Seasoned Credit Lines!

[wealthrx]

WOW!! I am glad that I decided to start this topic on seasoned trade lines.
All of the comments by Stikkee (sp) have been right on target in terms of
supplying valuable information. It seems like No One has been able to dispute
the facts that she has presented in the thread. I am so impressed that I am
considering getting 5 lines for my girl as an early x-mas gift(among other things).

If anyone can refute the statements that have been made in thread please post....

[DeeinAustin]

I still think it's just a big ad for their company. If you guys want to advertise, please pay for it by using the classifieds or network ads offered. You are consistently not following forum rules by posting your website and phone.

The purpose of this forum is to share information and experience. Obiously, since they are selling these, they cannot be unbiased. Their profiles have no information about them except a basic email address.

TIPS FOR BEGINNERS

1. If someone is boasting about their company's product and they have a small number of posts, DO NOT trust them. BEWARE when someone joins REIclub and most of their posts directly benefit them financially. Until someone has at least 50-100 posts, you don't know who you are dealing with.

2. See if a trusted, experienced investor in your area thinks about this topic since there are many ways to boost credit. Don't fall for people who join, then spend all of their time making a case as to why you should call to buy something.

3. Bring up the topic in trusted local circles. Meet with the tradeline provider or their rep in person, get three local referrals, and make sure the company is a BBB member at the least. If you deal with someone who you can easily identify and they have a local office, there's less of a chance of being scammed.

[wealthrx]

Dee are you saying that a program such as this does not work or what?
Have you heard of any complaints from consumers regarding buying lines?
I have yet to hear from anyone with a horror story or negative experience at all.
Thanks.

[markoarko]

Now Im surely not living in a bubble, and realize
1) Credit reporting agencies are aften inaccuarate and cost us money borrowing (however I believe there are tools in place to fix this legitimately)
2) I also realize that people who invest like us, utilizing cheap debt from the mortgage markets can save $1000s by having a 750 instead of a 600, or conversely having good credit instead of bad

BUT, I also think, as someone who now lends money to investors, I need to have some way of knowing if the guy is going to pay me back or not.

Knowing that the system is so easily manipulated, and I have been aware of this my whole carreer, gives me a considerable pause in lending to anyone, in my opinion, thereby hurting the system

A small story about myself, early in my carreer I borrowed a bunch of money and didnt pay it back. = Score when into the toilet, couldnt borrow to save my life. But because I needed capital, I found other ways, individuals, hard money guys, other real estate investors to partner with, etc. They new my c-scores sucked, but they also knew what I was doing could be profitable. They also looked over every deal with a finer tooth comb because I had this credit strike against me.

And I, my business and my lenders are better off for it now. I have now developed huge credit lines, significant trust, which I hold dear and a better business model because of it. And its because when I had problems, I believe I handled it in a legitimate, honest way. And with all of its problems and inefficiencys, i believe that our current credit system is at least legitimate and honest (HEY, no rotten tomatoes being thrown).

I further believe, paying money, to aquire a good history that is not your own, is not honest. As a lender (and note I am such a small player that I doubt I would ever even meet any of your), I wouldnt lend to you on the shear principle that "you" utilized this service as a way to make your real record/history/credit look better.

So as I step down from the soapbox, I just ask that each prospective buyer of this service think about the long term, and not just about saving a little money on the next deal.

[Rich_in_CT]

There are a million other ways to raise your score without paid/scam products.  

[stikkee]

Unfortunately there are no other ways to raise credit scores without having to pay for something.  Either you have to pay off the debt that  caused you to have a low credit score in the first place or you have to pay for a service that will help you fix the problem.  One way or another you have to pay someone.  We can always separate the people who are serious about increasing their credit from the those that would probably default again anyway.  Those who try to find a way around paying for their past mistakes are usually the same people who have a habit of just "not paying bills period."  There is no better way to secure a promise to pay, than to collect cash.  Most people who are willing to pay for a service like credit enhancement or credit repair, work hard to keep it up once it's fixed.  For example, most people who default on mortgages got 100% financing.  It's easier to let something go when you put none of your own money down.  But on the opposite side... when your own hard earned money was put into something, you usually work harder to maintain it.  We feel confident working with individuals who pay us for our service because we know the chances of them defaulting on future loans is much less than before.  We encourage people to educate themselves on how to fix their own credit and if they find a way to do it, and are able to save money...GREAT!  But the reality is, most people have gotten themselves into a rut and need some assistance.  That's where we come in, and we are very glad to help.

[Rich_in_CT]

There are plenty of ways to remove negatives from a report besides paying some scam service to use some sort of phony service to screw around with paperwork and create some sort of smokescreen.  For those interested in cleaning up their credit using other non-paid methods try http://creditboards.com - they have a ton of good info and don't charge a dime.

We can always separate the people who are serious about increasing their credit from the those that would probably default again anyway.  Those who try to find a way around paying for their past mistakes are usually the same people who have a habit of just "not paying bills period."

