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Author Topic: More Gun Insanity  (Read 34038 times)

Offline furnishedowner

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Re: More Gun Insanity
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2009, 06:45:00 pm »
I wish we were comparable to England, then we might have a manageable problem.  I can't follow your non-sensical reasoning, PosOutlook, no surprise.

TAXES won't stop criminals from getting guns, I already said that.  Strictly enforced gun laws will lessen their access to guns.  The taxes can pay for the enforcement people needed.  Let's tax gun owners to regulate their guns.  Just like car owners are taxed (DMV) to regulate the cars they drive.  The taxes are to help get guns out of the hands of illegal owners.

GUNS ARE NOT REGULATED FOR THE LAW-ABIDING GUN OWNER!  32 states allow ANYONE to buy a gun without ID or background check!  How is that regulation?

I started this thread about the insanity of excess gun deaths!  You say, "Oh, but it's way fewer, a lot of the deaths are suicides!"  So that's okay?  That's not insanity?

Did you know that your chances of getting shot in a Mom-Pop altercation are higher than in an assault from an unknown individual?

What in the world do automobile deaths have to do with gun deaths? Automobiles are for transportation.  Airplanes are for transportation.  You can die accidentally from either.  You can also die from cancer, suffocation, drowning.  Try to stay on track, Pos.

And guns are for... oh, right.  For protecting the lives of innocents.
Looks like that didn't exactly work out.  For those 34,000 dead people last year.  How many were innocent?  How many were homicidal maniacs, gunned down in the master bedroom?  That's why it's big news every time there is a justified shooting.  It helps justify the excess senseless deaths of innocent people by gun violence.

So, c'mon, people.  What are your ideas for curbing our excess of gun violence?  Or do you see it as excessive?

Some other silly statistics:
655,000-- US service men and women killed in all foreign wars.
1,035,000-- US gun deaths in last 30 years.
$40 million--NRA political lobby contributions to last election.

We need strong enforced gun laws.  Universal gun laws for all states.  Laws made by the people, not the NRA or gun lobbyists.
Enforced laws that allow responsible gun owners to be just that.  Laws that start decreasing senseless annual gun deaths.

Furnishedowner



PositiveOutlook

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Re: More Gun Insanity
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2009, 10:17:00 pm »
Furnishedowner,

"I wish we were comparable to England, then we might have a manageable problem.  I can't follow your non-sensical reasoning, PosOutlook, no surprise."

We can all see how you can't follow...  but all it takes is a little math, Furnishedowner... of course, it means taking the time to do it, if not, you just remain maniputable...  England's gun deaths DOUBLED since taking away guns from law abiding citizens... what is not to understand?  Not to mention their knife deaths ALSO increased...  this flies in the face of your position... you can continue to choose to ignore it, but as we can see, when the CRIMINALS know people are not armed, they know they face less resistance...  The goal of your onerous list of ADDITIONAL FEDERAL REGULATIONS is to LESSEN ownership for LAW ABIDING gun owners...  You do this through "monitoring" (even though they have committed no crime), TAXES, fees, etc... 

The one number you don't have is that of all the gun deaths, how many were committed by CRIMINALS with guns that wouldn't have fallen under your "list"...  So where do YOU get off taking other rights away incrementally?...



"3.  Two guns per person would be allowed without paying a "gun tax". For a personal arsenal, there would be a gun "excess tax" after that number.  Two are enough for protection and hunting.  These two guns would be registered to the owner, and could not be sold without new registration.  Just like for a car.  The gun taxes would be used for monitoring gun owners."

You still haven't said why someone who is law abiding should be limited to how many guns he has?  He can only use one at a time, so what do you care how many a person owns?...  It is quite obvious you want to control other people, and when you can't force your way onto other people, are quite willing to have the government step in to do it for you...

Why should LAW-ABIDING gun owners have to pay more in taxes???  If they are law-abiding, why do they need to be "monitored"

"I started this thread about the insanity of excess gun deaths!  You say, "Oh, but it's way fewer, a lot of the deaths are suicides!"  So that's okay?  That's not insanity?"

