Redstar You Had Better Sit Down For This !

Hi,

 As you know Jay and I have been trying to help you with your 8 unit park. I started looking at Florida Statutes and Codes involved with Mobile Home Parks, but I discovered that Florida considers a mobile home a manufactured unit designed to sit in a space with no tires, axels or tongue for towing. It must be permanently situated in place on leveling stands and strapped (Anchored) to the ground and skirted to protect the integrity of the foundation. 

Then I remembered your photo of the 5th wheel trailer so I was trying to reconcile the 5th wheel with mobile home park, but my discovery is shattering under Florida law as a Travel Trailer / 5th Wheel trailer is "Not A Legal rental dwelling as Florida DMV deems a travel trailer / 5th wheel trailer defined as: It is primarily designed and constructed to provide temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or travel use.

2015 Florida Statute 320.01 section 1. and section 8. defining a travel trailer and fifth wheel use.

You can rent R.V. spaces in an RV Park for as little as one night or some period of months (Looks like not to exceed 6 months) but you can not rent a Travel Trailer / 5th Wheel Trailer for more than 14 days as vacation housing as it is not a legal rental dwelling like a mobile home.

Florida Civil Code Sections 799.20 - 799.79 gives the legal right to rent R.V. spaces to visitors provided the R.V. park is licensed and in compliance with all applicable codes.

You can not legally act as landlord / property management to rent a Travel Trailer or 5th Wheel Trailer as a long term rental unit.

2015 Florida Statute 212.03 States that you shall collect a 6% tax for all spaces in a R.V. Park, Mobile Home Park, Campground, Hotel, Hostile, etc.
Have you been collecting this tax from your spaces? Need to read this code section as their is an exemption for the last half of the year for long term tenants. (Space Renters) in your case.

I think the worst thing here is a Travel Trailer / 5th Wheel Trailer is not a legal rental unit! This is why due diligence is so important in real estate investing!

Your only exit strategy is selling the Travel Trailers / 5th Wheel Trailers on your property and either providing R.V. space rentals daily, weekly, monthly or selling off all the trailers and selling or developing the land depending on location.

I would bet you find the value of your components (Trailers) and land is much less than what you actually paid! Was there a real estate agent or broker involved in this transaction? I take it you have the Legal DMV Titles for each trailer? Go home and run NADA to determine the value of each trailer based on year, make and model? Be realistic about condition as I bet most of these are needing work and probable in fair to good condition.

Are the registrations and insurance required by law current on these trailers?

What do you want to bet that your local authorities think these are privately owned by individuals who are renting the space from you?

An actual Mobile Home: www.cavco.com/homes

                  GR

Good catch :beer

Thanks.

212.03 talks about transient tax. I don’t have to collect that because the leases are longer than 6 months…

It says they are “primarily designed for temporary rental,” does that mean ONLY?

The courthouse attorney would know nothing about this, and it’s funny how private attorneys tend to have differing opinions on things. Sometimes, different judges will interpret the law differently.

Good thing I was planning on getting rid of the fifth wheels and replacing them with pre manufactured homes.

Hi,

  Yes, they do not qualify as a rental unit, only as a vacation time unit up to 14 days.

Actually the transient tax has to be collected for the first six months on a year lease and the last 6 months is exempt from the tax.
It’s pretty well written in the code and I am positive I read it correctly!

According to the code you do have to collect the first six months of each year under a twelve month lease! Every year!

You probable need to make the space rent one bill and the mobile home a lease so they are separate agreements!

I would also verify that property is licensed as a Mobile Home Park and not an RV Park or as a Hybrid Park as a Combination Mobile / RV park has to have half mobile homes and half rental spaces for RV’s.

A mobile home park never should have had RV’s in it and would not have a license to have RV’s onsite!

An RV park is not a mobile home park as it was designed to rent spaces to campers, travelers, and transient guests!

A person can live in their own RV long term but it is not a legal rental unit!

                 GR

Hi,

 Are these units you own on site Mobile Homes or are they Travel Trailers / 5th Wheel Trailers??

Remember a mobile home is much larger than a travel trailer and a lot more square footage! A mobile home is brought in behind a semi tractor and sat down and if it’s a double wide it comes in two pieces then they are leveled and brought together in place, tied down and skirted.