I wouldn't pay for any such service and I certainly pay every bill I have on time or early.  Besides if I were to pay for my past mistakes (if I had any) I'd rather pay the creditor (I borrowed money from them in the first place) rather than some 3rd party.  Its only right to pay back your obligations right?  How does someone that is willing to take a quick out prove to anyone that they will pay their debts in the future, after all rather than pay their creditors they are hiding behind ghost accounts to make their score go up.

[wealthrx]

WoW..

Alot of general statements/accusations being made, but no real evidence
that the services offered are a sham (to consumers). I think everyone
agrees that it just may work (for the consumer).

Anyone that has tried these services feel free to share your experience..

[thailanddave]

As a mortgage banker, I work on the other side of the desk. Let me venture a guess as to how this works. Any company can report to the credit bureau for a fee. I think it's between $2-$10 per month per person. Of course there are probably reduced fees for big companies like Visa/Mastercard. The bureau updates their records usually once a month. We call it running the tape, because they used to be all on tape drives. The creditor uploads their files with the latest info and that info is updated on the master computer, so when someone requests credit on Social Security #xxx-xx-xxxx, the computer spits out the most recent updates. This is why you will see some creditors with an X in the most recent column. this means the the creditor has not reported for those months.

An algorithm devised by Fair Issac company is run. The 3 bureaus all use the Fair Issac algorithm but have tuned it different. Its a big secret on how they actually have it tuned.

Why this probably works - unless somebody challenges the accounts put on the credit bureau computers, it will be accepted as truth.

The "tapes" are only run once a month, which is why it normally takes 30-90 days to get something removed from your bureau. You have to dispute it with the creditor (30 days or more) and then wait until all 3 bureaus run their tapes to get the newly updated info from the creditor removing the blemish.

This is also why credit repair bureaus don't work too well. The repair bureaus took advantage of a loop hole in the fair credit reporting act. According to the law, if you dispute something on your record and they can't resolve it in 30 days, they have to remove it until it was resolved. In the past, there were only a few people in the resolution office, so repair agencies would inundate them with error requests until finally, something slipped past the 30 day mark. That doesn't work anymore since they have started labelling the disputes on the date they were first submitted. They don't remove it, they label it as under dispute. The creditor has a period of time to respond to the bureau (I think 30-60 days). Since it is in the best interest of the creditor to update their files and respond to disputes, anything a repair company removes through the loop hole will be back on the bureau in about 90 days.

Most mortgage loan officers have access to "Rapid Rescore". If you have a legitimate error on your report and have documentation from the creditor, I can get it corrected in 48 hours. This does not always mean an increase in your score, because it looks like an additional "access" to your records. Part of the credit scoring system analyzes the number of "accesses". I have actually removed items from peoples bureau and had their scores go down.

Paying off a collection before you buy something will usually cause the score to go down temporarily, as it causes additional accesses. The collection will still show up on the bureau report but show PAID IN FULL. This makes a difference to the underwriter of your loan but not your credit score. Usually all collections must be paid before closing so they don't slip a lien in before your mortgage gets recorded which would put your banker in 2nd position after the lien. So paying off collections can often be a condition of closing but in credit score driven lending, it makes sense to pay them at closing, not before to get an increase in your score (which almost never happens).

Finally, the adding of seasoned accounts is probably working for the time being. It is a scam since they are not your accounts. The credit bureaus are not stupid. They will close this loophole when they discover it since their business is based on accurate reporting.

When we do a mortgage, we ask for at least 3 active credit lines. If the lines havent been updated, we will ask for an update from the bureau before we can count those accounts.

What Im saying is if you need it now, use it while its available. But don't expect those items to be there in the future. The companies setting up your fake history won't continue to report every month, its too expensive. When we call to get an update, there will be no update and you won't be able to count that line. Its a one-time short-term fix at best.  

[stikkee]

I am not disputing the fact that people should pay their bills.  People who borrow money or receive a service have a responsibility to repay their creditors and/or service providers.  That is a fact.  But paying your old creditors does not have a big enough impact on your credit score.  Sometimes it has no effect at all.  For example, even after someone  pays off their old collection accounts, creditors have the right to report that information for 7 years.  Even after it is paid, they still list it as a derogatory account.   That person will most likely continue to be denied credit because that negative payment history has such a bad reflection on the persons FICO, almost no one will give them a loan.  If they can find a way to increase their score for free...great for them.  I hope they share how they were able to do that with the rest of the world.  But in reality, people will always need loans and good credit scores to do almost everything in this country.  If we can help give people a second chance, I don't see anything that is wrong with that.  The reason most people who destroy their credit is due to a lack of financial knowledge and education.  Many people don't even know how credit cards work and how they should utilize them.  Like I said before, we educate people on how to manage their credit and how to make better financial decisions.  Of course there will be people who take advantage of this program, as there will be people who never pay their taxes and people who drive without a insurance.  Some people always try to get around doing what is right.   But there are a bigger number of people who either had a bad time in their life and fell behind or simply need a break because every day life has broken them down.  The only people who oppose these types of programs are people who...