Guns are the most common way men commit suicide, and poisoning is the most common for females... so if we are going to INCREASE regulations for guns, why should we not do the same for poisonous items women come into contact with?  What you don't "understand" is that suicide is WORSE than gun deaths, in that 33,000 deaths were from suicide, which INCLUDE the gun deaths... and your emphasis is what?  TAXING, FEES, "montoring" of LAW ABIDING gun owners who own over 200 MILLION guns, but how many of THOSE law abding guns were used in the gun deaths? 

In 2007, 395,320 people were treated in emergency departments for self-inflicted injuries.  So it would seem that this is FAR MORE of a problem than overall gun deaths...  It seems to me that suicide would be where the energy and resources should be spent... 

"And guns are for... oh, right.  For protecting the lives of innocents. Looks like that didn't exactly work out.  For those 34,000 dead people last year.  How many were innocent? "

Well, let's look at it "intellectually", shall we?  First, about 55% of the 34,000 (or 18,700) were suicides, meaning there were 15,300 left...  out of this, this covers ALL OTHER FORMS of death from guns...  accidential, law enforcement, homicide, etc. 

Now, the INSANITY is thinking ANY of the suggestions you listed in your first post on this thread would change anyone committing suicide with a gun, and yet these are the MAJORITY of deaths with a gun...  the rest, 15,300 works out to 25 deaths PER MONTH per state for ALL other forms of gun deaths (i.e. - accidental, homide, law enforcement, etc.)...  What this number means is the VAST MAJORITY of 25,000+ Cities, Towns, Villages incorporated in the USA experience very little in the way of gun deaths.

What I am suggesting is that there are MANY more causes of death, with MUCH HIGHER death rates than guns... Are you even aware that ACCIDENTIAL DEATHS (unintentional injuries) top 121,000+ per year??? 

"I watched the YouTube video from England.  Very slanted reportage on protests against prohibition of FOX HUNTING.  An inhumane blood sport.
They also reported gun crime is escalating in Britain, after a ban on handguns.  Your solution?  More guns! "


You may have watched the video, and you didn't learn a thing from it...  but you obviously didn't read the articles...  if you had, you would have see that over there they are now ARMING their police with guns that shoot 800 rounds/minute...  "The officers will carry Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine guns, capable of firing 800 rounds a minute, and Glock semi-automatic pistols."

"What in the world do automobile deaths have to do with gun deaths? Automobiles are for transportation.  Airplanes are for transportation.  You can die accidentally from either."

A death is a death, right?  One person is not MORE DEAD than the next, right?  So given that the death rate for automobiles are HIGHER than guns, despite there being 3.5X the amount of guns versus auto's, it seems you would want to place your much stringent regulations on auto's...  why the difference?  A death is a death...  You bring up kids and accidential gun deaths, but ignore auto's and accidental auto deaths and kids?   

My POINT is that you have been manipulated to the point where you think a gun death is worse than an auto death...  a death is a death...

Offline propertymanager

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Re: More Gun Insanity
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2009, 07:03:04 am »
Quote
And guns are for... oh, right.  For protecting the lives of innocents.

It's clear that you're absolutely clueless Furnishedowner.  I would suggest that you start your education about guns with the constitution and the writings of the founding fathers.  Guns serve a wide variety of purposes, a primary one being to protect the people FROM THE GOVERNMENT!  A well-armed society is a free society and no dictator can succeed as long as the people are armed, WHICH IS WHY GUN AND AMMO SALES HAVE EXPLODED SINCE OBAMA (the socialist) HAS TAKEN OFFICE.  There is still an dramatic shortage of ammo and reloading supplies THANKS TO OBAMA's ELECTION.

Another fundamental purpose of guns is self-defense.  Everyone has a God-given right to defend themselves.  One of the very few things that you said that is correct is that regardless of gun laws, CRIMINALS WILL HAVE GUNS.  The only question is whether law-abiding citizens will have guns with which to defend themselves.

Guns are also for hunting.  An avid hunter would need far more than your silly 2 gun limit to enjoy hunting.  For example, a shotgun is typically used for birds and rabbits.  A small caliber rifle (like a .22) is used for hunting varmits like ground hogs.  A high powered rifle is used for larger game like Elk, Bear, etc.  So, just for hunting, a person might need at least 3 guns and that doesn't include any handguns for self-defense and protection from a tyrannical government.

