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Author Topic: 50% rental rule question  (Read 14363 times)

Offline phatman5

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50% rental rule question
« on: May 12, 2007, 11:04:59 am »
Can anyone break down the 50% rental rule question for me in terms of the 50% the encompasses maintenance, vacancy, etc.

I am wondering how much each item takes up roughly. i know this will vary from place to place but I am just looking for a rough idea.

Offline propertymanager

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Re: 50% rental rule question
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2007, 05:41:57 pm »
phatman,

I'd be happy to answer that question for you if you could answer a few questions for me first.

I have a house at 123 Main Street.  It rents for $600 per month.  How many evictions will I have in this property this year (if any)?  Will I have any vacancies?  Will the tenant slip and fall and sue me?  Will the city fine me for a nuisance caused by the tenant?  When the tenant moves out, will he pay his water bill?  Will the house be vacant during the winter requiring me to pay the utilities for a period of time, and if so how long?  Will there be a water line leak?  Will there be a gas line leak?  Will the price of gas get to $5 per gallon, costing me more everytime I go to my property?

Thanks in advance.

Mike
www.1MinuteToRentalPropertyRichs.com 
This No-Hype, No-Nonsense Book is a step by step course in making money and building wealth with rental properties!  Everything from buying properties at a discount to dealing with terrible tenants.  Now In Paperback!

Offline phatman5

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Re: 50% rental rule question
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2007, 06:02:55 pm »
yes yes yes, and $6 a gallon. :biggrin

i did not know if there were rough numbers, that are used. if 50% can be generalized, I figured the breakdowns can be generalized. I know there are many unknowns for every prop ine very location.

just figured I would ask

Offline propertymanager

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Re: 50% rental rule question
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2007, 06:48:42 pm »
phatman,

I was just trying to make a point with my previous post.  In my opinion, it's really pointless to try to quantify every expense, because so many of them are unknowable.

You can figure about 10% for management and 10% for maintenance (for lower priced rentals).  Insurance runs about another 8-10% for lower priced rentals.  You can look up the actual taxes on the property so that is easy.  The balance is made up of all the other expenses. 

Mike
www.1MinuteToRentalPropertyRichs.com 
This No-Hype, No-Nonsense Book is a step by step course in making money and building wealth with rental properties!  Everything from buying properties at a discount to dealing with terrible tenants.  Now In Paperback!

Offline marcus335

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Re: 50% rental rule question
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2007, 01:10:46 am »
So for an example of a house rents for $600/mo.  Figure the expenses will be 50% of that.  Insurance is $75/mo.  Property tax is $60/mo.  So $165/mo covers everything else?  That seems like you aren't leaving much for repairs, vaccancy, etc. 

Offline propertymanager

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Re: 50% rental rule question
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2007, 06:00:48 am »
Marcus,

$75 for insurance sounds very high for a house that rents for $600.  I average about $42 per month for full coverage including $500,000 in landlord liability.   So, for a $600/month rental, management would be about $60 per month; insurance might be $45; maintenance might be $60; and property taxes might be $60.  That leaves $75 for all the other expenses. 

These are the expenses that you can predict.  The other expenses are relatively unpredictable, but the $75 should cover it when averaged over a lot of units and/or a long period of time.   

That gives you an idea of why people who claim the operating expenses are only 20% to 30% of gross rents are so far off.  In the example above you can see that the operating expenses were already at 37.5% for only management, insurance, maintenance, and taxes!  That doesn't include advertising, vacancies, evictions, damage done by tenants, lawsuits, legal fees, entity maintenance, etc, etc, etc.

Again, I am not a proponent of trying to predict the itemized expenses because they are impossible to predict for any given rental in any given year.

Mike 
www.1MinuteToRentalPropertyRichs.com 
This No-Hype, No-Nonsense Book is a step by step course in making money and building wealth with rental properties!  Everything from buying properties at a discount to dealing with terrible tenants.  Now In Paperback!

Offline marcus335

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Re: 50% rental rule question
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2007, 11:57:27 pm »
Insurance probably varies some based on where you are.  That and you probably get a nice discount for having so many policies.  That gives bigger landlords an advantage.  Thanks for the explanation.  It gives a very real approach.  A lot of gurus are overly optimistic. 

Offline Cakeaholic

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Re: 50% rental rule question
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2007, 12:13:11 pm »
Where did you get your 45-50% national average from?  It's always nice for me to be able to cite a source.

Thanks,

Cake

Offline Iron Range

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Re: 50% rental rule question
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2007, 11:24:12 pm »
Cakeaholic,

If you want to see examples of the 45-50% average, then go to loopnet.com.  Take a look at the gross income and then look at the net income.  You will notice that if the gross income is $10,000 then the net income is around $5,000. 