A. Never got a break, and are mad that other people are getting one
B. Have excellent credit and feel that this program is unfair
C. Creditors

My favorite group of people to help are the Katrina victims.  Many of them have gotten screwed by the government and creditors who refused to extend them time to get their lives back together.  We have helped many of them increase their credit scores and they have been able to get loans and mortgages.  Most people are honest and genuine of getting a small piece of the American Dream.

[stikkee]

Thailandave.... Before you misinform people about how the credit bureaus work, you should do your homework.  Your implying that seasoned tradelines are a scam and it will not work eventually.  Please back up your statements with proof before you make such comments.  Adding someone as an authorized user is not anywhere close to being a scam.  If it is a scam, why do credit card companies allow account holders to add people as authorized users?  And better yet, why do some of these credit card companies allow as many as 99 authorized users to be added to a single account? And even more so...why do they report them to the credit bureaus?  
Do you truly want to know why?  It is simply because of these important laws that you may or may not know about.  

#1. The FCRA  (Fair credit reporting act)

      &

#2.  The ECOA (Equal Credit opportunity act)

which are both monitored by the Federal Trade Commission.  

If you go to the FTC's website and click on laws and facts for consumers, you will see that creditors have to report authorized users to the credit bureaus.  Some credit card companies do it automatically,  and for those that do not do it automatically .....if they receive a request in writing from the account holder, they have no choice.  The FTC acknowledges that every person has the right to establish a credit history and yes that includes authorized users.  Authorized user accounts are part of the account holders account file.  An account holder can have all aspects of their account reported...once again, that includes an authorized user.  

Lastly, the information reported on the authorized users credit is not "FAKE HISTORY" as you implied earlier.  It is real history for that particular credit card, which that person happens to be an authorized user.  As long as credit card companies allow authorized users, this law won't change.  

Rich men..have rich wives and rich children.  The credit card companies know that the Donald Trump's of the world may not go shopping every weekend, but they know that his wife and children may.  But yet..who is responsible for paying the debt....can you guess?  Not his wife, but Donald.  I doubt that we will ever see the day that creditors stop allowing authorized users.  They want more people to be authorized users because the credit companies love for people run up their credit.  It's just more money for them in interest.  But we have found a way for this same rule for the rich, to help other people get a chance at becoming rich....Or just a little better off!  

[thailanddave]

ROFLMAO.
I have been in the mortgage business since 1988. You added accounts that weren't yours to your credit bureau and are now an expert.

If you add accounts that aren't yours to your credit report it is 1. illegal 2. a scam.

I didn't say it wouldn't work and detailed exactly how your company does it. It wont last because your company will not keep updating the tapes with that show accounts that arent legitimate. 1. they can't afford to 2. they got their $1000 and they are down the road.

It will get stopped but it may take a while. Why? Because the bureau don't have the resources to re-check every company who is reporting to the credit bureau. More likely they will black list the company who got approved to update the credit bureau lists. If your company is smart and I have no doubt they are, they have applied and been approved for several, maybe hundreds of accounts that are allowed to update the bureaus records. So when they get black listed on one account, they will simply let if fall by the wayside and use the next account.

You can't put inaccurrate information on somebody's credit bureau for long and hope to get away with it forever. (I suppose next you will tell me its legitimate info) It's illegal and although you as a representative are not likely to get caught, your company will.

Anyone who is using such practices is committing fraud. If they ever go bad on their loans and probably will because their low credit scores indicate  they don't pay their bills, they can be brought up for prosecution. Will it happen? Maybe, maybe not. The amount of loan fraud in the last few years is rampant and loan officers are going to jail every day for it. Something that really hasn't happened before.

If the loan company ever prosecutes a borrower and finds a check to a company that put false records on their credit report... well you figure it out.

Have a nice day.

[stikkee]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you really have limited knowledge on how this program works.  Once again, your information is inaccurate.  This is not a scam...and it is not illegal.  

For the last time.... WE ARE NOT THE ONES WHO REPORT THE ACCOUNT INFORMATION TO THE CREDIT BUREAUS.  THE CREDIT CARD COMPANIES DO ALL THE REPORTING, AND THE CREDIT BUREAUS DISPLAY WHAT THE CREDITORS REPORTED TO THEM.

I do not manipulate credit reports in any way.  The information on our  clients credit reports are 100% accurate in the fact that they are authorized users on the accounts.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Your trying very hard to make this program into something it's not.

And for your information, before I got involved with ASR Solutions,  I was a sub-prime mortgage underwriter.  I would think that someone who claims to be in the mortgage industry since 1988 would know a little more than you do about how this whole credit system works.  But then again, that's why I no longer underwrite because I could not deal with incompetent loan officers who always think they know everything.  

[thailanddave]

So if I am an authorized user on the account I can go and charge stuff on these other peoples accounts? Now that sounds like a deal!

[wealthrx]

OK..Ok..Ok. Do we need to seperate you two ?