Now, for self-defense, a person might need several more handguns.  My everyday carry gun is a .40 caliber Glock, which carries 16 rounds of Hydra-shock ammo (good for stopping criminals).  This is a large handgun which prints (is somewhat visible) under loose fitting clothing.  For more discrete events, I have a smaller handgun which can be more easily concealed (but doesn't have the stopping power of my larger gun).  I keep my carry gun in a gun safe in my car.  How about defense in the house?  More guns needed (and more gun safes).  So, you can see that your 2-gun limit is just plain RIDICULOUS.  Just for hunting and self-defense, a person could easily need at least 6 guns!

Let's look at your non-sensical argument about guns and suicide.  If people are committing suicide with illegal guns, then gun laws won't stop that.  If the suicides are being committed with legal guns, then I'm not sure how limiting a person to 2 guns affects the number of suicides.  How many guns does it take to commit suicide?

While we're on the subject of suicide, Japan has a huge suicide problem and yet they have almost no guns.  I guess an anti gun policy really doesn't stop people from committing suicide after all.

Furnishedowner, I'd like to hear your explanation as to how gun crimes could be going UP in England after the gun ban was instituted?

So, where are we?  We know that about half the gun deaths in the US are suicides.  We also know that a 2 gun limit won't change that rate (for the reasons I already explained).  The remaining deaths are predominately scumbag on scumbag crime (as you correctly pointed out).  You've already stated that passing more laws won't stop criminals from getting guns.  So, how does passing more laws for law abiding citizens affect criminals killing each other?

Here's the real problem - the laws we have now are not being enforced (and I'm not talking about gun laws).  I'm talking about the fact that criminals are treated as victims and are not kept in prison (or better yet, executed).  You show me the typical violent criminal and I'll show you someone who has a criminal record a mile long.  If you REALLY wanted to stop gun crime, we would put the criminals in prison and throw away the key.  That's not exactly in the socialist playbook, is it Furnishedowner?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 07:12:10 am by propertymanager »
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PositiveOutlook

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Re: More Gun Insanity
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2009, 07:17:01 am »
Propertymanager,

Brilliantly written!...

Offline propertymanager

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Re: More Gun Insanity
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2009, 07:26:36 am »
....one more thing.  Since, as you said Furnishedowner, most of the non-suicide gun violence is scumbag on scumbag crime, then maybe a good way to solve the problem is to provide FREE, high quality, large-caliber handguns to every criminal.  With this plan, they could shoot each other with much greater efficiency and the number of scumbags on the streets would be greatly reduced!  THAT'S A PLAN THAT WOULD WORK!
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Offline John_in_NC

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Re: More Gun Insanity
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2009, 08:50:12 am »
....one more thing.  Since, as you said Furnishedowner, most of the non-suicide gun violence is scumbag on scumbag crime, then maybe a good way to solve the problem is to provide FREE, high quality, large-caliber handguns to every criminal.  With this plan, they could shoot each other with much greater efficiency and the number of scumbags on the streets would be greatly reduced!  THAT'S A PLAN THAT WOULD WORK!


Great plan, but I would like to issue permits to the lawful citizens instead. And thin them out like we do our deer.

Offline justin0419

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Re: More Gun Insanity
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2009, 11:29:47 am »
The real problem (as others have alluded to) is that we as a country - with respect to crimal justice - have turned into a bunch of ********.  What - you've only been convicted of molesting 2 kids?  Oh, we don't have rooms in prisons for not so bad people like you.  Why don't you just go home and not do that again.  Next thing you know, Chester the child molester kidnaps/rapes/kills an innocent 7 yr old girl as she walks home from school.  What about DUI's?  Oh that's not that bad either.  You've only had 5 of those so you should still be eligible to have a driver's license.  You've obviously learned from your mistake...
If criminals know there's virtually no punishment for their crimes - and that's IF they get caught - what do you think that tells them?  It's not gonna hurt that bad if and when they get caught.  In this country, we're more concerned about if someone convicted of a heinous crime and sentenced to death is put to death HUMANELY.  So we better make sure the person who BRUTALLY murdered 40 PEOPLE doesn't go thru any pain.
I remember being on a bus ride in Singapore in 2002 and hearing of someone being publicly caned for breaking into someone's house.  What do you think that public example does for criminals?  They KNOW there are repercussions for their actions.
As far as suicides go, someone intent on ending their life will always find another way.  The gun really doesn't have much to do with it.
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Offline furnishedowner