How big is your land parcel? Remember a mobile home has to have parking at the trailer accessing a common roadway on site. You also have to provide guest parking and probable one handicapped space.

You see a mobile home park would already have these huge mapped out spaces that are probable 30’ x 60’ or 70’ to fit the 10’ or 12’ by 50’ long mobile homes with a parking lane (Carport) along side of the mobile home. Then space between them for fire fighting space so most mobile home lots are 30’ wide at a minimum and the code says the mobile home has to be set back at least 5 feet off the common roadway.

You could only get about 12 to 14 units to an acre!

It does not look like from your photo that there is anywhere near that kind of space?

Don’t confuse a manufactured Campground Model Home from a Mobile Home as a Mobile Home is almost twice as long as a campground model!

                GR

Where are you finding the 14 days limit?

Can you cite a statute?

Thank you very much for the phone call.

I’m trying to look at all solutions. According to 320.01, I can still turn it into a “manufactured home,” park, right?

I am not sure if I currently have two manufactured homes or two “park model trailers.”

Hi,

It is HUD standards and regulations which dictate a legal dwelling. An apartment, a hotel room, a condo, a townhouse, a modular, a mobile or a manufactured home have to have minimum square footage and meet minimum health and safety code standards along with meeting the fire / life / safety code. 

Since I did a lot of research last night I will try to find where I read 14 days. It is either in Florida state codes or laws as it was not written as a regulation.

The difference between a mobile home and a manufactured home is that a mobile home usually has it’s axels and potentially tires and tongue in place to make it easily moveable, while a manufactured home is sat down on a permanent foundation with axels, tires and tongue removed.

A mobile home comes in to a site as one or more road worthy rectangular trailers put together either laterally or vertically but still having the boxy look of a trailer while a manufactured home can come together as components allowing the addition of architectural details, cantilevers, off-set walls, apposing surfaces and 90 degree facing area.

A manufactured home because it sits on a foundation probable requires a lot to sit on!

I am guessing from what you described with tongues still attached that you have two Park Model Mobile Homes. There should be a metal plate attached to the tongue or frame in the front or back that provides make, model and year. Older mobile homes might have a manufactures plate right out in the open on the front or back outside wall? (3"x5" maybe?)

I have been investigating those differences tonight.

                 GR

Hi,

This is from HUD's website:

Q: I have a park model home and have made upgrades to my home. I was told I need a HUD label. How do I get one?

A: Regardless of the upgrades made to your park model, it is not possible to obtain a HUD label on any structure that was not produced and inspected as a manufactured home in accordance with HUD’s Manufactured Home Construction and Safety Standards and Regulations during its original construction. You may contact the Recreational Park Trailer Industry Association (http://www.rvia.org/) for additional information and resources regarding park model homes.

                    GR

Hi,

What Is a Park Model? 

By Ki West
eHow Contributor

Retirees find that park models are a convenient way to live comfortably away from home.

A park model is actually just a trailer, but with a smaller, more luxurious twist. It’s “basically designed for people who are used to a certain standard of living,” says spokesman, Bill Garpow, Executive Director of the Recreational Park Trailer Industry Association in Newnan, Ga. The unit itself isn’t as long as a traditional trailer, leaning more toward the length of an average travel trailer–about 35 to 40 feet. The growing popularity of the park model has a lot to do with its flexible size, increased attractiveness and plush interior.

Home Away From Home

People who want an easy, convenient getaway home often opt for a park model. The unit can remain set up and ready for any vacation–long or short term. It has all of the conveniences of home including sleeping, dining, cooking and bathroom facilities with a bigger, more permanent feel than a travel trailer. Owners often compare the cost of owning a unit to a couple of weeks at a resort every year. When compared to the purchase of a more permanent structure like a condominium, the price of a park model is considerably less. Plus, the units aren’t taxed as permanent dwellings.

Convenient Size

The park model doesn’t require any special licensing or permits to tow. This makes it a unique choice that can be placed in any tight spot and moved as needed. It can even be used where a living space is needed, but a traditional trailer is too large.

