is not always bad, you can find good subs that are new to business. But until they have proven themselves, it is always a gamble. There are more bad ones than good ones. Remember 50% of all doctors graduated at the bottom half of their medical school class. But they are still in business as doctors, they are just not the best doctors. Good luck and to your financial success.

Ken and Bill I want you to know I’ve been thinking so much about your posts the past few days and I feel I really need to offer up my thoughts, especially where it relates to new investors and contractors. I mean zero disrespect to either of you and hope you will both offer some thoughts.

I’ve been investing in real estate for over 20 years so I do know a little bit of what I speak. And, frankly I mean a little, I’ve lucked out and been able to have long-term relationships with decent contractors so I haven’t had to look around that much. This is why I truly appreciate your advice, but I think some of it is off base and too tough for the average investor.

Shopping around for a great contractor is what everyone should do. Not all contractors are booked to the gills, some are fantastic, but just starting out. They may have worked for a large firm and have decided to branch out on their own. I’ve found a few of these gems in my years. Some contractors aren’t the best of the best, but know what they are doing and may have hit lean times – not all contractors are booked to the point of not returning phone calls. I’ve had many contractors bid jobs for me and tell me they are “giving me their best price because they know I’ll be giving them future business.” I didn’t promise them anything nor boast about the amount of properties I own; those were their words.

My point to new investors is to understand you will get what you pay for and don’t expect a contractor to make nothing on your job. They won’t want to work for you – you wouldn’t want to work for them.

My recent experience has shocked me, I had a long-term relationship with a contractor (several houses) and when I wasn’t there to supervisor the entire job, he totally tried to screw me. Therefore, he’s done working for me – this did send me for a loop. He still has no clue – I talked to him today about my punch list. But there are many wonderful people out there you can work with. Not all contractors are fat cats who can pick and choose, that doesn’t mean they are terrible. I turn my properties quickly, and if one can’t do the job, believe me another will. But you do get what you pay for – so learn what you want.

It’s a two-way street – so be prepared to pave the way. The advice from Ken and Bill is invaluable here – you are getting a contractor’s mindset. This is truly great – especially because they are both the best of the best. To get your job done faster you may have to settle for less, but be there to make sure it’s done correctly.

In reference to TamiSpartan. Thank-you for the compliment. I never intended to imply that my business was ever the best of the best. I am actually very humble. I have learned to type very fast over the years and spit out a decent size post in a few minutes. Sometimes my thoughts don’t come across as they are meant. I can type faster than I think.

The first thing I want to clarify is that contractors or sub contractors are basically the same thing. The first organzies several trades, while a sub specializes in one or two fields. But the subs still tend to have several employees or crews. I don’t think their is much differnce in how an investor would handle dealing with either one.

Next- I have learned over the years and maybe something to keep in mind, that business poeple, wether they are investors, conractors or whatever tend to make like decisions through-out their business and personal lives. I was trying to get the thought across in my past post, using the example that if a contractor was smart and good at what he does, he is probaby busy in many cases not because he is a fat cat, but because along the way he has made smart business decisions, continued education in his field, taking care of key employees or subs to keep them with him, taking care of key customers, negotiating well with supplier pricing, insurance pricing, knows how to buy everything for his business with effeciency and not waste. etc., etc etc. He knows how to price his product to meet his expenses and needs. He does not use the SWAG,(scientific wild a** guess) or price a job just to get it in time to pay his rent at the end of the month. If you find a contractor or sub who does not know how to bid a job properly or does not present himself professionally, or does not know how to negotiate well with you as a customer. He probably does not do a good job negotiating the price of his supplies or insurance. Does not interact or negotiate well with employees and has high turnover in his help. Paid too much for his tools and made otherwise poor business desicions along the way that compromise his entire business and does not allow him to deliver the product that he should. His business and personal finances may be shaky. Therefor he has set himself up in a position to many times not be able to deliver what he promises, even if he would like to. I have also found that these same people who make poor business decisions are the same ones that have made poor personal decisions, such as driving a $50,000 pick-up truck to the job site with a $600.00 payment, behind on their rent and other bills, and when push comes to shove, if it is up to them to pay their help or supplier to get your job done or pay their rent so they don’t get evicted. They are going to cut corners on your job to take care of themselves. ( maybe that is what happened to your contractor.) It is very parallel to investing. By buying at the right price and allowing themselves alternate exit strategies for each property, they are ensuring their success But buying at the wrong price, not knowing how to estimate repairs, not understanding your rental or selling market thoroughly, knowing how to interview skilled brokers, attorneys, etc etc, an investor compromises their abilility to make a profit. Even if they take all the steps, if they don’t do them right the end result will not be that great. An investor that spends his last dollar fixing a property can be in trouble if it sits on the market for 3 months( or longer) A smart investor has reserves to make those payments, may not be happy about it, but can still make them.