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Re: More Gun Insanity
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2009, 02:10:08 pm »
I'll stick to my guns. :smile

34,000 annual deaths from firearms is insanity.  We have got to figure out how other countries are limiting their gun violence.  When do you think it is enough?  When your wife is shot at the Post Office while buying stamps, when your kid runs out of high school screaming because there is a shooter, when you are caught in cross-fire at the 7-11 buying gas?  And, oh, dang, your handgun is in your other pants!

We have got to start thinking of solutions.  Heck no, I don't know why gun crime in England would go up with the banning of handguns.  I'm sure British criminologists are focused on that problem, which probably has multiple societal causes.  We DO know, don't we, that MORE guns does not mean less crime. 

PosOutlook,  You can't break human behavior into nice mathematical formulas, like .00007 fewer guns should equal .00007 less crimes.  I can't even debate such nonsense with you. Just don't go there--geez.

I don't know why we have so much crime.  I see a coarsening of societal values as a whole.  I see incredibly shocking brutality in movies and TV, even though I go out of my way to avoid it.  This has got to be affecting young people. The media seems to sell without any moral compass.

If you re-read my posts, you'll see that I didn't propose limiting gun ownership.  I proposed TAXING excess ownership.  To fund a campaign against gun violence.  I have no doubt that a multiple of weapons are needed by some individuals.  Just like a multiple of vehicles are owned by some individuals.  These taxes are used for background checks on all gun buyers, tracing of illegal guns, monitoring sales, etc.

Suicides BY GUN should go down if guns become more regulated.  When I was in college a friend's husband BORROWED a handgun and killed himself.  We found out later it was because he was having cluster headaches, a mostly male illness that is incredibly painful.  Had he not had such easy access to a gun he might have found another solution.  Like telling someone.

Someone mentioned the high suicide rate in Japan, although guns are almost nonexistent in private ownership.  There are sociological reasons for that:  suicide is viewed (unlike under Christianity) as an honorable way out, insurance pays out under suicide, it is romanticized in movies and books, if you have cancer or severe pain you are not going to get narcotic pain-relievers, their mental health system is abysymal, it is not acceptable to suffer from depression, etc.  I am afraid I know way too much about Japanese suicides.  Our 20-year old exchange student ended her life (train) upon her return to Japan.  It still hurts.

We can agree on a few things, I think...
There will always be suicides, but fewer gun suicides if gun access is  controlled.  This is also why we don't want crazy people to get guns.

propertymanager and justin0419 want immediate execution of law breakers--just shoot 'em!  100 years ago, they would have been vigilantes.  Saddle up, boys!

I'd still like to know--how many gun deaths a year would be acceptable for you all?  And how can we get there?

There was an error in an earlier post; gun injuries are actually about 70,000 a year with an average cost of about $300,000 per person.

Gun Deaths=$100 Billion a year in social costs.  Now THIS is a number we should all be screaming about.

Furnishedowner





PositiveOutlook

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Re: More Gun Insanity
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2009, 05:04:42 pm »
Furnishedowner,

Perhaps your thread title - "More gun insanity", is really more a description of your position on guns...   :biggrin

What you don't seem to be coming to terms with is that someone who commits murder or is suicidal WILL find a way, gun or not... Maybe it's easy for you to handle it mentally this way, but to make the point...  In the below article , this inidivdual in Japan planned it out ahead of time to use a vehicle as his weapon, and then when it became useless, THEN he would use a knife.  He followed through...  FIRST, ramming people with a RENTED truck, and then jumping out with his dagger...  he left 17 people bleeding in the streets (7 DEAD)...  are you starting to UNDERSTAND yet?

http://breakingnews.ie/world/?jp=mhgbojmheyid

And you'll NEVER guess what their governments response was - KNIFE CONTROL...  "The government vowed to impose greater controls on access and possession of large knives like the one Kato used, while taking steps to provide better security for crowded public places."