Seasonal Living Space

The park model itself is designed to be used on a seasonal basis. Retirees often find that it meets their needs as a temporary home. Families find it a great way to escape city life and hang out in a modern home-away-from-home in a safe country or resort location. A park model unit can be placed in a resort area to be used as a rental unit. It’s an easy way to add a guest house. Many RV parks that don’t allow traditional trailers or mobile homes do allow park models. Unlike a travel trailer, the park model doesn’t have the typical 12-volt electrical system and it isn’t self-contained. It’s actually meant to be set up full-time in one place, connected to local electric and water.

Size Requirements

The park model is considered an RV vehicle and therefore must conform to the same standards. It can be a maximum area of 400 square feet when setup and it can’t be any wider than 102 inches when it’s towed. It can have up to two slide-outs, which can extend the park model by as much as three and a-half feet with the touch of a button.

Cabin Design or Winterized Options

Most dealers offer a park model that’s designed like a cabin. Most park models can be upgraded to be fully winterized; this can include a furnace, double-pane windows, an upgrade in insulation and more.

So this tells me like we talked about earlier tonight is the mobile home on site is the only legal rental unit today!

                      GR

Okay, I know they are “park model trailers,” not manufactured homes.

After dividing this parcel into three lots and selling them, and let’s just say we get the $175,000 back to keep it simple.

How were you saying I could buy an apartment complex with that?

I could see buying another trailer park.

I have yet to run this by my dad because I can’t find the “14 day,” part in the statutes.

Hi,

The $175k you recover would put 25% down on a $600k apartment complex plus closing costs. My guess is you could find a 10 to 18 unit complex for this money. 

The 14 day deal could have been federal in the HUD regulations, I am still searching.

However as you know they are not rentable as month to month units because they don’t meet HUD guidelines.

It also could be in the Inn Keepers Laws or in the Campground Regulations for Florida! (14 Day)

                GR

Why don’t they meet HUD guidelines? And why is HUD involved in my property at all?

Redstar,

FHA insures mortgages on single family and multifamily homes ,as well as, manufactured homes. It is the largest insurer of mortgages in the world.

Hi,

HUD sets the minimum standards for residential housing. If it does not meet HUD standards it is not a legal residential dwelling! Therefore it does not meet standards to be rented, as it is not suitable housing and is considered substandard. 


       GR

What’s your point?

Where in HUD’s guidelines does it say that a fifth wheel trailer does not meet these standards?

I drove around to other parks today and saw fifth wheels being rented.

Redstar,

          Do you have any financial interest or liability for what someone else is doing?

Do you understand that your liability could be both state and federal?

Do you want to risk being criminally charged for renting substandard dwellings?

What happened to honesty and morals?

If someone accidently dies in one of these trailers do you want to spend the rest of your life in prison for negligence?

                  GR

And why is HUD involved in my property at all?

the question was answered

I don’t want that…

But where are you seeing that they are substandard?

Code Enforcement inspects them and tells me they are okay. If they’re not okay, they give me a list of violations, which I then fix. I got a letter a few weeks ago about adding handrails and moving smoke detectors into the bedrooms instead of having them in the living rooms, so I fixed it.

Hi,

Code enforcement enforces Fire / Life / Safety issues. It does not determine legal or illegal housing as it's main mandate is protecting the public. 

Does any trailer have a HUD Label or was it built to HUD standards? Go look around your park or get online and look at the manufactures specifications for the year, make and model of each trailer. I guarantee you they don’t meet HUD guidelines.

Because they do not meet HUD guidelines and standards they are not suitable as rental housing, like I told you before if I had to I could live in the 5th wheel toy hauler I own, but I can not legally rent out my toy hauler long term to a tenant.

I could rent my toy hauler to a family for 5 days at $130 a day and they bring it back to me when their done if I was inclined.

But I can not legally rent a camper trailer, tow trailer, travel trailer, 5th wheel trailer, park model trailer, or class A, B or C motor home to anyone legally long term.

There is no sense making posting after posting to try to justify breaking the law, you know the truth now it’s up to you what you do with that knowledge. You can not make a travel trailer anything but what it is, and it is not a legal rental dwelling (Home).

Basically trying to rent / lease substandard housing makes you a slum lord?

                  GR