You can think of parallels with any business, if a restaurant is not busy on Friday night at 6:00, it is probably not the best or you would need to make a reservation. The best hotel at the beach is always booked weeks in advance. etc etc etc. There are exceptions to the rule, they could have just had a cancellation, and a last minute spot opens for you, but again, you need to wonder if you walk into the restaurant and it is empty, except for the owners cousin who is eating for free. So when you are looking for contractors, if they are not busy or do not seem to have good people skills, it puts up a big red flag, what could be wrong with that person personally or their business practices that may compromise getting your job done right and ontime, especially if you have poured your life savings into a property and can’t afford a lot of big mistakes or time delays. Again, they may be new to business or may have had a last minute cancellation and can do your job right away. And may very well do a great job. But if you ever call a contractor and he is anxious to get to your job, don’t get real excited about how your job will get done so quick, tread with caution and ask why. Check references, and don’t just call, get in your car and go look at a couple of their past jobs. I have found with my own business, that many,many people will spend more time picking out a pair of shoes than picking out someone to do a large project on their home. They will spend about 30 minutes getting a couple prices and then make the decision based on the price of the estimate or on how quickly the contractor says he can get to their job. These are probably the two worst qualifications to hire your contractor or sub contractor on. If you hire a contractor or even a subcontractor without doing at least a couple of hours of good back ground checking on each one, you are being absolutely foolish in my book. Just because a guy shows up at your home to talk with you and seems to know what a piece of wood is, does not make him a construction worker. Check with past customers, don’t just call, drive over and see a couple of their past jobs. ( Hint: A good contractor or sub contractor will be proud of their work and take you to a couple good ones to see. Or at least give you addresses. ) ask who his suppliers are and see if he has a good reputation with them, do they like his work, does he pay his bill on time, does he buy the quality products or the cheap junk. Example: I can tell how good of a job a painter does by what grade of primer and caulk he buys at his supplier, same goes with other trades if you know the quality of materials.) go to his current job and see what his employees or subs look like ( would you be afraid of them if they came to work on your house) and what they have to say. ( keep in mind that many bosses have some sort of pain in the a** factor with people who employ them. so take anything negative with a grain of salt, but if it is consistent with several subs or employees, then be careful) One of my favorite sayings is verify, verify, verify. Works in most areas of your investing business. Sorry for the long post, I don’t bother to check my spelling or punctuation much either. Good luck with your investing.

a reputable contractor who is making a DECENT living whouldn’t have left you holding the bag or screwed up the job he was working on.

thrown for a loop??? after 20 years, you should know every good contractor in town.

it’s no fun eductaing an investor on how a house is built. working for a home owner is much easier because they don’t care, they just need it done.

and while i may be discouraging some investors, some need discouraging. if you know nothing about how a house is built, have no contracotrs lined up and no experience, you don’t need to be doing rehabs. the only exception would be your newer homes that need paint and carpet.

as a contractor/investor, i get tired of being compared to the novice who’s done a crappy job rehabing a house.

investors, be realistic…

Ken you’re right – turns out he wasn’t as decent as I thought. We did get through many properties together. Drinking problems tend to get worse if not handled – I definitely blame myself for not realizing how bad he was getting, there were signs. Since he got me though many properties I didn’t need to hunt around for another contractor – all was good until this last go around, he did ‘OK’ work and we both made money. Now I do need to search for new people. I’ve started making calls and getting references from fellow investors, but I hate to waste people’s time when I don’t have a new property to start.

I didn’t say all 20 years was in the same area, now did I? I’ve relocated entirely across the country – turns out the California contractors don’t work in Georgia LOL.

I can understand contractors getting frustrated with investors. In a big way – some investors drive me nuts, as well. But a rude contractor I would never use. We’re all trying to make a living. Investors like contractors come in all types. Not all of either group are all bad or all good. And people do need to eat, so contractors sometimes stoop to working for investors

I do appreciate the advice on this thread – thanks again gentlemen.