Get that... KINFE CONTROL... even though the killers PRIMARY weapon was a rental truck...  So, the government pretends to be coming up with a non-existent solution without addressing the underlying problem...  much easier to assign guilt to an inanimate object than to come up with actual solutions to underlying problems...   

Now note that this individual used a TRUCK FIRST, and THEN the knife...

As far as your school example goes, this individual in Japan killed 8 children in an elementary school with a KNIFE, an arguably much more horrific way to go... from the SAME article...

"A spate of knife attacks also have occurred in schools, the worst on June 8, 2001, when a man with a history of mental illness burst into elementary school near Osaka, killing eight children. He was executed in 2004."

Interesting thing to note, is that this individual had a HISTORY of mental illness, and the Japanese EXECUTED him anyway...  Here in the USA, it would be a different story...



So, as you can see Furnishedowner, what many have been trying to get you to understand, it is NOT the inanimate object that is dangerous, but the underlying willingness of the user...  whether it is suicide, homocide, accident... whatever...  What should hammer this home to you, is that the above murderers individually killed MULTIPLE people with a KNIFE, not a gun...  the people are DEAD regardless of the object used to kill them... a death is a death...

After all, I think we CAN AGREE that people who commit murders have MUCH MORE ACCESS to vehicles, and a killer will find a way to kill... even if it is with BARE HANDS... and we certaintly cannot regulate everyone's hands, now can we....

From what you write, you have been manipulated into thinking that less GUN DEATHS is a good thing, not less deaths overall...  just as long as it is not a "gun death"...

Until you start thinking for YOURSELF, you will ALWAYS be able to be manipulated...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 05:44:52 pm by PositiveOutlook »

Offline propertymanager

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Re: More Gun Insanity
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2009, 05:34:35 pm »
Quote
We have got to figure out how other countries are limiting their gun violence.  When do you think it is enough?  When your wife is shot at the Post Office while buying stamps, when your kid runs out of high school screaming because there is a shooter, when you are caught in cross-fire at the 7-11 buying gas?  And, oh, dang, your handgun is in your other pants!

My wife, sister, and daughter are all getting their concealed carry permits in December (their class is already scheduled).  So, they won't be shot at the post office or in a cross-fire at the 7-11.  They'll be the one shooting the bad guy that is threatening their life!  In Ohio, more than 1 in every 50 adults you see has a concealed carry permit.

What you really need to try to figure out Furnishedowner is why Washington D.C. (which has had a total gun ban for decades) is the murder capital of the US when Ohio, where the majority of homeowners have a gun and one in 50 adults is CARRYING a gun, has a very low murder rate?  

Quote
Heck no, I don't know why gun crime in England would go up with the banning of handguns.  I'm sure British criminologists are focused on that problem, which probably has multiple societal causes.


Well then, since you don't know the answer, I'll give it to you.  When handguns are banned, only criminals have guns.  That means EVERY LAW ABIDING CITIZEN is an unarmed target for criminals (who are still armed).  Therefore, when England banned guns from law abiding citizens, violent crime EXPLODED!  Doesn't take a brain surgeon or a criminologist to figure that out!

Quote
We DO know, don't we, that MORE guns does not mean less crime.

WRONG AGAIN!  What we do know is that MORE guns in the hands of law abiding citizens significantly reduces violent crime!

Quote
I don't know why we have so much crime.

Fortunately, I do!  We have so much crime because you socialists think that every evil scumbag is a victim and you aren't willing to properly punish them!!!  Crime is also GREATLY increased because of the out of control drug problem we have here in the US (again the fault of the lefties).  Finally, we have a HUGE crime problem in the African American community because you lefties have DESTROYED black families with all the handouts, welfare, and entitlement mentality.  YOU ARE AT FAULT FURNISHEDOWNER!  YOU!