Gross income is all income received and net income is all the expenses except the mortgage.  So if you are looking at a property that has a gross income of 10,000 then you can estimate that the net income is around $5,000.  Then take the $5,000 and subtract the mortgage, which will leave you will an ESTIMATED profit.  Always find out the real numbers, this is only an estimate. 

There isn't a place to cite a source. But if you want examples then cash flow a property, or go to loopnet.com and look at some of the properties that show the gross income and the net income. 
« Last Edit: May 14, 2007, 11:26:38 pm by Iron Range »
Great Tenants are an Investors Greatest Asset

Offline propertymanager

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Re: 50% rental rule question
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2007, 06:46:45 am »
Cakeaholic,

You can find the 45% to 50% expense statistics from any of the other national landlord associations.  Depending on the source, the capital expense number may not be included in the operating expenses (technically it is not).  Therefore, you will have to add in the capital expenses if you want the true picture.

Mike
www.1MinuteToRentalPropertyRichs.com 
This No-Hype, No-Nonsense Book is a step by step course in making money and building wealth with rental properties!  Everything from buying properties at a discount to dealing with terrible tenants.  Now In Paperback!

Offline Vader

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Re: 50% rental rule question
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2007, 02:56:17 pm »
Really hard to quantify what each expense will run you. Mike and many others have explained this thoroughly throughout this board so if you search you'll find great info.

Its easy to doubt the 50% rule because on paper it seems way too much, but I've learned from personal experience(aka the hard way) that it is DEAD ON!!

Example
Triplex
AC in unit B stops working. No problem, home warranty covers repairs, $50. AC tech tells you "hey all 3 of your units need maintenance badly or they're all gonna go" and shows you proof. Add maintenance agreement to prevent further wear $750.

Replacing AC for ONE unit cuz you didn't have a home warranty, possibly $2000

Tenant complains of leaks, find upstairs bathroom flooded, call plumber, $400.

Pest control - could run you $100 per quarter, unless your tenants are fond of rats and roaches(not likely).

Painting, steam cleaning carpet, general cleaning of vacant unit, junk removal for one unit....
???? Don't think its easy to do this yourself to save money. Vacant units tend to come at the WORST possible times, sometimes when your day job and personal life are going crazy.

Court costs in time and money to evict, lost income from non-paying tenant....

Management costs 8-10% of rental income if you decide not to do it yourself. They will RAPE you if you allow them to do maintenance. Try $100 for drilling a door back in place, try being charged TWICE for the same issue just because tenant calls again, and ridiculous charges like that. Think evil desparate car mechanic.

The list goes on, so many things can add to your expenses. If your rental income only covers the PITI by a couple hundred, you're going to be in trbl.

Re: 50% rental rule question
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2007, 11:08:15 pm »
I was wondering what the 50% rental rule question is. I have done 147 houses mostly partnered and wholesaled but now moving into getting some rentals as well!

In the process of renting one now.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 11:11:40 pm by Bill Guerra aka Bill in Vegas »
All the very best,
Bill Guerra

Offline propertymanager

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Re: 50% rental rule question
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2007, 06:50:09 am »
Bill,

There is no "rule".  However, throughout the United States, operating expenses run 45% to 50% of gross rents.  That's the "rule".  Most newbies don't understand this (or don't believe this) and therefore fail in a short period of time.

Mike
www.1MinuteToRentalPropertyRichs.com 
This No-Hype, No-Nonsense Book is a step by step course in making money and building wealth with rental properties!  Everything from buying properties at a discount to dealing with terrible tenants.  Now In Paperback!

Offline gilbequick

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Re: 50% rental rule question
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2007, 07:29:49 am »
Eventually I do want to get into rentals, and I don't want to fail. 

I've seen a lot properties that could rent for $100-$200 more than the PITI, but none that would double the PITI and make the 50% rule. 

How in the world are you consistently finding properties that will meet the 50% rule?!?  I could see finding a big time fixer at a deep discount, but then you'd have to dump a bunch of cash in it and that would seem to negate things.

Bryan

Offline benjiej

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Re: 50% rental rule question
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2007, 08:03:11 am »
You don't stop looking or driving neighborhoods. You attend the local REIA meetings you get out there and meet people so if they see a deal they think hmm Benjie might be interested in this. You cannot get discouraged with your market there are always houses that fall within this rule of thumb. I live in Colorado and the housing prices have barely fallen. Remember your looking for distressed yards and houses. These to me are the best deals.

Just my 2 cents.
Benjie
Johnson Investment Properties LLC

 




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