Quote
propertymanager and justin0419 want immediate execution of law breakers--just shoot 'em!  100 years ago, they would have been vigilantes.

Neither I, nor Justin, advocated the immediate execution of law breakers.  I am 100% in favor of giving everyone a proper trial and then making the punishment fit the crime.  The problem we have now is that people that commit serious violent crimes are NOT punished properly, as is evidenced by the convicted felon that has been stalking me since I was the witness to an attempted murder.  The guy has over 250 convictions include several violent felonies (including assaulting a police officer).  This scumbag should be in prison for good and yet he's out on the streets, thanks to our abysmal criminal justice system and all the bleeding heart liberals.  I have a restraining order against this scum (not worth the paper it's written on)  and when he violated it, he spent only 60 days in jail before getting off on a technicality at trial.  When I got the restraining order, the judge (who also carries a concealed handgun) suggested that I shoot the criminal if I feel threatened with death or serious bodily injury by the criminal (that's the law in Ohio).  I take the right to defend myself VERY SERIOUSLY!   THE POLICE CAN NOT DEFEND YOU - that's not their job.  The police investigate crime and arrest the criminals.  YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN DEFENSE!  Or, you can make the conscious choice to be a victim.

Quote
I'd still like to know--how many gun deaths a year would be acceptable for you all?  And how can we get there?

I quite honestly don't care how many gun deaths there are a year provided the ones killed are the scumbag criminals.  In fact, the more the criminals kill each other, the better!  Fewer criminals means a better planet.

Quote
After all, I think we CAN AGREE that people who commit murders have MUCH MORE ACCESS to vehicles, and
 a killer will find a way to kill... even if it is with BARE HANDS... and we certaintly cannot regulate everyone's hands, now can we....


The scumbag in Cleveland that has been in the news this week apparently killed at least 11 women by strangling them.  I think Furnishedowner should propose a ban on hands.  No more hands would mean no more stranglings and no more gun violence!  It's hard to hold a gun without hands.  Problem solved!  Or maybe she would just like to tax anyone with excess hands.  One hand - ok, 2 hands - excess hand tax!  The extra tax money could be used to study the strangling problem in this country.  LOL!
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PositiveOutlook

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Re: More Gun Insanity
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2009, 05:38:59 pm »
Interesting...

I found another article on the above Auto/Knife killer, that had more info and there was an interesting quote...

"The dead were six men ages 19 to 74 and a 21-year-old woman. A policeman ended the frenzy by knocking the knife from the attacker's hands with a nightstick. But the assailant did not SURRENDER until the officer drew his gun."

Apparently, these Japanes killers are quite effective killers with knives...  They are killing and injuring about as many people as people who are using guns in the USA when they attack...  Just more proof that it is the intent and willingness of the person, and not the inanimate object...  it is interesting that the only thing this killer responded to was - A GUN!  Sobered him right up...

http://www.jems.com/news_and_articles/news/7_Killed_in_Japan_Rampage.html

Offline fdjake

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Re: More Gun Insanity
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2009, 07:47:34 pm »
I grew up in a home that always had guns in it......My father was a Marine and a Police Officer....My brother and I were taught from a very young age (7 or 8) that guns WERE NOT TOYS.......They were to be treated with respect and NEVER played with....We were also taught very serious RULES concerning the handling of firearms...Loaded or unloaded, every firearm was treated the same way......AS IF IT WAS FULLY LOADED and you NEVER pointed a gun at anything you didn't plan to shoot.

The idea of "PLAYING" with a firearm to my brother and I would be the same as "playing" with a MEAT SLICER or a BLOW TORCH...These things are not toys and they can seriously HURT you.

I saw first hand the VALUE of a fire arm when I was 7 years old....

My mother was a nurse and worked in a very rough section of the City.
Her car was being worked on so my father took my brother and I out at 11pm one night to pick her up....This was probably around 1972 or so...
As we got ready to leave the house, my father grabbed his Colt 1911 and when he got into the car he placed it between the two front seats....

As we waited for my mother, a lone Nurse exited the Hospital and was walking to the parking lot.....Coming at her on the same sidewalk was a very scary looking dude....  As they passed this loser made a comment just a few feet from the open window of my fathers car......The nurse just kept walking...Idiot decides to GRAB her and demands to know why she didn't "answer" him......At this point my father yells out the window....
"That's Enough"...........He let's her arm go and starts moving very quickly to the open passengers side window of our car....(my brother and I are in the back seats)   I watched as my father dropped his hand off the steering wheel and smoothly raised the .45 at exactly the moment IDIOTS head popped into the window......

Let's just say that my father didn't get the chance to say anything else.
IDIOT found himself staring into the barrel of a loaded .45, which at point blank range, must have looked like a CANNON!!!!!

All I remember seeing was the bottoms of his sneakers as he RAN down the sidewalk!!!!!

I'll keep my guns.....

When THEY can SUCCESSFULLY keep COCAINE off the streets FOR GOOD.....Then they can tell me how they're gonna get GUNS out of criminals hands........Because in my mind the ONLY people who will lose their guns under more stringent gun control laws.....are LAW ABIDDING CITIZENS........CRIMINALS will ALWAYS have access to them.....As they do to COCCAINE, CRACK. HEROINE, METH, and countless other "illegal" things.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 08:01:22 pm by fdjake »

Offline John_in_NC

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Re: More Gun Insanity
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2009, 08:26:39 am »

When THEY can SUCCESSFULLY keep COCAINE off the streets FOR GOOD.....Then they can tell me how they're gonna get GUNS out of criminals hands........Because in my mind the ONLY people who will lose their guns under more stringent gun control laws.....are LAW ABIDDING CITIZENS........CRIMINALS will ALWAYS have access to them.....As they do to COCCAINE, CRACK. HEROINE, METH, and countless other "illegal" things.

That was a good story FDJake, thanks for sharing.


Your right about criminals always having access to drugs as well. That is why I am a supporter of repealing all federal laws concerning illegal drugs. Legally speaking, this is a law reserved for the states, morally speaking, this is a family/religion issue, not a legal issue at all.

If a state choose to have no laws restricting drug use, this is what we would see:

The same people using drugs now....... would continue to use them, and guess what, I still wouldn't do heroin if it was legal, would you? What would happen, the rug would be yanked out from under the violent drug dealers, violence in Mexico, gang violence, all nearly gone. Take away the money, you take away the power.

I will admit there might be a few more people inclined to try stuff it was legal, but there is no such thing as a Utopian society, and the federal government needs to acknowledge they simply can't control peoples lifestyles effectively. The untended consequences of federal drug laws have caused a lot of human grief.

Offline Bluemoon06

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Re: More Gun Insanity
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2009, 08:28:08 am »
We have a lot of energy around this subject.  You guys know I am not for limits on weapons.  That is because I have a predatory nature about myself.  But my sonís best friend is a Scottish national.   His parents are expatriates working in the USA for the largest oil company in the world.  But they talk about in Great Britain (and most of Europe) guns are not readily available.  You never hear about some person shooting up dozens of people at a school or McDonalds because they canít.  If they go crazy they have to try to stab everybody or hit them with a hammer or something like that.

But for us to get to that point we have to get rid of all the guns.  That is as hard as getting rid of all the mice.  That is not going to happen.

This gun stuff is insane, but we are insane not because we have guns we are insane because in a country of 200 million people there are going to be a bunch of insane people in the mix.  I just would prefer to be able to protect myself from them.
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Offline furnishedowner

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Re: More Gun Insanity
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2009, 09:05:08 am »
Interesting posts, fewer rants this time.

Would you agree with me that we need tighter control of WHO gets a gun?  That we need federal laws so some states can't just allow sales to any criminal or crazy person?  That we could at least start with tightening up ownership?

Would you agree that we need a ban on cop-killer bullets and machine guns in the hands of common people?

Would you agree that we need to stop the wholesale transfer of weapons to Mexico (that's where a lot of your stolen guns are going)?

Would you agree that the Border Patrol and Firearm agencies and maybe FBI need more funding specifically to lessen ILLEGAL use of guns?

Would you agree that we are all at risk, and that 34,000 deaths is way out of line for a civilized first-world society?

Furnishedowner

 




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